Gaming Kingdom Hearts/FVII, it's a conspiracy!

[eleanor]

[size=1] Ok, this has been bugging me even since I laid my eyes on Sora and Riku. If you take Cloud and Sephiroth, and Sora and Riku, they look like each other.

I mean, Sora has spiky, unruly hair with bright blue eyes. Riku is a like a Sephiroth clone with shorter hair. Their relationship is somewhat similiar as well. Cloud looked up to Sephiroth when he was little, and I guess...Sora [i]sort of[/i] looks up to Riku. And Sephiroth and Riku were both stronger than Cloud and Sora. I mean...it bugs me sometimes. [I even made a comic about it, it kept on popping up into my mind][/size]

[Sniglefager]

It is kind of strange, but in my opinion, Cloud's stronger than Sephiroth, because [spoiler] Cloud killed Sephiroth in Nibelheim, even after he was stabbed, mind you.[/spoiler]

[zidane11]

It's pretty obvious why. They are made by the same company!!!! Why do you think there are Final Fantasy Characters in the Kingdom Hearts game anyways. Disney and Square teamed up for this game.

[GinnyLyn]

Sora's a lot more lighthearted than Cloud ever was. OK, not true--Cloud did seem likeable in that chibi flashback with Tifa.

I felt the exact same way about Riku and Sephiroth--same look, same attitude, same dark path. [spoiler]Power drives even the calmest insane. Poor poor Riku...[/spoiler]

[Sniglefager]

But Riku's not insane, is he? I mean, he [spoiler]was the original keyblade master, except he opened his heart to darkness to escape.[/spoiler] And the only reason he [spoiler]turned evil was because Malifecent tricked him into thinking Sora only cared about Goofy and Donald and not Kairi. Near the end though, I guess he was going kind of insane when he let Ansem take over his body. But he must've had some sense in him because he did stop Ansem from killing Kairi, Goofy and Donald when Sora was turned into a heartless, and he helped shut the door to Kingdom Hearts, so he can't be totally insane...[/spoiler]

[Charles]

[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by maladjusted [/i]
[B][size=1]And Sephiroth and Riku were both stronger than Cloud and Sora.[/size] [/B][/QUOTE]

That depends on what you measure true strength by.

Cloud and Sora both possess certain qualities that their respective counterparts do not. Traits like integrity, courage, compassion, selflessness, and the ability to stay true to oneself despite it all.

In fact, that last quality is one of the overriding themes of both games. Sora and Cloud are skeptical and less then willing participants in the roles predestined to them. Initially, they're driven by their own short-term motives, but as their stories pan out, they begin to accept who they are, and the responsibility that accompanies it.

From this, you can come to two conclusions.

1) Cloud and Sora are stronger than Sephiroth and Riku because they're pure in spirit.

2) Cloud and Sora are worthy of comparison. Which, isn't a big surprise considering many Square characters are of the same mold. They're pretty cliche in many cases.

There are a few key differences between Riku and Sephiroth. Riku, for example, isn't [i]completely[/i] selfish. His motives are pure--but tainted with jealousy and pride. On one hand, he wants to save Kairi, but on the other, [i]he[/i] should be the KeyBlade master. [i]He[/i] should win Kari's favor. He's very headstrong.

You can see his competitive nature from the outset of the game. You race him twice within the opening thirty minutes. lol

Thus, Riku is a good person--he's more of a gray character than Sephiroth.

And so, that brings me to my next point. I don't even know what the hell was going on with Sephiroth. The translation was pretty shoddy. Nevertheless, I'm well versed in all the theories that lead up to his fate and it almost reminds me of Lucifer falling from Heaven, I suppose. Just like Lucifer, he's a very flat character. There's that illusion of depth because he once was what he is no longer, but what he has become is very shallow. If you strip his character down, past the point of insanity when he mistakenly labeled himself as an Ancient, you've got a typical villain bent on world domination, really.

So, I'd say that any comparison between Sephiroth and Riku is aesthetic. ^^

I mean, honestly, Cloud's relationship with Sephiroth is completely different than Sora's with Riku. There's a real friendship there and you get the feeling that they care about one another.

Cloud just idolized Sephiroth from afar. It was like misplaced admiration. ~__^

[James]

[color=#707875]And, let's face it, a lot of these anime-styled characters look extremely similar by default. There are a million characters who remind me of Cloud and another million who remind me of Sephiroth. lol

So, it's not a conspiracy...I think it partly comes down to a lack of imagination. But it also comes down to a particular visual style that is being employed. [/color]

[Semjaza]

That's what you get when you design cliché anime/manga based characters in a good portion of your games. I've never been that impressed by KH's character design honestly. I liked the Heartless, but the main characters are kind of standard. FFVII is far better in this aspect, although I'm not overly fond of some of their designs either (but that goes for anything, really -- can't be perfect).

Bring back Amano! I will say right here that I am [i][b]extremely[/b][/i] excited about FFXII though, even though Amano isn't involved. I'm pretty sure that game is going to be awesome in every aspect thanks to the others in on the project. Mark my words. It will rock more than any FF so far.

In any case, Riku is older than Sora... so that makes sense even if you don't take the other stuff into consideration.

I can name 3,000 anime characters that have spiky hair and even more that have long hair and are dark and brooding. I'm sure Square was very aware of the similiarites between the KH characters and the FF ones, and it was likely a deciding factor in their final designs. They want people to be reminded of a game that did as well as FFVII did. Especially Sephiroth, as he is, without a doubt, their most popular character so far.

[eleanor]

[size=1] Yeah, may be lack of creativity. But I still have a nagging feeling in the back of my mind.

By 'strength', I meant physical strength. In both of the games' beginning (or the FFVII's real story's beginning), Sephiroth and Riku are stronger. I think Charles summed up the emotional strength well.

This is an article from a site called Strife [Cloud Strife shrine-thingy]. It has some spoilers for Final Mix, but keep in mind that Final Mix is [i]not[/i] the sequel, just a remake only coming out in Japan.


In Final Mix, a re-release of Kingdom Hearts in Japan with additional features, Cloud encounters Sephiroth at the Olympus Coliseum shortly after Sora departs. They share a cryptic conversation before clashing in an epic showdown appropriately titled the ¡°Showdown of Fate.¡± (Thanks gamefaqs.com for the text)

[b]Cloud:[/b] So we meet at last.
[b]Sephiroth:[/b] I was searching for you too.
[b]Cloud:[/b] As long as you exist, I can't wake from this nightmare. You are my darkness.
[b]Sephiroth:[/b] If that's so, I shall draw you into the darkness. Into the nightmare that forever deprives you of light, from which you can never awaken.


At this Cloud raises his sword as Sephiroth leisurely reaches for his. Both are charged with so much pent-up energy that their surroundings begin to tremble. All at once they charge, exchanging blow after blow at unimaginable speed before their conflicting energies push them apart. Sephiroth vanishes in a cloud of feathers, only to appear above Cloud with an out-stretched hand. Cloud flies towards him, sword poised, and the scene goes white.

This scene imposes many questions regarding Cloud's role in Kingdom Hearts, if it is ever to be expanded, as well as his past. Although it is very possible that this scene was simply added to appease fans, the obvious familiarity - not to mention strong contempt - between the two makes me wonder just where Square intends to go with this.

Much of the fan base seems to accept that the Final Fantasy characters came from their own worlds which mirrored the games they were originally from, meaning Cloud, Sephiroth, Aerith (Aeris), Yuffie, and Cid knew each other prior to the events of Kingdom Hearts through their adventures in Final Fantasy VII. This would certainly explain why Cloud despises Sephiroth so and why he allied himself with the god of the underworld to find Aerith. However, both Aerith and Leon (Squall) acknowledge the Hollow Bastion as their home and Ansem as their leader, suggesting that they have nothing to do with their original Final Fantasy incarnations. Which brings us back to square one: how do Sephiroth and Cloud know each other?

I think its safe to assume that whatever incident led to the showdown had much to do with Aerith. It is evident that Cloud has come to associate the two, calling Sephiroth his darkness and Aerith his light. Furthermore, it seems Sephiroth feels the same way, saying that he will lead Cloud further into the ¡°nightmare that forever deprives you of light.¡± The question is to what extent does she influence their past conflicts and how does she extend the present?

Ironically, it may be through the present that we uncover their past. Towards the end of the battle we see Sephiroth appear above Cloud and extend his hand as if inviting the other man to grab it. Interestingly enough this parallels a gesture committed by Sora¡¯s friend-turned-nemesis Riku at the game¡¯s beginning.

When considered, the similarities between the pairs are startling. Not only do Sora and Riku have very similar physical features when compared to Cloud and Sephiroth, but it is possible that the boys¡¯ story seems to be heading down the same path as that of the one winged angels.

As discussed in a previous section, it is possible that Cloud¡¯s single wing in KH is supposed to represent himself being tied to Sephiroth- each being the extreme of a human being and only ¡®complete¡¯ if somehow joined together. Interestingly enough, Final Mix also contains an extra scene that introduces a hooded man known as ¡°unknown.¡± Unknown makes some enigmatic remarks before challenging Sora to battle, as the script provided by The Ansem Report shows:

[b]Unknown:[/b] You look like him.
[b]Sora:[/b] What's that supposed to mean?!
[b]Unknown:[/b] Which means, you are not complete? Incomplete one... That power... Allow me to test your power. (A battle ensues)
[b]Unknown:[/b] Truly fascinating. This is going to be enjoyable.
[b]Sora:[/b] What're you talking about?
[b]Unknown:[/b] In your present state you probably cannot understand.

In any case, the time when we can meet again will doubtless come.
If such a theory proves correct, than Sora and Riku¡¯s story may unfold similarly to Cloud and Sephiroth¡¯s hinted past. Unfortunately, that still leaves many questions unanswered, like how Aerith fits in. It is possible that Aerith¡¯s role is similar to that of the object of Sora¡¯s affections, Kairi, but even her situation is complicated by new information introduced in Final Mix: We discover that Kairi is not a Princess of Hearts as previously thought, but in fact the result of an experiment by Ansem to find the Key Bearer. Hopefully, because most of the Disney villains have been defeated, the inevitably darker Kingdom Hearts II will have a more Final Fantasy tone and more back-stories will be revealed.
Until then, I don¡¯t understand any of this but will dress up my incompetence with this lengthy section.

[url]http://www.peach-arrow.net/strife/indexx.html[/url][/size]

[Dagger]

That was certainly a very interesting article. I really hope that the KH sequels are more Final Fantasy-like, and that they reveal more about the Final Fantasy characters.

I thought maybe Aerith's and Leon's worlds vanished kind of early on, and that they both ended up in Hollow Bastion, where Ansem was (at the time at least) king. It's possible that they lived there long enough to refer to it as their home, isn't it? Especially since they were talking to Sora, and he wouldn't know anything about either of their worlds.

Either way.... KH-2 should be awesome. ^_^

~Dagger~

[eleanor]

[size=1] Yeah...I'm hoping that Kingdom Hearts 2 will give us further information on Riku's and Sora's relationship. :P I'm very curious, anyway.[/size]

[Dagger]

Heh, well, who could blame you? I have to say that I liked Kindom Hearts more for the gameplay and the FF cameos than for its character development. The storyline was pretty solid, although rather predictable. I just wished that they'd taken the time to flesh out the relationships between Kairi, Riku, and Sora..... especially Riku and Sora, as you said.

~Dagger~