Bushwhacked by Jesus, an existential fender bender

[Change]

Whew, back from hiatus! Good to be here again. (Yes, I still remember that I'm not allowed to post the generic "I have retuned" Threads, thank God this is nothing like this). This is actually a relationship story (I know you folk love those), and I hope that it is as entertaining for you as it is for me.

Well, A few weeks before high school ended I told Shy that I had officially given up on high school in looking for a relationship with someone. I was washing my hands of the whole experience, the place was a cultural and emotional waste land. I started hanging out in my Junior English teacher's classroom in the mornings, talking about books and music among other things. I also took notice of a very attractive Junior, who was on the volleyball team (very dreamy, just my type). So, I decided to strike up a conversation with her, and she was just wonderful to talk to, full of personality and very in tune with things. So we get to know each other for a month or so, and she actually comes after a volleyball practice to play tennis with me in the scorching sun o_0. So, I knew she was not there for the tennis, so we dinked the ball back and forth across the net, and basically just talked. I left with her cell phone/home phone/e-mail/AIM. That day she asked me out (w00tage). We go on a stellar first date, saw Bruce Almighty and went to a nice Italian restaurant. HOWEVER, I made sure to cover my *** and ask three big questions...Religion? Politics? and Music? I basically got Christian-lite, don't care, and 80's stuff. Wow...Three for three...So, we keep going out...She knows that I am going to college, and I made sure to ask her if it bothered her and she said that it didn't...(too good to be true)...So, she seems to really like me which is good, cause I reciprocate...I celebrate my graduation with her, we dance in a deserted parking lot to "Hard Day's Night," and I close with a goodnight kiss. Then she is busy for the next week with stuff and all I see from her is an e-mail with this line included..."I have stuff on my mind"...I'm no relationship guru, but I know that means **** has hit the fan...So, I finally do get to see her, and yeah, she is distant o_0...(sheisse)...She says that she doesn't think that this will work out. She then breaks to me that she is super-Christian and that she "LIVES FOR GOD." (DANGER! DANGER! DANGER!). I, being the cool, calm, and collected guy that I am, said, "ok, that's no problem here. I have no problem learning about what you believe in." I got the cold response, do what you will on your own, be we can still be friends (which has yet to materialize, cause I think she is angry with me or something I said). I spammed her some e-mail, she told me some truths later. So basically I was led like a lamb to slaughter and bushwhacked by Jesus, which I find really funny...
So, I came to the conclusion, that while on the surface she appeared as her own person, she was not. She didn't have a clue what she wanted. She was messes up on several level, but most of all she was to immature to handle a relationship. She was looking for "the One" at 17. She derived her morals from the Bible and not personal values. Oh well, she was still a good person. But I still get a laugh out of my reaction to it all and the absurdity herein.
So, let's get to where I want this topic to go...
1. Why live for God? To devote yourself to him I understand, but to live for him...I don't think that is even what he wants, after all, he sent his son to die for you...
2. Why codify spirituality in Religion? Do you look at the words, or the message? Why?
3. Did you like the title of this thread (I thought it was kind of funny)?
4. Also, feel free to bring up anything about Mythology in general, and how the stories speak to you.

So, I leave you with a quote that I have become fond of.
"Truth cannot be structured or confined."-Bruce Lee

[Guest Zeh]

"Bushwhacked by Jesus, an existential fender bender"

Haha.

Thats the greatest title ever. I'm pretty much atheist, so i stay away from anything that has to do with religion. When people start preaching and all that, i laugh.

[Justin]

1. Why live for God? To devote yourself to him I understand, but to live for him...I don't think that is even what he wants, after all, he sent his son to die for you:

Explain the difference in devoting yourself to Him, and living for Him?

2. Why codify spirituality in Religion? Do you look at the words, or the message? Why?

A) I don't consider Christianity a religion. It's a relationship and a life-style. So anyone who can answer this question will be enlightening me as well.
B) The message is in the words. Except when it comes to certain prophecies, there are no hidden messages in the Bible.

3. Did you like the title of this thread (I thought it was kind of funny)?

It is quite creative, I'll give you that. Though, it sounds like you were bushwacked by a chick. Not Jesus.

It talks in the Bible about being equally yoaked(I hope that's how it's spelled) to your mate. I think this applies to dating, because in dating you're learning what you want and practicing(in a certain sense) how you'll be in marriage.

Therefore, if she was truly a Christian at all, and truly on fire for God, I can understand her breaking it off. However, if she'd sought God beforehand, she wouldn't have had to find out later what she needed to do the hard way.

However, if she was just using God as an excuse, then she truly is immature, and has no concept of what she's playing with. And she'll also have to reep what she's sown.


-Justin

[TheShinje]

[size=1]

1. Why live for God? To devote yourself to him I understand, but to live for him...I don't think that is even what he wants, after all, he sent his son to die for you...

[b] The best answer I can give to that one is he has done so much for me. I want to worship God who is almighty and all loving, despitewhat I really deserve, death and eternity in hell.

He sent his son Jesus to die for us, so that our sins could be purified so we [i]could[/i] worship him. Until then, the only person allowed to confront God spiritually was a priest with no sin, or an offering had been made in Atonement. Now, peoiple can Go straight to God, without all the proceedures described in books like Leviticus.

2. Why codify spirituality in Religion? Do you look at the words, or the message? Why?

[b] I'm the same as Justin, Christianity isn't a religion as far as I'm concerned it's a fellowship with God and a lifestyle. It's basically living for God. Religion as I see it, is do this and do that and it's all good.

3. Did you like the title of this thread (I thought it was kind of funny)?

[b] It was pretty funny. Although yeah, you were pretty much more or less bushwhacked by the girl.

[/b]


Hope that answers you're questions.

[Brasil]

Harshness follows. Kiddies, avert thine eyes or thoust shalst surely be slain.

I feel that religion is one large crock of cow dung. I'm not biased against religion, of course, but the moment I see somebody claim they're acting on the side of God when they persecute someone, I lose my mind.

I've read a chunk of the Bible, and I didn't like what I was reading. Stories that punished those who didn't agree with what somebody had to say. Plagues, darkness, disease, prophets describing the end of the world in which all nonbelievers will be slaughtered brutally at the hands of angels (servants of God).

I'm not preaching here, I absolutely cannot stand when someone tries to convert me, so I try to avoid sounding like that.

But just the utter hypocrisy of religion boggles my mind.

Case in point: In my high school, there was this girl...I'll call her Kasey. Now, Kasey was a Bible freak. And not the, "love everyone religist." She had an ego the size of Texas. She was spiteful as hell, too. She was a fake to everyone and talked down to them...but yet, she claimed she was a good Christian. I never felt like arguing with her back then, because it wasn't worth the hassle. She was just...a *****...a religist *****. She actually professed how Jesus Christ was her Lord and Savior and how loving everything is the best thing to do, but never loved everyone.

Hell, she downright hated some people. I read most of the Bible. She preached the love and forgiveness of Christ. She in no way ever acted like Christ. She was just an egotistical hypocrite.

And most religists I view today have those exact same qualities as Kasey. That's why I don't feel religion is the way to go. We need to just understand ourselves without placing an emphasis on something that isn't of this world. Because, when everything is coming to a close, are we going to be here in the now, or up in the clouds. I feel religion is just a cop-out for too many people. It's a way of shifting the blame (which our society does much too much, BTW). It's a way of shirking off any responsibility for our actions.

Oh, God wants me to kill you because you feel Abortion is okay.

Oh, God wants me to kill you because you're gay.

Oh, God wants me to kill you because you don't belong to my religion.

Oh, grow up!! Are we that much like cattle? Think outside the box. Use some common sense. I'm not directing this toward anyone in particular. I'm directing it at those groups of people that just follow something cause they don't know anything else. It aggravates me how much of a flocking society we've become.

I'm out.

Later.

EDIT: And VERY nice title, BTW.

[Change]

Hmmm...She said that she asked God what to do about me for two months. Then she couldn't handel it anymore and she got the "dump the guy" vibe...Who knows...
I'm also going to throw out a link here to something that pertains to this discussion.
[url]http://freenet.msp.mn.us/org/mythos/mythos.www/TENCOM.HTML[/url]
Yes, I see Christianity as a relationship, but I also see it as a set of constraints established to guide. I do not see the Bible as the word of God, but as the message. I basicaly see it as "intended." I find that too many Christians chose to see the entire Bible as the end all be all Religieous experiance. I also find that most Christian lack true understanding of the world arround them, and they seek to view the modern world through the eyes of a 4000 year old group of wandering, sheep raping, desert nomads. One must understand cultural influences on texts...It's like driving in a car and not looking at the road where you are going, you are just looking back in the rearview mirror...

[GinnyLyn]

I applaud Justin for pointing out that Christianity is not a religion, it's a lifestyle.

Now, lately, it's very prominent that people welcome other people who have found their lifestyle. And usually, it's welcomed with open arms (the (bad phrase) "coming out" threads). I believe that it truly is something to come out and say, "Hey, I'm a Christian." It's all about standing up for what you believe in--and what hurts in this online community sometimes is that we, who are still faulty humans, are not accepting of others' lifestyles. I've done it, you've done it--don't deny it. I'm not saying that you have to say my lifestyle is right--I'm just saying accept it as a part of who I am.

As far as my God goes (and God forbid this should turn into yet another religion flame war, that would just be immature), the exposure I've had to other religions has yet to see god(s) that love their people. Yes, there's the point of, "Well, as long as you listen to what you are being fed, He loves you." In case you haven't noticed, you're always doing something that someone else is telling you to do--society dictates, science dictates, philosophy dictates, etc. I do what my God tells me because I have faith that defies human brains to have this faith--I don't make it on my own.

But as far as using her Christianity to back out is wrong. Christianity (or any other lifestyle) is NOT a crutch, and should not be treated as such. If that is what she is doing, then, like Justin said, she hasn't experienced much of it at all.

EDIT: Where the hell are you getting this sheep raping nonsense? Just because she screwed you over doesn't mean that Christianity is the be all end all screw over something or other. (Weak, heh!)

[Change]

I'm talking about the Israelites, and don't you think that they didn't!!! Heh, who else did all those nasty animal desieases spread to humanity. Just because it wan't written down, does not meen that it did not take place.

Edit: Maybe the title should have been "Bushwackked with Jesus, and exestential fender bennder, like fighting Charlie in the Juggle, it popped out like a jack in the box"

[Heaven's Cloud]

[color=indigo][b]1. Why live for God? To devote yourself to him I understand, but to live for him...I don't think that is even what he wants, after all, he sent his son to die for you...[/b]

Since I am not a devout Christian (I guess it is debatable if I am even a Christian) I don't see why you would devout yourself to God. If God is real, then I have no idea why an infallable being desires that his imperfect creation worships him. I do think that being a good Christian encompasses being polite and considerate to your fellow man, no matter the flaws that you preciev in him.

[b]2. Why codify spirituality in Religion? Do you look at the words, or the message? Why?[/b]

Its like my Dad always told me about teachers growing up...just because they say so, doesn't mean it is right...I think I look at religion as a basis for set ideals and ideas.

[b]3. Did you like the title of this thread (I thought it was kind of funny)?[/b]

I thought it was hysterical, actuall the whole thread was great. Going through high school and college in the Bible belt it was always a motto of me my friends to look out for girls that "hide [i]Hay-soos[/i] in the bushes"...[/color]

[Change]

I dunno, the titel just came to me...Right now I am sorrta between..
A bitter exestential
A half assed Christian
A really decent person
Someone who can never reach conclusion because it meens I have stopped growing.
It just sorrta fell into place...

How many of you Christians out there observe the Sabbath as instructed? Would you follow God's law and kill those who do not observe it?

[DeathKnight]

[color=crimson]1. [b]Why live for God? To devote yourself to him I understand, but to live for him...I don't think that is even what he wants, after all, he sent his son to die for you..[/b]

We all have to live for something, even if it just is life. Peoples lives are in their own hands- so let them live for God, or money, or a significant other, or just to have a family. People do what people do, and I cant change that for them.

[b]2. Why codify spirituality in Religion? Do you look at the words, or the message? Why?[/b]

I look at the message.

Isnt that the point?

3. [b]Did you like the title of this thread (I thought it was kind of funny)?[/b]

Uhh.. I guess it was sorta amusing.

4. [b]Also, feel free to bring up anything about Mythology in general, and how the stories speak to you.[/b]

I might fill this in later, not much comes to mind. o.o[/color]

[Change]

No DeathKnight, most people who follow the Bible in my experiances have lived by the letter of the law, as opposed to living by the spirit of the law.

Where do your morals come from? Are they personal values that you see as practical? Or are they comming from the writings of a poor wandering sheep raping desert tribe (granted, may of their values still hold some water). Is the book telling you how to belive, or what to belive? There is no black and white in this world, only shades of grey.

Devote...Hummmm...Observe/worship/respect/follow teachings
Live...Wait for him to hit you over the head and make the choices for you or something like that...

[DeathKnight]

[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by Change [/i]
[B]No DeathKnight, most people who follow the Bible in my experiances have lived by the letter of the law, as opposed to living by the spirit of the law.
[/B][/QUOTE]

[color=crimson]That is why i'm agnostic. All christians today are actually False Christians- pagan practices have seeped into it overtime, and misunderstandings as to what it means blind people.

Therefore, it is a falsehood to me- a shadow of Christ's first establishment.[/color]

[Change]

It's sorrta like the movie Dogma...It's better to have an idea than a riddged code...

And HC, a lot of my relatives were from Missouri, and are die hard Souther Baptists (kinda scary folks), so I sympathize.

So I have another questions. When a chick says let's be friends, that meens "Let be friends in a few days/weeks/months/years/centuries?"

[TheShinje]

[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by PoisonTongue [/i]
[B]
I feel that religion is one large crock of cow dung. I'm not biased against religion, of course, but the moment I see somebody claim they're acting on the side of God when they persecute someone, I lose my mind.[/B] [/QUOTE]

[size=1] While they say the worship the God of the Bible, thoier very [b]persecution[/b] defies their statement. They worship witht heir tounge, and do not practice what they preach, unfortunatley, this is the Imange people tend to get when they view Christianity, where in fact it's the exact opposite[/size]


[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by PoisonTongue [/i]
[B]Oh, God wants me to kill you because you feel Abortion is okay.

Oh, God wants me to kill you because you're gay.

Oh, God wants me to kill you because you don't belong to my religion.

[/B][/QUOTE]

[size=1] Once again, this is not the God I serve, I serve Jesus, who forgives everyone. If he wasn't so forgiving, we would have been smoldering ash a long time ago lol.

The fact is, Jesus want us to love for the Abortionists, to love for Gay people ect...
We're all sinners so no one can truly claim to be "Holier Than Thou"
Hypocrisy itself is damned in the bible.

So you can view it however you want, at least know it isn't as horrible as you make it out to be.

To Change , if the words of the Bible were only the words of wandering shepherds 4000 years ago. Would it have predicted so many modern day events in 100% accuracy? It's something to think about. Please don't think I mean it in an insulting way.[/size]

[Brasil]

Change, no offence, but you're an idiot. The sheep raping comments are really annoying and only show how immature you are. I'd need more info about the "let's be friends" situation to give informed advice.

And Shinji, I'm glad to see you're not a psychotic. I really am. Seems like all the religist people on the news are nuts. Probably sane and mature religious people wouldn't get ratings.

I was watching TV last night...or maybe two nights ago. I was half-asleep and channel surfing when I hit one of those late night televangelist programs. I didn't have enough interest to watch it then, but do you know why they were praying for the Supreme Court? I'm thinking it had something to do with the recent ruling in Texas.

[Change]

I think you mixed up the two topics on the board (MADSONIC is the one with the love troubble)...And, why would they bother to write a rule like that tells you not to have sex with animals in leviticus if it wern't a problem :P Know your tribe ^_^, myth never arises in a vacuume (I'm just poking fun at them). And no offense Poison, but maybe you should take a little more tiem to sleep rather than stay up late and confuse topics, and try and rear that tounge back in because I do not want this topic to degenerate into flames.

[Justin]

[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by Change [/i]
[B]I dunno, the titel just came to me...Right now I am sorrta between..
A bitter exestential
A half assed Christian
A really decent person
Someone who can never reach conclusion because it meens I have stopped growing.
It just sorrta fell into place...

How many of you Christians out there observe the Sabbath as instructed? Would you follow God's law and kill those who do not observe it? [/B][/QUOTE]
The laws given to Isreal in the Old Testament don't all apply to modern Christianity. Those in Isreal didn't have the atonement of Christ, and could not come to God the way we can today. Jesus gave us(both directly and through the Apostles) the way we should live today. And honestly, it makes more logical sense.

Why were things the way they were for ancient Isreal? No clue. It's an important part of the history of my God, and I'm sure with as much as it's come up, I'll eventually get off my lazy butt and study it some more. But why do you think those old folks pass out those little Bibles with just the New Testament in them? Because everything we really need is located there. I draw from the Old Testament as a great source of learning. A background for the modern faith, and I use it's verses and propechies to back up what I hold to be true.

And you don't have to stop growing if you choose Christianity. That is, if you choose biblically-based Christianity. You say your family are all hardcore Southern Baptists: In my experience they don't believe in the modern workings of the Holy Spirit--without which I would never have even become a Christian.

As for the sheep raping: Those old laws were established to set Isreal apart from it's pagan neighbors. Therefore, while I won't say it [i]never[/i] took place among the Isrealites, I would say it was more of a problem among those around the Isrealites.


Ken, you always make statements saying that Christianity is outdated, or polluted. While I can see where there is pollution, you seem to state as though [i]all[/i] Christians were that way. Yet I've never seen you back it up.

You don't have to do it openly, if you think it'll lead to conflict with people; but I ask you to at least contact me privately with what it is that makes you think all this.

-Justin

[Change]

I think that all religions curently in practice do tap into Zhiet Giest, or else they wouldn't be practiced. The thing is that culture plays more of a role than Religion does for most people.
When you make a choice you automaticaly limit yourself within that choice. Hence all choices are limiting.
You don't make a law unless you have a problem with something. And they just might have had a problem...And their neighbors (such as the Egyptians and Babylonians), were much more advanced than the Israelites. You should go out and buy Joseph Campbell's Occidental Mythology when you are ready learn some more about Christianity. It also covers some Greco-Roman, and Islamic myths.

[Brasil]

[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by Change [/i]
[B]I think you mixed up the two topics on the board (MADSONIC is the one with the love troubble)...And, why would they bother to write a rule like that tells you not to have sex with animals in leviticus if it wern't a problem :P Know your tribe ^_^, myth never arises in a vacuume (I'm just poking fun at them). And no offense Poison, but maybe you should take a little more tiem to sleep rather than stay up late and confuse topics, and try and rear that tounge back in because I do not want this topic to degenerate into flames. [/B][/QUOTE]

Yeah, my bad, Change. Sorry. I have edited my post.

[Change]

Heh, np. I know the pain of late night computer addiction :)

[Dan L]

There's an analogy that goes something like this:

Christians ideally should aim to follow certain rules, even if they end up breaking them. They believe a certain set of things, and they should be willing to make sacrifices (I'm talking about giving things up, not killing people).

Non-believers have no-where near as many restrictions due to what they believe.

In a relationship between a Christian and non-Christian, it's a lot easier for a Christian to slip into non-belief than it is for the non-Christian to form a belief. And as long as the two are of opposing beliefs, the relationship can never be as good as it could be if they believed the same thing.

This is because most Christians pray, and devout Christian couples tend to pray together. It's kind of like a unity thing, which Christians tend to miss out on when their partners are non-believers.

Also, the non-believer often sees the Christian's beliefs as restrictions on what they can and can't do, based on things that he/she doesn't even believe in.

Hence somewhere, there is a need for change for the relationship to be most effective.. and it's a lot easier for the Christian to stop believing than for the non-Christian to start.

Thus, Christians are normally advised to enter relationships with other Christians, because no matter how strong your faith is, it's hard to keep it up in a relationship with someone who doesn't share it.

If that's the grounds on which this girl decided to end the relationship, then it may seem a bit silly, but it works.. however if she was just using god as an excuse then like Justin said earlier, she was just being immature.

I guess it all depends.. I mean, you say you're "Christian-lite".. but I guess it depends how deep your belief is- the rule doesn't just apply to Christians being in relationships with Christians as a whole, but with people of the same level of faith. So I don't mean to imply that you don't believe in any way, but rather if she has a really deep faith she may be looking for someone with the same kind of depth in faith.

[Justin]

Unless I'm mistaken, the Bible talks about two partners being 'equally yoaked'. I'm as hoping I spelled 'yoaked' right.

This doesn't just mean in their beieving in God and in their convictions--this can go much deeper. I am a Christian, and there ar many other convicted Christian women out there; but I'm only destined for one path.

Anyone I marry will be equal to me, she will edify and teach me, and be edified and taught by me. Two whole, equal parts coming together and forming something whole and equal. Not two incomplete, unbalanced pieces coming together and forming something even more incomplete and unbalanced.

You did well in asking her those three questions at the beginning. You may wonder why, if she was [i]so[/i] dedicated to God, did she decieve you in the beginning. It's possible she underwent a rededication without your knowing afterwards. It's also possible she lied. You won't know until you ask her. I suggest you do so. It may prove to be a learning experience for you.

-Justin

[James]

[color=#707875]Regarding the actual original thread, I guess I can only say that the situation is a shame. Change, this has very little to do with religion. It's merely a question of somebody lying to you. Perhaps she noted herself as being "Christian-lite" to make herself more palatable -- maybe she says that to everybody, who knows.

Either way, she lied. She lied about herself, and in the process, made herself out to be something that she isn't. The same rules apply to everyone here, I think. If you're going to lie about yourself to make yourself more appealing to someone, then you know that your relationship is really based on that lie. Or at least, that lie is what keeps the relationship going in some sense. And that is obviously wrong.

In terms of the rest of this thread...I don't want to get into it, because so much of it actually ignores what the original thread title was about. But, I did want to point one thing out:

Re-li-gion
[i]n[/i]

1a) Belief in and reverence for a supernatural power or powers regarded as creator and governor of the universe.
2a) A personal or institutionalized system grounded in such belief and worship.

2) The life or condition of a person in a religious order.
3)A set of beliefs, values, and practices based on the teachings of a spiritual leader.
4)A cause, principle, or activity pursued with zeal or conscientious devotion.

Christianity is indeed a religion. People might have different interpretations on the word "religion", or they might see different connotations to that word. But, some of you are describing religion as a way of life and saying that this doesn't fall under religion. It does. It's a way of life, a philosophy, a belief system. Just wanted to clarify that.[/color]

[Change]

Hmmm...Well, I'm going to send her one last e-mail. It's designed to be both a carrot and a stick. Honey and a Bee. I understand her choice now, I think her real problem though was that she was not ready for a relationship, and that she did not really know what she wanted. I understand and accept her choice.

Hmmm went over like a bullet to the brain...I need to get back to chasing P at Cal...