Religion

[Terpischore]

Alright - I know what you're all thinking. "Oh good god not another RELIGION debate...i've had enough of these already..." but..you are wrong! I'm not trying to start a debate on what religion is better and what not. So - HERE I GO!


My family doesn't go to church. My mom didn't always like what the preacher was saying, and my dad really didn't want to get up on Sunday mornings and go listen to things that he already knew...since he went when he was younger...same w/ my mom. So - I was wanting to believe in something, just so I could be religious. You should know this - I'm a real strong reader, and i absolutely LOVE everything to do with magic and fantasy. I love Harry Potter, Lord of the Rings, The Matrix..all those magic/fantasy movies. SO - i began reading this book called "Circle of Three". It's a series about 3 girls who become witches and study a religion called Wicca. I thought it was interesting, and got my other friend to read it also, and she loved the books too. She thought up the idea for us to make a coven and practice Wicca also.

So, we did it. We started w/ a few spells and rituals and it was all very cool to me, so me and my friend met up every month and just did little good luck rituals for the upcoming month. Well, i was totally destined to do wicca, because in my horoscope it said taht "uranus is moving into your sign so you're new hobby for march will be witchcraft." I read this excerpt to my mother. She rolled her eyes and said "Witchcraft? Hayley, I hope you never get involved in anything like that..you'll turn weird and goth." and so i didn't know what to tell her and i just nodded my head. So there's my problem w/ family and my "religion". Notice how i put quotiations around religion. Wicca isn't my religion yet - because i'm still soul searching...a couple of weeks ago i dubbed myself agnostic, meaning i only believed in higher beings, not particularly God. So - i'm just practicing Wicca, it's not my religion yet.

Now for my friends problems with it. I have a friend named Mallory who i told and she's is full fledged Christian, and it says in the Bible that witchcraft is bad bad bad satanistic doings...but i told her anyway. At first i thought she was OK with it...but then she told my friend, Alex, because she "didn't want it to be a secret anymore." and so asked alex why she did that...and Alex started to say "It's hard to believe that there are 4 different Gods when you've believed taht there is only 1 God for your whole life!" And i'm not saying that God is bad...but I do'nt think that i believe in him. I have trouble believing in things like that...i mean, i don't get how one guy could be watching over us all the time...where IS he? but like, i saw bruce almighty the other day and i thought..."I really want to believe in God.." but I just COULDN'T. So - here's my question.

I have a problem with my "religion", Wicca, with my family and friends...I sometimes want to believe in God but i just can't, and I don't want to be athiest..but maybe that's the only way. I'm not dedicated to Wicca either...What should i do?


P.S. Geez...sorry for the long post..

[Domon]

Just do what you want, if your "friends" look down on what you choose to do then they really aren't your friends. I agree with you I'm not a christian or an atheist, I don't go to church because I'd have to go to a church with people who are self-centered concieted jerks. So really I think what you're doing is fine and you should just tell your parents what you do. Don't keep it a secret, secrets eventually work their way up the grapevine, its better to tell your parents now instead of hiding it.

Really all I can say is. Do what you want to.

[XeEmO]

Like Domon said, just do what you feel you want to do. Then tell your parents what your doing and why you want to. If your parents don't understand at first then i'm sure they will eventually. It's much better than having your religion be a secret.

[GreenEyedDragon]

Hayley, ilove you FOREVER and i would never judge you by what you do or practice or believe, i was just the messenger for mallory...it doesn't bother me at all anymore (if it ever seemed like it did) and i fullly support you in whatever you do

[Guest XBebop]

Meh. My family never goes to church basicly becuase of your reasons. We only go on holidays, i just pretend to listen to the preist but i'm realy thinking of te hot girl next to me =P . i'm a secular humanist, basiclt an atheist with a few beleifs. Note: Me and my sister are secular humanists, my mom is catholic and won't lemme say anything bad about the bible >.<, my dad..i have no idea wtf he is.

good thing my mom is catholic. CHRISTMAS PRESENTS! lol

[Justin]

Please note this: Most of you know what to expect from me. If you don't want to hear it, don't read it.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Let's set something straight first...

The God of Christianity is not "one guy." He's in no way human at all, and to compare Him to any man/woman/beast/ whatever on the face of His green Earth is foolish and ignorant of the whole religion.

God is purely Spirit, and the only time He's ever existed in a set human form was when He came to Earth as Jesus. God is also transcendant--meaning He does exist here in the dimensions we percieve, but He also exists in dimensions we don't know of, and by the nature of the universe, will never have any proof beyond simple reasoning.

So, let's see what we've got here: God exists here, in the same dimensions as us, but he transcends them and goes beyond into others we can't percieve. This is an essential truth if Christianity is to be true, so that's not a point I'm arguing on, just that I'm stating.

My point is, you(and indeed, most people) try to put God into the box of humanity. This cannot be done--at least not while you're refering to my God. The God of Christianity.

Having said that, God is everywhere, including places Wicca can never take you. I'm not denying the power of Wicca, because there's a demonic power behind every other diety or religion followed, but it'll never, ever, even come close to the power God can manifest in you.

On your saying you want to believe, but you can't: Whom does the Bible ask you to believe? "Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved." Act 16:31.

Do you believe that God has saved others? Do you believe he wants to save you? Do you believe He [i]can[/i] save you? If you answer 'yes', what more do you think you need?

Now, what do I think you should do? "Let he that hath an ear hear what the Spirit is saying the the church." Hear it, and listen to it. [i]That[/i] is I [i]expect[/i] you to do. Go to a doctrinely-sound church(I suggest with your friend Mallory) for one service. [i]That[/i] is what I [i]want[/i] you to do.

-Justin

[James]

[color=#335062]My advice to you is going to be simple.

Do what you think is best for you personally.

If you can't decide, don't. Nobody should be forcing you to decide on something as personal as religion. Explore your options. And if you find nothing at all that interests you, maybe you should consider not being "religious" but still "spiritual", if that makes sense.

I don't know. I'm not religious for a large number of reasons (ie: social, political, ideological, factual, and so on). But that's me. And everybody is a unique individual.

In my view, choosing religion is like choosing a political party or something akin to that. You aren't necessarily just choosing something because everyone else is...or choosing it for some other purpose (though many do). You're choosing it because it speaks to you in a meaningful and profound way. You're choosing it because, as its very core, you are in-line with the philosophies that it is based upon.

So before you do anything, understand [i]what[/i] your exact problem is and work out [i]why[/i] you even want to choose a religion at all. Is it just because you want to belong, or is it because you really have a heartfelt desire for a philosophical guidance in your life? These are things you must consider before you take the plunge, so to speak.

And even if you do take the plunge and decide that it's not right for you...nobody is forcing you to stay in one position. You can always change your mind.

I know I'm not saying anything that you probably haven't heard before, but I'm not going to sit here and advertise my belief system...I'm not going to throw a poster on the wall and say "vote for this!"

Rather, I'm putting the decision in your hands. I guess I'm just trying to bring up some ideas that you might want to consider before you make [i]any[/i] decision of this kind.

EDIT: Regarding your story about how you became interested in Wicca...it sounds to me like you were doing it as a "fun" thing between friends. That's fine, but I think it's important to understand the difference between something that is "cool" and something that is a lifelong philosophy.

So, it seems to me that maybe you're just wanting to choose a religion for similar reasons to choosing Wicca...not necessarily because it speaks to you on a deeper level, but because it's a desire to belong to a religion or something. In my view, you won't find any satisfaction from religion if this is your guide to making the choice.

Maybe you shouldn't actively seek out any religious enlightenment. Maybe you should wait until it comes to you -- until you really notice something that grabs you like nothing has before. If you force it, maybe it won't be right. *shrug*[/color]

[TarMeg1989]

Hmmmm. I am not much of any help, but I am probaly going to say do what you want. If your friends have problem with it there not much of friends are they? But who knows I am confused about religion so I am not much of anything. My mom is catholic just like John's and I can get very confused because my father is something else so I really don't know much to pick. So just do what you do. ~Megan

[stardust]

My friends always have probs w/ me cuz they love church and I can't stand it,the diea of a god seems rather arrogant to me,I dunno why,but think about it,the ony religion I subscribe to is "evolution" not to make light of what u guys believe,I'm known to be wrong

[Terpischore]

Wow...James...thank you so much..you've helped me a LOT...



[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by James [/i]
[B][color=#335062]
So before you do anything, understand [i]what[/i] your exact problem is and work out [i]why[/i] you even want to choose a religion at all. Is it just because you want to belong, or is it because you really have a heartfelt desire for a philosophical guidance in your life? These are things you must consider before you take the plunge, so to speak.[/color] [/B][/QUOTE]

Yes, I truly think that i'm just doing it because I want to belong...I haven't even had a heartfelt desire for a philosophical guidance in Wicca....I think i'm just doing it because I want to fit in..thank you for helping me realize that..

[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by James [/i]
[B][color=#335062]EDIT: Regarding your story about how you became interested in Wicca...it sounds to me like you were doing it as a "fun" thing between friends. [/color] [/B][/QUOTE]

Yes, that's exactly what i was doing. A "fun" thing...just trying to fit in and have a religion. Wow. You nailed it.

[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by James [/i]
[B][color=#335062]So, it seems to me that maybe you're just wanting to choose a religion for similar reasons to choosing Wicca...not necessarily because it speaks to you on a deeper level, but because it's a desire to belong to a religion or something. [/color] [/B][/QUOTE]

YES! Exactly!

[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by James [/i]
[B][color=#335062]Maybe you shouldn't actively seek out any religious enlightenment. Maybe you should wait until it comes to you -- until you really notice something that grabs you like nothing has before. If you force it, maybe it won't be right. *shrug*[/color] [/B][/QUOTE]

I've decided that I shouldn't. I'll wait until it comes to me...thank you so, so much..

[Lady Macaiodh]

[color=darkblue][size=1]A brief addition to what James said:

I know exactly what you're going through, because I went through the same thing. I tore myself all to pieces trying to find the right religion for me. I must have read every sacred book imaginable (that I could find, anyway), but in the end, I was more confused than ever. I was no closer to making any sort of decision that I was in the beginning.

Once I stopped stressing about it, it became obvious to me that I didn't even know myself enough yet to decide anything. I had to grow as a person first.

You're still pretty young. If you don't already have a core belief system, or if you haven't experienced something that could help you decide, I'd say just give it time. When the time is right, you'll know what to do. Everything else is just pointless speculation.

Hope that helps.[/color][/size]

[RPGchick]

"everything happens for a reason". a quote i firmly believe. it seems to apply to this situation as well. you didnt go to church w/ your parents, therefore, maybe you werent meant for that religion. you have looked at alot of different religions and havent quite found the one you have felt suited you best. i think you should do whatever it is that jumps out at you. if you see a religion that you really are interested in, make sure to look in to it before you declare yourself that religion. maybe, you dont have to be a specific religion at all. you can believe what ever you want. for example, my friend who practices witchcraft, still believes that god is there. she does not believe that he doesnt want us to practice witchcraft, because she is not catholic. what i am saying, if you do not find a religion that is right for you, that doesnt mean that you cant still believe what you want. follow what your heart tells you(okay, so that was kinda cheesy, but you get the basic picture..)if your parents or friends dont approve, that is their choice. if you truly believe in these things, you should not worry what they think. if your friends dont support you, just because of what you believe, then they are not your true friends. if your family doesnt approve, and you arent going to turn goth(which really seems to me, a personal choice) then that is their problem. just do what feels right.

[PiroMunkie]

[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by Terpischore[/i]
[B]...and Alex started to say "It's hard to believe that there are 4 different Gods when you've believed taht there is only 1 God for your whole life!"[/B][/QUOTE][size=1]What is funny is that, unless I am mistaken, Wicca only has one god along with one goddess. Hopefully, this "Alex" was just saying some random number and not assuming a number of deities in a religion.

When it comes to religion, I am rather against it. I have lost some people who were once friends because they decided to become religious. Before they did that they would be right there next to me in blasphemous humor, next thing you know they would jump down my throat at anything I said that was remotely anti-religion (but only [i]their[/i] religion).

Being that it seems you have already been enlightened by James, I shall just state my theological standpoint in a nutshell: Those who sit around and wait to be saved do not realize that it is they who can save themselves.[/size]

[Domon]

Justin I argree with you to an extent and I mean no offense to you and your beliefs but the girl can do what she wants, she doesn't have to go to a church, like she said. She believes in bigger things like dieties etc.

And to me god is god he's there. I don't go to church because I just don't want to. In my own way I'll worship god how I want. But there are times when I doubt there is a god. Like take for example, if there were a god where was he when September 11, 2001 happened? He wasn't there to save those thousands of people that died, now I'm not trying to turn this into a flamming contest but I'm just asking. No way am I trying to attack you but just asking in a manner of two mature people discussing a simple topic. I know you could point to the story of Jobe to justify the deaths of those inoccent people but still, I doubt in him sometimes, I mean yes I do belive there is something bigger than us but I don't know what it is. People have been worshipping dieties for ages, I mean look at the Romans or the Greeks, they worshipped at least a dozen gods and that was their religion. Muslims basically view the same religion as Christianity but they view Jesus as a prophet and not the son of god.

What I'm trying to get at is that we are free to choose what religion we want to view, to me all religions are fine. And she's free to choose what she wants.

[GreenEyedDragon]

[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by Domon [/i]
[B] But there are times when I doubt there is a god. Like take for example, if there were a god where was he when September 11, 2001 happened?[/B][/QUOTE]

Again, not to start some awful debate or anything, i would just like to share a belief here that might..i dunno...clarfy that, Domon.

I believe that God doesn't make things happen, he gave us the gift of free will and the ability to make our own choices--so that we could live out our lives...Now, on September 11, God was there, but he couldn't do much to help that very instant that those planes crashed or were taken over by terrorists, because he cannot affect free will and what people choose.

Furthermore, once we have made our choices, and things have happened, i believe that that is the time that God steps in...God takes situations and perpetually makes the best of them, He makes them good.

When you question where God is when things like September 11 happen, can you not also question why wars happen? and that there is a simple answer...Man got mad at man--conflict occured, and people got hurt...Same thing for 9/11, but God just made good of it, by bringing our nation together and making us realize exactly how lucky we are to have internet, and to be able to read, and to have clothes, and food, and the freedom of choice in our own lives--not by some stupid government...we get to vote, and we get to build our lives from what we make it....God make us realize that, and make 9/11 good.

[Domon]

Good?! You call the blood shed of over 1,000 people good?! I call it nothing but cold hearted murder. And the aftermath of what our so called "patiotisim" was 99.9% of the people going after Muslim families that were U.S. citizens and calling them up and threatining their children or that they would attack and kill their kids or them, now do you call that patriotism??? No, I call it stooping to "their" level. "Their" being as the cold-hearted terrorists that had the nerve to steal several planes and slam them into two towers and our nation's defense HQ. and killing men, women, and children. What a lot of people did after that was just as bad, you don't know how many Muslim families were threatened by "Good U.S. citizens" do you. Too many, all because they had the same faith as the people that did that. Well I really don't see as how 9/11/01 was good, we lost too many people on that day. Too many lives were lost and too many faimiles were either shattered or destroyed. Now tell me this, how can you look at a child whose parent (s) who died on that day that it was a good thing, tell me that.

[James]

[color=#335062]Okay, come on guys...keep this on topic.

Let's simply address the points brought up by the thread creator, rather than moving off onto unrelated tangents.[/color]

[Guest cloricus]

Why does every one say goths are bad? I personally think they are hot... *Watches all the people glare at him* ...Well I do!

As for choosing a religion it can be a mine field, and a big one at that.
If you are interested in witchcraft there are some other ones besides Wicca, though only a few of them preach the idea that it isn't a good thing to kill as many people as you can. I think you should stay away from those types that like excessive killing! Though the others are interesting, if you?re into that.
Then you have that whole thing about you can't really just chop and chose what you want to believe in, this isn't my opinion but people that are older than myself (including James) have said this quiet strongly to me, I don't know if I really care? It just seems to be an ever mounting thing that just makes me wonder if it?s worth believing in a god, I'm not even sure if I still do.

Just a side question to that, if I don't believe in a god how can I be a Christian fundamentalist? I had two people say that to me, neither of them could say why I was though. One was a priest and one was Harlequin, though I think he only said that because the priest had and he wanted to sound intelligent.

Anyway I thought I might do a bit of a thing on that because most other people have tried to cover the friend?s angle. Sorry about it going off track a bit, there is some things up there that may interest you. :p

-eps-

[CalmLikeABomb]

Personally, I'm not really of any religion, but some see me as polytheistic just because I say "BY THE GODS!" which I do only because it sounds cooler.

[Queen Asuka]

[color=hotpink][size=1]All I have to say is this: if you truly want to know, why don't you try asking God himself? Why don't you do a bit of praying, perhaps?

Of course alot of people say there is not point because God can't answer you back, but if you pray with a sincere heart and you truly yearn for an answer, you will know when it comes.

You can't just CHOOSE to be a certain religion.[/color][/size]

[Dmitri_Dragoon]

Whether or not God exists isn't my big concern in life. After the first 12 years of my memorable life, I decided if there was a god he would do more to protect us, but upon reading what others have said I realized that he wasn't going to help us, but let us kill ourselves off so he could start again. Because he considered us a failure in his grand scheme of things. That's my belief and I hope you all hate it because I don't care.
For a while I searched for a religion, looked to Catholocism, Satanism, Buhdism(sp), and even Islam. But upon reading parts of all of those holy books I decided that they were all full of crap so I just turned to somewhat paiganism. I believe that there is a god or goddess, or several. But I've also come to harness the love of Nature, a force that cares not for good or evil, nor passes judgment. Nature is the only thing with any sense, even though we don't know it. I believe everything in nature speaks to us, but we have just turned a deaf ear to it long ago.
Along with those beliefs I came to discover that god [i]is[/i] in the heart of all men. But the god that is in our heart is a god of our own making. It is the power that gives us our morals and principles, it is our conscience. But with the founding of the Major Religions, by man, those morals and principles got shot out the whazoo because clerics had to force their beliefs onto somebody and destroy whatever beliefs they may have once had. Pretty much like what the over pious kid on my bus does whenever he asks me if I believe in god or not, and I tell him the same thing on here. Then he gets offended and says I'm going to hell and all that. So I just shrug and say, "If I'm going to hell for my beliefs then I have a good reason not to whorship your god.
Well I'm just rambling now and probably making no sense, I read this entire thread saying that I wasn't going to post on it, because I would probably get off topic. But for some reason I pushed the 'post reply' button and found myself typing. So I'm sorry if this is confusing, I just wrote it as I thought it.

[Terpischore]

Agh..this is exactly what I didn't want when making this post, people arguing about religion...this is the hardest topic of all! You can't persuade somebody to go to a different religion because it's in their SOUL what they want to do, and here we are just...saying how God is good and how God isn't good and how there are numerous Gods and then how there aren't and GAH just stop all the arguing!

Whoever said the comment about there only being one god and goddess in Wicca, perhaps there are, but in my practicing you must cast a circle to cast a spell, and in doing so you invite the gods of air, earth, water, and fire into your circle. That's what i meant when i said 4 gods.

Ya'll, you can post after my post, but only if its to comment on anything or try to help me in any sort of way. I've decided that i'm athiest until further notice. I have no religion. Alex and Mallory and all my other friends are cool with that, it's how it was before i tried finding a religion. Thank you for all of your posts, you've helped me a lot. Just please stop arguing about religion..i say it again, it's the hardest topic to argue.

[GreenEyedDragon]

James, please close this post now, its getting out of hand...

[Sui Generis]

Ok I'm not going to argue on religions (Yes I know its one of my hobbies :-p) I'm just going to say one thing. Its only my belief so I'm not saying anyone else here is wrong for defending their religion, BUT.....

I personally think religions were created for each individual person. No one religion in my opinion can fully cover every person on this Earth. We all need different things added to our lives and I think thats why there are so many religions out there. Religions provide that safety, comfort, mystery, whatever to life that we so desire. I honestly don't think there is one right religion, religion itself can't be right or wrong in my opinion.

I guess what I'm trying to say through all this babble is, do what is comfortable to you. Choose the religion that fits your needs the most.

I know this kinda goes against the Christian faith, and sounds kinda of selfish in some ways, I'm not trying to count out any possibilities so again sorry.

But yeah, to each their own. So go with the religion you want to!

(I'm kinda discourage, we've had some mature debates on this thread, but when someone says no debating, thats what I'd expect from this place. Kinda shocks me. Oh well)

[PiroMunkie]

[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by Terpischore[/i]
[B]Whoever said the comment about there only being one god and goddess in Wicca, perhaps there are, but in my practicing you must cast a circle to cast a spell, and in doing so you invite the gods of air, earth, water, and fire into your circle. That's what i meant when i said 4 gods.[/B][/QUOTE][size=1]I am just going to make a quick comment on this. In Wicca there is a Lord and Lady, but I have also read that, as you mentioned, other deific spirits can, and are, called upon during the casting of spells. The thing is that these spirits are not exclusively involved in Wicca. They are generic. For example, you mentioned water. Instead of just using "the god of water", one may use the name Neptune. Neptune was also used by the Romans in their mythology who was equivalent to the Greek god of the sea, Poseidon.

I have never fully understood these "secondary" deities, but the way I saw it was that they are just a way of personifying a specific aspect of nature. Instead of inviting the Lord or Lady into your circle who symbolize very broad points of life, one would just take single, or a few, aspects of the world and universe for a more concentrated focus on the spell. It is simply taking something like water, and giving it a name. For to give something a name is to give it power, and with its power it lends a helping hand to whatever you may be practicing.


I am not trying to argue with you or anything, just clear some things up from what I know in reading up on Wicca because one of my friends is/was of that religion.

If it helps any, I support the decision you have thus made for now about religion. it is pretty much how I am except without the "until further notice", and I do not really consider myself an athiest. I do not consider myself anything really. Someone can put a label on me if it gives them peace of mind, but if someone were to ask my religious beliefs I would just either tell them I do not have any or something along those lines.

Best of luck to you.[/size]