Free Will

[XeEmO]

Is there such a thing? I've come to the conclusion that no one can control anything they do. I don't know if this has ever been posted before but it was something I was thinking about so I just decided to go ahead and post it after I searched for it and didn't find anything right away. My main argument is where do your thoughts come from? They just pop up in your head. How would you control such a thing? Why do we do the things we do? Because of our thoughts? What controls our movements? Do you really feel you have control over everything you do? I think that free will is just some sort of illusion if anything, only to keep us from going insane.

[Syk3]

I think that we do have control over what we do, but I know what you're saying. Sometimes I fear doing something out of my control, and then trying to explain my actions afterwards.

In any case, about thoughts, they don't really pop into your head so much as they are generated by things that you know about other things. It's difficult to really explain, and even then it wouldn't be completely fact, since we would be guessing.

I feel control over the things that I do because when, say, I go to type, I type. It's not like if I [i]try[/i] to do something it wouldn't work. Then you work backwards and it would probably be the same thing, whereas if you try not to do something you wouldn't do it. Have you ever accidently done something that was out of your control?

EDIT: I believe I may have interpreted this wrong..

[Corey]

I would call the generation of thoughts conditioning more than something that just happens. If I were to have grown up in the middle of the city sleeping next to drug dealers and murderers I would mosty likely not be thinking how I do now. If I were to have grown up in England or Canada I would most likely not think the same.

I don't think you can classify free will as the ability to do anything and everything. I would call it the ability to think for yourself. If you would do anything you wanted you would probably end up behind bars. But you can choose not to do that. That is what free will is to me.

[DarK DeatH]

Ithink there is free will... But there are times that you just lose the "free will", that is when adrenaline takes over your body... It happened to me already... Not good memories I can say...
But yeah, like, why am I typing this? Because my thoughts are "popping inside my head" telling me to type? I don't think so... I think thoughts are generated by you, like, let's say you want to drink water... You won't be like "I have to, but I can't", you will probably actually go drink water... It's that simple in my opinion...

[XeEmO]

Ok, well your thoughts do depend on what you have done or what your doing. What I ment though is I don't see how you can have any control over what you think of when. Depending on who you are you might react to things in different ways. If you know that going to jail for example wouldn't be good, then you will try not to go. But why would you do that unless it had to do with something that already happened to you in the past? Your ability to "think" has to do with things that have happened to you. *confusing self* Ok I hope everyone understands what I'm saying. ^_^

[juna]

Happened upon this thread and a poem I had written a bit ago came to mind, it's called [b]Being[/b].

Keep inside; don't speak.
Outpour of thoughts: inwardly humorous.
A heightened sense of knowledge,
or a self-proclaimed insanity?
Is what contemplated in one's mind?
The basis of one's being?
And, if such a remark can be true,
is then one being able to transform by manipulating
What one views and ponders?
Or, will such above named person
Inevitably have bestowed upon them
The inescapable mannerisms and
Thought processes they were destined to?
Does one decide who one is,
or does fate decide who one is?
Is it the sun, the moon?
Is it the earth or the sky?
Nor that; is it physical or metaphysical?
It IS both everything and nothing.
We will always be who we are,
Yet we are in constant change.
Transforming shape,
Altering form,
Growing,
Learning ?
... Being.

So, I believe in free will. You take everything that you have learned, and seen in life and make decisions based on those things. Though these thoughts/decisions may be made subconsciously, they are still made by what you have lived through. Some people decide to go against their "gut" feeling, or what they know is right. By making those decisions, you absolutely prove you have control over what you are doing, or the choices that you make. You know that what you are doing is wrong, or that you should be doing something else, but you decide to do the former, regardless of being against your ?gut? feeling.

Much has to do with what we were taught as children, but much also comes with understanding how to constructively look at your life and learn from the past, then also to make sure that you don?t repeat either what you have done or what was done to you. If you were shown anger as a child, more then likely you are going to show anger as an adult. Until you understand why you are doing something, you can?t really stop doing it.

err, k, ?nuff blabbing? o_O

[RicoTranzrig]

[COLOR=darkblue]I like Juna's response. We have the ability to take in our experiences and mainpulate them with our thoughts and actions based on what's been given to us. It's the way we express ourselves.

Kinda like babies. They want to communicate their needs to us and learn as much as possible, but they have a lot of barriers like language. So what can they do? Cry? Babble?

So, I think all of us have some kind free will. But it's all limited to the imagination until we find a way to express it.[/COLOR]

[stardust]

[I]You can choose a ready guide
In some celestial voice
If you choose not to decide
You still have made a choice

You can choose from phantom fears
And kindness that can kill
I will choose a path that's clear
I will choose free will --RUSH,Freewill
[/I]

Hmmmm....that's an odd question.I think there is such a thing though. Freewill could be demonstartaed by everything we think. People don't totally control what WE think. Yes, maybe the media has SOME control on our thoughts,and many things in life can be[I]influenced[/I]...but think...if we aren't controlling ourselves,who is? Our thoughts come on heir own freewill?Woah,you make my head hurt...I need tot hink about this more...

[XeEmO]

[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by stardust [/i]
[B]Hmmmm....that's an odd question.I think there is such a thing though. Freewill could be demonstartaed by everything we think. People don't totally control what WE think. Yes, maybe the media has SOME control on our thoughts,and many things in life can be[I]influenced[/I]...but think...if we aren't controlling ourselves,who is? Our thoughts come on heir own freewill?Woah,you make my head hurt...I need tot hink about this more... [/B][/QUOTE]
Well I wasn't really saying that anyone was controlling us. I was trying to say that everything we do doesn't happen because we make it happen but because our mind makes it happen. Maybe i'm thinking a bit too deep for my own good, I don't know.

[stardust]

[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by XeEmO [/i]
[B]Well I wasn't really saying that anyone was controlling us. I was trying to say that everything we do doesn't happen because we make it happen but because our mind makes it happen. Maybe i'm thinking a bit too deep for my own good, I don't know. [/B][/QUOTE]

I know what you were saying, but my point was we control OUR MIND,it doesn't control us. We have the ability to control our thouhgts,actions,feelings.I mean,think about it. You do everything that pops into your mind? Cuz I sure don't!

[Shinken]

That may be true, stardust, but isn't another part of our mind creating/developing our thoughts, actions, feelings, etc? In my opinion, free will is just that; free. Free to THINK. And, in most cases, DO. VERB. However you wanna put it, we're mentally free. Then, of course, this brings up the point of environment; In other words, how one's surroundings affect one's personality and, in turn, one's very essence. In my opinion, only one aspect of environment affects our mind; the other beings existing beside us. For example, the aforementioned drug dealers. That type of... [I] interaction [/I], I guess one could say, would have a profound and in essence absolutely different effect than, say, growing up in the stereotypical family (mom, dad, boy and girl). So, when it all comes down to it, people create people in more than one sense. Our actions can and will affect others, even (and, one could say, especially) those whom we barely know, or are completely unaware of. We depend on each other. It's a circle. (Can you say Lion King?)

Oh, and; great poem Juna! Kudos to you. *bows and hits head on computer desk* ^-^x;

[XeEmO]

[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by stardust [/i]
[B]I know what you were saying, but my point was we control OUR MIND,it doesn't control us. We have the ability to control our thouhgts,actions,feelings.I mean,think about it. You do everything that pops into your mind? Cuz I sure don't! [/B][/QUOTE]
Ok, well what do you mean by we can control our thoughts? Is there even such a thing as controling our thoughts? The way I see it everything depends on something else. For example I wouldn't even have brought this up if it wasn't for the fact that I had a conversation about this last night.

[stardust]

Well, you control which way your thoughts go, like opinions. I mean, you can make your own thoughts, or ideas rather. I don't know how to explain it, but I know what I mean. Like, people don't just get thoughts, they develop. Grr, I dunno how to....grr...

[James]

[color=#335062]Everybody has a certain sphere of control. And each person's sphere of control is different to one another.

So, as an example, nobody here has the reach of control that someone like President Bush has. While you and I can maybe influence certain things around us in our immediate lives, none of us have any direct power over a national policy or a military force.

See what I mean?

We certainly have a great deal of control over our own lives. But once again, everyone's level of control is different. If you're very rich, you have virtually unlimited level of control over your own life. But if you're very poor, your control is highly limited; you're often at the mercy of others and the environment around you.

So I guess there are a lot of things you can talk about here. You can talk about basic control (like walking around, the relationships you have, etc etc) or you can talk about a greater level of control (financial independence, owning assets, money increasing your power and influence over others).[/color]

[juna]

[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by James [/i]
[B][color=#335062]So I guess there are a lot of things you can talk about here. You can talk about basic control (like walking around, the relationships you have, etc etc) or you can talk about a greater level of control (financial independence, owning assets, money increasing your power and influence over others).[/color][/B][/QUOTE]
So, one's control over one's life runs to the extent of the riches one hold's? O_o
I don't know if I would agree with that or not, but I can see where you are coming from.
However, I believe the thread is posing the question;
"Free will, Is there such a thing?"
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by XeEmO[/i]
I've come to the conclusion that no one can control anything they do.... My main argument is where do your thoughts come from? They just pop up in your head. How would you control such a thing? Why do we do the things we do? Because of our thoughts? What controls our movements? Do you really feel you have control over everything you do? I think that free will is just some sort of illusion if anything, only to keep us from going insane.[/QUOTE]
Free will is making your own decisions. Whether you are poor or rich, the decisions are still yours to make. Though the decisions may vary, "Should I ram my BMW into this car in front of me?", or, "Should I steal this food so I can eat this week?"
EVERYONE has the ability to make decisions. Everyone has the ability to change their lives.

Glad you liked the poem Battosai, thanks for the nice words. ^_^

[James]

[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by juna [/i]
[B]So, one's control over one's life runs to the extent of the riches one hold's? O_o
I don't know if I would agree with that or not, but I can see where you are coming from.
However, I believe the thread is posing the question;
"Free will, Is there such a thing?"

[/B][/QUOTE]

[color=#335062]Well, I guess I should explain my thought process on it.

Yeah, we're talking about free will. And I'm saying that yes, humans have free will. So when you are able to make choices, the next question is to what extent those choices affect your own life and the life of others. Your financial freedom plays a major role in terms of what choices you are able to make in the first place. Thus, we're still talking about control of one's life and control that influences others. ;) [/color]