A push to ban toy guns?

[Sara]

[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by XBebop [/i]
[B]i REALY hope your being sarcastic.. [/B][/QUOTE] [SIZE=1]On which point were you hoping for sarcasm? There was none in that post, but I'm curious.[/SIZE]

[redsilhouettex]

Why do kids need toy guns? What does having a toy gun teach a child? Guns are for adults [and even they seem to have a hard time using them properly ], and kids need to know that. If you give a kid a toy gun, who's to say that he/she wont find daddy's gun and play with that too? Why not give the kid a book to read, a toy doctor's kit, or a train set?

There's no real reason why kids need toy guns. While I don't think that toy guns are really the problem, incidents like the one with the police officer, as well as others, could have been prevented if the kids were not allowed to play with guns or if the guns did not look realistic. I don't think the officer dealth with the situation in a reasonable manner, but if it would've been a brightly coloured gun, he wouldn't have been put in that situation. If all toy guns were made to look unrealistic, then maybe kids would be better able to tell the different between pretend and reality.

And don't blame the parents for not giving their child a "sensible upbringing". Do you think the parents taught the child to point guns at people? Did they ever think that a situation like this could happen? Probably not.. and you probably wouldn't have thought of it either. Kids see people using guns and pointing them at people all the time.. it's all over the place--video games, television, movies.. the 6 o'clock news! So what are parents supposed to do short of not allowing their kids to be exposed to any of those things? And even if the parents don't allow their kids to watch television and whatnot, they'll still see it when they go to their friends houses, etc.
So yeah, I agree totally with this woman that toy guns should be banned--or at least made to look as unrealistic as possible.

I notice that one other people who said something that when they were littler they played with guns too , that applies to most of us. But we grew up in a whole different time. Things changed--a lot. And I'm sure that little boy who got shot would've grown up fine too..if he still had a chance to grow up.

P.S. I think going to the extreme of painting a gun to make it realistic would probably not happen, so I think that's a stupid argument, but the tip could be broken off on accident.

[Mr. Maul]

People these days! First they try to ban video games, now toy guns. What next, making it illegal to make the gun sign with your hand?!?
I'm John Stoffel, and I say, Give me a break!lol But seriously, that's just a little bit dumb.

[Harry]

[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by redsilhouettex [/i]
[B]There's no real reason why kids need toy guns. [/B][/QUOTE]
You don't absolutely need your computer either. Just because something isn't needed doesn't mean that we should just go ahead and get rid of it. Also things haven't changed that much at all, quit trying to deny kids some fun.

[redsilhouettex]

[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by Harry [/i]
[B]You don't absolutely need your computer either. Just because something isn't needed doesn't mean that we should just go ahead and get rid of it. Also things haven't changed that much at all, quit trying to deny kids some fun. [/B][/QUOTE]

i am not trying to deny children some fun, all i am saying is that i know that my daughter will not be allowed to play with any type of gun when she gets older, i think its to dangerous.

and you are absolutely correct i do not need my computer, i choose to have it. but there is a huge diffrence its not like u can kill a person with your computer, as with a gun all it takes is one touch and its --- over.

[pbfrontmanvdp]

[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by redsilhouettex [/i]
[B]i am not trying to deny children some fun, all i am saying is that i know that my daughter will not be allowed to play with any type of gun when she gets older, i think its to dangerous.

and you are absolutely correct i do not need my computer, i choose to have it. but there is a huge diffrence its not like u can kill a person with your computer, as with a gun all it takes is one touch and its --- over. [/B][/QUOTE]

True i understand what you mean by children not needing a toy gun, but then again look at the advertising and shows on T.V. These companies are literally brainwashing children in thinking guns are cool and they dont necessarily kill people. In ways they are right "toy guns" dont kill people, real guns do, but that doesnt mean that lady should bring up the topic of banning toy guns. That wont really solve anything since children will constantly see it all around them in one form or another.

Parents should kinda limit children at a certain age to not watch cartoons or whatever that have guns in them until the parents feel it is right time for the child to watch them when the child has fully understood what guns can really do to another person if fired upon in real life.

All of these problems can be solved with a simple one on one with a parent/parents and their child. Thats all it takes

[Harry]

[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by redsilhouettex [/i]
[B]i am not trying to deny children some fun, all i am saying is that i know that my daughter will not be allowed to play with any type of gun when she gets older, i think its to dangerous.

and you are absolutely correct i do not need my computer, i choose to have it. but there is a huge diffrence its not like u can kill a person with your computer, as with a gun all it takes is one touch and its --- over. [/B][/QUOTE]
I feel sorry for your future children. Your whole "it could possibly maybe hurt them" ideal will completely suck all fun from their lives.

[redsilhouettex]

[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by Harry [/i]
[B]I feel sorry for your future children. Your whole "it could possibly maybe hurt them" ideal will completely suck all fun from their lives. [/B][/QUOTE]


actully no it will not, children are able to have fun without toy guns. When i was younger i didnt run around playing with toy guns, and i had quite a bit of fun.

[Milliardo]

[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by Harry [/i]
[B]I feel sorry for your future children. Your whole "it could possibly maybe hurt them" ideal will completely suck all fun from their lives.[/B][/QUOTE]

[font=comic sans ms]So true. If you ban toy guns, why not ban violent cartoons anyway? Wow, look at that coyote banging that roadrunner with a large hammer! That's violent. We should ban that as well. Maybe we should ban anime as well--Gundam is bad for kids. It shows giant robots firing guns. Guns are bad. The series shows guns. Kids might imitate them. [i]ad infitum[/i]. You get the idea. My point is, we played with guns, we watched Warner Bros. cartoons when we were kids; did we turn out violent? Anyone here has suicidal or killer tendencies? It becomes silly when the logic becomes, "Guns are dangerous, even toy guns. They teach violence." No, they do not. It is [i]parental neglect[/i] which produces bad kids. You can have them have their toy guns without them turning violent, if only parents fulfill their duty as good parents, and not negligent ones. It is sad when these negligent parents take a 5-second spotlight at the center and blame media, video games, and other things when they're the ones who have not brought their children up very well, and so pass on the blame on others.[/font]

[stardust]

The parents may just as well have taught their kid to point a toy gun at people,think about it,the parent could've been joking around and pointed at somebody....you never know.They do try and ban everything,and everything is "bad" nowadays.I really hate that,my mother doesn't even let my brother watch Tom and Jerry cartoons because they're violent,but I think that's silly.What's teh kid gonna do?Get a giant hammer and go hit somebody?

[Transtic Nerve]

[quote][i]Originally posted by Randleman[/i]
[b]Yes America has a gun problem. But banning toy guns won't help. Toy guns don't kill, they get people killed. So if you want to ban something, ban the things that do the killing. Ban the guns.
[/b][/quote]

There's a method of banning. It takes steps. If you ban guns period, toy guns are going with it. Does UK sell any toy guns? I know real guns are banned there. Or they have very strict limitations. I'm curious to know if toy guns (the non-futuristic/alien type) are even sold there. I wouldn't think they are. One step at a time. Just like every other issue in america. You have to build up to the ultimate solution.

[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by Harry [/i]
[B]Just because a woman has some ridiculous reasoning inside of her head and wants to force everyone to obey her doesn't make her brave. [/B][/QUOTE]

You obviously failed to understand my point. It's not what she said that makes her brave, it's the fact she said it. Liek I said, she has more balls than anyone here. She's standing up for what she believes. She's not forcing anyone to do anything either. She is debating, she is putting out a possible solution, and she is giving her reasons as to why, what and how it should be done. No one else is. Thats for damn sure. She is recognizing a problem and offering a solution. Thats how things become better, you just can't ignore it like everyone thinks. Sorry people, thats not the way it works in the real world.

And for God's sake people. Look at yourselves lol. Banning toy guns will do absolutely NOTHING to children. They'll use their fingers if they have to, and if anything they'll spend their time doing something else, possibly something that involves more intelligence than running around pretending to shoot the neighbour boy. Girls don't typically play with toy guns and they seem to grow up perfectly fine. So please explain why we absolutely MUST have toy guns in our children's lives? Please... don't have children, this country is bad enough without you as a parent.

[Milliardo]

[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by Transtic Nerve [/i]
[B]Banning toy guns will do absolutely NOTHING to children.[/b][/quote]

[font=comic sans ms]It's not the banning of toy guns [i]per se[/i] that's troubling, but the logical next step that comes with it. What repercussions would toy gun banning entail? Would it mean banning violent cartoons as well, as I have mentioned? Banning toy guns is just a step towards that, and if someone would take that logical next step, anime would face the prospect of being banned. And I am sure you wouldn't want that to happen (or else it would be questionable why we're on this message board in the first place).[/font]

[quote][b]Girls don't typically play with toy guns and they seem to grow up perfectly fine.[/B][/QUOTE]

[font=comic sans ms]The same can be said about guys then. We seem to have grown fine [i]with[/i] toy guns in hand. It has little to do with toy guns, and much more to do with parental responsibility. A negiigent and irresponsible parent will certainly raise the same kind of child, and maybe even worse. The logic behind banning toy guns is the supposed reason that it makes "violent" children. But what makes a child? The toys he possess, or the upbringing he had? Many would agree it's the latter, and not much of the former. Again, it all comes down to parental responsibility, nothing more. Even without toy guns, a negligent parent will still turn up an irresponsible and maybe even a criminal child.[/font]

[b][quote]Please... don't have children, this country is bad enough without you as a parent.[/quote][/b]

[font=comic sans ms]Then we are to assume then that you will not let your children share your joy in watching anime, or at least those that you would deem as violent like Gundam and the like, since they involve guns and shooting each other an whatnot? And we can add in as well American cartoons, like Warner Bros. and others which, by the way, show much more graphic violence than your average anime. Please explain to us why most of us have turned out fine watching those cartoons, when the reasoning behind this is that it [i]might[/i] turn kids violent?[/font]

[G/S/B Master]

[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by BlackDragon465 [/i]
[B]Yep society sucks these days. I just can't belive I can' buy a rated M game without being asked for my damn age and giving them proof. Sadly I am not old enough to be 18. I mean who gives damn if they sell rated M games to a 4 yr old? Sadly this dissapoints me of having such an idiotic people living these days. But those assholes can't stop me from buying M rated games. I just get parents credit card and order them online although I would really like to be able to just go to a store and get them there..:) [/B][/QUOTE]



Lol, your life must've suck. Where I live, I can get any kind of game I want ( except adult rated games ).


Toy guns banned??? That'd be a crazy world. I can't play with my water gun!!!! ( Yes I do use it so I can bother my sis with lol ) But jeez. Banning toy guns isn't going to do anything. You see guns on TV, cartoons, and anime. There's no stopping children from using/seeing a gun.

[Transtic Nerve]

[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by Milliardo [/i]
[B][font=comic sans ms]It's not the banning of toy guns [i]per se[/i] that's troubling, but the logical next step that comes with it. What repercussions would toy gun banning entail? Would it mean banning violent cartoons as well, as I have mentioned? Banning toy guns is just a step towards that, and if someone would take that logical next step, anime would face the prospect of being banned. And I am sure you wouldn't want that to happen (or else it would be questionable why we're on this message board in the first place).[/font][/b][/quote]

I could really care less is anime was banned. But anime doesn't kill anyone. It's pretty obvious that if that boy didn't have the toy gun he would have not been shot. What if he was holding anime, would he have still been shot? lol exactly. It may be a bad comparison, but so is comparing anime to guns... horrible comparison.... the fact is, guns are useless... they serve one purpose and one purpose only... to kill/harm/injur/the likes there of... they don't do anything else. Anime on the other hand does none of that.

If I made another reason why toy guns should be banned would it make a difference? please. The real reason anyone is arguing this is because they don't think toy guns should be banned. Don't give me that BS about the reason why... Don't listen to reason and ban them anyway if that's your excuse.


[b][quote][font=comic sans ms]The same can be said about guys then. We seem to have grown fine [i]with[/i] toy guns in hand. It has little to do with toy guns, and much more to do with parental responsibility. A negiigent and irresponsible parent will certainly raise the same kind of child, and maybe even worse. The logic behind banning toy guns is the supposed reason that it makes "violent" children. But what makes a child? The toys he possess, or the upbringing he had? Many would agree it's the latter, and not much of the former. Again, it all comes down to parental responsibility, nothing more. Even without toy guns, a negligent parent will still turn up an irresponsible and maybe even a criminal child.[/font][/b][/quote]

Yes guys grow up fine with toy guns... shooting people in schools... robbing the Quickymart, shooting other kids, having 11 millions deaths per year being gun related... if thats what you call fine.

I do agree, it is parents. So then if you aren't gonna ban toy guns, ban people from having kids! China kind of did it! Ofcourse that would take away from your right to be idiotic and breed. Only 10% of the people int his country should breed, but it's never those 10%, it's always those stupid people who can't take care of themselves, let alone a child, that have kids. And they end up with 4 of them! How does this happen? If thats your reasoning, then do something about it instead of arguing over toy guns... argue over stupid parents. Then do something about it. I do... I make sure my brother takes care of his daughter... and I'm making sure I never have kids.

[quote][b][font=comic sans ms]Then we are to assume then that you will not let your children share your joy in watching anime, or at least those that you would deem as violent like Gundam and the like, since they involve guns and shooting each other an whatnot? And we can add in as well American cartoons, like Warner Bros. and others which, by the way, show much more graphic violence than your average anime. Please explain to us why most of us have turned out fine watching those cartoons, when the reasoning behind this is that it [i]might[/i] turn kids violent?[/font] [/B][/QUOTE]

I never said anything about cartoons. Not that I plan to have kids, and even if i did, I wouldn't let them watch that Gundam crap either.... or the WB stuff where Bugs Bunny shoots someone in the crowd, everytime I see that I start yelling. I can't understand why they leave that ont he air and blame the columbine shootings on Marilyn Manson and Rammstein.... stupid american press.

I personally don't think toy guns do anything possitive for a child.... I can't come up with anything, can you?... whiel cartoon on the other hand provide a level of entertainment in a fasion suitable for a child. I don't expect nor would I want my child watching a mature cartoon, such as MANY anime shows. Just because they are animated DOES NOT make them for children.

Now like I have said and I'll say again, I think parents need to control watch over and teach their kids that this is not real. TV shows are fake... they need to teach them to never use a gun, never use a knife.... not untill they are old enough to realize the consiquences it might have. Which is usually not till like 12 in most cases it seems.

I will agree with your only point about parents. I will not agree with your other statements cause I think they are rather inconcievable and missunderstood. I'm not here saying to ban toy guns, all I'm saying is someone needs to take some action... whatever it is, andif banning toy guns is that action then so be it. You all should have acted earlier.

PS that "don't become a parent" thing was directed at people who fail to realize we have a problem, or fail to do anythign about it.

[Harry]

[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by Transtic Nerve [/i]
[B]
You obviously failed to understand my point. It's not what she said that makes her brave, it's the fact she said it. Liek I said, she has more balls than anyone here. She's standing up for what she believes. She's not forcing anyone to do anything either. She is debating, she is putting out a possible solution, and she is giving her reasons as to why, what and how it should be done. No one else is. Thats for damn sure. She is recognizing a problem and offering a solution. Thats how things become better, you just can't ignore it like everyone thinks. Sorry people, thats not the way it works in the real world.[/b][/quote]
You're only saying she is brave because she is saying something that you agree with. If I were to say something along the lines that all gays should be imprisoned because a small percentage commit crimes you wouldn't be calling me brave for recognizing a problem

[quote][b]And for God's sake people. Look at yourselves lol. Banning toy guns will do absolutely NOTHING to children. They'll use their fingers if they have to, and if anything they'll spend their time doing something else, possibly something that involves more intelligence than running around pretending to shoot the neighbour boy. Girls don't typically play with toy guns and they seem to grow up perfectly fine. So please explain why we absolutely MUST have toy guns in our children's lives? Please... don't have children, this country is bad enough without you as a parent. [/B][/QUOTE] The thing is if we ban something just because this woman wants it, then other things will become banned also for just as shaky of a reason as hers.

[Milliardo]

[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by Transtic Nerve [/i]
[B]I could really care less is anime was banned. But anime doesn't kill anyone.[/b][/quote]

[font=comic sans ms]So does toy guns, last I checked.[/font]

[quote][b]It's pretty obvious that if that boy didn't have the toy gun he would have not been shot.[/b][/quote]

[font=comic sans ms]It's more the misjudgment of those who shot at him. Now, I do not know the circumstances about the boy and the gun, but let us assume the boy is someone who is 10 years old. Would cops think that someone that age will seriously even consider killing a cop? Descretion should also be used by police in such cases, and the first thing cops should do is to disarm a person, not outright kill him.[/font]

[quote][b]It may be a bad comparison, but so is comparing anime to guns.[/b][/quote]

[font=comic sans ms]Not really. What we're behind here is the logic of the move. The premise is that guns kill. We can take it a step further and ask the next question: where did kids learn that guns can kill? Of course, from what they see, such as anime, video games and the like. So put two and two together, and we see where the logic heads to then: children watch TV, see guns, and wants a gun. Children play guns, [i]ergo[/i] media shows bad influence. Let's ban those that show such bad influence on children then. And get rid as well of those associated with those influences, like merchandise that comes with it--guns, toys, etc. It's a progression of logic that knows no end, and you can see that it won't stop just at toy guns, but they'll go further to where they think the "source" of violence comes from, and that would be media.[/font]

[quote][b]Don't give me that BS about the reason why.[/b][/quote]

[font=comic sans ms]The logic behind it has everything to do with the issue. Why would a ban be called if there's no reason behind it? That would be senseless, and few people will support senseless issues. But make it something bigger, to add more weight, or some semblance of it anyway, then you have a cause, even if the logic is faulty.[/font]

[quote][b]Yes guys grow up fine with toy guns... shooting people in schools... robbing the Quickymart, shooting other kids, having 11 millions deaths per year being gun related... if thats what you call fine.[/b][/quote]

[font=comic sans ms]No, your examples show that those who do such things lack parental support and guidance when they were young. Most people who grew up and played toy guns and the like led normal lives, have a family, have decent jobs, and they have kids who also play with toy guns. And those kids will grow up to be like their parents, provided the parents continue that guidance that they had.[/font]

[quote][b]If thats your reasoning, then do something about it instead of arguing over toy guns.[/b][/quote]

[font=comic sans ms]That's your reasoning (preventing people from having kids), not mine.[/font]

[quote][b]Then do something about it. I do... I make sure my brother takes care of his daughter... and I'm making sure I never have kids.[/b][/quote]

[font=comic sans ms]No, that's the prerogative of individuals, not for the state to decide. Parental guidance is a personal decision, unless you want a police state where everything must be regulated by the state.[/font]

[pbfrontmanvdp]

[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by Transtic Nerve [/i]
[B]
I will agree with your only point about parents. I will not agree with your other statements cause I think they are rather inconcievable and missunderstood. I'm not here saying to ban toy guns, all I'm saying is someone needs to take some action... whatever it is, andif banning toy guns is that action then so be it. You all should have acted earlier.
[/B][/QUOTE]

I dont think he was saying that anime kills children, just the childs constant state of watching cartoons or whatever on T.V. with guns in them through his developement as an adolescent affects them mentally.

So i guess im done talking about the toy gun issue since i already know it will never get banned and i still think there fine, just play with them in the house.

On the other hand:

I agree with you that someone has to take action, so the government should take more action on making it harder to buy a gun if not make it illegal for average person to buy one. I think the whole "self defense" thing is kinda getting out of hand. Like you said before on 11 million deaths each year, well its from children picking up their father's hand gun in the "secret hiding" spots. I think its sick how easy it is to buy a gun, it basically takes as long as for someone to kill someone with one. I know that may sound sad, but its true. All these after market places dont even do full profiling backrounds when selling guns to people. How can they live with the fact of not knowing who they really are and what they might be doing with that gun?

Even though i love the sport and all and its my favorite thing to do, if they ever wanted to they should ban paintball as well. With the police videos and all that i have seen recently its made me second guess why its not required to have a license for one. Just to see kids shoot them out of car windows at random people is just scary and to know a child might be seeing that on T.V. scares me half to death. Im a responible adult when it comes to using my paintball gun and to see someone do something like that disgraces the sport. Whatever happen to those kids they deserved what they got and should probably get an even harsher punishment.

Soon America is going to be one whole constant cavity search, in each place we go in. Its sad to see how such a device such as this can bring down a powerful country so fast, but like what great politicians in the past have said "Democracy is a really bad form of government, but its better than all the others."

Anyway though i like talking to you transtic. Everytime you say something you put a lot of deep thought/time into your replys unlike a lot of other people (even though a lot of people have put a lot of deep thought into this one such as milliardo.)

[Chaos]

Oh my God! What kind of world is it when our children can't grow up playing cops and robbers?! First it's the GTA series, now it's Nerf guns! Insanity! Well, I suppose we're looking out for the family. Never mind the stem-cell research or an alternative to stem-cell research that could cure many, many diseases/disformities! Let's spend valuable time, money, and effort on ******** that some dumb broad thought up just to get her face on TV!

Long live the Free Media. -_-;;

If you can't see through the sarcasm, get some glasses.

[Transtic Nerve]

[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by Harry [/i]
[B]You're only saying she is brave because she is saying something that you agree with. If I were to say something along the lines that all gays should be imprisoned because a small percentage commit crimes you wouldn't be calling me brave for recognizing a problem[/B][/QUOTE]

But thats not a problem. It's not somethng thats out of control. A problem means something that needs to be fixed, thus something is wrong, something has exceeded the limitations.... The gun/murder rate in this country is a problem. It has become out of control. A small percentage of gay peopel committing crimes is not out of control, hence your use of "small percentage"... Usually you make at least some sense in your posts, that however didn't make any. Banning toy guns may not be the answer, as i've said in all my posts, I'm not here to say that we should.... I'm just saying, we HAVE to do something.... we HAVE to.... and if nothing lese will be done, than toy guns should be banned. Thats what happens when people ignore a problem, things they don't want happens. Kinda like how we ignored the fact Saddam Hussein was killing Kurds and gave him chemical weapons. And then it got out of hand and we had to go into Iraq and stop him, even though alot of people in this world, including myself, didn't want it.

Milliardo, I know what your saying and I agree for the most part.... but like I said... action needs to be taken. And no one else is doing it, so something must be done, however extreme it may be. I'm not justifying this woman's reasons, I really could care less... as you notice I mention little about her reasons in this thread, and more on my own reasons why we should ban toy guns, guns, and the fact we have a gun problem in this country that desperately needs to be dealt with. If it's gun, if it's bad parenting, whatever. SOMETHING needs to be done. I'm sure you can agree... yet... you give no solutions to the problem. This woman is at least providing a solution to the problem. She at least CARES, thats more than what I can say about alot of other people in this country. She cares enough to the point where she is willing to stand up and provide a some sort of solution, no matter how radical it is.... you do know that the colonies standing up to Great Britian for independence was a radical idea too. Look how that turned out. You never know what will happen. I also personally believe kids wouldn't care if toy guns were banned. I really don't see any purpose in having kids play cops and robbers or shoot em up or whatever... they can find billions of other things to do, one little game or so won't kill em, unlike guns, which will kill them.

pbfrontmanvdp, thank you. I try to put as much time and thought into my posts. Even if I agree or disgree and I respect others who do the same, even if i dusagree with them. I just try to say what I believe and what I think and attempt to back it up with some sort of relevant issues and facts.