Becoming a Republic?

[James]

[color=#707875]I guess this is primarily a topic for Australian OBers, but some of you might have some interesting things to say too.

Basically, I want to ask Australian OBers if they support a Republic or a Monarchy.

At the moment, the Commonwealth of Australia is (obviously) a part of the Commonwealth of Nations. The Commonwealth of Nations are all monarchies, under Queen Elizabeth II.

Of course, Australia was originally established by the United Kingdom (like several other countries). And since then, Australia has been under the crown's justistiction, so to speak.

For those of you who don't know much about Australia, I'll explain the political system very roughly/briefly. Australia is a capitalist democracy. Our system of government is based on the English Westminster system, but it borrows elements of the United States Congressional system. So for example, we have a Prime Minister and a Shadow Ministry like the UK. And like the US system, we have two houses of Parliament (a House of Representatives and a Senate). Each state (of which there are six, and two territories) have a variation on that system.

Obviously, the Queen can't reside here. So, she has a representative here called the Governor General. The Governor General is basically a ceremonial position...he/she has no political power and doesn't maintain any responsibility in the Federal Government. However, the Governor General does have some constitutional powers (he/she can dissolve the Parliament under special circumstances, for example).

In any case, there's been a debate going on here for some years as to whether or not Australia should remain a monarchy under the Queen...or whether it should become a Republic.

A few years ago, a Constitutional Convention was held. It was basially a public debate, where different groups submitted arguments and ideas about how a Republic might work. There were a few "models" that were created. One model included a popularly-elected President (like in the United States) and other included a President that could be elected by a two-thirds majority of Parliament. There were others, but I forget 'em. lol

At the end, a referendum was held. There was only one model put forward. The model put forward was the "elected by two thirds majority of Parliament" one. And it failed.

However, most people suggest that it failed because of the model...not because people don't want to become a Republic. I agree with that idea. Most polls over here suggest that Australians want to be a Republic, but they want to directly elect the President.

It may seem strange to have a President elected by a two thirds majority of Parliament, instead of the people. But I think that needs to be explained.

The "President" (under all of these systems) would only replace the Governor General as a ceremonial Head of State. He/she would [i]not[/i] run the country on a daily basis and he/she would not be the head of the government. Under both models, we would retain a Prime Minister. We'd just add a President above the PM.

So the point is basically to keep things functionally the same...but to cut ties with the Monarch by replacing a Governor General with a President.

Also, the Governor General is not elected. He/she is selected by the Prime Minister, who then submits that suggestion to the Queen. The Queen can approve or deny the selection.

Also, there were suggestions that the national flag should be changed (ie: Union Jack removed). Some ideas were very basic, as they were the same flag...just without the Union Jack. Others were complete redesigns.

So I guess I want to ask two questions to Aussie OBers. First, do you support a Republic? And second...do you think we should change the flag if we become a Republic? If so, how would you change it?

------

Heh, that's a kinda long first post. o_O

But I haven't seen this issue discussed anywhere...so I thought I'd raise it. I'm interested to know what fellow Aussie OBers think. And I guess it might be nice to have a substantive thread up here once in a while. ~_^[/color]

[Meteora]

[color=green][size=1][i]Im not an australian Ober, but I have something to say in this. I think that you should become a republic, and you shouldnt change the flag. Why might you ask because on with a president I think everything would be easier. I dont know what it is like with out a president because I was born and raised in th U.S. I'm mainly saying President because its what im used to. And I like the flag so I would like for you guys to keep it.[/color][/size][/i]

[James]

[color=#707875]Hehe, well, I guess that the main point is that things wouldn't be functionally different. The Prime Minister would still be the "national leader", so to speak. The President would simply replace the Governor General...so, our President would be like Japan's Emperor, in the sense that he/she would be a figurehead with no fundamental powers.

I guess it's mostly a symbolic thing.[/color]

[Sara]

[size=1]Their President wouldn't have the same position as ours, really. It wouldn't be what you're used to, just a title you're familiar with.

I don't know about changing the flag. Flags can mean a lot to people, as funny (or serious) as that may sound. They symbolize the country in more than one respect, and changing them would be...strange. It's a pretty big statement. It would be sort of like renaming the country, or something... Not exactly, heh, but close. Saying, [i]that's not who we are anymore,[/i] and identifying yourself in a different way.

I mean, I'm not especially fond of the American flag, but I'd feel sort of lost if it were changed in any drastic way. /

I see where it's coming from--removing the Union Jack, I mean. Severing ties with the monarchy, and saying, again, [i]That's not who we are anymore.[/i] So, yeah, the purpose would be to make a statement, but I don't think it shoud be the government that decides that statement needs to be made. I think it should be the general populous who decides whether or not to alter it--[i]especially[/i] if people are looking at complete redesigns of the thing.

I'm a little out of sorts, so this post is more scattered than in probably should be. /[/size]

[Meteora]

[color=green][size=1][i]You have a point there Sara. I never thought of it that way. And you are right about the Flag. Im with you 100 percent with that one.[/color][/size][/i]

[James]

[color=#707875]I agree that the public should decide on changing the flag.

There was a design that was shown a while ago, which I kind of liked. It was identical to the current flag with one exception; the Union Jack was replaced with an insert of the Aboriginal flag. I liked that idea, because it kept what we have...but replaced a British link with an Aboriginal one. I think that's a very powerful statement.

Having said that, I do feel an attachment to the national flag. It's not something I think about in my daily life (I'm sure most Australians don't), but I do have a sense of patriotism about my country's flag. Changing it in [i]any[/i] way would definitely be very jarring. But it really does depend on the change...if an alternative was found that better represented the nation, I might go for it.

[/color]

[Transtic Nerve]

I like the British flag..... There's one on my car lol.

I'm kinda keen to the idea you're still a monarchy, so to speak, though not really. Technically you are a monarchy, but the Queen has little power. Even in Britain, like you said a "ceremonial position." And like any democracy or republic, you're mostly run from a senate/house elected by the people, right?

Let me try to understand this better. So if there was a president, as this model suggested, he would be a "ceremonial position" meaning he would have little power, just a figure head? I don't see how thats much change from what you have now, beside severing ties with the English technically. I guess it's all a mental state. Nationalism? I dunno.

[TheShinje]

[size=1] I agree with Australia becoming a republic. I think it would be a great Idea if you had your own president, and were not under the jurisdiction of the Queen. I wish that for New zealand as well lol. I also think that it'd be better off as replacing your Prime Minister, as in instead of Prime Minister John Howard, you have President John Howard. Basically just change the title of PM, and not have a Govenor General figurehead at all.

I also agree with Australians being able ot democraticaly elect their president, it'd be wierd to have the house of parliament "choose" their president.

I made you a design for the new australian flag too. Perhaps you could create your own "union jack" type thingy.
[img]http://www.otakuboards.com/attachment.php?s=&postid=459550[/img]

The idea here being that you create a symbol, that's like an identity for Australia, in my flag, I used the idea of turning the star currently under the union Jack, into the Australian symbol thing. [/size]

[James]

[color=#707875]Well, you have to remember that right now the PM chooses the Governor General. So a two-thirds majority of Parliament would actually be a bit more "democratic" in terms of choosing someone like that.

As for the star under the Union Jack...that is the Commonwealth Star. It has seven "arms". Six representing each state and the seventh representing the territories. If you replaced it, it might be worth having a seven-pointed-something...you know, symbols that have some kind of meaning to the country.

Anyway, I like your idea Shinji. It's nice to see that you actually designed an image instead of just describing it. ^_^

[/color]

[quote][i]Originally posted by Transtic Nerve:[/i][b]
Let me try to understand this better. So if there was a president, as this model suggested, he would be a "ceremonial position" meaning he would have little power, just a figure head? I don't see how thats much change from what you have now, beside severing ties with the English technically. I guess it's all a mental state. Nationalism? I dunno.
[/b][/quote]

[color=#707875]That's correct. However, it would mean changes to our constitution...to some of the most fundamental aspects of our political system. And there were apparently some people who were proposing a total rethink of our current system (so, just a President with more autocratic power than a Prime Minister...and no Prime Minister underneath).

I don't know which model I prefer. I only know that at this point, I'd rather have an Australian citizen as our head of state, as opposed to the Queen. I mean, technically, the Queen of Australia is our "national leader". It's weird, because we have been behaving pretty much as a republic for more than 100 years as it is.[/color]

[Patronus]

[size=1][color=700000][b]I have one question: Why is Australlia under Queen Elizabeth? I have nothing against the English, but she hardly does anything in power.

Was there some war or something?

Leh[/b][/color][/size]

[Baron Samedi]

I think we should become a monarchy. 1) Because lots ao Australians want to 2) Because i want to. On revision there is no particular reason, aside from to show that we are our own nation. well, not to show (we already have) but to make it official. I think that if we did, then the Union Jack should STAY on our flag. it is part of our History, and i feel attatched to it. Maybe a change could be- split the union jack in half (vertical cut) and replace half of it with the Aboriginal flag. That way it shows our two pasts joining (european and Aboriginal) and our Future as a main part (the Southern Cross), a future together as Australians. Accepting both our heritages, and moving into the future. I think that would be a good idea. We dont need a Governor General to show our ties to our past with Britain. Use the halfof the union jack to illustrate it.

****EDIT****
Logan- the British founded Australia. They landed here in 1788, and eventually claimed all of Terra Australis. So after our Federation (1901) they stepped partly aside, but our our 'mother country' so to speak. Thast why they have a (minor) role in our Government. We are part of the Empire. Kind of...

*****EDIT******

[James]

[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by Logan [/i]
[B][size=1][color=700000][b]I have one question: Why is Australlia under Queen Elizabeth? I have nothing against the English, but she hardly does anything in power.

Was there some war or something?

Leh[/b][/color][/size] [/B][/QUOTE]

[color=#707875]Australia is one of only a handful of countries to have been established without a war.

And Australia is also one of only a handful of countries to have been entirely democratic since its inception. So, those are a couple of little facts for yeh. ~_^

In terms of how Australia was founded...we were founded by Great Britain in the 1700s. This was actually during a time when Britain sent prisoners to the continent (or convicts, if you prefer). Over a period of decades, colonies formed in several parts of the country. And for many years, those colonies acted as seperate countries. Actually, the different colonies would sometimes talk to each other [i]via[/i] the British government...lol. They were somewhat competitive and suspicious of one another (the Sydney/Melbourne rivalry? Hehe).

But to cut a long and boring story short, the colonies all came together at the end of the 1800s and agreed to merge to form a single nation. And in 1901, Australia was federated. It was that year when Australia actually became an independent nation...with a treaty, and not a war. The first Parliament sat in Melbourne...but later, it was decided that a new city should be built as a national capital. During the 1930's, Canberra was built. So it's a very modern city. In fact, Parliament House was only completed during the 1980's. If you want to see a picture/info about Parliament House, you can visit this site: [url]http://www.aph.gov.au/[/url] The picture on the main page is the front face of Parliament House.

Of course, even though Australia became independent...it was still part of the Commonwealth of Nations. All nations in that group are part of the British Monarchy. It's kind of like belonging to the United Nations. The Commonwealth meets every few years (CHOGM - Commonwealth Heads of Government Meeting) and it has the power to impose sanctions on countries, to kick countries out of the Commonwealth, etc. There is even a "Commonwealth Games", held every few years. I'd say that only the Olympic Games would beat it in terms of size and scope.

So yeah, these days I guess you could say that the Commonwealth is basically like the UN or the WTO. It's an organization with various member states. But these states don't just "buy in" as such. Obviously you're only in the group if you're actually a part of the British Monarchy system.

Anyway, that's kinda longwinded...but I hope it answers your question. ~_^[/color]

[Red]

[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by Logan [/i]
[B][size=1][color=700000][b]I have one question: Why is Australlia under Queen Elizabeth? I have nothing against the English, but she hardly does anything in power.

Was there some war or something?

Leh[/b][/color][/size] [/B][/QUOTE]

[color=002E55]Australia was established by the United Kingdom, so they still have some form of presence there.

Even though I'm not from Australia (and to be honest don't much about Australia or it's government.. parliament eh? Guffaw), I think cutting ties with the English monarchy and becoming a republic would be a good idea, even if it is replacing it with a similar system.

As for the flag, getting rid of the English part would make sense if Australia did become a republic, but I can understand how people feel towards their countries flag; changing it might not please many people.[/color]

[Baron Samedi]

I hate it when people get posting an answer just before me.:toothy: Anyway Logan, all these definitions should help you understand about Lizzie and the way Australia works. It is a bit strange, but Australia is a pretty good place to be, i feel.

[Patronus]

[size=1][color=700000][b]Oh, great. Now I feel stupid. Um...lemme ask this: Is that why Austrians and Aussies sound alike?

Leh[/b][/color][/size]

[James]

[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by Logan [/i]
[B][size=1][color=700000][b]Oh, great. Now I feel stupid. Um...lemme ask this: Is that why Austrians and Aussies sound alike?

Leh[/b][/color][/size] [/B][/QUOTE]

[color=#707875]The short answer is: Australians sound nothing like Austrians. Austrians sound like Germans more than anything else.

The slightly longer answer is that Austria really has no role in Australia's history, in the same context as the UK. I think that people just mix the two up because "Austria" and "Australia" are kind of similar words.[/color]

[Baron Samedi]

Do you mean accent or names? I have never heard an Austrian speak actually i have (thinks Arnold Schwarzenegger) But the answer is no on both counts. Austria and Australia aren't even related. in any way. Im 98% sure of that. And we sound totally different. So i would say that it is just coincidence.