Avril is PUNK GOD!

[Drix D'Zanth]

I hope of you can appreciate my sick sense of humor here.. or how many Punk fans i'll be pissing off.

The Avril is teh punkest Theory (C)

Avril is the punkest rocker today. Perhaps some of you have seen her on the smaller networks like, oh, MTV. But the most intriguing part of Avril's career was the interesting switch in fanbase. Avril's audiences, before hitting the mainstream, were predominantly punk audiences. They loved her when she became mainstream.. the loved the "voice" it gave them. Suddenly, Avril fell a bit down on the charts and it became absolutely TABOO for any punk rocker to like Avril. "She is so fake" or "She is nothing punk" would sneer her former-fans as i would listen into their conversations about Ms. Lavigne. Then it occured to me. Avril had taken a group of people who loved the "genere against the genere" and pitted them directly opposite of her. My god.. how punk.

Allow me to elaborate. Punk is easily defined as "Going against the system". If you don't agree with that phrase as a more or less universal meaning of Punk, read no further. Everyone else following me? Good. Let's take the, arguably, first punk band, The Who. The Who created music that was never heard before, music AGAINST the mainstream. It was labeled as "Punk". Various other bands followed the Who's lead, creating punk bands of their own (i.e. the beloved Ramones). Then we have Avril. Avril here doesn't sing like the rest of the punk band.. she sings "pop (take this figuratively please)" , "soft rock" , and calls it PUNK! She is going against the SYSTEM that is PUNK! Therefore avril is inherently more punk than ANY other punk band. She is punker than Blink, punker than Sum, Punker than The RAMONES! She is the "punkest" thing since The Who!

*Braces himself* Ok, what are your thoughts?

[Mitch]

[size=1] And this matters to me how lol?

Hasn't she already had her 10 minutes of fame with her little "Complicated" song? I hope so.

Your description of what punk is is pretty interesting...but I sure as hell don't [i]call[/i] The Who "punk" lol.

So basically you're saying she is the most punk rocker today because she fell from the charts and made her fans hate her? O.o

Eh..sure.

Maybe it's that I don't really care. To me she was just another Britney Spears, Christina...whatever you want to call it. She was just another one of those types with a different kind of persona, if you will. And her music was more pop than anything from what I had heard. Well, as I see it, Punk is a fast type, loud music. But ah well.

I don't care.[/size]

[tattoi nobori]

Well... I can't really argue with your *ahem* logic...

But you'll certainly never find her between DRI and the 'Pistols in my cd case! ?_?

[Drix D'Zanth]

[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by Mitch [/i]
[B][size=1]

So basically you're saying she is the most punk rocker today because she fell from the charts and made her fans hate her? O.o

Eh..sure. [size] [/B][/QUOTE]

No no.. she is punk because of the music she plays. Its just ironic that the people who consider themselves "Punk" hate her. :P its a joke people!

[Mitch]

[size=1] I tried to get a definition of what exactly "punk" is...or whatever. This is what I got..from [url]www.dictionary.com.[/url]

[i]punk2 ( P ) Pronunciation Key (pngk)
n.
Dry decayed wood, used as tinder.
Any of various substances that smolder when ignited, used to light fireworks.
Chinese incense.

adj. Slang
Of poor quality; worthless.
Weak in spirits or health. [/i]

You know, I [i][b]seriously[/i][/b] think Avril could be all of these; oh, and hold on, there's more...*goes and gets*

These are even [i]better[/i] lol.

[i]Slang.
A young person, especially a member of a rebellious counterculture group.
An inexperienced young man.
Music.
Punk rock.
A punk rocker.

Slang. A young man who is the sexual partner of an older man.
Archaic. A prostitute[/i]

Okay. Let's start with the first one.

It says that a punk is one of those things that is used to light fireworks. Makes sense to me...I've heard of them. [i]"that smolder when ignited"[/i] also makes a lot of sense. Basically, I believe she's already had her "10 minutes of fame" lol. So it works for me.

[i]Dry, decayed wood used as tinder[/i]. Makes sense to me as well from anything I could say about her. She was basically just another Britney Spears with a different persona...but, like it says, it's just as decayed.

[i]Of poor quality; worthless[/i]...I agree. lol.

[i]Weak in spirits or health[/i]. Not sure how Ms. Lavigne is doing...but I don't see that this one really counts towards any blows I could give lol.

I love the last ones lol. An inexperienced young man/ a young man who is a sexual partner of an older man. O.o.

And of course, the archaic, or during Shakespeare's time, meaning. A prostitute. Makes good sense to me there. lol.

As you can tell, I hate her. For what reason I don't know. lol.[/size]

[Heaven's Cloud]

[color=indigo]Heh, I think this may make quite a few people upset, but right now pop=punk....with so many punk bands lighting up the pop charts right now boy bands are moving over and letting the punks take over. When any type of music develops a huge fan basis it enters the realm of pop.

As for Avril Levine...I don't think she is trying to be anything like Briitnay Spears nor do I think she is trying to be punk. It would be more correct to classify her with Michelle Branch and Vanessa Carlton...[/color]

[Drix D'Zanth]

in response to mitch's 2nd rply
AHAH thats gold.. i'll have to refer to it in my next "Avril is teh punkest" article. Awesome reply man! Shoulda thought of that myself. (though i was going by the vernacular definition of punk :P)

[Mitch]

[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by Heaven's Cloud [/i]
[B][color=indigo]

As for Avril Levine...I don't think she is trying to be anything like Briitnay Spears nor do I think she is trying to be punk. It would be more correct to classify her with Michelle Branch and Vanessa Carlton...[/color] [/B][/QUOTE]

[size=1] I agree there...but I still like Miss Vanessa and Miss Michelle eons better. But really, they also are sort of in rounds with Britney and stuff.

The only thing is they [i]actually have talent[/i]. That's how I see them differently...I guess. But heh, it's up to you to choose who your tastes in music are. So I have nothing against that.

I just don't like Avril when it comes down to it. There's certainly better out there that sounds like her music any day. Heh.[/size]

[Semjaza]

This has been beaten to death in every possible aspect by now.

I don't know how any punk audience ever considered Avril [i]anything[/i]. Before signing to that label and doing her whole "punk" thing, she was doing Sarah McLaughlan and country covers. I have no clue where this large punk fanbase who finally had a voice came from.

There was no ship jumping once she got popular by any fan of punk I know, especially because they, and I as well, cannot even consider her music even the most poppy form of punk. I don't see anything she does that even fits into the genre, honestly.

I have no clue how you came to that conclusion for that situation. If there are honestly people you know that thought of her in this light and then turned on her, I wonder how much they could possibly know about the genre in the first place. Naive and fickle people. I've never turned on a band for getting popular, although I have lost interest if they never evolve or change simply for popularity's sake.

I also think you are confusing punk music in general and the punk ideal. There is a rather large difference. There have been groups since punk's inception that have gone against the whole "rebellion" type of aspect, as well as those who have been concerned with their image to a very large amount... despite them being rather respected as punk bands. It seems to me that your posts are intertwining them as one, when it really hasn't worked like that in quite some time in most cases.

This is like saying Jethro Tull winning Best Metal Act in 1988 at the Grammys created some sort of rift between metal fans. It isn't even possible because there never was any thing to create a rift in. Jethro Tull's music itself is not metal, simple as that. Same idea here. You can make similiar analogies with hip hop groups, honestly... and no one calls them punk bands, even if many contain part of the punk ideal.

[satan665]

Ugh, this is kinda sad...You would have to admit no matter what that Avril was not the first peice of pop-punk music. Blink 182 was probably the first mainstream pop-punk. Really though she sounds more like a country singer to me. She just adopted the cliche punk "look" with her clothes, and even if thats the way she wants to dress thats fine. I dn't think anything like that makes her "punk", because even if the definition is blurry I think punk music should mean or stand for something. She just sings cheesy love songs. Of course the Ramones music didn't mean too much either....Who knows?

[Semjaza]

That might be because the Ramones are/were a pop-punk band as it is.

[Guest pantalaimon]

Im sorry but avril lavigne is is I can't say it i'll be banned she isn't very good and looks like sabrina the teenage witch oh dear god nnooooo!

[PiroMunkie]

[size=1]The difference between Avril and the Ramones is that the Ramones were just doing whatever could be considered [i]new[/i] and [i]out there[/i] (I believe one of them had about a week long rap career after they broke up), whereas Avril is simply doing it because she is getting paid. As Semjaza said, she is a country star gone "punk".

Avril is probably what Semmy and I would consider a [b]toy box band[/b]. ^__^ [color=#c0c0c0](it is kind of sad that Semmy will be the only one to get that, lol)[/color]

She is nothing but a little "ear candy" for all the little kids along the mainstream.


I used to literally shudder at the sound or sight of her name or visage, but then I figured she is not even worth [i]that[/i].[/size]

[Drix D'Zanth]

Ok guys, before we have any more replies.. i want whoever replies from now on to take this article SERIOUSLY i mean really people! This is NOT a joke. Read it! ITS REAL! I STAND BY MY LOGIC!


-_- please.

[satan665]

Punk music really has weird boundaries anyway. Early punk music; the Ramones were kind of a new style of music, but not really rebellious or idealistic. The sex pistols were really crazy, lived a punk/ druggie lifestyle and tried to piss off british royalty as much as possible, but they were pretty much designed to do that by a producer. You would like to give bands like social distortion and bad religion credit, but they weren't really pioneers. Punk music got mainstream with the lookout records type bands like greenday and rancid and moved on to the awful super-popish punk bands of today. All of which people who like to consider themselves punks call those bands sellouts. Its all mad confusing. I'd say if you consider Blink-182 punk, then you have to include Avril.

[amibasuki]

[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by Drix D'Zanth [/i]
[B]...Then we have Avril. Avril here doesn't sing like the rest of the punk band.. she sings "pop (take this figuratively please)" , "soft rock" , and calls it PUNK! She is going against the SYSTEM that is PUNK! [/B][/QUOTE]
[FONT=arial]no, that is STUPID! soft rock is not punk, and pop (or what most people consider to be pop) is not punk. therefore, her music is not punk. just like 3 plus 2 doesn't make 6. despite the fact that she insists that her music is punk, if it sounds like pop/etc., then it probably is, don't you think? she can wear her zipper ties and act like [i]a[/i] punk as much as she wants, but her music is not punk. [/FONT]

[satan665]

If I'm right, he's saying that singing pop music and soft rock and passing it off as punk music and herself as a punk, defies the regular conventions of the "punk music scene" . Doing this makes her more punk than the rest of them, if you accept what he said in the beginning of the post. (that was an ugly sentence) Thats what I took from it, and it sounds pretty good to me. I still hate her music though.

[Drix D'Zanth]

[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by amibasuki [/i]
[B][FONT=arial] just like 3 plus 2 doesn't make 6. [/FONT] [/B][/QUOTE]

Thank you for explaining to me the mathematics behind music! I don't think you get it.The fact that she calls soft rock/pop PUNK, IS punk, but a vernacular definition. Whatever genere her music falls into , the mere fact that she would claim to be "punk" is , well, "Punk".

I want you to try something Amibasuki, before you post any more replies, read through once, read through twice, create a diagram of the situation in your head. Then discuss with yourself what the topic means. Consider the possibility that the whole thing is a joke. Consider the posibility that mathematics and punk music MIGHT not go together.. Do that next time or you might come off as, you so aptly put it, "stupid."

[Semjaza]

All she made was an analogy with that statement. The math part was barely of importance. You can't add up two things and come up with something that shouldn't be the result.

If you consider calling yourself something you're not rebellion, I find that pretty strange. That's like me calling myself black to go against the "system" and remove the shackles of race. It makes little sense on any level, even if I take this thread as some sort of satire. It barely even fits the vernacular definition.

In any case, punk has gone from an idea to an actual, specific sound in the eyes of many people. There are certain things expected from the genre, just like with gothic or industrial music. Sure, they're not strict rules and they can be bent to hell and back... but Avril's music doesn't fit into even the most basics of it.

Considering the music aspect is what most people think of when they think "punk", rather than the vernacular or even the punk ideal... and combining that with the other things I've said, I fail to see the relevence. No one is going to get some epiphany and realize the error of their ways thanks to semantics.

[Drix D'Zanth]

I digress. Refer to my last sarcastic (for some of the slower amongst us ) post on page 1. Can a mod close this thread? It's really not like i'm trying to fight for this idea, I know as well as anyone Avril is not Punk. It's a friggin joke. No joke is worth being called stuipid, then having to try and support a veiw that you don't concur with. *sighs*

[Angelus]

Avril is about as punk as my right thumb. That being said, someone said that Blink 182 is punk just like Avril. To that statement I must say NAY!. Blink is not punk either. People must understand that these two entities are a sub genre many people like to call pop-punk. Because influences are both pop and punk. So follow me when I say that Blink and Avril are also not Pop. They are both Pop-Punk. They are neither pop nor punk. Okay, everyone.

As a side note, I dislike Avril. She is what I call a poser. She likes to think she is punk even though she is not. Posers in music disgust me. And yes this even includes Good Charlot for all you people who think that they might actully be punk. It saddens me that durring that last couple of years everyone and their dog think that they suddenly listen to punk music when they are actully just listening to a bunch of pop punk posers.

[Semjaza]

I guess we're all too stupid to see the hilarity... pfft.

Even when taken in a sartical light, which I did personally, this is a really dumb point to try to make in any aspect. It would never go over well here. As for me, I thought the things presented in here were worth addressing.... Really, was I supposed to just say "GOOD JOKE MAN LOLOL" and so on? I'm surprised some people were as offended by it as they were (or even at all), but whatever lol.

Anyway, I'll close it as per your request, heh.