Anime Demons, witches, and spirits, Oh my...In anime that is!

[Hinata]

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Throughtout my experience at Otakuboards.com, I have seen various people talking about demons, spirits and other things in anime that just don't boad well with their personal beliefs or religion. Well here I wish for you to talk about why you feel that way. This is a chance for you to express you opinion.

Please note the following things before posting....

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1. No argueing whatsoever...you cant make people change ther ideals so don't agrue about it here please or a moderator will close it.
2. No spam. Post only one time and if someone speaks to you directly PM them with your answer or a moderator will close it.[/U][/B][/SIZE]

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I want this to e a chance to say see what people think that way we can learn abot our fellow 'otaku' even more.
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I personally don't mind things that are present in anime, wheter it be demons, spirits, ghosts, witches, vampires, whatever. They are apart of many cultural folklore and have a right to be talked about to this day. The reason artisits and creature put them within their works is to express just that. [Their opinion or thoughts, or flights of fantasy(whatever you want to call it)]

And I persoanlly want to see what other people have to say or show, thats why I watch anime, just like I watch TV, movies and other cartoons. I personally think if you have such a close-minded view of that, then you should seperate yourself from that. But if you do, then appreciate and respect other peoples works, and don't complain about it being to this or that...

We can't change how you see things and you can't change ours so just leave it like that.[/SIZE][/COLOR]

OOC:To azurewolf.. I was not reffering to those withing the anime but to those tht watch it. People like anime but complain about what is in it. Those are who I am talking about.

[OtakuSennen]

I agree with you, Sweetreyes. For a fantasy-ish story to work properly, you'll probably need some form of magic to do so. And, considering that regular humans normally don't use magic, who's better to do the job than an other-worldly being such as a witch or a spirit? I said something like this in the CN-being-sued thread, but I will repeat for those who have not seen it: Disney stories such as Cinderella and Snow White have witches in them, so why is it considered so bad to have an anime with a demon or something? The witches in those Disney fairy tales are normally the evil ones and get beaten in the end, and though that is not always the case in anime, most of the time the demons are evil (Not all in Witch Hunter Robin, though..) and the heros defeat them.

And spirits are not in any way taboo among the Japanese. Their equivalent to our Halloween is meant just to honor lost loved ones.

As long as you don't become a witch or try to make yourself a demon, what negative affect does this really have on you?

[AzureWolf]

These ideas and beliefs are tolerant [I]to an extent[/I]. However, I can't say I appreciate it when an ignorant bashing of monotheism commences. For example, Angel Sanctuary takes "love conquers all" to a whole other level - that is, "love conquers even God." Ok, not exactly what I would like to see/hear, but let's give it a chance...

What resulted is a flawed archetype of God, giving Him an extremely limited capacity of thought and power, as well as removing most of His characteristics that are widely accepted in the five major monotheistic religions. "What the hell is that?" I ask you. If what you are calling "God" is not what 100% of the world identifies as God, then couldn't you have just labeled your pseudo-deity "Bob?" Immediately, you can be sure that the target audience will be confused when God is mentioned. Second, the anime appears to have been made only for the sake of doing something taboo/unbelieveable. Congratulations, you succeeded at failing... :rolleyes:

Certainly not all takes on demons and super-beings is bad. Whenever you are watching/reading/hearing a story, what you have to do is leave your world, your ethics, and your ideas at the door. However, some shows demand that you bring your belongings with you, and Angel Sanctuary is one of those. They don't define "God" - they expect the viewer to know that already. Unfortunately, the creators seem to live in a cave, where "God" is that guy who can make fire.

Ok, so I've been attacking Angel Sanctuary this whole time, :D so let me give a better example of my tolerance level. Funny enough, it's Witch Hunter Robin. I had the pleasure of watching the first episode of this promising series. I can't say I accept the use of witchcraft by the main character, Robin, but she's not hurting anyone (spiritually, I mean): she's passive in her craft, and she's not trying to make people accept her for it. However, this disparity will keep me, the viewer, always a step away from being completely absorbed into the series (which isn't a good thing). This one character (who will probably be my favorite in the series) does not appreciate Robin's "gifts," since they are of the same nature as the enemies'. Unlike Angel Sanctuary, there's no "we are doing wrong for the sake of doing wrong" nature, and definately no holes in terms of universal truths/ethics.

Witch Hunter Robin looks promising, as Robin's past will be an interesting road to travel. However, I can easily say that Witch Hunter Robin will not be making my "Top 3" list of animes. The reason, though, will not be Robin's practices.

EDIT: Wow, that really seemed more like a review of two animes than my opinion... :sweat: Sorry about the extra tidbits of info, but just in case anyone wants to know.

Oh, btw, doesn't this: [quote]you cant make people change ther ideals[/quote] and this: [quote]I personally think if you have such a close-minded view of that, then you should seperate yourself from that. [/quote] imply contradiction? If you are an open-minded fan of anime (or any type of story-telling), how can you believe that no one can change? In every anime, does not every main character go through some kind of change, whether it be radical or developmental? In anime and all other stories, a main character always changes, and sometimes it is a complete transformation of philosophy and belief.

[Vash's girl]

I'm a christian and the talk about demons is a little controversial to my religion but it's just a story. Nobody worships them or anything. That's cool with me. Like Inyu Yasha, best anime out there. People who freak out about that kinda stuff get on my nerves. If ya don't like it, don't watch it!

[eleanor]

[size=1] Ideas like "Love conquers all, including God." and the existence of demons and witches don't bother me at all.

Well...I don't believe they're trying to [i]force[/i] these ideas on you, it's just part of the anime. Good anime movies and shows [in my opinion] explore themes and ideas that you aren't introduced to many times, or never at all.

And you must keep in mind that they are only cartoons; ink on paper. [/size]

[Zen]

Yeah. its all good. its jsut like talking about dragons and elves. Jsut usong demons and ghosts. It don't really matter.

[Guest Anime_Forever]

Personally I think without demons or ghools there would be no such thing as fantasy. Some religiose people (no offense) tried to banish Harr Pottefr (I cant believe i just menshoned that) cause it has witchcraft, but at least it (usually) used for good unlike the wicked witch who makes poison apples... You know what........ dirgard everything i just said. I really dont have the right to insult those people since Ive never been to church (dont gasp) and dont know what thats like but people really shouldnt be so tense about humans turning into monster then climbing up trees and picking up some gy with its claws them biting off his head the drinking his fluid as blood sprys in all directions(oops, got into my life story there)

[AzureWolf]

[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by maladjusted [/i]
[B][size=1] Ideas like "Love conquers all, including God." and the existence of demons and witches don't bother me at all.

Well...I don't believe they're trying to [i]force[/i] these ideas on you, it's just part of the anime...

And you must keep in mind that they are only cartoons; ink on paper. [/size] [/B][/QUOTE] O_o Did you read my post completely? I mean, I wouldn't blame you if you didn't, since I do tend to rant on and on like that. However, I think you missed the point. "Love conquers even God" was a theme I was willing to watch, but it turned out only to hold ignorance and an extreme misnomer. The identity of God was targetted to a being that does not match close enough to any version of "God" besides Zeus, which is from a polytheistic environment. Clearly, Angel Sanctuary is based upon on a monotheistic one, and [I]NONE[/I] of the monotheistic religions hold such a flawed view of God (by flawed, I mean just that: the idea that God is flawed).

In short, I was saying that everything within my moral and ethical boundary (notice: NOT religious) is ok, but when execution conflicts with meaning, there is a problem.

[eleanor]

[size=1] Um...I wasn't aiming that statement at you...I was just using your example. Sorry if you took it the wrong way.[/size]

[SadClown]

[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by AzureWolf [/i]
[B]O_o Did you read my post completely? I mean, I wouldn't blame you if you didn't, since I do tend to rant on and on like that. However, I think you missed the point. "Love conquers even God" was a theme I was willing to watch, but it turned out only to hold ignorance and an extreme misnomer. The identity of God was targetted to a being that does not match close enough to any version of "God" besides Zeus, which is from a polytheistic environment. Clearly, Angel Sanctuary is based upon on a monotheistic one, and [I]NONE[/I] of the monotheistic religions hold such a flawed view of God (by flawed, I mean just that: the idea that God is flawed).
[/B][/QUOTE]

Kaori Yuki wrote a story that is based loosley on Christian teachings. Whether or not she depicts God in the way that he is "supposed" to be is irrelevent; the story is fantasy. She took events and charectors from the bible and used them to create her own story. Personally, one of the things that makes it so creative and original is the fact that they take God, who is the embodiment of all good, and make him, as u said, flawed. Of course everyone isn't going to like the story, especially those who follow the bible becuase it is a perversion of everything that the bible is intended to represent. But that doesn't make her ignorant about anything.

As for the topic of the thread, I don't see how talking and reading about Demons and Monsters should have any impact on a person's spiritual beliefs. It's a different story if a person belives what they read, but speaking about them, to me, shouldn't be "taboo".

[James]

[color=#707875]Well, this reminds me of people who are burning Harry Potter books because they see it as evil, or something.

It's ridiculous.

This comes down to the idea that your core beliefs/morals can be influenced by a fictional story (whether it's a video game, movie, music or a book). It's rubbish and I think most people are aware of that.

I'm not religious, but I do sometimes come across things in movies (or anime, in this case), and I think "what was the point of that?" But it's not so much a matter of me thinking that the representation of a demon or whatever is wrong or blasphemous...it's usually related to my own critique of the story or something. It's about how I interpret the story.

But yeah, I'm all for artistic freedom. If you're going to get offended by a depiction of demons or something, you should probably consider life as a nun or monk. But if you're going to live in a modern human society, you really do need to either avoid these things completely, or learn to accept them as an artist's expression.[/color]

[Vash's girl]

I think it's crazy how ppl go nuts over stuff like that. My mom's a ittle eccentric over my anime and doesn't really feel that me reading harry potter is appriate. But i love it, what can i say! Me and anime forever!

[Jim_Hawking]

I find this whole thing amusing for one reason. I was forced to go to a "Catholic" grade school for the whole...yeah. While there, I learned about a card game called Magic:The Gathering. That game has alot of elements to it; demons, ghosts, elves, dragons, sorceries, priests, and "gods." None of the religious staff at the school thought anything of it, know why? They understood it was all fake. However, the moment my parents and grandparents find out, they become under the impression that I worship "Satan." Now this whole thing is starting again, because I was considering buying the anime Demon City Shinjuku, which I still haven't seen yet.

I guess my point is that how "religion" in anything affects people varies to person to person. Heck, my other relatives that have seen it say it's not "Satanic" or anything like that. I guess my close relatives are just messed up.

[SadClown]

Demon City is a little iffy. I wouldnt tell yur parents about it if u bought it.

[scrmngfangrl]

[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by Jim_Hawking [/i]
[B] They understood it was all fake. [/B][/QUOTE]

exactly, its all fake. and as long as you understand that it was made up, what does it matter? god on satan action, no problem. its fake. made up. nothing more to it. there to enteretain, not preach.

did you know people wanted to ban the wizard of oz because there is 'no such thing as a good witch'? 0.0

[SadClown]

SUre there is, read Harry Potter. =D

[Semjaza]

I never understood the problem. These are cartoons, simple as that. They're not around to throw the writers beliefs and ideas at you, hoping that you'll change your lifestyle. They're stuck in to make their stories work and keep them interesting.

[AzureWolf]

Sorry for the late reply - school and such. :sweat: [QUOTE][i]Originally posted by SadClown [/i]
[B]Kaori Yuki wrote a story that is based loosley on Christian teachings. Whether or not she depicts God in the way that he is "supposed" to be is irrelevent; the story is fantasy. She took events and charectors from the bible and used them to create her own story. Personally, one of the things that makes it so creative and original is the fact that they take God, who is the embodiment of all good, and make him, as u said, flawed. Of course everyone isn't going to like the story, especially those who follow the bible becuase it is a perversion of everything that the bible is intended to represent. But that doesn't make her ignorant about anything.

As for the topic of the thread, I don't see how talking and reading about Demons and Monsters should have any impact on a person's spiritual beliefs. It's a different story if a person belives what they read, but speaking about them, to me, shouldn't be "taboo". [/B][/QUOTE] Based loosely on Chrsitan teachings?! "Supposed" to be depicted?! Don't confuse the word "God" with the most commonly-associated entity which the term "God" identifies. Those are two completely different things:

God = a word that signifies a supreme being
What God [I]mostly[/I] refers to = an entity beyond everything (from the popular monotheistic religions)

It's ignorant to think that it is irrelevant how Kaori depicted the latter. She could have certainly gone with the former, and her story would not bare such plotholes. However, she didn't, and everyone knows that you cannot "supposedly" depict this God in any other way. To put it simply, you ultimately cannot change the supreme being without losing what you were trying to identify. Sure, you can try, but it will be futile. God is not a human: you cannot take off an "arm" or a characteristic and still be left with the primary constituents.

An analogy for God would be any compound, infinitely and uniformly distributed. Every component lies therein, symbolizing God's power, knowledge, etc. You cannot add anything to God: you can only remove. For example, the idea of God being flawed; you would take out God's perfection. God is evil? Take away His good and leave His wrath. However, how do you remove these aspects of God? Simply removing these pieces will not leave everything else intact. The only way is an extraction that demands a reaction, thereby [I]completely[/I] changing the properties and "God." In the end, you no longer have God (the second one)...

Hope that made sense. The concept is not unlike putting a character from a story into your own narrative, but completely changing everything that made that character unique, identifiable.

[Hinata]

[COLOR=teal]

Well I think many of you understand my opinion but there are other out there who don't...
I guess it is religion but then I see it like this why try to mix religion and the world( secularism)

I know too many ppl who try to do that and that's where they lose their religion...OOOPPS I think I'm getting offf subject her. But ppl don't take that the wrong way either Im not saying because your religious and love God that you'll lose him...Heck naw but If you believe that anime is too violent or against your belief than back off of it of find an anime more suitable to your own thoughts and beliefs. Trust me there are a few that don't overstep those boundaries and when you find em...LEt Me Know!!!

LOL!!![/COLOR]

[SadClown]

I think you mean "God" and "a god." Anyway, I don't agree with what you said but I wont try to sway you either. I like the way AS was written. I thought it imaginative and an interesting twist on "an old classic." =D

[Skyrose]

I'm not bothered at all by things in anime. Just because a story shows god(s) and religion one way, doesn't mean that's how the author sees things, or that it even has to work in the real world. I think it's a good thing for a writer to write with a thought like "Hey, what if this could be true in our real world?" It's just an exploration. And usually something that makes us thankful our world works the way it does O.o