Gay Marraige?

[Sara]

[size=1]SadClown, I believe you're missing the point. You really don't need to be so belligerent. I'm going to ask that if you'd like to argue with Justin, you do so somewhere other than this thread. Thank you.[/size]

[Justin]

I'll leave that up to someone else to decide. Since I participated in it. There are plenty here capable of doing so.

This is the last thing I'll say for this little debate between you and me, and I'll leave you to yourself. Who's really covering their own behind? You say you were trying to show how contradictory Christianity can be, but you didn't. I explained it as easily as I've ever explained anything. I presented the facts, as best as I could, and tried to be up front and forward about everything I said. I made no petty comments on phrases you use, or how I inadequate you were...any and all of that was done by you.

I even went so far as to apologize for offending you(that, by the way, was sincere and still is).

Anyway, I am sorry for offending you. You haven't offended me, though, so no worries there. God bless.

-Justin

[DarK DeatH]

[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by SadClown [/i]
[B]Btw, I think it's "Christianty" not "Christianism". [/B][/QUOTE]
Whatever... That doesn't matter at all...
Also, how can you judge what is "righteousness" and what is not? So I believe everyone is up to their own opinion of what is right and what is not... I have nothing against homossexuals, as long as they are not the kind to flirt with you even knowing you don't like it... It can be quite annoying... But I believe that, if man and woman were created, it would be like, not right to put man with man or woman with woman... That's my opinion though...

[eleanor]

[size=1] My mother is dead-set against homosexuals, and she hates the fact that some anime I watch was homosexuality in it. I don't blame her, since she's a very devoted Christian whereas I'm an Athiest (sh, don't tell her!), but I beleive that Christians shouldn't try to force ideas on other people by trying to stop gay marriage.[/size]

[Transtic Nerve]

Lets leave this thread on GAY marriages, not whats wrong or right with christianity shall we? Thank you

Anyway, for me, and the majority of gay people I know, marriage isn't about a religious thing, it's about the show of love. By denying us the right to marry, the government is basically saying that love between two people of the same sex cannot exist, which is 100% false. I've felt it, it's real. It's real just as much as God exists. I hope the government isn't letting me cry over what can't exist. I hope the government isn't letting me feel something that does not exist.

Also for alot of us, we just want to have the partner benefits that come with marriage. When i die I don't want my money, my belongings going to some family member I may not like... I want it to go to the people I love, or person i love. Under current laws, if I die, my partner would get nothing. It would all go to my family. And my family could decide if they wanted to leave what I asked to my husband or boyfriend or whatever. If my family didn't like the fact I was gay or the person I was with, they could take everythign we owned away from him. Thats not right.

We want tax bebfits, insurance benefits. It's not right that just because I love a MAN that I cannot get the same treatment as some hick joe who lives in the boondocks gets when he married his sister in vegas.

This country is only a free country if you're white, straight, and male. It certainly will never be free if we can't even let two guys or two girls get married. What kind of f-ed up place is this? People who disagree aren't american. Anyone who's a true american believes in the right to be free, to have free speach, to have a free life, to be free to love whoever the F you want. If you don't believe in freedom, you're not American. You're anti-american. You should leave this country and stop ruining what it stands for.

America.... 'land of the free' my ***. And it certainly has NOTHING to do with religion. Do those people even know what the constitution is? lol. I mean, seriously. If you think this country should be run on religious ideals, you should be shot. Seperation of church and state my friends. Freedome of religion my friends. You are not american my friends.

[DeathKnight]

[color=crimson]I honestly dont see why they should be stopped from marrying. What harm can it do? If we allow them to, then we are just keeping with the basic premise that this land is one of supposed freedom for all types of men, all with different ideals, all with different opinons- all of them to be able to beleive what they want, and practice it. Why should homosexuals be different?

Also what it says in the Bible was meant for the Jews and the Gentiles that soon followed- Not for modern day polotics. If you are Christian, then thats fine- but meshing Polotics and Idiotic Religion together isnt the way of a democracy, lol.

Come on America.. Where have we gone.[/color]

[Guest Zeh]

I'm pretty sure you're allowed to be legally married to the same sex, here in Nova Scota, Canada. I was reading in the paper a little while ago, that the bill (or law, or whatever it was) was passed.

Canada's a free country :-P

[PiroMunkie]

[size=1]*hugs Transtic tightly*

... Wait... Can I do that here? *rolls eyes*

Thank you for putting into words what I could not. I stand right next to you on your opinion.[/size]

[Kent]

On a ethical and moral level I have no problems at all with the gay population of America engaging in the act of marriage.

I also support the right to do so. (contrary to what the liberals who know me may think of this old conservative.)

However, one part of my support is also based on the better good for the country...

That being the tax break these hard working (gay) Americans could recieve if they were to become married.

Then on the moral level I believe it is alright for these people to become married for two reasons.
1. Each man or woman of this great land should be entitled to all and any rights that any other citizen shall recieve.
2. The very heart of any marriage is the bond between the two people marrying. As long as both partners honor this commitment, the institution of marriage will be as strong and honest as it ever was.

Well that says it all for me. (or close to all)

[SadClown]

I would also like to make one final comment. I'm not trying to berate Christianity in anyway, nor am I saying it is any less valid than anyone elses religion. But religion should not and does not have a place in deciding a debate like this. Personal beliefs are subjective and not shared by everyone in the world and therefore should not be included in this discussion. I thought it was rude how Justin said that if two gay people were to get married, they should not be [B]IGNORANT[/B] and think that it was approved by his God. I considor that to be flamming and just as bad as insulting someone directly, which I did not do, although everyone seems to think I did. If he feels he should be allowed to say something about Christianity and Christian beliefs, than i should as well.

Then it occured to me that the moderators here seem to get away with a lot more than everyone else does. For example, and I hope that he doesn't take this personally at all becuase I agreed with 100% of his post, but Transtic Nerve used several cuss words as well as said that "If you think this country should be run on religious ideals, you should be shot." Eventhough I agree, but not nearly to that extreme a point, that is way worse than anything I said. If you can't hold every member of this board to the same standards, then you need to rethink your rules or those who enforce them. So those were my gripes and now that I've said them, I won't bring them back up.

[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by DarK DeatH [/i]
[B]Also, how can you judge what is "righteousness" and what is not?[/B][/QUOTE]

You can't and thats the point I was making.

[Guest cloricus]

I support non-religious weddings but I would have to be strongly against for example a gay Christian marriage. Not because I believe in the religion strongly but because of the situation being hypocritical.

eps

[RequiemofaDream]

I was reading the wording for a bill passed recently, im not sure whether it was state or what, but it legalized gay marraiges. most conservatives were fighting it with this idea: the exact same wording of the bill could also be used to explain and legalize every sort of marraige or sexual act.

some people find gays to be disgusting, some don't. many consider a fifty year old marrying a 12 year old to be disgusting, a few don't. brother marrying sister, father marrying daughter, age differences, who knows, specie differences (!?), all could happen eventually, and legalizing gay marraiges would be the first step toward that. if the government is saying "your personal life, who you choose to have sex with and get married too is the business of the partners and no one else", well, it can go so many ways....

which isn't to say i don't support it, i do. but still...

[Harry]

[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by GoKents [/i]
[B]
That being the tax break these hard working (gay) Americans could recieve if they were to become married. [/B][/QUOTE]
Married couples don't recieve tax breaks, it's more like increases.

[Star I Am Not]

[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by RequiemofaDream [/i]
[B]if the government is saying "your personal life, who you choose to have sex with and get married too is the business of the partners and no one else", well, it can go so many ways....[/QUOTE]

...Drawing the line at adultry, of course. ^_~

ALl I have to say on the subject is, I support gay marriages. I'm bi, but even if I wasn't, I'd still probably support it. Gay people are people, not some weird, inferior subspecies not deserving of the same things straight people can have.

[wrist cutter]

[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by Star I Am Not [/i]
[B]Gay people are people, not some weird, inferior subspecies not deserving of the same things straight people can have. [/B][/QUOTE]

You're going to have to repeat that for me... I can't believe what I'm hearing/reading here. You're comparing them with [i]us[/i]???

[Transtic Nerve]

[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by RequiemofaDream [/i]
[B] some people find gays to be disgusting, some don't. many consider a fifty year old marrying a 12 year old to be disgusting, a few don't. brother marrying sister, father marrying daughter, age differences, who knows, specie differences (!?), all could happen eventually, and legalizing gay marraiges would be the first step toward that. if the government is saying "your personal life, who you choose to have sex with and get married too is the business of the partners and no one else", well, it can go so many ways....[/B][/QUOTE]

There's a difference.The only reason, as far as I know, that a brother or sister couldn't marry is for the health of any children they may have. Probably for the health of themselves too. I'm not exactly sure. Children of family members can come out rather... odd.... You can look back on the royal families of Erope and see that. I really don't see any difference, and personally... if a brother and sister wanted to get married... hey.... it's their life, I don't have a problem with it. The 50 year old marrying a 12 year old... thats a matter of concent, maturity, intelligence, and so on... stuff a growing child doesn't have. When you become 18, you can marry whoever the hell you want, 50 years older or not. Legalizing gay marriages isn't the first step in that.... you would just apply the same rules to gays as you would to straight people.... You can't marry your brother or first cousin, and you can't be marrying anyone under 18... it's simple as that. I see your point, but I believe it is not vaild in this case.

[Jubei Yagyou]

AMERICA'S GOVERNMENT IS A HYPOCRACY BUT I LOVE IT SO IM WITH AMERICA but i dont know about making america automatically tie to christiany what the heck

[Semjaza]

Saying that legalizing gay marriage is the first step to anything it incredibly ignorant, I think. So because gay couples love eachother and people recognize it through marriage... suddenly legal underage love is closer to reality? Inbreeding? I've even heard people compare it to beastiality and other such things (in fact, someone in particular here, I'm sure some remember him saying this).

That's like saying letting people eat meat is the first step towards legalizing cannibalism.

[Guest cloricus]

Jubei I would say the same about your post.

I'm also interested why this is only being related to America at the moment, it is a problem that each western country in turn will have to work out?

I had never thought about this in the "step into that direction" frame of mind but now I have I think I personally will have to think how stupid or correct that idea could be. It sounds stupid at first but then again stupider things have happened.
Just so that I make my self clear I am not relating inbreeding with gays.

[Transtic Nerve]

[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by cloricus [/i]
[B]Jubei I would say the same about your post.

I'm also interested why this is only being related to America at the moment, it is a problem that each western country in turn will have to work out? [/B][/QUOTE]

Because that is what the topic is about. Gay Marriages in America.

[Guest cloricus]

[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by Transtic Nerve [/i]
[B]Because that is what the topic is about. Gay Marriages in America. [/B][/QUOTE]

Yeah thanks, I didn't read the topic.

[James]

[color=#707875]I guess my feelings on this subject are predictable, because I'm always defending human/civil rights. And I think that if you are going to defend human/civil rights, you have to also defend the idea that we should all have [i]equal[/i] rights.

Let's not have any illusions here. Marriage is probably pretty different to everybody. For some, it's purely about expressing love. For others, it's more of a legal question. And for others still, it has a stronger religious connotation.

In terms of gay people having "Christian" marriages...I don't think there should be any issue there. The idea that people can't claim their marriage valid in front of "YOUR God" annoys me. It's not [i]your[/i] God. I think it's highly arrogant to take that attitude. If people want to have a Christian marriage...so be it. Let God decided the legitimacy; not you.

From my point of view, this argument has a far more practical level. Forget the religious aspects for a moment...and think about this from a purely civil rights point of view.

I saw a news report a long time ago about a couple who had been together for 50 some years. The parents of one member of the couple hadn't been in contact with either of them for many years.

And then...that member of the couple died. So what happened? All of his posessions went to his family (some people who he hadn't even had contact with for years). And his partner got nothing.

Also, what happens if one member of the relationship has a car accident and goes to an intensive care ward? His partner (or her partner) would not be able to see him. He'd be classified only as a friend...not an immediate relative or a marital partner. Is that fair? Hell no. I don't think anybody in good conscience could consider it fair.

So, those are the issues I think about when I hear this discussion. I don't [i]care[/i] about the religious issues. The reason I don't care is because I think the whole thing is simply ridiculous. If I am Christian...and someone on the other side of the country wants to get a "Christian marriage", why the hell should I care? How does it affect me? How does it infringe on my rights? It doesn't. It's none of my damn business. I would not sit there and presume to tell those people that they [i]can't[/i] do it. Maybe I can complain. Maybe I can say "No, you shouldn't do it". Maybe I can disagree. But I have no right to say that they [i]can't[/i] do it.

I'm not actually pointing to anyone in this thread with that comment; it's more of a general sentiment towards those who are more hard-line on the issue. It's simply wrong to oppose someone's basic civil rights because you disagree with their beliefs, their genetics or whatever else. It's just fundamentally wrong.

I mean...I disagree with people over any variety of issues. But do I, as an equal citizen of my country...and as an equal human being...have the right to decide that what they are doing is wrong? Not only that it's wrong, but that they actually can't do it? No. If you disagree with that, you simply can't believe in true equality. It's impossible. And that's why I will never understand racism, or sexism, or homophobia. They are [i]all[/i] the same. And my feeling is that this is what the discussion ultimately comes down to. Just give people their civil rights (gay marriage or whatever else) and go home. Don't worry your little head about it; it doesn't affect your personal freedom or liberty. So shut up and put up.

Blah. Sorry for the semi-rant. I guess I needed to put a fine point on it or something. ~_^[/color]

[Genkai]

I've read a few articles sbout this recently. In the UK, gay people who are married now can pay bills together and other stuff ike that... They, as a married couple, have the same rights as straight married couples, rights they have been denied of for years... For instance, a gay couple who have been together for many years, live together, etc. etc. , didn't have the same rights in some cases, since they were not legally "married"..... So, \if one person in the couple died, the other person might not be left with anything,even the home they shared..... yeah, that whole thing was prety fractured.. Whoops..

[OlgaTheDwarf]

[QUOTE] It's not a question of how you or I look on marriage but how my Masters look on it [/QUOTE]

This quote was taken out of the book [I] That Hideous Strength [/I] by C.S. Lewis. It wasn't put there for the purpose of gay marriages but I think it relates to how this thread has gone. I am a Christian and believe that God created Adam and Eve (not Adam and Steve) as the first humans. And creating them he joined them together in his perfect unity a Man and his Wife. God created marriage and he created it for a Man and a Women anything else is a perversion of his creation.

That is what I believe but in the end it's a choice made between You and God. I can't tell you "you have to be straight", because everybody has freedom of choice. But, I can state what I believe and try to make you see it. A person isn't "going to go to hell for being gay". People go to hell because God can't live with sin and every person has a choice whether to sin or not, and everyone except Jesus has sinned. Yes it's true homosexuality is a sin because it violates God's perfect creation of marriage, but that just shows that everybody need God's salvation through Jesus' sacrifice, whether it be for being gay or lying it's all sin to God.

Another mis-conception made by people is that since I'm a Christain I hate God's because homosexuality is a sin. The fact is God told us to love everyone, He didn't say love perfect people. I don't care if you're gay, my first commandment as a Christian is to love people and leave the judging up to God. And because everyone is a creation of God and that in itself makes something to love about everyone.

As for gay marriages; I don't think they're right, but (as I said before) it's a decision made before you and God. I am not going to judge you if you're gay, but I still will stand by my beliefs.

P.S. PM me if you have any questions about Christianity.

[James]

[color=#707875]I don't think you can compare being gay to lying and then say that you're not judging gay people.

In any case, please bear in mind what this thread is about. This thread specifically relates to gay marriage and people's opinions on it. We do not need a lecture on how Christianity views homosexuality, largely because it's already been explained ad nauseum in this thread alone. Let's move past that and continue to discuss other substantive issues on this topic.[/color]