Alabama State House?

[wrist cutter]

[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by DeathBug [/i]
[B]Since when?

Seriously, the obligation of spreading a dogma is one of the most misunderstood practices of the Christian faith. Where in the Bible does it tell you, abjectly and not within the context of a larger story, to try and convert everyone you can?[/B][/QUOTE]

Oh man, don't start talking to Justin about misunderstandings haha...

As I recall, it was said in the Bible that our purpose on Earth in the first place is to spread the word... and I doubt it was God's intention for us to spread the word by condemning people to Hell, either. I don't think that that's the best way to make someone a follower.

[eleanor]

[size=1][QUOTE][i]Originally posted by Drix D'Zanth [/i]
[B]Actually schools are the perfect place to teach religion.
[/B][/QUOTE]

No...no, it isn't. It's a very [i]bad[/i] place to teach religion.[/size]

[Transtic Nerve]

[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by maladjusted [/i]
[B][size=1]

No...no, it isn't. It's a very [i]bad[/i] place to teach religion.[/size] [/B][/QUOTE]

Actually, school is the perfect place to TEACH religionS, with an S. It's the perfect place to learn about religionS. It's the perfect place to get insight on religionS. Going to church is not learning a religion, thats following a religion. If you want to learn a religion, you have to be taught by an outside person. I was taught in school by an atheist. She by far my favourite teacher ever. She taught us not only about Christianity, but Islam, Buddhism, Hinduism, Judaism, and several others even. She didn't have a stand on one specific issue thus she could equally talk and share opinions on each of the religions. School is a great place to LEARN about religions, not to follow them. I see what you were thinking though.

Drix, I honestly don't read Socrates... he's too hard for me to understand in everything he does so I tend to ignore him or read Plato or someone who takes his ideals and makes them so much simpler. Even though I did understand what you said, I still didn't see how it incorporated into the argument of seperation of church and state. Which is why I didn't respond. It seems more talking about the actions of people and what they do on a free mind then what is written in law and what people do. My only true point is below which pertains to this topic, anything else is opinion.

Article 5, Admendment 1 of the Constitution of the United States of America states: [i]Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibbiting the free exercise thereof.......[/i]

As Thomas Jefferson stated [i]"..I contemplate with sovereign reverence that act of the whole American people which declared that their legislature should make no law respecting establisment of religion or prohibiting the free exercise thereof, thus building a wall of seperation between church and state."[/i]

There is a wall between church, any church, and the state, our government. That wall should not be breached. By placing a statue of the ten commandments in a state house, that wall is being breached. For now the government is respecting a certain religion. And thus, by constitutional law, this cannot be. This is my point. My point is not that it's wrong for Bush or this judge to believe in God.... my point is that talking about, reflecting upon, or putting statues in place that represent a certain religion is giving that religion respect in our government, and by doing so, that breaks our our constitutional laws.

[eleanor]

[size=1] For one, I believe Justin is admirable because of his devotion to Christianity. I admire anyone deeply devoted to his/her religion...I really do. Which actually makes little sense because I'm Athiest....but whatever.

I really don't care, as I said before, but if it isn't removed, it's violation the constituion. [i]And[/i] it is the spawning ground of many arguments about religion.[/size]

[Zephyr]

Frankly I find the fact that such a monument is illegal to be disgusting. This entire country was founded on Christian beliefs. I support that history behind the states, and I am strictly anti-religion (anyone calls me an atheist and I smack them, I am agnostic). I find this to be a slap in the face of this nation's history.

And lets be honest about one thing. The monument was of no harm to [i]anyone[/i]. The only reason it came up is because someone had to make their voice heard.


Okay, end of rant.

[Guest King_Cloud690]

Ya no what I say! I mean really if it offends u then dont look at it! It is as simple as that! Its not like people are making them look at the statue!

[TheShinje]

[size=1] I don't see what the big deal is. Perhaps it could be set up at Judge Roy's church, It's not like they're asking for it to be [b]destroyed[/b]

Besides that, it's an [i]engraved image[/i], an [b]Idol[/b] of the ten commandments, and that in itself is actually against the 2nd commandment.

They should take it and set it up where they want, and then do something more uselful, like prech the good news, or even visit persecuted Christians arund the world. [/size]

[Transtic Nerve]

There isn't an argument whether it offends anyone or not. The only argument here is if it defys the first admendment, which it does. Therefor, it should be taken down regardless if it offends any one or not.

The deabte whether or not this country was founded on Christian ideals is irrelevant. What does the constitution say? I quoted it. I quoted the man who helped write much of it. Both saying that there is a seperation of church and state. This statue, of Christian origin and representing Christian beliefs, was placed in a state house. This is clearly a violation of the constitution. Any other argument or opinion is irrelevant, you're all looking at it fom the wrong way.

Bush could go "I'm taking away your right to free speech and freedom of assembly. IE: You can't protest against the war."... well hell, thats not harming anyone, so should Bush be allowed to do it? Ofcourse not. Look at it from the view of the constitution and what America's basis is on, not from your opinons on whether or not it offended anyone. Hell it offends me to be in there, so now it offends someone, so it should be removed. Happy now?

[DeathBug]

[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by Black_Phoenix [/i]
[B]
And lets be honest about one thing. The monument was of no harm to [i]anyone[/i]. The only reason it came up is because someone had to make their voice heard.
[/B][/QUOTE]

Actully, that's not true. The ACLU and the Association for the Seperation of Church and State actually go around looking for things like this and then turn them into media circuses to get their point out. That's what happened in this case: they were looking for a fight to begin with.

(I'm on the fence regarding this fact of the events: I agree with seperation of church ands state, but I'm noy sure I agree with the ambush tactic. We have enough media circuses that occur without anyone trying; we don't need anyone going out and causing them.)

And of ourse the issue regards constitutional seperation of C & s. It was *never* about other people being offended. Contray to popular belief, no one has the right to not be offended.

[Drix D'Zanth]

First off, I've been gone, so I hope this thread isn't dead, but I like the way the conversation is evolving! Secondly, Transtic Nerve, I don't want to seem like I'm picking on you, but you are actually the only opposing side of this argument that I belive has posted enough substantiation for me to put effort into rebuttle. I'm replying because while i respect and understand you opinions, I disagree. Ahhh, dialectics.

[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by Transtic Nerve [/i]
[B]Actually, school is the perfect place to TEACH religionS, with an S. It's the perfect place to learn about religionS. It's the perfect place to get insight on religionS. Going to church is not learning a religion, thats following a religion. If you want to learn a religion, you have to be taught by an outside person. I was taught in school by an atheist. She by far my favourite teacher ever. She taught us not only about Christianity, but Islam, Buddhism, Hinduism, Judaism, and several others even. She didn't have a stand on one specific issue thus she could equally talk and share opinions on each of the religions. School is a great place to LEARN about religions, not to follow them. I see what you were thinking though. [/B][/QUOTE]

I agree. It's about learning religions, not following them.


[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by Transtic Nerve [/i]
[B] Drix, I honestly don't read Socrates... he's too hard for me to understand in everything he does so I tend to ignore him or read Plato or someone who takes his ideals and makes them so much simpler. Even though I did understand what you said, I still didn't see how it incorporated into the argument of seperation of church and state. Which is why I didn't respond. It seems more talking about the actions of people and what they do on a free mind then what is written in law and what people do. My only true point is below which pertains to this topic, anything else is opinion. [/B][/QUOTE]

Plato? Simple? Have you READ plato? If anything plato went onto a tangent, described the world as having two realities, the perfect and imperfect that mirror eachother. God he couldn't get the idea of a REPUBLIC in order, despite his book "The Republic" .. intriguing. As for socrates, well, I'm just describing something about reletivism, and the maligned impression of POLITICAL CORRECTNESS (ironic term, isn't it?). I'll come back to this later.

[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by Transtic Nerve [/i]
[B]Article 5, Admendment 1 of the Constitution of the United States of America states: [i]Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibbiting the free exercise thereof.......[/i] [/B][/QUOTE]

WELL WHAT DO YOU KNOW! Your only defensve argument, the constitution, is INVALID. Don't you realize that George bush can PRAY on TV, ask the PEOPLE of the untied states to become BUDDHIST or whatever, and he wouldn't be breaking a law? Granted, he probably wouldn't be re-elected, but he wouldn't be making any "law". This also means the statue isn't BREAKING any law, but in fact means, congress CANNOT take down the memorial, THAT would be defying this amendment. What does this mean? I could create a church on state land, and congress cant pass a law saying it can be torn down, that would be "prohibiting the free exercise thereof.." What do you know! Thanks! I thought I was going to have to track this stuff down because , well , considering there is no such thing as the "SEPARATION OF CHURCH AND STATE." I didn't see ANY of those words, except of within there. You realize the law is to PROTECT the church and religion from the STATE, NOT Vice versa!
Oh, I'm feeling all warm and fuzzy inside. I should probably stop.

[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by Transtic Nerve [/i]
[B] As Thomas Jefferson stated [i]"..I contemplate with sovereign reverence that act of the whole American people which declared that their legislature should make no law respecting establisment of religion or prohibiting the free exercise thereof, thus building a wall of seperation between church and state."[/i] [/B][/QUOTE]

Quote Tommy all you want. He's also the guy that said "We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness...." Well holy ****. The country belives in a creator. You know why they are endowed by their Creator? Because It will be the day hell freezes over before life is endowed by fellow man. Oh, the document this was quoted from was The DeclarationOf Independence.

[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by Transtic Nerve [/i]
[B] There is a wall between church, any church, and the state, our government. That wall should not be breached. By placing a statue of the ten commandments in a state house, that wall is being breached. For now the government is respecting a certain religion. And thus, by constitutional law, this cannot be. This is my point. My point is not that it's wrong for Bush or this judge to believe in God.... my point is that talking about, reflecting upon, or putting statues in place that represent a certain religion is giving that religion respect in our government, and by doing so, that breaks our our constitutional laws. [/B][/QUOTE]

No the wall would be breached, ACCORDING TO THE DIRECT WORDING OF THE DAMN CONSTITUTION, if congress passed a LAW saying they "could NOT" have the statue their. The government respects all religions through allowing any religion to be practiced UNIPEDED by LAW! Including statues of Christianity. You don't realize the ten commandments arent a cross, they are a MORAL GUIDE. I hate it when people piss and moan because it happened to be mentioned in the old testiment. If it were a buddhist moral guide, people wouldn't go up in such a ferverent reaction would they? No, at least I wouldn't. This statue represents :
1. Don't Kill
2. Don't screw with anyone but your wife (alot of people still hold RELIGIOUS practices like marriage sacred.)
3. Be nice to your parents
4. Be nice to your neighbor (fellow man).
5. Don't steal.

The rest of the commandmants deal with a monotheistic god. I see thats where the heat comes from right? Cause it mentions GOD? Well why aren't you pissing and moaning about Judaism or Islam, the other two major religions that belive in the Ten Commandmants. Cause it is always about CHRISTIANITY. You, like many others, have it out for christianity in particular, even thought it was Judeo-CHRISTIAN philosiphy that even allows you to voice such opinions against people in such a fashion. Irony in platinum.

[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by Transtic Nerve [/i]
[B]There isn't an argument whether it offends anyone or not. The only argument here is if it defys the first admendment, which it does. Therefor, it should be taken down regardless if it offends any one or not. [/B][/QUOTE]

Well then, i guess your argument is rebutted, cuase it DOESNT defy the amendment, and you revealed if the Federal Gov't got involved, well then it WOULD defy the amendment.

[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by Transtic Nerve [/i]
[B] The deabte whether or not this country was founded on Christian ideals is irrelevant. What does the constitution say? I quoted it. I quoted the man who helped write much of it. Both saying that there is a seperation of church and state. This statue, of Christian origin and representing Christian beliefs, was placed in a state house. This is clearly a violation of the constitution. Any other argument or opinion is irrelevant, you're all looking at it fom the wrong way. [/B][/QUOTE]

There's no such thing as separatin of church and state, please stop saying that. It's not in the constitution. Hell we just SAW ITS absence! :) Oh ya, I've got bad news for you: Thomas Jefferson Did NOT write ANY part of the united states constitution. Looks like someone didn't study their history! Feel free to burn me if I'm wrong, just give me a weblink telling me that he had any part. Also, you forget the constitution IS NOT LAW. The constitution is a guideline to CREATE LAW UPON, because the constitution can be changed!


[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by Transtic Nerve [/i]
[B] Bush could go "I'm taking away your right to free speech and freedom of assembly. IE: You can't protest against the war."... well hell, thats not harming anyone, so should Bush be allowed to do it? Ofcourse not. Look at it from the view of the constitution and what America's basis is on, not from your opinons on whether or not it offended anyone. Hell it offends me to be in there, so now it offends someone, so it should be removed. Happy now? [/B][/QUOTE]

That would be harming people. Do you know why? You seem to think that HARM is only on the physical sense, or at least that's how you approached it in what you just wrote. No he would be INFRINGING and thus HARMING peolple (I know I would be emotionally crushed ;) ) if he took away our RIGHTS. But the fact is BUSH has nothing to do with it. I wish you understood the purpose of the Federal Gov't . Liberalism today has grown to nearly the point of mild socialism. STOP ASKING THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT TO TELL PEOPLE WHAT TO DO. The federal government should only be involved with TAXES and the MILITARY (granted there are institutions that are significant like postal system , etc) . People should realize that we are starting to create a government that controls the people now , instead of vice versa. I think freedoms should be limited to the fine line where it prevents the INFRIGMENT upon anothers opinion. I'm sorry but being OFFENDED at someone isn't breaking a law. I offend people every day, vice versa (suprising, no?), but there is nothing I can do about it. People can call me an "*******" and I can sit down on the sidewalk and pray that god forgive them, no laws are broken. THAT IS THE BEAUTY OF THE US.

Oh ya, sorry about caps. I'm trying to put emphasis on certain words, but I'm too lazy to use the bold or italics feature. Heh. Don't use that against me ok? :p Please reply, I'm having so much fun with this.

[Justin]

[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by Leh [/i]
[B][size=1][b]Preaching should [i]stay[/i] in churches and shouldn't be sitting in the Court of Law.[/b][/size] [/B][/QUOTE]

Then how would the Gospel be spread? lol...it wouldn't. Preaching in church is great, but why should anyone hear the Gospel twice until everyone has heard it once?

Now, as I said, it has no place in that court room. But I'll be preaching in my schools, and here, and anywhere else the Holy Spirit leads me to.

I'm sorry, but I'll continue to practice what I believe.

-Justin

[Drix D'Zanth]

Hey Justin, you've got every right to do so man. More power to you.

Godbless
-Drix

[Transtic Nerve]

I feel no need to comment any further. I have said what I need to say and thats how I see. The constitution is not law, it's a platform of rights given to us. The right NOT to be forced to have a religion, by placing a statue of Christian background in a state building, I feel that the state is choosing a religion for itself, and as a person under the state, I feel it being choosen for me.

If there's no seperation of church and state, then I hope this country becomes a Christian theocracy, then I hope you all die from some holy war you have with muslims. This is absolutely ridiculous. This whole thread brings shame to what America should stand for. If I wanted to see a god damn statue of the f-ing ten commandments, I'd go to a god damn church, not a f-ing court house. I hope that makes my point clear enough to understand without being torn apart by people who don't believe in the fundamentals of their very own country!

[Drix D'Zanth]

[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by Transtic Nerve [/i]
[B]I feel no need to comment any further. I have said what I need to say and thats how I see. The constitution is not law, it's a platform of rights given to us. The right NOT to be forced to have a religion, by placing a statue of Christian background in a state building, I feel that the state is choosing a religion for itself, and as a person under the state, I feel it being choosen for me.

If there's no seperation of church and state, then I hope this country becomes a Christian theocracy, then I hope you all die from some holy war you have with muslims. This is absolutely ridiculous. This whole thread brings shame to what America should stand for. If I wanted to see a god damn statue of the f-ing ten commandments, I'd go to a god damn church, not a f-ing court house. I hope that makes my point clear enough to understand without being torn apart by people who don't believe in the fundamentals of their very own country! [/B][/QUOTE]

I'm not going to belittle you or your post. I'm not even going to scrutanize your opinions, as this discussion has already lead my rebuttles. Understand though, your opinions and mine are what create this country, opinions started it, opinions defined the constitution. It's where you direct the opinions that matters, and in what context. I do wish for you to understand that no fundamentals are being torn apart, that I belive in the fundamentals of the united states, but don't agree that a fundamental "no religion in the government" policy exists.

I have to ask you these questions, and I do hope you reply. If you don't have a paper like the constitution created for you, how do you base your fundamentals? How do you justify saying everyone has unailiable rights? How would you re-write the consitution? What would rationalize your opinion over another persons? What greater absolute truth do you look towards?

I would like to understand where you come from.

[Transtic Nerve]

[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by Drix D'Zanth [/i]
[B]but don't agree that a fundamental "no religion in the government" policy exists.[/quote][/b]
Well obviously it doesn't exist, Bush continues to use his religion every day in his policy for this country.

[quote][b]If you don't have a paper like the constitution created for you, how do you base your fundamentals?[/quote][/b]
Fundamentals on what? I have fundamentals on this country based ont he platform it was created upon and which it still stands. If this was an issue of pure opinion I'd say to hell with the stupid statue, I don't believe in it anyway. I wouldn't think think twice about saying it should be removed just because I don't like it. But I don't say what I say because of that, i say it because i believe this country has a spereration of church and state clause, IMPLIED, in our consitution. If I had to take this to the supreme court and have them decide, I would, and I'd hope they'd agree and everything would be settled. But I can't so I won't know. Anyway, I base my own fundamentals off of how I was raised and my own beliefs and morals. I'm sure if I was born somewhere that wasn't the US or by people who werent like my parents, they'd be different. But obviously my environment has effected my way of life, and I honestly can't tell you what I would be thinking fundamentally without living here or knowing about America, cause thats not how I've lived. I guess I'd know when I move out of this country and live in another one, but I haven't yet so I can't tell you.

[quote][b]How do you justify saying everyone has unailiable rights?[/quote][/b]
Our constitution says so. The Fist Amendment says so. People have the right given to them by our government in this "free" country. However those rights are never fully envoked. No one is free. I'm certainly not free. Hell I can't even legally get married, I'm consistantly discriminated again, and I'm shuned upon by my own president... Thats not freedom (esspecially ironic since the guy leading the country of the free is the one taken all my freedoms away) But I still have those rights given to me by the Bill of Rights, hence it's name, and I intend to envoke those rights to the furthest potential possible. The government consistantly takes away our freedoms and we consistantly stand back and let them and I refuse to do that. I refuse to stop speaking out against this, I refuse to give up my right to privacy, and I refuse to do alot of things for this country, cause it's my right to. And I won't let that right be taken away from me, like others so easily do.

[quote][b]How would you re-write the consitution?[/b][/quote]
Good question. First and formost it would say in lettering in the first admendment

Amendment I: Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof. There shall be no existance of any religion within state property, policy making, and decisions based thereon, thus creating a speration between church and state.......(the rest here)" (this would obviously include the removal of any religious articles or peices in state property. Praying ins chool would automatically be disallowed. God, Yaweh, Allah, and any likes there of will no longer, or not at all, be mentioned in or on anything issues or anything representing the United States of America. I'm sure we can all come up with something a little btter than "In God we Trust" on our pennies. I mean come on lol.)

Amendment II: I would remove the part that says "... the right of the people to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed"

Amendment XXVIII: The Electoral College shall be abolished. Presidency/Vice Presidency will be determined by a populus vote.

Amendment XXIX: Supreme Court Justices shall serve a first term of no more than ten years. They may be appointed to a second term of no more than five years if the president at the time of the first terms ending chooses to do so.

Amendment XXX: Freedom and Equality to all peoples of American citizenship. Regardless of gender, age, race, handicap, sexual orientation, religion, and so forth. These peoples will have the right to envolve themselves, personally (keyword), with whatever they so choose to do, as long as it does not infringe on the life or the rights of their fellow Americans or the life of any such living animal. No persons or group thereof shall be treated with anymore freedoms or oppportunitys of equality than the other. (ie: Gay marriage, adoption, no discrimnation in the public workplace, etc)

I would obviously have some professional word these a little better.

[quote][b]What would rationalize your opinion over another persons?[/quote][/b]
Freedom of thought. I despise people who use things to explain their own thoughts (even though I'm quite aware I did such thing in this very own thread, but it was obviously part of the explaination needed, although I've given my true opinion of what I'd do above) I don't like it when people base their thoughts off of what '"God says"... "God said this" "Jesus said that"... i don't give a f**k. I wanna know what YOU say. I esspecially love the argument "being Gay is unnatural cause God created Adam and Eve and not Adam and Steve"... How am I supposed to take that argument seriously when all you are doing is a) making a joke (the name Steve wasn't even around back then) and b) basing your whole argument off of a book lol. I want YOUR reasons, not the bible's reasons. Not God's reasons. You're not God. You think differently than God, whether you think so or not. If I wanted God's answer I'd ask that tall bastard myself. If people can give me a true answer, based on what they think, I will respect that person so much more. thats why I highly respect Gokents. I don't agree with a damn thing the guy says, but dammit, he uses facts and his own opinions, not some other guy's opinion that he liked lol and that makes me respect him in such a higher degree than anyone else. When I talk to him or debate with him, I do it in such a manner where I give him the respect he deserves yet stillt ry to prove him wrong. I am guessing this is what you meant by your question. if not, please elaborate on the use of "rationalize" in this specific context.

[quote][b]What greater absolute truth do you look towards?[/B][/QUOTE]
I am not sure I understand exactly what you mean by this. What type of answer are you looking for? The absolute truth of God? Of this country? of the world? It's people? All of it and then some?

[Drix D'Zanth]

TN thank you for replying, you answered most of my questions. The question i was trying to ask is really how would you justify the right to life WITHOUT the consitution? I mean, how would you create the constitution then say that we all have an unaliable right? Would it be determinate of popular vote? Would it be determinate of the current political leader? Is human logic to be trusted upon, when we have seen human morals change and fail, resulting in horrific human disasters? How can you trust anything EXCEPT the moral guidleines of a higher being?

I'm not trying to prove a point in this post, I need to clarify my questions a bit better. I want to understand TN's opinion a bit more.

[Justin]

[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by Transtic Nerve [/i]
[B]I feel no need to comment any further. I have said what I need to say and thats how I see. The constitution is not law, it's a platform of rights given to us. The right NOT to be forced to have a religion, by placing a statue of Christian background in a state building, I feel that the state is choosing a religion for itself, and as a person under the state, I feel it being choosen for me.

If there's no seperation of church and state, then I hope this country becomes a Christian theocracy, then I hope you all die from some holy war you have with muslims. This is absolutely ridiculous. This whole thread brings shame to what America should stand for. If I wanted to see a god damn statue of the f-ing ten commandments, I'd go to a god damn church, not a f-ing court house. I hope that makes my point clear enough to understand without being torn apart by people who don't believe in the fundamentals of their very own country! [/B][/QUOTE]

I'm sorry you feel your life-style is chosen because someone with political authorty over you has chosen to publically display his. That's quite sad.

I actually hope the United States doesn't become some Christian theocracy. Look what it did for Europe.
You're so ignorant, Chris. Christianity is not about an 'holy war' between nations and peoples. The war is spiritual, and Christians should be soldiers rallying to the Standard of His Name. Our weapons are not deadly, they give life. If any blood is spilled, it should be(it [i]will[/i] be) our blood. That is following Jesus--not any holy crusade of 'killing for Christ'.

By the way, God does not damn anyone. People damn themselves. Therefore, you use of that expression further demonstrates ignorance.

Drix: I do not know what salvation you claim, but I hope it is not by Christ. Your language alone demonstrates your lack of the Blood, because Jesus never swore in preaching the Gospel.

However, if you're just one of those few who is not a Christian, but believes and knows about the Lord, then I thank you for your encouragement, and I'll pray for you.

I, too, think I'll wash my hands of this topic now. I've made all the points I can make.

-Justin

[Drix D'Zanth]

[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by Justin [/i]
[B]
Drix: I do not know what salvation you claim, but I hope it is not by Christ. Your language alone demonstrates your lack of the Blood, because Jesus never swore in preaching the Gospel.

-Justin [/B][/QUOTE]

Profanity is subject to the times. A-ss wasn't profane until the later 19th century, and then it was a common insult, not a horribly taken word. I would hope that god wishes me to claim salvation, for that is what I belive in, Jesus. I recognize the fact that I am a sinner despite what profanity is used, and I realize that I am human much like you or anyone else on this board. I do NOT however choose to condemn one's faith , especially condemning them through Christ, for god's message is one of FORGIVNESS not conviction. I pray for forgivness of the sins i know that I may commit or unintentionally commit, I do not ask myself to be perfect in this, but I ask that god work through me. I hope that you do not attempt to take the judgment of the Lord upon yourself, Justin. I appreciate that your prayers are with all of us, and my prayers are with everyone likewise.

-Drix

[Transtic Nerve]

[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by Justin [/i]
[B]
You're so ignorant, Chris. Christianity is not about an 'holy war' between nations and peoples. The war is spiritual, and Christians should be soldiers rallying to the Standard of His Name. Our weapons are not deadly, they give life. If any blood is spilled, it should be(it [i]will[/i] be) our blood. That is following Jesus--not any holy crusade of 'killing for Christ'.[/quote][/b]
Never said it was. I used what youa re refering to as a rebuttle attempt. Religion has a BIG BIG BIG background of "hate" believe it or not. Whatever you say maybe what you think but it's not true. Most of what religion has done in the past is harm and kill people. Some take religion differently, kinda like you, but the majority of your representatives in Christianity and those of Jewish and Muslim have all represented religion as something so right it's worth killing and dying for. And thats not what it's about as you said. But thats what happens. SO blame your fellow Christians, blame the Jews, blame the Muslims, blame everyone, but you cannot represent the whole of your religion. Your religion is represented by th majority of the people who call themselves Christians and you are not them. If you want to blame anyone for how I precieve Christianity, blame Christians. Cause they are the ones who did what they did in the past and continue to do today, not me.

[quote][b]By the way, God does not damn anyone. People damn themselves. Therefore, you use of that expression further demonstrates ignorance.[/quote][/b]
I only use cuss words to emphasise my point. the use of "God Damn" is simply to add umph to what I am saying. I don't actually believe God would damn a church or a statue. Since those words have no meaning to me, I solely use them as emphasistic words. How you precieve them, well thats not my problem.

[quote][b]Drix: I do not know what salvation you claim, but I hope it is not by Christ. Your language alone demonstrates your lack of the Blood, because Jesus never swore in preaching the Gospel.

However, if you're just one of those few who is not a Christian, but believes and knows about the Lord, then I thank you for your encouragement, and I'll pray for you.[/B][/QUOTE]

Dunno about you, but that is just as about as ignorant as one can be. Shame on you for judging others before yourself. God is not the world. Maybe to you he is, but to me, he's not. I speak as an open minded person who is not blinded by a faith, who's decisions are not obstructed by a belief. I believe in God, but he does not obstruct my free will given to him by me. He shouldn't obstruct yours either.

[Drix D'Zanth]

[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by Transtic Nerve [/i]
[B]
Never said it was. I used what youa re refering to as a rebuttle attempt. Religion has a BIG BIG BIG background of "hate" believe it or not. Whatever you say maybe what you think but it's not true. Most of what religion has done in the past is harm and kill people. Some take religion differently, kinda like you, but the majority of your representatives in Christianity and those of Jewish and Muslim have all represented religion as something so right it's worth killing and dying for. And thats not what it's about as you said. But thats what happens. SO blame your fellow Christians, blame the Jews, blame the Muslims, blame everyone, but you cannot represent the whole of your religion. Your religion is represented by th majority of the people who call themselves Christians and you are not them. If you want to blame anyone for how I precieve Christianity, blame Christians. Cause they are the ones who did what they did in the past and continue to do today, not me. [/B][/QUOTE]

Christians know that they are like everyone else, human. We are all sinners in the eye of God, the difference lies within our ability to find salvation, that we do not fall into moral degridation through a relationship with god. No Christian chooses to kill or harm someone because of their religion, that is the sin, yet the grace of God is always behind him to save humanity from their sins. Remember it has been HUMAN AGENDA, and UNRELIGIOUS PHILOSOPHY that has caused the most deaths, not religion. Religion has been used in the past as an excuse or veil to hide wicked people, the Crusades, for example. I do not belive that if someone kills my mother claiming to be a christian, that christianity is at fault, or any of the honest christians. Thou Shalt Not Kill is a commandmant, and those who wish to bear true witness to god shall follow it.

[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by Transtic Nerve [/i]
[B]Dunno about you, but that is just as about as ignorant as one can be. Shame on you for judging others before yourself. God is not the world. Maybe to you he is, but to me, he's not. I speak as an open minded person who is not blinded by a faith, who's decisions are not obstructed by a belief. I believe in God, but he does not obstruct my free will given to him by me. He shouldn't obstruct yours either. [/B][/QUOTE]

Thanks for the support TN but Justin and I worked it out through private message, we were both at fault in some situations, and we realize that we are both human. We have forgiven one another and I belive God's grace has also forgiven us too. This is now in the past, please do not bring those words up. I recognize your defense, and I'm not trying to belittle it though TN.

[lea]

[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by Transtic Nerve [/i]
[B]As for the argument this country was founded on Judeo-Christian ways. Yes in a sense, because that was pretty much the only two religions prominant in this world. It wasn't founded on Muslim ideals or it'd be more like the middle east. It was founded on what i consider COMMON SENSE. Every government in this world has laws against killing, against crime, against many of what America has laws and values for. But alot of those other countries aren't Judeo-Christian countries.... Japan certaily isn't yet they have many of the same laws America has... it's common sense, it has nothing to do with religion.. [/B][/QUOTE]
lol, i am guessing that you dont know that the 10 commandments are in the muslim religion, too, right?
meh, all the 10 commandments are are just common sense rules....dont steal, and the such. but, if its going to raise such a ruckus, it should be moved.

[Drix D'Zanth]

Alright, let's not bring this thread back.. it's been a bleeding rock for it's entire existence. If anyone wants to read about everything conceivable concerning the Alabama State House, they can right here.. there's nothing more to discuss.

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