Does mankind deserve to be here??

[Kwai]

Only Mods explain/enforce the rules. Basically, the argument has come to A) Humankinds can think therefore are worthy and B) Humankinds think and cause damage to the environment therefore are not worthy.
This debate can go both ways. Its hard to say which is right and which is wrong at the moment because its weighing the pros against the cons and they are both rather vague...

[DeathBug]

How do you know that people who care are in the minority? Seriously, you're just assuming they are. I happen to agree, but you know what? 49% is still a minority, but it's still an awful lot.

Enough people care so that the problem will be solved. As for the ignorant masses, social progression will eventually weed them out. Like I said, any group that makes their environment uninhabitable is doomed, right?

[juna]

Dark DeatH; Getting super worked up and angst isn't solving anything either, is it?
Shrug; as I see it even if I grant you the 1000 years that you are offering as a time limit of mankind; the technology age itself has grown to what it is now during the span of a mere, I'll even say 30 years, and that's being generous. It's pretty fresh to think about what we can accomplish in 1000 years. We can go as far as our imagination and determination drive us.
I can see you are passionate in your views and that is commendable - try to see the broader picture though; we could get hit by a massive meteor and be gone in 100 years..who knows..all we can do is work :: together :: to fix the world that we live in now, try to see the good in things; you'll live longer ^_~

[Kwai]

[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by DeathBug [/i]
[B]As for the ignorant masses, social progression will eventually weed them out. Like I said, any group that makes their environment uninhabitable is doomed, right? [/B][/QUOTE]

That statement of yours is making an assumption that those who care about the environment live together in a group... not so.... environmentalists are spread out throughout the planet... You can't bring in the survival of the fittest in this scenario.

Edit: Meh, I'm out for the night. I'll come back tomorrow.

[DarK DeatH]

Metatron: What you said about the mods being the only ones to explain rules you is almost like saying that only those who have the power have the right to make it get to use... And that would sorta say you only follow what the one with power says... Am I wrong? Like, if one who is less, or "smaller" than you tells you you are wrong, you won't listen to that one and just turn your back to whatever the right way would be...

DeathBug: Yeah, 49% is a lot, but it still is the minority right? Off this whole world, 1% would already be thousands of people... Now imagine, since it probably isn't all that the pecentage of how many people are the ones on the "right" side, how many millions of people polute the world...

[DeathBug]

Metatron: Actually, as society progresses, people are more likely to group with others with similar goals or beliefs. Public schools are a good example. In first grade, everyone's organized together all willy-nilly, with no care given to each child's level of intelligence or dedication. However, by high school, you've got Honors, AP classes, remedial classes, the whole deal. As people progress, the end up with more people one similar wavelengths.

DarK: Pollution is done through ignorance or apathy; obviously, no one wants to damage the environment. Fortunatly, ignorance and apathy are the easiest things in the world to eliminate.

It may take a while, but I remain confident we can turn this situation around. Human beings are historically some of the most stubborn creatures on the planet. We'll perservere or die trying.

[James]

[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by DarK DeatH [/i]
[B]OK, if you wanna tell me that humans do good to the environment, you can keep your words to yourself then, because that's not smart...
I mean, animals kill other species, but they don't do enough to bring extinction to other species, do they? No. Also, the ozone layer hole is something made by US... Like stated by someone here already, the polution started, let's say, half century ago right? So, why DID it start at all? If humans were evolving, why would that happen? Wouldn't that be "walking backwards" instead of forward? [/B][/QUOTE]

[color=#808080]Well, this comment shows me that you don't seem to understand the whole idea of why pollution even exists.

Before the industrial revolution, we were polluting but not to a great extent. The industrial revolution is largely what triggered big industry (well, it's entirely the cause of big industry I guess). But of course, at that time, our knowledge of modern technology was limited. We were physically [i]unable[/i] to produce technology that was as clean as it is today.

So that is also a process of evolution. We were never in a position to just snap our fingers and make environmentally friendly technology. Technology developed over many decades during the last century and now we're in a far better position than we've been over the last couple of decades.

You can't dismiss all mankind by saying that we pollute the world and therefore we don't deserve to exist, period. That's just wrong - it's factually wrong.

As I said before, I could sit here and list the thousands upon thousands of initiatives that are in place right now, designed to protect the environment and encourage sustainable development. All of those programs, without exception, are part of our positive contributions to the planet at large.

I'm not trying to say that man has a totally positive impact - mankind [i]is[/i] largely responsible for harming nature in various ways. But to dismiss all mankind and say that we don't deserve to exist is a bit extreme, to put it mildly.[/color]

[Mitch]

[size=1][color=gray] [font=century gothic] In my opinion, not a single thing deserves anything. You don't deserve things, but you have them.

It's the same thing with humanity. It's here because it is. Not because it deserves it or not because it needs to be here.

So whether there is a deserving or not, it doesn't work in my mind. We're here because of evolution, or God, or whatever your beliefs to that matter are. We're here because we are.

This planet is not going to last forever. I don't even think the universe itself will last forever. Nothing needs to deserve something to live. Nothing needs a purpose to be here. It's just here because it is.

If we destroy this planet we destroy it. It's something that's going to happen eventually anyways, as much as I hate to say it. Someday we won't all be here anymore, mankind won't be here anymore. How far, I don't know. But it's as simple as taking the instinct for survival and using it.

But no, there is no deserving. There is only being. It's the survival of the fittest, the most adaptable and the most survivable. There's no deserving, there's only having. And it seems we are dominating this planet. Not because we deserve it, but because we have the advantage over all and most of the animals here on this earth.[/size][/font][/color]

[DarK DeatH]

You have a point there Mitch... "What is, is, and what will be, will be"? Yeah, maybe... But, if we are the "fittest", so why not to make the place where we live a better place? Wouldn't it be better to everyone? I mean, who wouldn't like to live on a clean and unpolluted Earth? I would... And I believe everyone else would... Yeah, it's not a matter of deserving or not... Like I said before, I am no one to judge wether we do deserve or not, but if everyone did their part, it would be best to everyone...

[James]

[color=#808080]You're right, Mitch. You're exactly right.

The only reason this discussion has even continued, in my view, is because we're now talking about issues that are kind of moving away from the core question.

But fundamentally, I think the question is really pointless. Whether or not we deserve to be here is irrelevant, because none of us (or anyone) can make that determination. We're here because we're here, as Mitch points out.[/color]

[Mitch]

[size=1][font=century gothic][color=gray] Well, that's pretty impossible.

When you give something more to something else to get something different, you will and shall lose something in the process. It's as simple as that. Just think about it awhile, you'll come to your own conclusion from that.[/size][/font][/color]

[Guest cloricus]

I feel I need to expand on this for general information since no one seems to know the correct facts associated. (Or no ones flamed him about it yet?)

Quote | DarK DeatH
I mean, animals kill other species, but they don't do enough to bring extinction to other species, do they? No. Also, the ozone layer hole is something made by US... Like stated by someone here already, the pollution started, let's say, half century ago right? So, why DID it start at all? If humans were evolving, why would that happen? Wouldn't that be "walking backwards" instead of forward?
-

I must say that you are 100% wrong in this statement, and it's just going onto the piles of misquoted and misunderstood "facts" that you have already put up.
I can tell you that Humans are in no way at all the first species to wipe out another. It happens quiet a lot. (I found out to my surprise.) In the ratio of animals driven to extinction by other animals; Humans only account for a very small portion, and total extinctions caused by us directly are less than one hundred. (As far as I know, and that is since records were kept.)
As for the Ozone layer. I did this in biology today (hehe) and I can tell you that it was only in the summer of 1984 that any damage was found, the world moved quickly to act in cooperation (although not to a completely satisfactory level because CFC?s are still around and so other the other chemicals that caurse the damage.) to fix the problem. And it seems to be working. But as for Humans being the only animals to damage it you are wrong, there are many other animals (and volcanos) that do a great deal of damage. One other thing, it's not a hole as such, just a thinning of the layer to 200DU instead of 500DU. (I never found out what DU meant? Density Unit?)
As for ?starting all of this pollution?, you say it?s not part of our survival? So you?re telling me that the hospital you visit when you are sick inst helping you stays alive. Or that the warm cloths made by factories don?t keep your from being sick in winter. These things all pollute. Of course it?s helping our species; it?s for filling the basic needs and impulses of our instincts. To survive, these things help us to survive!

So next time you go bagging your own species have a think about what your saying, there are plenty of good arguments you could make here yet you are falling back to ?the old favourites?...

(I think these arguments I?ve put up should be correct. But as we have learnt, run of the mill library books and year 11 bio books can have inaccuracies. *Glares at Deus*)
-eps

[Baron Samedi]

i am shocked by the number of replies to this!!!:eek: i never expected to get so many!!! my personal views on the manner are- as a species, humans like any other deerve the right to live. as a populace humans maybe shouldnt be here"for the good of all" kind of thing. sure i agree with sum of your points about humans improving their act. but people are still logging rainforests. tasmanian oldgrowth forests are being logged as we speak(type...) on some island(cant...remember...name...) they are open-cut mining- ON THE SHORELINE!!! all this gunk and rubbish is choking up the corals. they know all about this AND ARE STILL CONTINUING!!! humans greed for materials seems to more often than not to overall their common sense.:butthead: will we never learn???? we are improving, but in the background not much stuff has changed. i have named only a very few circumstances here but there are many more. i think it is great that we are doing stuff to improve (lessen) our damage to the environment. but quite a bit of stuff hasnt changed, and it needs to. humans are greedy. we would be doing everything a favour(not everything but a majority of animals and the earth itself) a favour if we dropped off the perch... that is my view on the matter