Society, free will, or you?

[AzureWolf]

Yeah, this is obviously a corollary to a previous thread that bothered me. :rolleyes: What makes a person who they are? Is it our environment, our choices, or our inner constiuents (i.e., blood-DNA)? Psychology teaches us that, by age 12-14, we are rooted with strong, immovable fundamentals for thinking and ideology (i.e., what's good, what's bad). These roots serve as a permanent fulcrum to how you handle other, more complicated ideologies and values (i.e., Is killing someone in self-defense ok?). These roots are also nearly impossible to change by age 12-14. So, what do you think is responsible?

Yeah, normally this question is just run with Society and you, but I don't want any of the cushy 50-50 answers, since we all know about that twin story (different environment, nearly same result).

[TheEsca]

Iny my opinion, a person creates what they are. I also feel that the parents of the child help create the child as well. Them teaching the child right from wrong, good from bad, etc etc, in essance it helps mold the child into the adult they become, i also feel that society and their friends help create what they are as well. A good example is looking at american children and african children. In Africa, there is still a strong sense of Ancestors, sacrificing to the gods, the strange piercings, living in the jungle and so forth. Their parents raised the children that way. And then the American kids, the technology-literate (SP) that its just how they live. They have money handed to them, and have no clue what else is out there.

So its two big differences in culture, but also how the parents raise them. Thats my opinion any ways.

Esca*

[wild thang]

well, i think that people are brought up a certain way, and thats how they live their life and thats what they teach their children. for example, i know a kid who was raised by a mother who didnt discipline him and let him do basically what ever he wanted. he
actually controlled her. i think that his kids might be raised by him to do the same because he doesnt know and better. he can change himself, but i doubt that he will do it.

some parents these days are scared to discipline their kids, so our society is going to hell.

but thats just me.

[Transtic Nerve]

There have been studies that say the environment creates who they are, then there are studies that say a person is who they are (ie: the twins story)

It's probably a little of both. Whether or not thats a 50/50 cushy answer you didn't want, it's most likely the truth. We'll never know. Obviously when You do a study of this thing, then the study of that thing and you get significant results for both, it can't be one or the other.

I know from personal experience that it's both. My brother and I are a year apart, we grew up together. We had the same friends, we did the same things, we have the same parents... But what happened? He's an immature staight guy who had a kid at 16 and is now getting married at 19, and I turned out gay lol. Two totally opposite people in the same exact household. The only time we actually started doing different things was when we were 15. So in the times we were 12-14, we were doing the same things. Yet we turned out as two totally opposite people.

It's DNA and genes in the fact I have the mind of my mother, and the looks of my father and my brother has the mind of my father and the looks from my mother's side of the family. My mother is Mature, smart, nice, understanding, open minded, and she carries the depressed gene which I also got. My dad is immature for the most part, can't spell, determined however to always think he's right... my brother is the exact same way. So I know that much is most likely DNA, cause we really didn't take a feel to any specific parent.

The only times my brother and I have had basically different lives is when we starts High School, my sophmore year actually... so I would have been 16, he 15, or a year earlier, whatever. Since then we've grown apart, had different lives. But UI knew I was gay long before that happened... and he was the same way back then as he is now... so I dunno if it's environment... how can two people living the same environment, turn out totally opposite?

My conclusion in my case is people are who they are cause they are born who they are, but I know thats not a fact for all people... the environment can change people greatly. Esspecially if they have a dramatic experience (ie: rape, death, etc)

[Guest Crimson Spider]

Each one of us has our own seperate personality, regardless of how you were raised. However, most of our morals are programmed into our heads from the time we are born. What's good, what's bad, we don't decide for ourselves. Everything around us from toys to books to TV shows to people raise us up to think what is right, what is wrong. I see people who say they are different, and independent from everyone else, when they are actually just on another bandwagon themselves.

One psychologest said that it was scary how sheep-like our youth is today. Like fashions, fads, and popularity. People are so eager to believe that something is cool that it actually becomes cool, just from the sheer numbers of people with the same ideas.

They say that if a person lived in a house where there was a certain picture on every wall with no contact from the outer world, and were suddenly taken away and asked to describe what a wall was, they would describe any normal wall, then mention the picture. To them, the picture is normal and is on every wall, and is the wall itself. They would see what they thought was normal. There is no picture there. That is just the wall. All of the other walls are different and wierd. Same thing with their morals. They are constantly being told what is what for their entire life. Pretty soon, they don't hear opinion. They hear, in their own mind, fact.

Then there are those people who chose to close their mind, and not take morals. These are the "Rules are for losers" people we all have seen so many times in our life. They are not independently thinking. They somehow got the notion that rules are dumb, and usually don't properly understand their purpose. Why? Because someone told them so, or they heard so, or they think that by being bad, they would be cool, because someone said that bad is cool. Then again, what is bad? Is killing someone bad? Is stealing bubblegum from a candy store bad? Is Investing in a meat company bad? How about planting trees. Is that Bad?

That is why I jumped myself onto the Christian Bandwagon. The bible was the only thing made that ever had a clear line of right and wrong. That is a very large basis of what is right and wrong today.

[Transtic Nerve]

[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by Crimson Spider [/i]
[B]That is why I jumped myself onto the Christian Bandwagon. The bible was the only thing made that ever had a clear line of right and wrong. That is a very large basis of what is right and wrong today. [/B][/QUOTE]

There are several religious books the explain right from wrong in their own religion.. the Qua'ran, Hindu and Buddhist scriptures as well. The Bible isn't the only thing that seperates wrong from right in our world. Some of it is just plain common sense... Don't kill people... we don't get that fromt he bible... there was thousands of years of civilization before the bible was even written where people didn't just go up to random others and kill them for the hell of it. Government and laws were created to differentiate between wrong and right in early civilizations... the Egyptians, the Greeks, the early Romans.... The bible was not around in that time to tell them what was wrong or right. i'm just trying to make a point that the bible isn't the only thing that has a clear line between wrong and right.... it's one of the many things besides common sense that tells us whats wrong and whats right.

[clumsymoonflowr]

[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by AzureWolf [/i]
[B] we all know about that twin story (different environment, nearly same result). [/B][/QUOTE]

Actually, we talked about that in SOC101 and our prof said that in reality, most twins that are "raised apart" actually aren't. They're usually taken in by a relative, live near each other, and play with each other from a young age. Then one "groundbreaking" study that was supposed to have proved that it was nature, not nurture that molds who you are was fake. The illustrious doctor made everything up, from his sources, to the people who worked with him on the project. +shrug+

-Ness, sick of locking spam

[AzureWolf]

[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by clumsymoonflowr [/i]
[B]Actually, we talked about that in SOC101 and our prof said that in reality, most twins that are "raised apart" actually aren't. They're usually taken in by a relative, live near each other, and play with each other from a young age. Then one "groundbreaking" study that was supposed to have proved that it was nature, not nurture that molds who you are was fake. The illustrious doctor made everything up, from his sources, to the people who worked with him on the project. +shrug+

-Ness, sick of locking spam [/B][/QUOTE] What the? A study? A project? I don't know about that... o_O Simply, two twins from an orphanage were seperated, and (if I remember correctly), they were not aware of their other. They were raised, married, and then, they bumped into each other in a restaurant one day. They talked to each other, and discovered several similarities: their house, preferences, jobs, the name of their dog (although their colors were opposite: one white, one black), etc. It was worth writing about, and that's exactly what happened.

[Mitch]

[size=1] It's a combination of everything, I'd say. Your parents influence you, especially as a child; your hereditary genes limit you or give you advantages which in turn also mold you; your friends and every single person you meet with and interact with changes you in some fine-tuned, or large area; your experiences and memories give you choices that you would never have besides.

It's just everything. What I listed isn't even a start of all the things that change you. But, in the end, when you make your own choices, and choose what to remember, and what to take from everyone and everything, it is you. But it's everything at the same time as well, you just filter it all out though.[/size]