WW2 Posted July 30, 2003 Share Posted July 30, 2003 Jeez, what the hell makes you think of things like that? You should be out living your life, instead of trying to figure out the secrets of the universe. Plus you're only asking questions that have been asked many times before, by people like yourself. You must know that no one, on this earth, truely knows the answers, nor will we ever know in our life times. So, I ask you, what's the point? But this is all my opinion?:D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FartMaster745 Posted July 30, 2003 Author Share Posted July 30, 2003 To see other opinions. Thats all. I hope I'm not offending you by asking such questions that you dont care about. I'll stop asking if you want me to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sniglefager Posted July 30, 2003 Share Posted July 30, 2003 Being curious is only human nature. Even though it's not necessarily a good thing, it's not really bad either. Wondering about life is what people have done since the dawn of time, and we'll only be able to wonder more. But never say we won't ever learn, because if we can't learn on our own, we can't grow on our own. EDIT: This was a reply to WW2, not Fartmaster Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WW2 Posted July 30, 2003 Share Posted July 30, 2003 [QUOTE][i]Originally posted by FartMaster745 [/i] [B]To see other opinions. Thats all. I hope I'm not offending you by asking such questions that you dont care about. I'll stop asking if you want me to. [/B][/QUOTE] Ha! Don't worry it takes alot to offend me, and you can think all you want.:D I was just curious of why you asked such a question, when there's better things you can set your mind on. Plus what would you do with the answer if you knew it?:therock: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sniglefager Posted July 30, 2003 Share Posted July 30, 2003 he'd be rich and probably have the Nobel peace prize lol. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
klinanime1 Posted July 30, 2003 Share Posted July 30, 2003 What IS thought, though? I mean, our brains function on electrical currents, supposedly, just like any other animal. Why do we have the ability to think logically? OR is it all an illusion? I suppose logic CAN'T be an illusion, because we ARE able to control bodily functions, unlike other creatures, but what exactly controls us? If we answer that, we can figure out the dream thing. Hey, I'm confused. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FartMaster745 Posted July 30, 2003 Author Share Posted July 30, 2003 klinanime1, I guess the 2 questions are linked. WW2 what would you do if you knew the answer to a question on some sort of quiz? You would use it to your advantage and answer it. If I find the answers to these questions(which is not likely) I would use to my advantage and hopefully help others. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Akki Koroshiya Posted July 30, 2003 Share Posted July 30, 2003 [QUOTE]If all that we know, all phisical realm that surrounds us and us as well consists of particales like atoms, electrons, neutrons, radiowaves and others, and all of the above as we all know obays chemical and phisical laws - how can we say that we really are intelligent beings and can take our own decisssions? Does that mean that that our thoughts are just chemical reactions which are destined to give out pre-defined results? Does that mean that free will is just an illusion and the end result will be exactly the same as it was meant to be unless there would be an "outside interference"? And might there be "something" behind the process adjusting it according to "it's" plan like adding catalsisers to the reaction? Kind of makes you thing of God and Soul doesn't it? Could anyone find a flaw in the "thought"? It realy makes me nervous, are we all so insignifican't? I won't be able to sleep for months now... What are your thoughts about this? [/QUOTE] yea ive somewhat encountered this on a philosophy forum and often wondered this myself,but im afraid,to fully answer this question we must first learn and now how to use the other85% of our brain*which goes to a theory of mine*like i beleive teleknetics and genius' are able to slightly tap into some of the brain we dont use and thats gives them the abbility to do such.But they still dont go to a full 100% of there brains,and until we finally catch up with our evolution we wont be able to answer thsi question,along with a few others,until we can/do. [QUOTE]What IS thought, though? I mean, our brains function on electrical currents, supposedly, just like any other animal. Why do we have the ability to think logically? OR is it all an illusion? I suppose logic CAN'T be an illusion, because we ARE able to control bodily functions, unlike other creatures, but what exactly controls us? If we answer that, we can figure out the dream thing. Hey, I'm confused.[/QUOTE] thought is one of the traits we gained from evo;ution,its allows us to be creative,inovative,change the world around us to better help us,and the evolutionary drive controls us,the will to survive,reproduce,and evolve.And i dream is a series of thoughts occuring dureing a certain realm of thought when the rest of your body shuts down. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baron Samedi Posted August 1, 2003 Share Posted August 1, 2003 I have a similar question- base. Today we dissected sheepbrains. they are grey mush. literally. So, what i dont like is that...mush... can remember stuff. I dont understand life. We can define WHAT life is, but not HOW life is. If someone put this mush on a plate and said "This can remember images" i would laugh. We cannot make life (In a lab from entirely synthetic materials)(that is), because it requires something.... i dont understand. I am intellignt, but i have limited knowledge. The same failing as most humans have...among others... but it is too.... broad a concept to consume. We have not explored it fully enough. How does your brain remember stuff. How can pink rubber make you move? how can it processs and make sense of it all. This is a difficult concept. i find it to be so, anyways. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Akki Koroshiya Posted August 1, 2003 Share Posted August 1, 2003 yea,when AI is mastered the meaning of life we be changed forever,like one AI can do work and learn the land and figure ways to make its job easier and more efficient whiel the other Ai that i know of is cabable of learning and mimicing like a baby does.So that cant quite be answereed at the moment.That question also reflects on should we pull the plug on people on life support*we should*.And even a little on cloneing.So at the time being tha question cant be answered.And you dont a certain space for remembering stuff,you can contain infinate knowledge if it were posible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eleanor Posted August 1, 2003 Share Posted August 1, 2003 [size=1] Well, if AI cannot be achieved by mankind, I guess that tells us that our own thoughts and decisions are not based on chemicals or atoms or whatever it is you guys are talking about (but I can't comprehend). I've always wondered, though...People sometimes say, "You got your stubborness from your mother!" or something like that. Is that really a gene? I mean....a stubborness gene. O_o That might mean your thoughts can be based on physical components, and is 'fake'. >_ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options... Mitch Posted August 1, 2003 Share Posted August 1, 2003 [size=1] We are created into conception from the forming of two cells. Before the forming of these two cells can happen, first the cells must undergo a somewhat differing form of mitosis (replication) in order to get the correct number of chromosomes so that we have the needed amount and nothing more or nothing less (I believe it is 46, if I am remembering off the top of my head correctly). These two cells then combine--the sperm cell, and the ovum. Once combined I believe they are called a zygote. (I am not sure. I am remembering right off the top of my head and it has been a while since I have gone over these things. Since Biology class last year.) These two cells are all of much that is needed to make us. They begin replicating over and over and over again until a fetus is made. This all happens without a single touch from a human--other than the mating which happens (like with all other mammals.) It all happens in a predetermined mesh of genes. Of the more potent and larger and standing-out genes, and those which are smaller. This is what makes us. The combination of chemically produced and made DNA/RNA which is the genepool of our bodies. The bitmap of us. But sometimes things go wrong. Things [i]do not happen the way they should and shall[/i]. Things bend themselves, and the process gets all messed up. Someone gets one more chromosome than they need, and BAM, they are totally not what they should have been. Things bend. They overthrow their natures. They overthrow themselves and create something new and different. Natural selection. That theory of Darwin's. That makes wonderful sense. Things that have mutations that are useful survive and continue bending things. What I have said is over my head a bit. Basically, I am trying to say that things are not ever what they seem. You can continue to break down from cell, atom, the other theorized smaller portions. But in the end it will not matter, because the more closer you go into something, the more very complex it will get. Just think about looking at your skin. With our eyes it appears to be just a natural thing. You can't see the cells...but when you go under the microscope, it gets harder to comprehend what you are seeing; harder to comprehend that you are looking at what was your skin. Basically, natures can be bent. Things can change themselves in weird fashions. Chemicals may and I believe are what cause a lot of the emotional mentality within a human. But I bet there's a lot more to it then we'll ever know. We are evolved creatures. These chemicals were built up and made and manufactured in a set way over a builing and building of the different forms of us (if you believe we evolved from some from of ape, which is my belief). But I believe if you were to truly try and understand why these chemicals are released and when and how they are created exactly right down to the smallest little prick you can name it down to, it would be too utterly complex to really tell you much of anything. A garble mess of information. Just look at our DNA structure. We are still not very much far in learning about it too much..it's just massive for how small it is. It's complex. It has its own language. And so on. Basically, knowing isn't really worth it that much. Once you know, then you're too close to becoming something more than human. And even if you know, things have a way of bending themselves. Like the way some people are double-jointed in their fingers and can pull them back all the way. It's the same. Some things are just made special out of mistake. Saying that, let's talk about physics. I believe there was something in Xenosaga which I recall that was about some paradox that if two objects are far apart or something, then it creates a paradox of some sort. I don't know. I didn't understand it too well. But it serves a damn good example. All we know about the way things fall and the way gravity inclinates could be very wrong. Sure, it's been put down into forumlas and things. But think about it. Numbers are only a creation of [i]ours[/i]. They might mean something, but really, all they are is slashes and crosses and dashes. That is all they are. We simply use them as a kind of unfaltered guideline of sorts. Words are the same. Basically, things can bend. I wish I could just imagine what it would be like in a black hole, and to know what is on the other side. Physics says, probably, that it is impossible to manage to survive in one; and also that it's impossible to travel the speed of light or faster. But there are ways to bend things. I have seen it in my own life, in much simpler ways. But things overdo what they're designed to. That's what I think thinking, well, deep thinking is in a way. Overstepping what these chemicals and things that are laid out for us and bending in a way. I don't know. But for the abstract thinking we have, it is much more than just chemicals and signals. Or perhaps it's something more we shall never fully understand. All I know is it doesn't matter to me. I will be long dead before a lot of good and solid new findings are found in science.[/size] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options... FartMaster745 Posted August 1, 2003 Author Share Posted August 1, 2003 [QUOTE][b]maladjusted [/b] [size=1] Well, if AI cannot be achieved by mankind, I guess that tells us that our own thoughts and decisions are not based on chemicals or atoms...[/size][/QUOTE] [size=1] Your completely right in a way. The thing is, I dont think programmers and scientist can give robots and computers emotion any time soon(or not even at all). I dont beleive that we should give computers AI because then they will become a creature. Whats so dangerous of a computer having AI and becoming the smartest artificial creature in the world? Well, what do all creatures desire? Power. You can program a computer to obey, but it will only be a matter of time until it turns on you because it learns and has access to every peace of information on this planet if it is connected online. [/size] [QUOTE][b]Mitch[/b][size=1] But sometimes things go wrong. Things do not happen the way they should and shall. Things bend themselves, and the process gets all messed up. Someone gets one more chromosome than they need, and BAM, they are totally not what they should have been. Numbers are only a creation of ours. They might mean something, but really, all they are is slashes and crosses and dashes. That is all they are. We simply use them as a kind of unfaltered guideline of sorts. Words are the same. [/size] [/QUOTE] [size=1] Deep, very deep. You seem to stress 'bend' a lot and I have to say that I agree. I have a lot of trouble with the idea that us humans have all of this knowlege in only a matter of 2 million years(when man first appeared), but then again things go wrong as Mitch said(for better or for worse). [/size] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options... Akki Koroshiya Posted August 1, 2003 Share Posted August 1, 2003 ah but see,a computer is not a creature and even if we do givce it an AI it has no will to survive,so its not a creature,the cannot reproduce unaided,they dont have a will to survive,they arent animals so the will to survive isnt there so they should have no reason beside being programmed to,to kill or harm anyone/thing so AI is good in theory Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options... Karta Posted August 3, 2003 Share Posted August 3, 2003 I suppose we are all just a bunch of atoms, but really I don't think that's so bad. The fact is that simply by being around other people we change into something different. That means that even if I AM made up of the same things as everyone else I'm still something unique. Which makes the individuality of humans even more amazing and wonderful. As for our freewill. . . I guess your right about that too. Everyone we ever meet somehow plays a very small part in each decision we make. I suppose that means that every person I know is writing this. Freaky, huh? However, I must disagree on the influence of a higher power. If your theory is correct then anything that HAS ever effected me was simply bunches of atoms. After all I?ve never met a god. Of course that could just be the atheist in me talking! Anyway, that's my perky obnoxious gibberish for the day! Thanks for the interesting thought, that will forever effect my personality, um, sort of. . . creepy. . . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options... FartMaster745 Posted August 4, 2003 Author Share Posted August 4, 2003 [size=1]This topic has changed me too Karta, now when I look at people and see what they are doing, I wonder, why?(I always do). So far the only answer I seem to accept and ask myself is "why not?", but I dont intend to spend the rest of my life trying to find the answer, instead, live my life and the answer.(That didn't make any sense at all but I'll leave it there) Akki Koroshiya, That thought of the will to survive never came across me. Now I change my mind and that I encourage the idea of AI then ;)[/size] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options... Guest special edward Posted August 5, 2003 Share Posted August 5, 2003 i think the purpose of life is to die. god cant die so he created us to see how my different ways there is to die and how many different senarios there are Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options... 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Mitch Posted August 1, 2003 Share Posted August 1, 2003 [size=1] We are created into conception from the forming of two cells. Before the forming of these two cells can happen, first the cells must undergo a somewhat differing form of mitosis (replication) in order to get the correct number of chromosomes so that we have the needed amount and nothing more or nothing less (I believe it is 46, if I am remembering off the top of my head correctly). These two cells then combine--the sperm cell, and the ovum. Once combined I believe they are called a zygote. (I am not sure. I am remembering right off the top of my head and it has been a while since I have gone over these things. Since Biology class last year.) These two cells are all of much that is needed to make us. They begin replicating over and over and over again until a fetus is made. This all happens without a single touch from a human--other than the mating which happens (like with all other mammals.) It all happens in a predetermined mesh of genes. Of the more potent and larger and standing-out genes, and those which are smaller. This is what makes us. The combination of chemically produced and made DNA/RNA which is the genepool of our bodies. The bitmap of us. But sometimes things go wrong. Things [i]do not happen the way they should and shall[/i]. Things bend themselves, and the process gets all messed up. Someone gets one more chromosome than they need, and BAM, they are totally not what they should have been. Things bend. They overthrow their natures. They overthrow themselves and create something new and different. Natural selection. That theory of Darwin's. That makes wonderful sense. Things that have mutations that are useful survive and continue bending things. What I have said is over my head a bit. Basically, I am trying to say that things are not ever what they seem. You can continue to break down from cell, atom, the other theorized smaller portions. But in the end it will not matter, because the more closer you go into something, the more very complex it will get. Just think about looking at your skin. With our eyes it appears to be just a natural thing. You can't see the cells...but when you go under the microscope, it gets harder to comprehend what you are seeing; harder to comprehend that you are looking at what was your skin. Basically, natures can be bent. Things can change themselves in weird fashions. Chemicals may and I believe are what cause a lot of the emotional mentality within a human. But I bet there's a lot more to it then we'll ever know. We are evolved creatures. These chemicals were built up and made and manufactured in a set way over a builing and building of the different forms of us (if you believe we evolved from some from of ape, which is my belief). But I believe if you were to truly try and understand why these chemicals are released and when and how they are created exactly right down to the smallest little prick you can name it down to, it would be too utterly complex to really tell you much of anything. A garble mess of information. Just look at our DNA structure. We are still not very much far in learning about it too much..it's just massive for how small it is. It's complex. It has its own language. And so on. Basically, knowing isn't really worth it that much. Once you know, then you're too close to becoming something more than human. And even if you know, things have a way of bending themselves. Like the way some people are double-jointed in their fingers and can pull them back all the way. It's the same. Some things are just made special out of mistake. Saying that, let's talk about physics. I believe there was something in Xenosaga which I recall that was about some paradox that if two objects are far apart or something, then it creates a paradox of some sort. I don't know. I didn't understand it too well. But it serves a damn good example. All we know about the way things fall and the way gravity inclinates could be very wrong. Sure, it's been put down into forumlas and things. But think about it. Numbers are only a creation of [i]ours[/i]. They might mean something, but really, all they are is slashes and crosses and dashes. That is all they are. We simply use them as a kind of unfaltered guideline of sorts. Words are the same. Basically, things can bend. I wish I could just imagine what it would be like in a black hole, and to know what is on the other side. Physics says, probably, that it is impossible to manage to survive in one; and also that it's impossible to travel the speed of light or faster. But there are ways to bend things. I have seen it in my own life, in much simpler ways. But things overdo what they're designed to. That's what I think thinking, well, deep thinking is in a way. Overstepping what these chemicals and things that are laid out for us and bending in a way. I don't know. But for the abstract thinking we have, it is much more than just chemicals and signals. Or perhaps it's something more we shall never fully understand. All I know is it doesn't matter to me. I will be long dead before a lot of good and solid new findings are found in science.[/size] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FartMaster745 Posted August 1, 2003 Author Share Posted August 1, 2003 [QUOTE][b]maladjusted [/b] [size=1] Well, if AI cannot be achieved by mankind, I guess that tells us that our own thoughts and decisions are not based on chemicals or atoms...[/size][/QUOTE] [size=1] Your completely right in a way. The thing is, I dont think programmers and scientist can give robots and computers emotion any time soon(or not even at all). I dont beleive that we should give computers AI because then they will become a creature. Whats so dangerous of a computer having AI and becoming the smartest artificial creature in the world? Well, what do all creatures desire? Power. You can program a computer to obey, but it will only be a matter of time until it turns on you because it learns and has access to every peace of information on this planet if it is connected online. [/size] [QUOTE][b]Mitch[/b][size=1] But sometimes things go wrong. Things do not happen the way they should and shall. Things bend themselves, and the process gets all messed up. Someone gets one more chromosome than they need, and BAM, they are totally not what they should have been. Numbers are only a creation of ours. They might mean something, but really, all they are is slashes and crosses and dashes. That is all they are. We simply use them as a kind of unfaltered guideline of sorts. Words are the same. [/size] [/QUOTE] [size=1] Deep, very deep. You seem to stress 'bend' a lot and I have to say that I agree. I have a lot of trouble with the idea that us humans have all of this knowlege in only a matter of 2 million years(when man first appeared), but then again things go wrong as Mitch said(for better or for worse). [/size] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Akki Koroshiya Posted August 1, 2003 Share Posted August 1, 2003 ah but see,a computer is not a creature and even if we do givce it an AI it has no will to survive,so its not a creature,the cannot reproduce unaided,they dont have a will to survive,they arent animals so the will to survive isnt there so they should have no reason beside being programmed to,to kill or harm anyone/thing so AI is good in theory Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karta Posted August 3, 2003 Share Posted August 3, 2003 I suppose we are all just a bunch of atoms, but really I don't think that's so bad. The fact is that simply by being around other people we change into something different. That means that even if I AM made up of the same things as everyone else I'm still something unique. Which makes the individuality of humans even more amazing and wonderful. As for our freewill. . . I guess your right about that too. Everyone we ever meet somehow plays a very small part in each decision we make. I suppose that means that every person I know is writing this. Freaky, huh? However, I must disagree on the influence of a higher power. If your theory is correct then anything that HAS ever effected me was simply bunches of atoms. After all I?ve never met a god. Of course that could just be the atheist in me talking! Anyway, that's my perky obnoxious gibberish for the day! Thanks for the interesting thought, that will forever effect my personality, um, sort of. . . creepy. . . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FartMaster745 Posted August 4, 2003 Author Share Posted August 4, 2003 [size=1]This topic has changed me too Karta, now when I look at people and see what they are doing, I wonder, why?(I always do). So far the only answer I seem to accept and ask myself is "why not?", but I dont intend to spend the rest of my life trying to find the answer, instead, live my life and the answer.(That didn't make any sense at all but I'll leave it there) Akki Koroshiya, That thought of the will to survive never came across me. Now I change my mind and that I encourage the idea of AI then ;)[/size] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest special edward Posted August 5, 2003 Share Posted August 5, 2003 i think the purpose of life is to die. god cant die so he created us to see how my different ways there is to die and how many different senarios there are Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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