Anime the butcher of all anime once again shows its face; down with 4kids!

[originalimp]

4kids has picked up to new animes to ruin shaman king (as read in shonen jump) and sonic x ( yes a sonic the hedgehog anime)[QUOTE]thats really cheesed up dude (copy this sayiing pay me 20 dollars)[/QUOTE] :naughty: :devil: : must kill for kids help me kill 4kids!

[Ayokano]

WTH is this thread for?Really this maybe your frist day and your going to get banned.Yes they dub these shows,but they don't ruin them.If you know japaness and have seen them,maybe they do.

[weatherlight]

look, maybe some companies dub better than others, but they don't deserve to be despised if they're not so good. If it weren't for 4kids, we probably wouldn't have yu gi oh or pokemon, since bandai and the other companies don't have unlimited capacities. True, they aren't the best anime, but they attract more people to anime and help to keep the community alive. I myself got into anime because of pokemon. 4kids doesn't deserve to be bashed.

[Turkey]

What exactly will they butcher in Sonic X? A swear word?
"Oh God no! I didn't hear a swear word! I'm gonna die!"

[Kaola Su]

Now I have to think of it this way, IF I had kids I would not want them to see that kinda stuff either, so I don't think you should bash them. Just don't watch anime that is dubbed by them.

Kaola

[Arkadyz]

[color=red][font=times new roman]Well I dont mind alittle editing of curse words...But What I cant stand is when they completely screw with a series and cut&paste it back together as something it isnt(Escaflowne/Cardcaptor) Or remove several eps for "content" reasons or elminate relationships (SailorMoon)

These shows were great and popular in japan for a reason...I wish american companies would quit mucking them up...They seem to screw with kids shows more then other series...Which I cant understand, japanese children watch this stuff all the time undedited...Parents over here are just too overprotective... :cross: [/font][/color]

[Queen Asuka]

[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by Arkadyz [/i]
[B][color=red][font=times new roman]japanese children watch this stuff all the time undedited...Parents over here are just too overprotective... :cross: [/font][/color] [/B][/QUOTE]

[color=hotpink][size=1]And the Japanese have very low morals and values. I am GLAD that my parents were overprotective of me. It's not necessarily sheltering, it's more like a concern for how you turn out. This world is already too corrupt. I know children who are pregnant in middle school. Do the children REALLY need to be watching stuff like that? NO! When you're a child is when you are the most impressionable. I know that when I was a kid, I wanted more than anything to be a Power Ranger.

As for the company, hey YuGiOh is CRAP and Pokemon went to crap. But at least it's fun stuff for the kids.[/color][/size]

[James]

[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by Queen Asuka [/i]
[B][color=hotpink][size=1]And the Japanese have very low morals and values. I am GLAD that my parents were overprotective of me. It's not necessarily sheltering, it's more like a concern for how you turn out. This world is already too corrupt. I know children who are pregnant in middle school. Do the children REALLY need to be watching stuff like that? NO! When you're a child is when you are the most impressionable. I know that when I was a kid, I wanted more than anything to be a Power Ranger.

[/color][/size] [/B][/QUOTE]

[color=#335062]The Japanese have very low morals and values? In relative terms and in your eyes, perhaps. But it [i]is[/i] a relative issue, let's remember that.

Secondly, I don't know how you can draw a correlation between these animes (and what we're really talking about is mild swearing most of the time) and corruption in society.

My parents were never overly protective of me when it came to the media. In fact, I can't remember them ever not letting me see movies due to violence or coarse language.

And yet, here I am. Violence horrifies me (as it should any decent human being) and you'll never find me behaving in anything but a professional manner at school or work. Even with friends, I don't sit there swearing my head off (as most of my friends know).

My point is, I'm the example that this stuff doesn't corrupt your brain forever. If you have parents who can explain [i]why[/i] certain things are bad (ie: swearing) and if they are englightened enough to allow your mind to expand...I don't see a problem.

But anyway, regarding subbing...I'm starting to feel less sympathetic to the argument that "if so-and-so wasn't bringing it to us, nobody would". This argument implies that people should settle for low quality entertainment because it's all they're getting.

Ultimately, bad subbing is bad subbing. I mean, I personally feel that there is no excuse for it. Of course, it's probably better to get something butchered than nothing at all...or at least, that's how a lot of people seem to see it. And for the most part, kids are the ones watching these shows -- and most of them couldn't care less, I guarantee you.

But having said that, I really think it's fair to complain about these companies who are getting it wrong. I mean, obviously the constant whining can be annoying. But I think the complaints are really legitimate. [/color]

[Queen Asuka]

[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by James [/i]
[B]My point is, I'm the example that this stuff doesn't corrupt your brain forever. If you have parents who can explain [i]why[/i] certain things are bad (ie: swearing) and if they are englightened enough to allow your mind to expand...I don't see a problem.[/B][/QUOTE]

[color=hotpink][size=1]That's the thing though...alot of parent's don't tend to bother. Maybe it's just worse here in America where culture has us to believe it's a free country and we can do whatever we want to. And it makes me sad. That's why I think that kids are so easily impressionable at such a young age.

The companies HAVE to edit that stuff out or parents would start such a riot that they wouldn't even be able to show the stuff on television.

About lower morals and values, I could go into it with my opinion, but I don't want to offend anyone around here.[/color][/size]

[James]

[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by Queen Asuka [/i]
[B][color=hotpink][size=1]
The companies HAVE to edit that stuff out or parents would start such a riot that they wouldn't even be able to show the stuff on television.

About lower morals and values, I could go into it with my opinion, but I don't want to offend anyone around here.[/color][/size] [/B][/QUOTE]

[color=#335062]The first point is well taken. And my feeling is that parents are generally stupid. So I guess that deals with that. lol

Hehe, but seriously...parents who complain about it are either ridiculously conservative or they're simply too lazy to moderate what their kids watch. Slack parents bother me.

And as for the second thing...well, as I said before, morals and values are an entirely subjective thing. I certainly can't imagine Japanese children being allowed to watch horribly grotesque violence and sex -- their parents are just as concerned about such things as western parents. Even when I've read conversations with Japanese game directors, they talk about this issue a lot...and how it relates to their own kids. So, I would not want to say that Japanese parents in particular have a [i]lower[/i] set of morals and values. Preferably, I'd say that their [i]perception[/i] is just different. If Japanese parents are more englightened with this sort of thing (and I don't know if they are), then maybe that's a good thing. Maybe it shows a greater appreciation for the artistry that is anime.

But then again, it's like with comics and video games. A lot of parents in western countries are ignorant about them and so, they fear their kids using 'em. But in some countries (ie: Japan), where such mediums are more acceptable, maybe parents are more willing to be leniant. I don't know, I'm just throwing out random thoughts there.[/color]

[Queen Asuka]

[color=hotpink][size=1]Perhaps it isn't that the morals or lower, just that they are DIFFERENT. And that I don't agree with alot of things that people do in Japan. It's a totally different culture. I'm not bashing it, I'm just glad I am the person that I am, if that makes any sense.[/color][/size]

[TheDarkOtaku]

Well here's what I have to say (if it matter's at this point in the thread... :confused: ), 4Kids is not evil. I have said things such as that many times before, but I've come to the conlcusion that you just have to like anime they way you do and have fun with it. Trust me, I love Shaman King myself, and I don't want to see it on the FoxBox, so I know what your going through and what your saying. Like others said though, try to watch it subbed. That's basically the only thing any of us can do (and read Shounen Jump of course ;) ). And as for James and Queen Asuka's debate, I hope you don't mind if I add my comment.
I was just going to say that I agree with James in the aspect that Japanese parents care just as much for their kids as others. Yet I also agree with Queen Asuka on the fact that parents here should be monitoring their children a lot more. Both of you have some very interesting and good points.

[eleanor]

[size=1]I sort of admire Japanese students. I'm learning Geometry from my Japanese tutor so I'll bee ready for the school year, and she says,
"Oh yeah, fourth graders in Japan know how to do this stuff."
O_O Even my mom agreed. I think I died right there.

Of course, Queen Asuka, every culture is DIFFERENT from others all the time. Maybe Japanese kids are mature enough or something. ::mutters about little kids knowing geometry:: But I also think it's necessary that they dub anime shows, because if they don't, bored mommies will complain until they cancel it or dub it anyway. Then again, I wasn't corrupted by watching unedited anime either. I think the topics they discess in anime sort make you more open-minded sometimes. But, I don't think many teens watch WBkids or FOXKids or whatever, and little kids don't really care. ...Do they? O_o

It would be much better if they didn't edit them, but nobody can stop them. If you're a big anime fan, then you'll be driven to buy the unedited stuff. I mean...I was. And the people who buy lots of anime DVDs and whatnot aren't usually the little kids who watch KidsWB.

P.S.- Yes, they really did currupt Yugioh. The original series that was released was aimed for older audiences and had very mature themes. They couldn't even release the real first season since they couldn't edit it enough so that it would be appropriate.[/size]

[Queen Asuka]

[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by maladjusted [/i]
[B][size=1]Of course, Queen Asuka, every culture is DIFFERENT from others all the time. Maybe Japanese kids are mature enough or something. ::mutters about little kids knowing geometry:: But I also think it's necessary that they dub anime shows, because if they don't, bored mommies will complain until they cancel it or dub it anyway. Then again, I wasn't corrupted by watching unedited anime either. I think the topics they discess in anime sort make you more open-minded sometimes. But, I don't think many teens watch WBkids or FOXKids or whatever, and little kids don't really care. ...Do they? O_o [/size][/b][/quote]

[color=hotpink][size=1]I know that it is a different culture and that they do things VERY differently there, but my point is, they get into alot of mature themes. Alot of things that are very taboo in American culture are very accepted there. And so therefore, from that point of view, they have [i]different[/i] types of morals and values than what the Americans typically have.

And I don't see what bored mothers has to do with dubbing anime at all, so I hope you elaborate on that point a bit more.

And I'm not addressing the fact that teens watch what is appropriate for them to watch, I'm talking about the CHILDREN! The little 4 year old who watches Cartoon Network because it's cartoons and watches things that is way above it's head. Hey, when I was 7, I saw Akira on TV. Freaked me out more than anything. But with the way children are today, they'll probably want MORE!

I think I'm just ranting because I truly think society is digressing and that children nowadays are growing up without knowing the difference between right and wrong. It truly bothers me....*sighs*[/color][/size]

[quote][b][size=1]It would be much better if they didn't edit them, but nobody can stop them. If you're a big anime fan, then you'll be driven to buy the unedited stuff. I mean...I was. And the people who buy lots of anime DVDs and whatnot aren't usually the little kids who watch KidsWB.[/size] [/B][/QUOTE]

[color=hotpink][size=1]Obviously the little kids aren't the ones out buying anime: they don't have that sort of money. And when they do I'm sure toys and games come into mind before an anime movie would. Anyone who likes anime will want to real deal. And that's fine. Even I hate to see things butchered up and I'm frightened to watch things dubbed. But what can you do?[/color][/size]

[Shinmaru]

Here's how I feel on the whole edited/unedited issue: Just because something's uncensored doesn't mean it's good.

For example, take Final Fantasy 7. I think that they went a little overboard with the cursing there. I know that they were trying to present a mature world, and that the game was meant for older people, but the way that they were just throwing them out got a little ridiculous.

So, I think that editing can be good if it's used responsibly. If they just edit something and water it down, then I can see why people would be upset. But if something is unedited, then I would hope that what they have in there is used to further the story, make it seem more real, etc. and not just there to be in there.

By the way, I'm not bashing FF7, because it's probably my favorite Final Fantasy.

Wait, why am I talking about a game in an anime thread? Oh well, it furthers the point, I guess.

[eleanor]

[size=1]Children today [i]are[/i] growing up without knowing the difference between right and wrong. The bored mommies thing was put in there for a little humor, I wasn't exactly trying to insult anyone.

About the little children watching CN. I don't think there is anything bad on Toonami, so kids can't exactly get scared. You're right about the Akira thing though. I was 11 when I watched it and the toy scene freaked me out.[/size]

[Kwai]

[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by Queen Asuka [/i]
[B][color=hotpink][size=1]And the Japanese have very low morals and values. [/color][/size] [/B][/QUOTE]

Heh, I should take that as offensive, but I won't. As many others have stated before, we are just different. Though what is taboo in the U.S. is accepted here(especially in the sex area), the level of violence in the U.S. from our point of view is simply horrific. We just evolved a different form of culture from the Americans, and different = low is not necessarily the case.
About the subbing, lets just pray and hope they do a good job(lol)

[MillieFan]

[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by mirai_torankusu [/i]
[B]Here's how I feel on the whole edited/unedited issue: Just because something's uncensored doesn't mean it's good.

For example, take Final Fantasy 7. I think that they went a little overboard with the cursing there. I know that they were trying to present a mature world, and that the game was meant for older people, but the way that they were just throwing them out got a little ridiculous.

So, I think that editing can be good if it's used responsibly. If they just edit something and water it down, then I can see why people would be upset. But if something is unedited, then I would hope that what they have in there is used to further the story, make it seem more real, etc. and not just there to be in there.

By the way, I'm not bashing FF7, because it's probably my favorite Final Fantasy.

Wait, why am I talking about a game in an anime thread? Oh well, it furthers the point, I guess. [/B][/QUOTE]

Finally! Someone who sees FFVII in the same way I do! I loved the game for many things (good characterization, interesting plot, wonderful artwork, great music), but that language was so frequent and so out of place that it really ruined the game for me.

[Shinmaru]

Hey! Someone quoted me! Cool! (acts like a dork and thinks that it's the coolest thing in the world that he was quoted for the first time) Oh yeah, nice quote, MillieFan. I laughed so hard when Wolfwood said that my stomach cramped up.

[MillieFan]

Thanks, LOL. I didn't add the rest of it because that's just the way I am, but I thought that was so funny. . ."nyao"

[Shinmaru]

My sister just asked what "nyao" was. I don't want to be wrong (because I'm crazy), so you must tell her! Tell her what "nyao" is! (and I consider myself a person of "intelligent discussion." Woo!)

[Utena_Tenjou]

The only thing I'm really worried about with Shaman King(besides a dubed opening, theres nothing else to really edit, theres no blood, or cussing from what I've seen), is that'll get as popular as .Hack or Yu-Gi-Oh... thats the kind of things I start to hate about certain series.

[Shinmaru]

There's nothing wrong with anything getting popular, as long as the success doesn't ruin it.

[MillieFan]

"nyao" is that meow-like sound Kuroneko makes. -^.^-

[Shinmaru]

I knew it! I knew it! May Kuroneko bless me for the rest of my days! (waits) Oh...sorry I mentioned it...

Kuroneko: Nyao.

Yes! The cat has blessed me with it's feline strength! Oh yeah, I'm sure Kuroneko has some things to say on this whole censorship/unedited stuff, right?

Kuroneko: Nyao!

Wow...my life will never be the same...