Gaming Nintendo's biggest mistakes

[Shinmaru]

Darn it all, this post accidently got deleted before because I got logged out on accident.

Before I start this, I don't want this thread to turn into a forum where people can flame Nintendo (or any other company for that matter). I'm just starting this to show people that, as Semjaza told me in a PM relating to this post, that Nintendo is not perfect and that they do make mistakes, hard as it is to believe lol.

Okay, I'll start off with an easy one: The Virtual Boy. For those of you who don't know, the Virtual Boy was a "portable" console released by Nintendo in August of 1995 (US release date). There were many faults about the Virtual Boy, but the biggest one in my opinion was the total lack of support by third parties. Although every Game Boy system had this fault, the Virtual Boy had it the worst. Just about every single good game that was made for this system was made by Nintendo. Not a very good recipe for success, despite Nintendo's pedigree.

Another fault to the system is that it took either plugging in the system to an outlet or, God forbid, if you actually wanted to test the portability of the system, which I'll touch upon later, you had to use six AA batteries. Six AA's are a lot and it can get expensive very quickly if you use the system a lot (which was also a problem with more advanced technology at the time like the Game Gear and others).

Now another big one: the portablility. It's obvious by the way that Nintendo made this battery powered that it was meant to be portable. However, I've never come into contact with a system that was less portable lol. First off, you had to look into the visor to see the games (and who in their right mind would walk around while looking into this anyway?). Secondly, you had to use the controller to control the games, so you couldn't even walk around with this, since you had to hold the controller. So, it was probably meant for table top play, right? Well, the problem with that was that, unless you were short, you had to bend over to see the game that you were playing, which is murder on the back (believe me, I've played the VB enough times to have figured that one out lol).

Unfortunately, the failure of the Virtual Boy got Mr. Gunpei Yokoi fired from Nintendo even though he had made them billions over the years (Yokoi was the inventor of the Virtual Boy and helped Miyamoto make Donkey Kong). Nintendo had asked him to innovate all he could with this new system and, unfortunately, it backfired on them.

And there you have it. Proof that even the greatest can make mistakes. However, Nintendo learned from this, and went slowly with the Game Boy Advance. They advanced the technology as far as they could while still maintaining optimal portability at an affordable price. I'm sure that there are more mistakes that Nintendo has made over the years (I can think of a few off the top of my head), but I've already had my say. Anyone else have something to say?

[SS5 Gogeta]

A big mistake that I think that Nintendo made was to censor out the blood and gore of the first Mortal Kombat. While Sega had blood and gore codes. Although the SNES version was definately superior to the Genesyst, people still wanted the Sega version instead because it maintained all of its gore and gibs. Thus Sega and everyone else dissapointed by this gave Nintendo a "kiddie" image. Even though Nintendo learned their lesson and retained the second one as it was as the arcade version, people still looked at Nintendo as the "kiddie console." So I think that's one of Nintendo's biggest mistakes.

Note: I think this mistake probably only affected America's view on Nintendo the most, so I'm not sure if you guys in Europe or Australia ever thought this way.

[Shinmaru]

That's a good one. I think that it was also a mistake because with Nintendo censoring the blood and gore, it brought more attention to the Sega version of Mortal Kombat and the infamous "violence in video games" issue that politicians never want to leave alone.

[Charles]

I would say that Nintendo's desire to stick with a cartridge-based format to compete with the 32 bit consoles was quite a big mistake (although I did favor the N64 to the Saturn).

On one hand, I liked the lack of load times, and the sturdier games (some of my PSX games got scratched badly even though I treated them with care). Plus, the actual N64 unit was far more reliable than the PSX. My Playstation would skip during cinematics and such. And, who could fault Nintendo for being hesitant to jump into CD-based media? Piracy rates were much higher. Nintendo's done a darn good job to this day combating that with the GC mini discs.

But, in the end, the cons outweighed the pros as far as Nintendo is concerned. Despite the fact that the N64 was technically superior hardware in certain respects, the advantages meant little in the long run because developers favored the CD-based hardware; it was easy to make games for, plain and simple.

It's true that the PSX played host to leagues and leagues of horrible titles due to the cheap manufacturing costs and the developer friendliness, but on the other hand it offered more creative freedom and shorter development cycles--which attracted valuable third party support. Who could forget Square jumping ship to Sony do to some of these reasons? That was "the big one." Cinematic titles such as the Final Fantasy series and Konami's Metal Gear Solid wouldn't be possible for a reasonable price and development cycle on Nintendo's side of the fence.

So, I think that is a big mistake that Nintendo is still recovering from today. They're slowly regaining third party support, but they've lost a lot of ground to Sony as far as the console business is concerned. I'm left wondering if their hesitance to jump into the online foray will be a mistake or a wise decision. I suppose that only time will tell.

[James]

[color=#335062]I'm not sure that the failure of the Virtual Boy resulted in Yokoi being [i]fired[/i] from Nintendo. From what I remember, he willingly left Nintendo to start his own development firm, Vic Tokai (which produced Dark Rift on the N64). As well all know, Yokoi died before the game was released. V_V;

In my view, one of Nintendo's biggest mistakes is its inability to effectively communicate with the market.

Games like Grand Theft Auto do not sell based on their quality. They sell based on their image and hype. I'm not saying that these games [i]can't[/i] sell based on their quality, but there can be no question that hype and PR play 90% of the role when it comes to shifting these games off the shelves.

During the GameCube's lifespan, for instance, Nintendo has certainly had plenty of material to work with. Games like Metroid Prime were indeed marketed more effectively than games like Pikmin or Mario Sunshine...but when you compare these efforts to those during the early days of the N64 (most noteably, games like Mario 64), the effort is really lackluster.

Considering that Nintendo is the most profitable video game company in the world, and considering that it runs on no debt and on a massive cash surplus...you'd think that it would invest more energy in its public relations efforts. But not so.

Still, Nintendo is learning. Things are starting to turn around. Nintendo will be in a much better position with its next generation game console, which it's already been working on for some time.[/color]

[Shinmaru]

[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by James [/i]
[B][color=#335062]I'm not sure that the failure of the Virtual Boy resulted in Yokoi being [i]fired[/i] from Nintendo. From what I remember, he willingly left Nintendo to start his own development firm, Vic Tokai (which produced Dark Rift on the N64). As well all know, Yokoi died before the game was released. V_V;[/color] [/B][/QUOTE]

If you want to check out the website where I got my information from, then here it is: [url]http://www.virtual-boy.org/[/url]

If my information is wrong, then I apologize for my mistake. After all, we all make mistakes, don't we? That's what this thread's all about. :)

[James]

[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by mirai_torankusu [/i]
[B]If you want to check out the website where I got my information from, then here it is: [url]http://www.virtual-boy.org/[/url]

If my information is wrong, then I apologize for my mistake. After all, we all make mistakes, don't we? That's what this thread's all about. :) [/B][/QUOTE]

[color=#335062]Hm yeah, I'm not sure [i]exactly[/i] where it makes reference to Yokoi leaving Nintendo on here...but yeah, I've asked around (a few editors and so on) to confirm my thoughts. They all seem to agree that Yokoi left on his own.

Anyway, that's quite an interesting site -- lots of great magazine resources on there.

[/color]

[Shinmaru]

[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by James [/i]
[B][color=#335062]Hm yeah, I'm not sure [i]exactly[/i] where it makes reference to Yokoi leaving Nintendo on here...but yeah, I've asked around (a few editors and so on) to confirm my thoughts. They all seem to agree that Yokoi left on his own.[/color] [/B][/QUOTE]

You know, I just noticed that two sections of this site contradict each other when it comes to how Yokoi left. The actual Virtual Boy section of the website, which is the link located under the updates link and is the part where I got most of my information, says that Nintendo fired Yokoi. It's the last sentence of the paragraph that talks about how the Virtual Boy had to compete with the Sega Saturn and the Sony PlayStation.

But the Gunpei Yokoi section, which is the link located under the FAQ link, states that Yokoi resigned from Nintendo, because they blamed him for the failure of the Virtual Boy. I believe it's the first sentence of the eighth paragraph if anyone wants to check it out. So, I think that you're information could be correct, James. It would probably be better if Yokoi left of his own accord instead of getting fired by Nintendo. The man's one of the biggest heroes of video gaming (he's almost as, if not more, revered than Shigeru Miyamoto).

[James]

[color=#335062]Well, on the subject of failures, I mean...Shigeru Miyamoto has had his failures in the past. Or at least, he's pushed certain ideas that haven't worked.

Yet Nintendo know he's too much of an asset to simply fire him. I suspect that the same is true of Yokoi, particularly given Yokoi's senior status in the company for so many years.

Either way, Yokoi is one interesting man. It's funny how the Virtual Boy crashed so badly, yet most of Yokoi's other innovations were stunning successes. Yokoi was really like "the Miyamoto of hardware", I guess.[/color]

[Shinmaru]

I think that it would be really interesting to read about some stuff that Miyamoto has pushed that ended up not working.

I just finished reading the Yokoi biography on the website and he was a pretty interesting guy. I mean, you don't invent the most successful handheld console in history and not have an interesting life lol.

[Guest Mystik]

[quote](he's almost as, if not more, revered than Shigeru Miyamoto).[/quote]

ok let me put it this way. Shigeru Miyamoto came up with the ideas for the greatest hits in video game history (The Legend of Zelda(debuted in 1981 for the NES) Super Mario Brothers, Mario Golf, Super Smash Brothers, SSBM, Metroid, Metroid Prime, Metroid Fusion, (and all the other metroids out there), All the zelda games, Pikmin( one of the best selling games for the gamecube, and given the graphics of the year award at 2002's E3. also given best gameplay award at the 2002 E3. I think there is not anyone in the world who makes video games who can claim to be more revered than Shigeru Miyamoto. Zelda was given a perfect 10/10 by the Game informer magazine, a 5/5 on X Play on Tech Tv, and many other magazines, and it is THE best selling game thats ever come out for GC. I remember everywhere i went to get my copy, they were sold out before i got there. long gone. it took me 2 weeks to get my copy because they were sold out.

[quote]Well, on the subject of failures, I mean...Shigeru Miyamoto has had his failures in the past. Or at least, he's pushed certain ideas that haven't worked.

Yet Nintendo know he's too much of an asset to simply fire him[/quote]

Well, seeing as he is lead designer and OWNER of nintendo, they cannot fire him.

[Shinmaru]

Last time I checked, Hiroshi Yamauchi was still the owner of Nintendo. Miyamoto, to my knowledge, has never been the owner of Nintendo.

[James]

[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by Mystik [/i]
[B]


Well, seeing as he is lead designer and OWNER of nintendo, they cannot fire him. [/B][/QUOTE]

[color=#335062]Shigeru Miyamoto wasn't responsible for Metroid, firstly. In fact, he's never been involved in Metroid...only Metroid Prime.

Secondly, he hasn't directed a game in years. The Wind Waker and Majora's Mask were not directed by Miyamoto. Luigi's Mansion was directed by Hideko Konno (who is also responsible for Mario Kart and the Yoshi games) and Super Mario Sunshine was directed by Yoshiaki Koizumi (who also came up with the FLUDD idea).

I'm not trying to diminish Miyamoto-san's importance, but he isn't the be-all and end-all of Nintendo.

Secondly, Miyamoto doesn't "own" Nintendo. He is on the board of directors, but he doesn't run the business. Nintendo's President is Satoru Iwata.

Also, I was referring to the idea of Gunpei Yokoi being fired...not Miyamoto. Maybe I didn't make that very clear.

I think it's also worth bearing in mind that by focusing all your attention on Miyamoto, you forget some important people who have been heavily involved in the success of Nintendo.

For instance, Mitsuhiro Takano has played a massive role at NCL in recent years. He's done everything from script writing to assistant directing. He was heavily involved in the production of The Wind Waker for GameCube.

Yoshio Sakamoto was primarily responsible for Metroid Fusion; he directed it. He also played a massive role in the development of Metroid Prime.

So, I could go on and on. Basically, it's important to remember Miyamoto's position in the company overall. I would hate for other talented people to miss out on getting some recognition. ~_^ [/color]

[Guest Mystik]

ok, maybe i didnt say this very clearly, but what i meant is that shigeru miyamoto made the original zelda game in 1981. i dont know if many of you people out there realize, but there was many before the N64 version. And i said lead director, what i meant was designer, he designs and makes many of the games. which is why he played such an important role in mario games, the original ones for NES were all what he did basically, his ideas, his programming, etc back when nintendo was one of the only, and the best around(atari and other things made only like 3,000$ a year after nintendo showed up.) And, the original mario game by Shigeru Miyamoto is the best selling game with the exception of the original The Legend of Zelda (both for NES) that Nintendo ever came out with. (they made litterally billions off of the games.)Over 100,000,000 (100million) copies sold for both of them each individually.
p.s. Super Mario Sunshine pwnz

[Brasil]

[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by Charles [/i]
[B]I would say that Nintendo's desire to stick with a cartridge-based format to compete with the 32 bit consoles was quite a big mistake (although I did favor the N64 to the Saturn).

On one hand, I liked the lack of load times, and the sturdier games (some of my PSX games got scratched badly even though I treated them with care). Plus, the actual N64 unit was far more reliable than the PSX. My Playstation would skip during cinematics and such. And, who could fault Nintendo for being hesitant to jump into CD-based media? Piracy rates were much higher. Nintendo's done a darn good job to this day combating that with the GC mini discs.

But, in the end, the cons outweighed the pros as far as Nintendo is concerned. Despite the fact that the N64 was technically superior hardware in certain respects, the advantages meant little in the long run because developers favored the CD-based hardware; it was easy to make games for, plain and simple.

It's true that the PSX played host to leagues and leagues of horrible titles due to the cheap manufacturing costs and the developer friendliness, but on the other hand it offered more creative freedom and shorter development cycles--which attracted valuable third party support. Who could forget Square jumping ship to Sony do to some of these reasons? That was "the big one." Cinematic titles such as the Final Fantasy series and Konami's Metal Gear Solid wouldn't be possible for a reasonable price and development cycle on Nintendo's side of the fence.

So, I think that is a big mistake that Nintendo is still recovering from today. They're slowly regaining third party support, but they've lost a lot of ground to Sony as far as the console business is concerned. I'm left wondering if their hesitance to jump into the online foray will be a mistake or a wise decision. I suppose that only time will tell. [/B][/QUOTE]

But Charles, in every system war argument I've seen, they don't argue over format.

They argue over ?kiddy image.? So, based on the rampant flame wars I?ve seen, I really don't think Nintendo is still trying to recover from a long history of cartridge-based systems.

Even though I value my Gamecube very highly, I still find myself longing for 1997 through 2000, when my N64 reigned supreme. I regard the cartridge-based N64 much more lovingly than Cube, because I played so many perfect games on it. GoldenEye 007, Super Smash Bros. 1, Mario Party 1, Perfect Dark, Bomberman 64.

N64 was an amazing system. There's a reason it's still plugged in over my PSX. That may come from being a Nintendo whore, but there was a period when I played PSX and PS2 all the time.

I think the ?kiddy image? is still the prevailing problem now.

Plus, wasn't Nintendo always about 1st party? I don't think we can say a system failed because of lack of 3rd party support. Systems die because of more advanced systems.

Sega Genesis, for example, had HUGE 3rd party support, but it died out long before SNES. This in part due to an inferior system architecture. Hands down, SNES was simply built better. Many players kept Genesis around due to 1st party games, i.e. Sonic. Whether or not we have 3rd party input doesn't necessarily matter, in the case of Nintendo especially, because they have a huge 1st party gaming base (Mario, Zelda, Metroid, F-Zero) on which to draw from.

Also, NES has an extensive library of roughly 500 games, I believe. I think it?s safe to say that it had HUGE 3rd party support. Now, NES is arguably one of the greatest video game systems ever created, and many children of the 80s still fire their NES up to play a classic Duck Hunt or Legend Of Zelda. In a sense, NES never died?and it was a cartridge-based system, Charles.

[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by Mystik [/i]
[B]ok, maybe i didnt say this very clearly, but what i meant is that shigeru miyamoto made the original zelda game in 1981. i dont know if many of you people out there realize, but there was many before the N64 version. And i said lead director, what i meant was designer, he designs and makes many of the games. which is why he played such an important role in mario games, the original ones for NES were all what he did basically, his ideas, his programming, etc back when nintendo was one of the only, and the best around(atari and other things made only like 3,000$ a year after nintendo showed up.) And, the original mario game by Shigeru Miyamoto is the best selling game with the exception of the original The Legend of Zelda (both for NES) that Nintendo ever came out with. (they made litterally billions off of the games.)Over 100,000,000 (100million) copies sold for both of them each individually.
p.s. Super Mario Sunshine pwnz [/B][/QUOTE]

Considering NES debuting within a year of 1985, I highly doubt Zelda was released in 1981, Mystik.

[Guest Mystik]

well, when i play the game it says Copyright 1981 Nintendo..i'll have to check that out

[James]

[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by Mystik [/i]
[B]ok, maybe i didnt say this very clearly, but what i meant is that shigeru miyamoto made the original zelda game in 1981. i dont know if many of you people out there realize, but there was many before the N64 version. And i said lead director, what i meant was designer, he designs and makes many of the games. which is why he played such an important role in mario games, the original ones for NES were all what he did basically, his ideas, his programming, etc back when nintendo was one of the only, and the best around(atari and other things made only like 3,000$ a year after nintendo showed up.) And, the original mario game by Shigeru Miyamoto is the best selling game with the exception of the original The Legend of Zelda (both for NES) that Nintendo ever came out with. (they made litterally billions off of the games.)Over 100,000,000 (100million) copies sold for both of them each individually.
p.s. Super Mario Sunshine pwnz [/B][/QUOTE]

[color=#335062]Well, you're kind of getting off the track a little now.

You originally listed a group of games that you said Shigeru Miyamoto designed. And so, I was just explaining that Miyamoto's role isn't that "omnipotent".

I mean, he didn't act as a programmer in any of the Mario titles, for instance. He was never a programmer; he was a graphic designer.

Also, I don't know why you're sitting there listing sales figures. You're not telling me anything that I (or any well-read Nintendo fan) doesn't already know.

I am just pointing out that there is much more to Nintendo than Shigeru Miyamoto. Miyamoto is a genius, no doubt. And he's highly important to Nintendo. But HE isn't all of Nintendo in one man. Just look at the people I spoke about earlier; they deserve credit too.

As for Zelda...The Legend of Zelda was published in 1986, wasn't it?[/color]

[Brasil]

Yeah, James, I'm positive it came out around 1986. NES wasn't even released until 1985 or so.

Mystik, I'd check out your copy. If you're playing it on an actual working NES (which is unlikely, might I add), you might have a pirated copy or an unofficial one.

Or, are you using emulation? Your ROM could have been altered...a glitch in the programming conversion.

[Semjaza]

Zelda was released in Japan in 1984. I think the Famicom Disk System version was in 1986, which allowed for save (the original used passwords I think).

Everywhere else, it was 1986, like was said. Hell, the Famicom wasn't even released until 1983, so 1981 isn't even possible.

In the past, I think you can mostly look at Shirgeru as basically an Art Director. He doesn't necessarily make the end product, but he is heavily involved in the design process and where it is headed to. That role is lessened now, as he mostly acts as producer at this point from what I remember.

As for mistakes, there are many. They've obviously made many right decisions though. I think it's important to differentiate between what [i]we[/i] think are mistakes and what [i]they[/i] do. For all the complaining people do about certain practices, Nintendo gets more money thanks to those very same practices. To them, it's the money, and really I think that's all it was ever going to be about. Thankfully they seemed to generally be more about getting sales thanks to quality games than just pumping out licensed garbage.

It seems as though they're headed into a new direction with Iwata... He seems to know the source of many of their problems... problems I don't think Yamauchi even wanted to notice. So we'll see.

Cartridges for N64 was probably their biggestthough, along with the poor development kits early on. Especially in terms of Square, who alone isn't a HUGE deal... but they convinced Enix to jump ship with them. Until that point, Dragon Quest 7 was still planned for the N64's 64DD. It's pretty much a given that most every other 3rd party will follow Enix and Square because the systems are guaranteed a huge base just because of Final Fantasy and Dragon Quest.

I don't consider Virtual Boy that much of a mistake. It was horribly priced, and few games really took advantage of it... But it could have been a very cool idea if it was pulled off properly. Wario Land VB and Mario Clash still kick ***.

[Shinmaru]

Yeah, I think I made the Virtual Boy sound a lot worse than it actually was lol. Wario Land VB and Mario Clash (especially Mario Clash) were really good games. I actually spent about an hour and a half playing Mario Clash at Toys 'R Us once. My eyes really hurt afterward lol.

[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by Semjaza Azazel [/i]
[B]As for mistakes, there are many. They've obviously made many right decisions though. I think it's important to differentiate between what [i]we[/i] think are mistakes and what [i]they[/i] do. For all the complaining people do about certain practices, Nintendo gets more money thanks to those very same practices. To them, it's the money, and really I think that's all it was ever going to be about. Thankfully they seemed to generally be more about getting sales thanks to quality games than just pumping out licensed garbage.[/B][/QUOTE]

It is pretty much a common practice by a lot of Nintendo fans to piss and moan about something that Nintendo is doing that might be different than what they're used to. People have to remember that even though Nintendo is releasing games for people to have fun with, they're still doing what is best for [b]them.[/b] They're in this to make money and if they think that making some changes to their games will make them money, they'll do it. They've demonstrated that in the past.

Edit: Forgot to add this in earlier, but I didn't think that the Virtual Boy itself was a bad idea, it's just that I think the whole Virtual Boy regime was handled poorly by Nintendo. Sorry if it sounded like I absolutely hated the Virtual Boy.

[MarkM]

Their biggest mistake was gamecube and zelda the windwaker....

[Guest Mystik]

[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by PoisonTongue [/i]
[B]Yeah, James, I'm positive it came out around 1986. NES wasn't even released until 1985 or so.

Mystik, I'd check out your copy. If you're playing it on an actual working NES (which is unlikely, might I add), you might have a pirated copy or an unofficial one.

Or, are you using emulation? Your ROM could have been altered...a glitch in the programming conversion. [/B][/QUOTE]

my NES works to a certain extent, the only game i am still able to save is Zelda and Punch Out(uses codes). it must just be a glitch in the system, i bought it used from babbages when my first copy went out on me at about the age of 5. so it must just be an error in the system itself, seeing as how old it is.

[b]Edit:[/b][quote]Their biggest mistake was gamecube and zelda the windwaker....[/quote]

no offense, but your a stuborn 4$$

[Desbreko]

[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by Mystik [/i]
[B]no offense, but your a stuborn 4$$ [/B][/QUOTE]
[color=indigo]No offense, but if you keep flaming people you're going to end up banned. I suggest you read the [url=http://www.theotaku.com/rules.shtml]rules[/url] before continuing to post. Other people are free to express their opinion, and disagreeing with it doesn't give you the right to insult them.

And just for the record, The Legend of Zelda was released in the US in July 1987. You can find the release dates of all the games on Zelda.com.[/color]