Anime The Utter Incompetance of Adults

[LetalisNox]

I find it very fascinating that in Gundam Wing, (more so than in any of the other Gundam sagas) the role of teenagers, some of them mere children in physical age, as saviors of the world is very pronounced and treated as the far more normal than reason should allow. The oldest main character in the entire story is Treize, and he barely makes the cut at twenty-four. But even he ends up dying by the time the series reaches its end, as does most every other adult in Gundam Wing, leaving the young ones to fight big wars by themselves. From fifteen-year-old assassins (Heero) to nineteen-year-old world conquerors (Zechs), to sixteen-year-old Vice Ministers (Relena) teenagers, in all their horomonal turmoil and utter inability to sort out their emotions and world views, are given the reigns of society itself. The biggest kick in the rear end was the appearance of Mariemaia in Endless Waltz, an eight-year-old proclaiming herself to be ruler of the world. (Predictably, Treize's bastard daughter; God, why can't the man just DIE?)

What does this mean? Are these children (orphans, wanderers, outcasts, all of them) merely being manipulated by their elders into fighting a war that the more distiguished aristocrats are loathe to fight? If so, why does it seem as if everyone is balancing their very hopes and dreams on these teens, including battlefield, political, and socially crucial issues? These kids are still just that, kids, no matter how mature they seem and the things they've been through. I really doubt I'd want my world's fate decided by a morally ambiguous teenager with a nine-millimeter in his shorts.

Is there a message in Gundam Wing (however unintended) about the value of youth's opinions in today's world? In society today, people believe that well-aged and experienced men (and occasionally, women) are best suited to run things. Yet, look at Gundam Wing: The well-aged die off (profusely) leaving their kids to sort things out as best they can. The ones that remain are power-hungry wanna-be dictators (General Septum, Duke Dermail, Quinze Barton, Dekim Barton) that think they know it all, when in essence, they know nothing. Even the ones that mean well enough (Howard, General Noventa, the scientists) can only support the kids in their battles, and not go for the fight themselves.

Kind of long, there, but I seriously must ask: Is Gundam Wing really a tribute to the utter incompetance of most, if not all, adults? When it boils right down to worldwide chaos, who should we turn to for guidance? Fellow otakus? Your thoughts.[QUOTE]Find me a man, and I'll show you a fool crafted by a foolish society. Find me a child, and I'll show you redemption for us all.[/QUOTE]

[Domon]

Gundam Wing is just an anime with no real morale it was just made to entertain gundam fans and get people into anime. Yeesh I didn't know people loved to disect things down to where they are basically degrading the show.

[LetalisNox]

Gah, the dissection's just for fun. Jeez, we all need a hobby, lay off. Keeps my mind off college exams.

[DuoNDscythe]

Hey that was great thinking, this coming from an egoist and selfproclaimed biggest Gundam Wing Fan of all time. I would never have personally thought of that being 15 but I think in Japan the teens are more to the type of young adults, around the age of Treize in America. I hope you catch my point. By the way notice that General Septum, Duke Dermail, Quinze Barton, Dekim Barton, Howard, General Noventa, and the scientists are all old men unlike the ones that die( Treize, and Milliardo) But as for Mareimaia I have no clue, but hey they have prearranged marraiges all the time at 2 and 3.

[Shy]

[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by LetalisNox [/i]
[B]Is there a message in Gundam Wing (however unintended) about the value of youth's opinions in today's world? In society today, people believe that well-aged and experienced men (and occasionally, women) are best suited to run things. Yet, look at Gundam Wing: The well-aged die off (profusely) leaving their kids to sort things out as best they can. The ones that remain are power-hungry wanna-be dictators (General Septum, Duke Dermail, Quinze Barton, Dekim Barton) that think they know it all, when in essence, they know nothing. Even the ones that mean well enough (Howard, General Noventa, the scientists) can only support the kids in their battles, and not go for the fight themselves.

Kind of long, there, but I seriously must ask: Is Gundam Wing really a tribute to the utter incompetance of most, if not all, adults? When it boils right down to worldwide chaos, who should we turn to for guidance? Fellow otakus? Your thoughts. [/B][/QUOTE]
[size=1]This was a great post LetalisNox. Welcome to OB, I hope this is the first of many intelligent topics.

One of the main things about Endless Waltz was that everyone was trying to prevent a war on Earth. The war between the Colonies and Earth was so terrible and horiffic that humanity was forced to create lasting peace. War was over, for everyone, including the soldiers. But a soldier will always be a soldier, and the urge to fight will remain with them until the day they die.

Our only real hope to create peace lies with the next generation. The Gundam pilots, Zechs and even Relena represent the last generation of warriors. Their lives have been set into place long ago by their parents and guardians, especially with Heero and Relena. They have very little control over their own fate, but can radically change things for future generations. In the long run that's how it is for everything.

We can only improve our own lives so much, but our hopes for the future can be limitless. Children are the future, and their unlimited potential can make them as great or as weak a leader as they want to be. That's what "coming of age" is all about, and that's why most of the characters are adolescents. (That and they look good in bathing suits, anyway...) They are at the age where they will decide about what they are going to do with their life; how they are going to change the world, for better or for worse.

I don't see Gundam Wing as an epic "Parents are lame," story, but one could definitely interpret it that way.

-Shy[/size]

[Marik_Duelist]

parents can be ok....but i dont wanna be one and i dont wanna grow up.....waah...in september im 21....wheres that anti aging cream gone????

[Katana]

I think the reason for so many teenaged heros is because that's where the widest audience is. It also gives us a good title. ^^

[conpiracymonki]

[b][size=1]
*wanders into Gundam forum for no reason whatsoever*

You know, I don't think I ever thought of that o.O'
But yeah. I think Shy's right and it's really mainly what he said, about the whole 'we're the next generation; we're the future' theme going on through the series.

But yeah. Maybe there's a hidden theme about purity and children going on too, I guess.[/b]

Teenager main characters are easier to relate to also, and it keeps a little extra attention in.

*wanders off and out the forum again*[/size]

[WolfofDarkstar]

man i never thought about any of that. but if u think about it, it makes a lot of sense that the gundam pilots would be teenagers (even some of the political leaders). the army would never suspect teens to be soldiers (especally such hardcore soldiers) and would then not bother looking for people in that age group. as for relena being a political its only because its more likly that a younger generation would be more likly to listen to someone closer to their age.



p.s.
ignore all the spelling mistakes

[IkkiMechaPilot]

Ok i have one theroy that i doubt everyone will see as a working theroy at least at first but here it is; the mental facilities of a child are much more powerful than an adults yet a child isnt realy for combat simply cause they are still mentaly developing while a teen is still young enough to have a high mental capacity while they are developed enough to deal with battle and secondly they still have their youth in that they have faster reaction times and are less likely to have any sort of physical problem. This theroy isnt put into words well right now but ill try and work on it when its not 4 in the morning.

[WolfofDarkstar]

that actually makes a lot of sense. however thats not completely true. after a person reaches a certan age the amount of information they can learn becomes far more limited. in fact its only when your a little kid that you still have the ability to be anything (sorry to be a downer). after a while somethings are much easier than others. so the gundam pilots would have had to be trained close to there whole lives on just learning in order for them to still be able to learn on that level.

[DuoNDscythe]

As you may recall, Heero was trained from childhood. That's why he(with the exception of Trowa, who fought in Leo since as far back as he can remember) is the only one who has no feelings. Duo, Quatre(especially), and Wufei have all had emotional experiences outside of battle which led to their being incomplete as soldiers. Plus each pilot has his special abilities which compensates for the things that are easier to do at the coming of age.

[Luminaire]

[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by Shy [/i]
[B][size=1]This was a great post LetalisNox. Welcome to OB, I hope this is the first of many intelligent topics.

One of the main things about Endless Waltz was that everyone was trying to prevent a war on Earth. The war between the Colonies and Earth was so terrible and horiffic that humanity was forced to create lasting peace. War was over, for everyone, including the soldiers. But a soldier will always be a soldier, and the urge to fight will remain with them until the day they die.

Our only real hope to create peace lies with the next generation. The Gundam pilots, Zechs and even Relena represent the last generation of warriors. Their lives have been set into place long ago by their parents and guardians, especially with Heero and Relena. They have very little control over their own fate, but can radically change things for future generations. In the long run that's how it is for everything.

We can only improve our own lives so much, but our hopes for the future can be limitless. Children are the future, and their unlimited potential can make them as great or as weak a leader as they want to be. That's what "coming of age" is all about, and that's why most of the characters are adolescents. (That and they look good in bathing suits, anyway...) They are at the age where they will decide about what they are going to do with their life; how they are going to change the world, for better or for worse.

I don't see Gundam Wing as an epic "Parents are lame," story, but one could definitely interpret it that way.

-Shy[/size] [/B][/QUOTE]

[color=crimson]I definitely agree with you Shy. We are the future, and I'm more than alittle afraid of how it's going to turn out. I know people who laugh at tragic scenes in movies where a soldier will fall down dead in a puddle of his own blood in order to save the life of his best friend. I had a friend who wrote a poem on this, the last stanza always stays with me:[/color]
"And I?
I was crying
I was sobbing
For the death of my generation."
[color=crimson]The very last line was my idea. At the same time, I was writing a poem called "So Young" and it was based off of Gundam Wing. Last stanza also makes the biggest point:[/color]
"They are heroes
They are soldiers
They are terrorists
They are murderers
They are only fifteen years old."
[color=crimson]I wonder if maybe Gundam Wing was aimed towards an adult audience to show where the future might end up. Child murdering adult diplomats without even flinching. But, then again, if you really think about it, is it not a great strategy for war? Yes, very sad, but most people don't want to kill children, thus the children run free to kill. If the deceit and dark traits of the human soceity grow even more, this is where war will end up. Sad, ne?

~Lumi ^_^[/color]

[DVL]

I think it's because children are more open-minded than adults. By the time people become adults I think their beliefs are pretty much decided already, and they aren't likely to change. So if a war starts they're going to be on the same side they've always been on. Whereas children are more likely to accept new opinions on the matter, sometimes even if the adults in their life say otherwise. That's why the Gundam pilots all had different beliefs than most of the adults. The adults were supporting the same ideas they'd always believed in, because they were sure they were right and didn't want to listen to anyone else's opinion. (Okay, so only SOME adults are like that in real life...)

Though, I think Mariemaia was pushing that a little bit. An 8-year-old is kind of extreme.

[Trowa_fan]

Okay I'd like to clear this up:
Mariama is young yes.
But a warlord? No.
Actually it was Dekim Barton telling her what to do and what to bileive.

[Vash's girl]

About the warlord phsycho kids, that's how it is in japan and china (I believe) I don't wanna swear to it. But I think that kids are brought up that way, to kill without thinking about it. It's sad. That's how it was during the wars i know. I think they made the pilots so young so the viewers could relate to the pilots. I don't wanna watch a whole bunch of 40 or 50 year olds drive a gundam. I want sexy teens! LOL But really, kids were fighting wars and professional soldiers in their late teens in the east so, i guess that's my point.

[Luminaire]

[color=crimson]But, wait, throughout history aren't there cases of teenagers and children as rulers of empires and warlords and what-nots. King Tut for example. How old was he when he came into rule of Egypt. The Japanese emperor who began the Meiji Era was only 15. There are others too. So why is it so far-fetched for an 8-year-old girl to want to take over the world?

Was it Alexander the Great who started taking over land around the age of 15 or am I thinking of someone else?

~Lumi ^_^[/color]

[Guest agent_two]

Didn't Chang have a wife (Nataku (sp?)?) before he left his colony with Shenlong?

[WolfofDarkstar]

yes he did. she died trying to protect the shenlong. so acording to wufie her spirit lives in it. by the way her real wasnt nataku she just called herself that.

[Cahoots34]

[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by Luminaire [/i]
[B][color=crimson] So why is it so far-fetched for an 8-year-old girl to want to take over the world?
[/color] [/B][/QUOTE]

The reason it's so farfetched for this particular 8-year-old-girl to want to take over the world is because she has no obvious legitimate reason for doing so, other than that she is controlled as a convenient figurehead by her conniving grandfather. Her promotiton ideals she doesn't fully understand (ideals that were left her by a father she never met because he let himself be killed by one of her most vital allies) through highly brilliant yet unethical and technically hypocritical means leads me to believe that Marimaia is one of the most tragically misled characters in all anime. (And when considering the general amount of warped ideals in the genre, that's saying something.) Perhaps it isn't _so_ farfetched for an 8-year-old to be used, as Marimaia is, to attempt world domination, but it _would_ be rather remarkable for said child to claim a solid, independent credo for doing so. 8-year-olds, while being sharp as anything, are still generally very impressionable, and this overeager acceptance of Dekim's control and Treize's terrifically abstruse ideals is eventually what proves to be her downfall.

[Qukey]

How would an 8 years old want to take over the world? She doesn't, but someone behind her would love to shape the world in his view.

There is a character named Mineba Zabi from Zeta Gundam and sort of from Gundam ZZ. She is 8 years old heir of the Zabi family and Duchy of Zeon. Her entire family was killed around the time of the OYW. She ecaped the battlefield with her mother but the mother passed away soon after. The Kahn family on Axis raises her as the future regent of the Zeon. In the care of Harma Kahn, Mineba is taught to be the rightful ruler of Zeon and she shall have her revenge on the Earth Federation in the future. Furthermore, she shall librate the spacenoid with the ideal of Zeon. I am sure that is the origin of Mariemaia of GW.

Mariemaia is a very spoilled kid. She is educated in a way to believe she is right. She is also educated to believe she has the right to rule over others because she has a grandfather who believe only in his own ideal. Similar to how Harma drives Mineba to the edge, Mariemaia is taught to believe in her right as a ruler of the world because she has the "royal" blood, like Mineba. Mariemaia, again, like Mineba, is not more than a tool for others to gain power.

Also, why choose Mariemaia? Mariemaia is the perfect idol for people to worship, at least in the AC timeline. In many Gundam series, there are queens instead of kings as queens are easier for people to fell in love as long as they are beautiful and elegent. This is quite clearly stated in Gundam F91 and Victory Gundam. So, Mariemaia is good because she is a daughter. Now, her father has a lot of followers and those followers are highly likely to follow her, not her grandfather. To use her as the figure head, her grandfather gains quite a number of support without doing anything else. Since this is part of the AC timeline, people are tend to believe in people who are young. Relena as queen and a high rank officer of the government proves the point clearly. So, an 8 years old leader must be ideal in the world.

[WolfofDarkstar]

You know in Japenese History (even European History) there have been rulers that were young (like 10, 12 something like that). Also in old Japan when you turned 15 you were considered an adult. So whats wrong with an 8 year old showing anicuitive?

[Qukey]

If I remember right, there are Chinese empires in Han who are just a few months old. Many are considered adults when they reach 14 or 15 because their average lifespan is only 45 years old.

It is not problem for a 8 years old who wants to rule the world but does every 8 years old has an army to archieve her goal? An 8 years old doesn't know how to organize a real army big enough to be a threat. There must be someone who shares the ambition who would use her as a figurehead and shares his army with her to archieve his goal.