Martial Arts Philosiphy

[Raiha]

[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by The Harlequin [/i]
[B][font=gothic][color=indigo]....Damn Australia. I can dream damn it....[/font][/color] [/B][/QUOTE] [COLOR=royalblue]Yes you can dear, yes you can. *pats your head and mails you a knife*

Anyways I quite agree with the whole rule thing. I take a very strict form of ballet. I'm required to follow the rules precisely, or it becomes nonsense instead of ballet. I need to have a completely perfected center of balance, or I'll fall and really hurt myself. If I roll out on my pointe [of my toe damnit], then I'll crack my ankle and my dancing days will be OVER. As in, sitting on the bench for the rest of my life.

Of course, there's also rules to my tap and my modern dance classe. The feelings of contraction and release are important to let the energy flow through the body. It's a philosophy I believe in, very similar to Taoism. Why rise up, when all you're going to end up doing is fall? You kick, to let your leg come down.[/COLOR]

[Zen]

[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by The Harlequin [/i]
[B][font=gothic][color=indigo]There's nothing really wrong with a good knife fight, and if you train for it, you can treat the knife like a disadvantage anyway. Let's face it, you can block a knife with the ridge of your forearm with a much smaller amount of force than is required to deflect a solid punch. I'll give you the point of guns though...I personally detest them. But what would make for an interesting time is if instead of knives everyone carried kamas...That way, everything would be martial arts, and they'd be legal for me to buy....Damn Australia. I can dream damn it....[/font][/color] [/B][/QUOTE]


I see your point with the kniife fight thing. But when your fightng an unarmed man, thats is dishonorable. Its real complex. Like if they say "Fight Me with the Knife." Its alright, but you srill look like a freakin'panzy having too use a weapon during a fist fight. Now if the two exponents have knives, than its fare.

[The Harlequin]

[font=gothic][color=indigo]I tend not to give a damn about honour, one way or another. Not in a fight anyway. But then, most people think it's "dishonourable" (though they tend to use the term "gay" or something to that effect) to use your feet in a fight at all. Damn football playing no necked hicks. But what I mean about knife fighting is that it basically eliminated the use of one hand. You can only thrust and slash really. You can't grip anything with a knife blade, which can often be useful. You can only hit only certain angles for another. And if you move forward, chances are you'll find your arm twisted back so you're walking onto your own knife. If someone looks like a pansy for using a knife in a fist fight, they look even worse when the other person walks away and they don't.[/font][/color]

[Justin]

All this 'honor' you talk about it nothing but romanticized bullcrap. Please, do use your head to think for a moment, instead of dream.

All in all, what is a real fight? A physical struggle between two(we'll say two), with at least one trying to hurt the other. You don't look like a pansy for using whatever you have to your advantage--you look like the person who is going to win. If I ever again fight someone(which I hope I don't), and he thinks like you do(which is probably not how you would think in a real fight), I say let him keep his honor. He can gloat about it to himself in the hospital, because I'll have used everything in my power to protect myself.

I have a lesson for you: In a real fight, there are no rules. There are no boundaries. You don't think about that. All you think about is how to end it as quickly as possible, and as effectively as possible.

But please, this honor jargon is making me sick.

-Justin

[Zen]

I don't consider kicking unfair. Its part of your body, use it. I as i said before, the days have long passed since two ffighters could go at it and fight too see who is the clear winner insteadd of bringing in another factor. Honor may be a "bunch of romatizied crap"as you put it. I guess i'm just the ronamtic type. I just feel honor is something too be had. Cowards tend too fight you with there posse, a knife, or even a gun, simply because they do not have confidence in there hearts to fight with there bodies.

AS i said, If honor is romantic bull crap, i guess i'm a romatic type who beleives in bull crap.

[Shinken]

Well, what I think here is that honor is a good thing to have, as long as it isn't bragged about. If I'm in a fight, and my opponent's back is turned, I'm not gonna hit him. Even if they would do that to me; I just don't think it's right.

"In a real fight, there are no rules. There are no boundaries." -Well, there kind of are rules. What I mean is that people will set up their own rules. For example, I said that I wouldn't hit someone with a turned back; that's a rule, even if it only applies to me. And as for the no boundaries... Gravity counts, right? ;) (Just a joke, had to do it...)

[Baron Samedi]

I know next to nothing about the kind of philosophies applied by Martial Artists. But, while Bruce lee's ideas (water etc.) are good, and worthy, maintaining 'honour' and 'standing' in a fight are not the principal things to be concerned about.The point (if it is a proper, potentially dangerous fight) is for you not to be hurt. And him to be down. In some cases, the ends justify the means. Nobody remembers the losers. And the winner is revered, not for [B]HOW[/B] they fought, but because they fought and [b]WON[/b]. Ideally principles are good. Great even. But in this world they matter little. Years ago, these things mattered, but now? Everything has to change. To grow up. DBD... I am afraid that your martial arts is going to change. Inevitably. It may be subtle, but your 'spirit' of the fighter is not... viable in todays world. We don't go around fighting people. It doesnt happen. We learn martial arts for self-defence, pleasure, or we enter world competitions. But these all have rules and such. We no longer 'travel the land' seeking to become the best fighter. These are useless pipe-dreams of a forgotten time. It is a has-been time. Much of the principles are no longer what people want. And if people don't want it, then they won't get it. So basically what i am saying, is that philosophies are good. But nobody really cares for them any more. So we dont get them. So if your oponent turns their back on you, kick them. They were dumb enough to turn their back on you. Because when he pivots, and kicks you in the throat, collapsing your windpipe, then it no longer matters does it? Use what you have. Or just try not to get into a fight. That seems like the best advice of all ~_^

[Zen]

i don't care about winning. if i lose, then i deserved it. I'm not going too back down on my beleifs just too win. If i lose, i lost with honor, if i win, then i faught as honorably. Like you, said, people no longer roam the lands too search for the best fighter. i never said that i would want too do that, i said that if and when i get into a fight, i fight with the honor of a man. Me and my freind, Dan, who was in Jujutsu, we would go out to the hill in my back yard and spar without pads. We just went at it with the teachings of our martial arts and fought with honor, if you don't beleive in honor, then thats your beleif, i'm just saying that is what i beleive in. I jus think that others should possess it. A quote from Bruce Lee says that you must not focus on winning, but you must learn to acsept defeat, if you are not scared too lose, than its another didstraction takien away from your fight.

[Kwai]

Honor... heh. I really, really hate to have that concept when I'm fighting. If the opponent drops his weapon, continue with the assault. It is his fault that he dropped his weapon. Having to fight with honor on the mind restrains me. And I don't want to fight with a restraint upon me. Besides, its rather irritating when someone loses to me in Kendo and starts ranting about how I fought dishonorably and I only won because he was fighting honorably and I had the advantage. To me, it presents an excuse which prevents you from going all out, and also an excuse for losing.

[Zen]

I'll say again, i would not boast about the fight being dishonarable. I said that if i losed, i would know it was my fault for losing. I have too learn too accept defeat. I'll admit that i still haven't leasrned too accept defeat yet, but if i lose, i'm not going too complain about.

[Kwai]

I don't know... I'm not entirely a big fan of accepting defeat. I think that while denying defeat to the extreme is unwise, keeping the fire within, believing that you are not truly defeated, that you can yet prevail, that you ARE better than your opponent drives you to new limits, and attain victory upon renewed occasion.

[Zen]

Yes, but think about this. A man that is cocky nad roudy, yet very distracted about winning and overcoming an opponment going agains a man who is confident in himself, yet not even thinking about winning or loseing. Just there, ready to keep himself preserved. he is not concerned about completely defeating his opponent, but waiting for his opponents attack. The man is not distracted by defeat. Almost all martial arts teach you too be a humble fighter. Too be modest and too be as calm as possible in a violent situation. Now the man who isn't modest and is all worked up. Not calm and not modest, but overly cocky and worrked up. So worked up that he is not focused enough too fight to the fullest extent he/she can. You may know that you can defeat the opponent, but your not distracted by the thought that you could be defeated. That is what i beleive in.

[Kwai]

You missed my point. I did not mean to be fired up during the fight. I meant that immediately after you are defeated, you can resume your training with vigor and increased zeal, as long as you keep the fire within. And besides, sometimes it is better to be worked up during the fight. More emotions in an attack means more confusion and damage upon the opponent's part.

[Zen]

I understand your "Fire within" philosophy, but what i mean is too empty your mind of thought so too intercept anything that comes your way. Its like a finger pointing out towrds the moon. If you consentrate on the finger, you'll miss all the heavenly glory. Empty your mind, be formeless, shapeless, like water. Read my sig to understand the water concept. i hope you understand it.

[Kwai]

Unfortunately, that little principle really does not apply in my field. Yeah, yeah, I understand it. But simply emptying your mind really doesn't help. When I fight, my head is an maelstorm of thoughts. I see the opponent move, I immediately start calculating the distance, strength, possible speed, etc. of the opponent. I will, at the same time, be thinking about which attacks can be used most effectively against the opponent based either on experience or intuition. Emptying your mind, if you ask me, only works once you are experienced enough to be able to do the strategizing without being aware of it.

P.S. Its "through the hardest rock"

[Zen]

I see what you mean, but then again, i guess that you can't really use the idea of simplicity wouldn't really work with Kendo, seeing how its a strictly weapons only art. What i beleive in pretty much pretaines too unarmed fighting and loose weapons like poles, nunchakus, whips, wooden sticks, and other weapons along those ligns. So i understand what you mean.

[Baron Samedi]

What i was saying.... well losing may not be an option... you seem to be regarding fights as 'friendlies'. Thugs will leave you for dead. Honor is no barrier to them. This is a strength for them, because it is a limit to you. If losing is not an option, then what do morals matter. And when you get into a real fight... when your fighting for your health... then winning is [b]ALL[/b]. Losers are NOTHING. In those kind of cases at least. Winning is vital in that case....

[rokas]

[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by Baron Samedi [/i]
[B]What ... Thugs will leave you for dead... [/B][/QUOTE]
[font=comic sans ms][b][i][color=sienna]Where do Thugs come in? In martial arts there are no thugs, in fighting yeah, you'll find everything there, but martial arts is a complitely different thing. that's one of the points I wanted to point out about the "flowery stuff"- it might not look efective in fights, but even the best martial arts styles won't be effective in a real fight, you'll get hit in the back, shot or simply slip on your opponents blood and break you'r neck. While the fight in martial arts is more like a game, a combination of power and the skill in the art is needed to vin, if you'r power and skill isn't sufficient you'll loose the game. Same as you have to have strong arms while arms wrestling and if the opponent psyches you out while arm wrestling and vins, it's not cheating it's just not honourable, so you don't go around whining about it, the same is in martial arts. In a real fight you have to have strong legs... to run away.

About the philosophy- My moto is "Ignorance is bliss", a man can't find clear and compleate definition between right and wrong and search for it is pointless, he should simply forget the dilema, and concentrate on other things.[/font][/color][/i][/b]

[Baron Samedi]

Rokas, i agree. But as i said in an earlier post, you dont go around just fighting people. What the knowledge is for, is practical use in the real world. Or enjoyment or competition. But it was originally intended for practical use, in the real world, like at the beach (sorry couldnt resist it). Thats all.