Baron Samedi Posted May 27, 2003 Share Posted May 27, 2003 i know that this may be quite a common subject and it basically depends on peoples beliefs, but how can some of the stuff in the bible be true. according to the bible god made humans. and he made the animals tigers lions elephants etc. this was plausible while people did not know about dinosaurs and stuff, but we know and the bible doesnt mention them. so is the bible untrue??? how different would the world be without "God"?? i know quite a lot of kids whose parents are god-fearing peple while the kids dont believe. eventually christianity wil;l probably run out as, to me it doesnt seem to have much of a leg to stand on. people want to believe that someone is there looking out for them. i must admit it is a nice thought. but a lot of evidence says that it is untrue. i know that many will be replying to this saying "your a liar, the bible is right" kind of thing, being all fired up with religious zeal. however i think we must see some of the inevietable realities here. i am not a troublemaker i just wish to point out my views. what do you think on the matter?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest cloricus Posted May 27, 2003 Share Posted May 27, 2003 I ask this, the bible has two stories of creation. Which one are you talking about? I then refer you to [url=http://www.update.uu.se/~fbendz/nogod/no_god.htm]this document[/url] which proves that god and Christians are wrong. Next to [url=http://godandscience.org/apologetics/atheismintro.html]this document[/url] which proves that god is real and that atheists are just screwed in the head. (I'm only sending you to these documents because they are good reads and very factual. They might make this debate more civilised than it usually is.) -eps Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baron Samedi Posted May 27, 2003 Author Share Posted May 27, 2003 thankyou. i dont want this to descend into a mishmash of people saying stuff like "this is wrong you are all wrong" or "god isnt real" blah blah blah- civilisation is a good thing let us try and keep it. i would appreciate it if you would read these two documents before posting, unlessyou know quite a bit about it already... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Crimson Spider Posted May 27, 2003 Share Posted May 27, 2003 When I first saw eveolution, I thought that there were so many loop holes it is pathetic. As in there were no transitional species. Every one seemed to stay the same. Then there were animals like the Woodpecker that completely blows it out of the water. Then they change the theory and say that it happened quickly. And yet it seems like thier is no real changes occuring in the past 500 years or so. That and all the studies done except for one says that the earth is really young and can't be more than 20,000 years old. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baron Samedi Posted May 27, 2003 Author Share Posted May 27, 2003 Yes but i personally think evolution is likely and real, but that is kind of different to saying that there are no such thing as dinosaurs- actually looking back at that it doesnt make sense- ok sure evolution has loopholes but it is obvious that we didnt just appear- isnt it??? i mean the Bible says alkl this stuff about god creating stuff instantaneously- however where were dinosaurs mentioned- did i miss that Chapter- i mean no rudeness and their is definite debate for both points, the bible being true or false- it depends on your outlook, but there is no evidence in the bible of dinosaurs, yet they definitely exist- maybe it is a cosmic joke anmd god put them there, i dont know- but if God created everything, then he created the universe and we never found out about other planets until only a few hundred years ago-or thousand im not sure- why would "He" invest so much time in one place??? according to the bible he made the earth. plausible while we were the only living things and the sun just went across the sky, but now it is laughable- i mean no offense to Christians but it is. these are just my views, and everyone is entitled to it and their own views. however discussion is what we are after so air your views in a nice, non damaging, environmentally friendly way ;) baron Samedi a.k.a Death Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheShinje Posted May 27, 2003 Share Posted May 27, 2003 [size=1] I believe there is [b]adaptation[/b] which, by the way, is [i]not[/i] evolution. Adaptation is the Gift of God for a species to be able to adapt to it's surroundings. I have provided examples of why I believe in the Christian god, I believe so that i decided in the last week to be baptized. I have had more spritual gifts and anomalies that it is really hard to refute the existence of God, I feel his presence grace and mercy every day. If that wasn't enough for me, God showed me that the scriptures and holy writings pretaining to his second coming were coming true,a nd that all prophecies about thew first coming were fulfilled, all 300 or so, [i]chronologically[/i] You see, if you believe in the onpioptent intellegent and almighty God of the christian Bible, then the a confusing quote which is a supposed contradiction "if God is so powerful, can he create a rock to heavy to lift" beocmes explainable, when you consider that God is three in one, Father, Son and Holy Spirit. Some christians, including me, can't comprehend the trinity, so don't ask me, it's complicated, anyhow... 1) God(the father, creates a stone too heavy for Jesus 9the Son) to lift, but God and the Holy Spirit can lift it, hence, God can lift a stone too heavy for him to lift. 2) God is outside of time and physical constraints, and he is everywhere and everything, suppose he can explain that in a way our feeble 'restricted minds' cannot comprehend, no? EDIT: Baron, there is no mention of Dinosaurs in the Bible, uet it does mention beasts and Leviathans, great Sea Monsters and Dragons, prehaps a dragon is what we now call a Dinosaur? Carbon dating is flawed, i.e a corpse nearer a Volcano has more carbon, and thus, due to our dating process is a few billion years old, perhaps they actually fit into biblical timelines, no? ture the bible never mentions Dinosaurs specifically, but neither does it mention thousand of others either, it simply states God created all things, therefor the I assue that he created the Dinosaur as well.[/size] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kitsune_Girl Posted May 27, 2003 Share Posted May 27, 2003 I've found myself struggling with this issue as well. I was a Christian, but now I'm not so sure. I always prayed that my parents wouldn't get divorced, and theydid. I prayed that both my gradparents wouldn't die, and they did. Just so manny things have happened that make me say: "Is there really a god?" --Kitsune_Girl Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest cloricus Posted May 27, 2003 Share Posted May 27, 2003 Baron the dinosaurs are just an example of things that have not been stated in the bible, the simple point is that if "a god" was to have every species written down it would take a book so big that it would just be stupid. So I think that point is destroyed by logic. As for holes in the evolution theory, I don't think it is fair to criticize it because it has only been around for a short time and all the facts have not been found. (And may not be found for awhile.) Also people who say that "it keeps changing", well of course it does; if you have a theory and you find something to be flawed you correct your error. Just as the church did when it was conclusively proved that it was in fact the earth that orbited the sun, not the other way around. Also I would like to know which creation story from the bible that the people who do believe in it subscribe too? EDITED: Quote | Shinji Ikari Carbon dating is flawed, i.e a corpse nearer a Volcano has more carbon, and thus, due to our dating process is a few billion years old, perhaps they actually fit into biblical timelines, no? - The rocks carbon dated to 3.9billion years were in an artic region, and had been for a good while. I would like to say that you are wrong but the simple fact is that you can't prove that carbon dating is flawed just as much as I can't prove it is not. Though the moon does shed light on this, and the chances of it fitting into biblical time frame is just ludicrous. But not impossible... (I think anyone that thinks its possible is insane, but since I cant prove otherwise.) Also "biblical timeline" is flawed, the process of originally calculating it was a good way but had a lot of room for errors. A lot of people believe that it is out by at least six years, other say fifty to one hundred. And thats only back to when jesus was (meant to have been) born -eps Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James Posted May 27, 2003 Share Posted May 27, 2003 [color=#808080]Basically, I think my response here is going to be pretty predictable, in the sense that we have had this very thread repeated on numerous occasions. The biggest problem facing threads such as this is that [i]very[/i] few people are greatly informed about the scientific/biological information surrounding evolution as well as the full account of creation from the bible. Thus, these discussions tend to become a circular back-and-forth. I am not saying that debates/discussions of this nature aren't allowed, but I'd like to have some kind of reasonable space between each resurgence. The most recent thread on evolution may not be in this first page, but I assure you that you'll find several by doing a search. And by doing a search, you'll be able to find quite a great breadth and depth of opinion and speculation on the subject. I apologize if anybody disagrees with my decision, but there are cases where I feel it's necessary to keep things more closely monitored. [/color] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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