My thoughts on...

[Adahn]

Hi, I'm new here. Being a person, the occasional thought crosses my mind. However, sometimes I find I'm afflicted with too many thoughts to handle. In order to get them out of my head, I've decided to put them here so I don't lose them, and perhaps they can be expanded on. I'd talk to people about them, but I have trouble getting comfortable around people, and giving them a peek at my innermost machinations seems a bit too intimate. I hope to get input on my thoughts, and will try to keep them on fairly neutral ground so as not to let too much emotion cloud responses.

The most recent thought that I haven't lost and am willing to share deals with, well, thoughts themselves. I find that before I go to sleep, my level of insight increases dramatically, perhaps do to my body being in a very relaxed position, freeing up resources for my overactive mind. During one of these occurances, I was pondering truth and reality.

Those of us who have a belief system of some sort surely devote parts of their mind to faith. The thing about faith, in any religion, is that it cannot exist if it is proven. To know, without a doubt, how to obtain your best possible afterlife would require no self-searching for truth or questioning of your religion. This does not mean that you cannot believe, with all your heart and soul, that your religion is true, but basing that belief on evidence would destroy one of the most essential parts of religion; faith in the unknown.

Those who have no religion, correct me if i'm wrong, would probably consider themselves at the center of the universe. If you believe there is no life after death, then life must be spent with the knowledge that your own life is the most important part of you. If you recognize yourself as all-important, then the most sacred knowledges must be gained through life, and true insight must also be gleaned from the unknown, because the most sacred things are those not easily obtained.

This brings me to dreams. Surely, there is no mortal that exists or has ever existed that knew all of their dreams. Dreams come from your most physically inactive state, and while the mind rests, it does not stop working, therefore thoughts and feelings that come from such a state must originate from the most easily accessed parts of your mind. I have not read any dream interpretations or anything like them, mostly because this is a basically underdeveloped thought. However, since everyone's brain is wired differently, I don't think fitting dreams into a certain category is the best way to find the truth in them. Truth is a sacred thing, and can only be found from within yourself, whether it is a communion with a greater being, or a communion within your own mind. With all this in my mind, I currently believe that you should take the dreams you have and see if they apply to what thoughts or emotions have been recently predominant in your mind, or even ones that have been pondered for a good deal of time and have taken permanent residence in your mind.

I thank you for listening, and would appreciate any input. If my thoughts seem incomplete, or, well, thoughtless, it may be because it's 2 A.M. and I'm not exactly lying down half asleep :)
I may remember other things later, and I'll try to post them here to see if anyone can help me push them around.

Thanks again :)

[GreenEyedDragon]

[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by Adahn [/i]
[B]This brings me to dreams. Surely, there is no mortal that exists or has ever existed that knew all of their dreams. Dreams come from your most physically inactive state, and while the mind rests, it does not stop working, therefore thoughts and feelings that come from such a state must originate from the most easily accessed parts of your mind. I have not read any dream interpretations or anything like them, mostly because this is a basically underdeveloped thought. However, since everyone's brain is wired differently, I don't think fitting dreams into a certain category is the best way to find the truth in them. Truth is a sacred thing, and can only be found from within yourself, whether it is a communion with a greater being, or a communion within your own mind. With all this in my mind, I currently believe that you should take the dreams you have and see if they apply to what thoughts or emotions have been recently predominant in your mind, or even ones that have been pondered for a good deal of time and have taken permanent residence in your mind.
[/B][/QUOTE]

[color=green] could you elaborate on this topic? I've had some really deep conversations based on dreams (i.e. Have you ever had a dream that seemed as if it came from God, etc.) and i would like to know some of your thoughts on the topic. Personally, i haven't reasearched or found too much out about dream interpretations, and i've never really intended to, but i think that if people are interpreting dreams, there should be more to it than matching up figures and actions to come up with a result. I think that interpreting a dream would require and exact recount of it, what happened, what the dream 'you' felt, and who else was there. For example, if a girl were to dream that she was kissing a boy that she claims she used to like, but doesn't anymore, it could mean she's oppressing her true feelings about that person. Most of it could be explained as common sense, based on what happened, who was there, and recent emotions in past days or weeks on that topic, although my example was a rather simple dream.

When it comes to explaining what a dream is, though, i find that pointless. Some explanations are as follows: Dreams are the by-product/visualization of the brain sorting through the day's memories. (or) Dreams are subconcious messages based on emotions.

Now, a scientific explanation to what a dream is, based on the knowledge that is is caused by the brain, is quite an assumption. Scientists haven't even figrued out how the brian works, so they cannot explain what is cuased by the brain working in your sleep.

I will add more to this later, but please let me know about what you think. [/color]

[eleanor]

[size=1] I believe that dreams are unprocessed thoughts that come to us when we're sleeping [NO, I don't know how that's possible...] and that many of our problems or beliefs are contained in them. I usually forget most of my dreams if I do remember them when I wake up, so they're all pretty much blurry.

I have no religion, nor do I believe in any God, and I do not think I should live my life just to obtain a certain truth or knowledge. I basically think we should live our lives the way we want to, and when we die, that's the end of it. [/size]

[Lady Asphyxia]

[size=1]I have no religion as such. I suppose I believe in something after death, but I have no clue what it is, and I don't wish to tie myself to a religion when I can't fully believe in it. *shrug* I'm just one of those people. I dont' really think of my self as the circle of existance -- although, really, when you think about it, your world revolves around yourself. You don't know what other people say when you aren't there, and so on.

I find that I'm at my deepest -- or is it shallowest? -- when I'm about to fall asleep. These concepts come to me, and it changes the way I think. However, they're often normal concepts seen in a different light, or with a twist, and so it isn't as odd as it might seem.

To me, dreaming is a way of getting out what you've subconsciously repressed. I had a dream about a woman who was strangled to death [I refused to go to sleep afterwards, heh.] and her face was purple. The day before, I'd watched a movie when a woman hanged herself, and it showed the purple face. At the time, I wasn't overly affected after the first shock. It seems to me that I'd repressed the image, and it came back so I could deal with it. [/size]

[Adahn]

Perhaps dreams are just recent, random occurances, or they may help us gain insight into our deepest feelings and thoughts. However, I now remember why I started on dreams in the first place, and I accidentally went into it too far, while I really hadn't put much thought into it. My true train of thought was somewhere else :(

The good thing is that I remember why I got into it :) . The thing about dreams is that they relate only to you. Nobody will ever be able to invade their sanctity, and the only way they can hear about your dreams is if you tell them. What I originally had pondered was the value of what only you can know, unless you tell someone else. Every thought that you do not divulge to someone else is yours, utterly and completely yours. All other sources of knowledge; books, magazines, movies, other people, can be made available to you, and have already been conceived of and expanded on. Sometimes, I wonder if anything I have ever thought about has not been thought of before, and that makes me feel less important and insightful. As a person who thinks of himself as intelligent, that thought really gets to me. I've thought about creating stories, worlds, and/or situations in my mind for the sole reason of having something truly unique to me to pride myself on. I could always start a journal or something, but dealing with things that happen to me or thoughts about things that happen to me seems superficial. I suppose other people can convince themselves that they are unique because the combination of their experiences produce a final form that is impossible to reproduce, but if taken apart, I cannot think of any experience that has happened to me that anyone who exists or has ever existed has not had happen to them. Even now, I feel as if I'm giving up a piece of my own uniqueness in hopes of personal mental growth, which throws me right back into the crowd where everyone else wants to grow also.

So you see, dreams are a small part of my larger thought, which I believe has more depth. I'm sorry if I change subjects, but I wanted to clear my mind by resolving my earlier thoughts. I don't know of anyone who has ever had the above concept before, although I haven't looked, but I hope it stimulates conversations that may not have been thought of before.

[BabyGirl]

[color=deeppink]Welcome to the Boards and thanks for posting an intelligent topic! [I'm (originally) from Michigan, too! ::waves::][/color]

[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by Adahn [/i]
[B]Those who have no religion, correct me if i'm wrong, would probably consider themselves at the center of the universe. If you believe there is no life after death, then life must be spent with the knowledge that your own life is the most important part of you. If you recognize yourself as all-important...[/B][/QUOTE]

[color=deeppink]I have to disagree with you on this. However, I can see where you're coming from because when you scrutinize it down to the bare facts, it can definitely be seen as a literal 'center of the universe' belief. Then again, I doubt that anyone who doesn't have a chosen religion really [i]consciously[/i] feels that way about their place in the world. People who have a strong faith--differing from religion, mind you--most likely believe that there is [i]something[/i] beyond death, but don't feel that worshiping invisible 'presences' of people long-gone is really the thing for them...

...maybe? That's just my theory on the issue, but your opinion really made me think because you totally stripped it down to a basis statement and made an arguement out of it. Yeah ^_^.[/color]

[quote][b]...then the most sacred knowledges must be gained through life, and true insight must also be gleaned from the unknown, because the most sacred things are those not easily obtained.[/quote][/b]

[color=deeppink]Isn't that part of what religions believe, too?[/color]

[Burori]

I believe dreams are more of two things. One they are glimpses of things that may be or can be. And two I believe with the right type of people Dreams are a new source totell what the future has for you. (I'm one of those people ^_^)

[SubaruFan]

I've had my own experiences to show that dreams can,and often do represent your mind processing things your waking mind either cant handle or wont stop thinking about.My most recent and convincing one was when I wouldn't stop thinking these paranoid thoughts about my boyfriend (or exboyfriend,or whatever he is,even he doesnt know what hes thinking half the time,and yes im a guy too,im bisexual,so get over it lol) and that night,i dreamt he told me that he'd found someone else,a girl,and that he was really happy,and at the end of the dream i was going to kill myself...i woke up and almost screamed and started to cry,it was awful....so yeah,dreams suck lol

[BabyGirl]

[color=deeppink]If you guys want to see an extremely interesting, extremely [i]intellectual[/i] film that deals with dreams, watch [b]Waking Life[/b]. Be prepared for its intelligence, though, otherwise you'll end up tuning it out. I think it's a great movie that really challenges the concept of the dream world...definitely worth seeing once.[/color]

[Justin]

For the most part, I don't think much on dreams. I never usually remember mine anyway.

Now, I do believe that some Christians may be subject to inspired dreams, which then become vision, but those are entirely different, in my opinion. Those can be vividly remembered, even if you don't necessarily understand them at the time. Understanding grows from patience.

Your thoughts on both people with faith and people without it are very good, I must say. Though, I've known Christians who believe simply because they've found the Christian God to be logical, I think it is a sad state of existance. Logic is so boring and easy. I'd much rather have faith, because 'blessed are those who do not see, and believe anyway'. And I'm a witness to the truth of that.

As for the no-religion-thing: It makes the most sense I've heard from another person all morning, I think. I'd never looked at it that way, and as Jenna said, I doubt many actually look at themselves that way; but for the sake of just tearing it all apart, it makes sense.

-Justin

[Solo Tremaine]

I can really only give a physical accountment for dreams, having looked at various theories of how they appear in Psychology.

I'm sure I've posted this somewhare already... anyway, during the day, you use up copious amounts of neurotransmitters in your brain during the firing of millions of neurones inside your brain. These have to be replenished at some point, and the best time to do that would be sleep, when your body is at rest.

Hence, when you sleep, substances are being transported and synthesised at the synapse, which might result in the random firing of the nerve impulses (the Pons area in the brain generates waves anyway, sorry this is a bit vague- I can't remember a lot of the technical stuff), which would explain why we're able to see, hear and feel things in our dreams- although we don't physically hear them, the centres in the brain that interpret the information are receiving electrical impulses as if you are.

This can explain why some dreams are random or to do with topics of the day- the more you think about or do something, the more neurotransmitters you use in that area of the brain and the more that needs replacing while you sleep. If they're random neurotransmitter from everywhere's probably being replaced.

So to me, they seem like random machinations of the brain's natural regenerative processes [yes, big words do make me feel clever] that happen to have a relevance to your life. They aren't any less real/scary/depressing or whatever, and indeed they can provide great scope for daily events and larger problems, but I'm wondering if that's just because the brain's working in a different way to when it's awake. I don't know, I hate being scientific at times.

Which is why I don't really know what to think about religion- I'm an agnostic (meaning more or less 'on the fence')- I can't understand what actually happens after death, but I believe there is something.

[Adahn]

I think the mind of a true atheist would be something to ponder in itself. If you believe there is "something" after death, but don't know what to choose, then you have your own personal religion. True atheists believe in no afterlife, and therefore must embrace non-existence after death, it's only alternative. A mind with strong belief that their is a complete, final-death boggles me. Have any atheists put alot of thought into their choice? I pondered non-existence once, and it made me feel scared, empty, sad, and alone. From an atheist's point of view, all existence ends when the individual ends. Since we can only live by our own perspective, when our consciousness is no more, there is nothing, and end to all time, a time that never existed. One may attempt to perceive the world through another's eyes, through efforts in imagination, and even logic, but it is impossible. I, myself, truly cannot understand someone who embraces such emptiness and wishes to live a life with any meaning at all. Even if an atheist does good things, and is generally a nice guy, what does he think will come of it? If he does it to get things from other people, then he truly isn't good. If he believes he will live on in the minds of others, then he has that religion, or prospect of some form of life after death. For those who can live with such pain as atheism, I would like to hear your thoughts, and how you cope with internal moral issues. But know always, whether you are good or successful or contribute to anything, I empathize with you and hope to have an effect on any decision concerning religion that you bring to yourself. It's never too late to undergo a paradigm shift and reconsider one's values, never.

[BabyGirl]

[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by Adahn [/i]
[B]If he believes he will live on in the minds of others, then he has that religion, or prospect of some form of life after death. For those who can live with such pain as atheism, I would like to hear your thoughts, and how you cope with internal moral issues. [/B][/QUOTE]

[color=deeppink]To me there's a distinct difference between being an atheist and being agnostic. Choosing to be an atheist is a consious decision to believe that there is no God, no afterlife, and no one holy presense watching over us all. To be agnostic, however, is more a state of mind where you're not convinced that God is real, but you don't have reason to deny it either.

These two things shouldn't be mixed up.

Anyway, we all know that we're going to die someday, and none of us actually KNOW what it is like after death. That's cool if you have your belief that God will provide for you and you'll be forever living in the clouds of heaven, and I respect that, but how certain [i]are[/i] you that the Bible's predictions are true? There's no proof...but maybe that's why so many people hold onto the hope of an afterlife and of one omnipresent God...because it's something to look forward to?

But why concentrate on what's going to happen AFTER you die when you can be doing great things while you're living, even if you don't believe in God? Why should you ever think about dying when there is so much life to live in the first place? In this world, death is final. When my time comes to pass on, then I want it to be my finale. I'm not going to spend time contemplating the wonders of what happens after I die, or even preparing for it, because I love living life, and I love that I LIVE to love.

Just because someone doesn't ask Jesus into their hearts...eh...I'm going to go out onto a limb, so I find it's better to stop myself here. I don't want to criticize anyone's belief, I just want to make it clear that I don't agree. I definitely don't disrespect your decision to believe in God, I just don't see eye to eye with that ^_~

::stops rambling::[/color]

[Justin]

First of all, Jenna, you that I love you.

[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by BabyGirl [/i]
[B][color=deeppink]To me there's a distinct difference between being an atheist and being agnostic. Choosing to be an atheist is a consious decision to believe that there is no God, no afterlife, and no one holy presense watching over us all. To be agnostic, however, is more a state of mind where you're not convinced that God is real, but you don't have reason to deny it either.

These two things shouldn't be mixed up.[/color][/quote]

This is very true.

[quote][color=deeppink]
Anyway, we all know that we're going to die someday, and none of us actually KNOW what it is like after death. That's cool if you have your belief that God will provide for you and you'll be forever living in the clouds of heaven, and I respect that, but how certain [i]are[/i] you that the Bible's predictions are true? There's no proof...but maybe that's why so many people hold onto the hope of an afterlife and of one omnipresent God...because it's something to look forward to?[/color][/quote]

I'll admit, I do not know what Heaven will be like. Though, the Bible gives descriptions, accurate ones, to be sure, it does so with many things. Many things I've already experienced. The Bible did not lie, but at the same time, I cannot say I understood them before they happened.

Now, how certain am I? Very. The proof I have comes by way of the Holy Spirit, or the only proof I truly need anyway. But predictions in the Bible [i]have[/i] come true already, and they come true now. The God of the Bible is a living One, which is what many religious folk do not understand. He works now as I write, and as all of you read.

You see, I don't blame other faiths for anything that comes against Christianity--and the fact that things do is fulfillment of a prophecy itself--I blame religion. Folks try to turn a relationship into a religion, and you have what many church people are today. Dead, and having long forgotten the power of the Lord. The Fire of Heaven. The Anointing.

Don't misunderstand me, church is great--necessary to growth, even. But anything non-Biblical is to be discarded.

It must also be said that the prophecies in the Bible are not the only prophecies to hold to. God still speaks through prophets today. Now, there exists room for fakes and phonies in this, but for them, God created another gift--called discernment. And told His people to use it to determine if a prophet were real.

Now, if people can't discern spiritually, then we have the passage of time. If a 'prophets' words do not come to pass, he was false.

But those prophecies will never be anything non-Scriptural.

[quote]But why concentrate on what's going to happen AFTER you die when you can be doing great things while you're living, even if you don't believe in God? Why should you ever think about dying when there is so much life to live in the first place? In this world, death is final. When my time comes to pass on, then I want it to be my finale. I'm not going to spend time contemplating the wonders of what happens after I die, or even preparing for it, because I love living life, and I love that I LIVE to love. [/quote]

Christianity isn't about death, though many people only concern themselves with God when it comes to death and salvation. It's about life. Both here, and later on. God speaks to me much more..much, much more about things I'm going to do here, than He does about anything to do with Heaven, Hell, or death. Christianity is about a relationship with God, and sharing that with others.

[quote]Just because someone doesn't ask Jesus into their hearts...eh...I'm going to go out onto a limb, so I find it's better to stop myself here. I don't want to criticize anyone's belief, I just want to make it clear that I don't agree. I definitely don't disrespect your decision to believe in God, I just don't see eye to eye with that ^_~

::stops rambling::[/QUOTE]

I hope it's not me you're concerned about offending, lol. You'll find it's pretty difficult to do. I encourage you to directly question my faith, even if it isn't here, I'd like to hear your opinion, because I honestly don't know it beyond the fact that you just disagree.

-Justin

[BabyGirl]

[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by Justin [/i]
[B]First of all, Jenna, you [know] that I love you.[/quote][/b]

[color=deeppink]Of course ^_^[/color]

[quote][b]Christianity isn't about death, though many people only concern themselves with God when it comes to death and salvation. It's about life. Both here, and later on. God speaks to me much more..much, much more about things I'm going to do here, than He does about anything to do with Heaven, Hell, or death. Christianity is about a relationship with God, and sharing that with others.[/quote][/b]

[color=deeppink]Yes, this I do know. There was that period in my life where I could have been considered a great Christian because of my beliefs, and I did a bit of studying then. However, I suppose I have more 'faith' than I did belief in salvation and God and stuff like that. I'm simply not cut out for that lifestyle I suppose ;)

So, in response to that, I was responding to Adahn's comments about expecting a life after death and so forth. I certainly don't think that every Christian focuses on death alone, I just wanted to make a point that I don't think it's healthy if someone does!!! heh. [/color]

[quote][b]I hope it's not me you're concerned about offending, lol. You'll find it's pretty difficult to do. I encourage you to directly question my faith, even if it isn't here, I'd like to hear your opinion, because I honestly don't know it beyond the fact that you just disagree.[/b][/quote]

[color=deeppink]Nah, you're one of the few strong Christians that I deeply respect. You preach your opinion but you don't shove it down anyone's throat, you simply throw out a few words of advice and leave it at that. You've never argued your point by actually being argumentative, and that's where you differ. You also don't see me as being a 'bad' person 'going to hell' [at least not that you've said ^_~] simply because of my beliefs [or lack thereof]. Those are the reasons I never feel suffocated by your opinions, they're always well stated and intelligent. ::stops being formal and hugs you::

Anyway, my opinion on the whole thing? I honestly don't have one ^_^; I just don't want to follow the Bible and its teachings, because I severely disagree with what the church taught me and it's a strict lifestyle that I could never follow. I indulge in all sorts of sins, and I actually enjoy them! :D

Most of all it's the organized religion idea that really bothers me, much more so than the thought of someone believing in and worshipping [I honestly can't spell] a higher power. I just dno't like people pushing their belief on me and telling me that I'm a horrible sinful person for not thinking like a drone as they are. How much do most of them know, other than what they've heard in church?

I think most of the time it's truely regurgitated facts and Bible verses that carry their religion and their opinions, rather than their own research into the topic. I'm generalizing, I'm sure, but the stereotypes are indeed stereotypes for a reason.

Blah blah blah, I don't even know what I wrote anymore. Time to stop :)[/color]

[Adahn]

If you'll notice, I never actually mentioned any religion at all, but you managed to guess correctly that I'm a Christian. The funny thing is that I've been to church less than half a dozen times. I grew up with my parents trying to believe in God, but never being able to look deep enough into things. They assume evolution has been proven, even though it's not even a theory, it's a model. As for agnostics, I never said anything to relate them to atheists. I specifically said that if you have any belief whatsoever, or even a hope of an afterlife, you're not an atheist. As for living life, I'm all for that. I just hope people who live in the United States (I'm just assuming most people live here) are grateful for the religion that is the basis for all the freedoms we are entitled to today. We are different from all other creatures on earth because of many things, but one of the greatest among them is religion. I had to create all of my own ideas about Christianity from what I read in the Bible. I think that if people follow a preacher, they might find contradictions between the preacher's predictions and their own. There are so many denominations of religions, and because of this, they are all imperfect. God wants us to explore our own faiths, not have them shoved down our throats by other people, or have them conditioned into us. An atheist or agnostic who converts to Christianity would probably deserve more respect than someone who takes their knowledge of their religion for granted. I wish I would have been brought up with Christianity, but I am stronger because I was not. My knowledge of the Bible may not be nearly as expansive as most peoples, but my beliefs of its teachings are my own, and they will only be changed by one on one discussions, or forums such as this. I know God loves me, and that's more or less the main idea of any major religion today. Your god created you, and he loves you. If anyone says I'm trying to change other people's ideas, then they're right. I want people to think about their choices, and to always consider new alternatives. The beginning of any exploration of religion can be as simple as the once-asked question to oneself, "What can it hurt?"

[Charles]

Hey, welcome to OtakuBoards, Adahn. Great post. Very thought provoking.

[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by Adahn [/i]
[B]Those who have no religion, correct me if i'm wrong, would probably consider themselves at the center of the universe. If you believe there is no life after death, then life must be spent with the knowledge that your own life is the most important part of you. If you recognize yourself as all-important, then the most sacred knowledges must be gained through life, and true insight must also be gleaned from the unknown, because the most sacred things are those not easily obtained.[/b][/quote]

There's an old saying that says "If donkeys had gods, they would be donkeys." I'm paraphrasing, so if there are any literature fanatics or philosophy buffs reading this, please don't shoot me. The exact wording isn't important for the purposes of this post anyway.

What I'm trying to impress upon you, is that our species does not consider itself the center of the universe because of religion. Rather, religion is a direct product of a preexisting, natural attitude. Any species capable of intellectual thought enjoys the idea that it's the best species: the most beautiful, the most intelligent, the likeness of God.

That is precisely why Gods adopt humanistic characteristics in popular religion or in literature. The Greek Gods, for example, quarreled, had furniture, and enjoyed wine.

With or without religion, I'm convinced that people will try to get the most out of life. Humanity's greatest quest is their pursuit of knowledge--even if it does contradict religious belief. Religion was only created for the purposes of establishing a code of law, and to give people explanations when the science just wasn't there to provide answers.

You can also factor in how people lived off the land and had a very pessimistic attitude depending on the reliability of rivers and such to provide water reserves. Gods provided hope for a people who spent their entire lives toiling under manual labor.

Today, I think people are interested in making things better for their children than they are entering the eternal gates of Heaven.

[quote][b]This brings me to dreams. [/B][/QUOTE]

I wrote a paper on dreams for psychology class. It may be of some interest to you. So, I'll provide it. Just keep in mind that it's very poor. The information is accurate, but it's quite redundant because I wasn't interested in writing it. I was trying to fill up the space necessary to complete the assignment, so skim it if you'd like:

The Freudian view holds that dreams stem from unacceptable, hidden wishes and fears. However, psychiatrists such as Allan Hobson suggest that dreams are caused by spontaneous electrochemical signals in the brain, and their meaning is transparent, not obscure. So, the question remains: Are dreams really a pathway to interpreting and understanding the unconscious and cognitive reality, or are they merely an abstract jumble of meaningless sensations and abstract thought?

We all accept, as commonplace, that dreams bubble up from a troubled subconscious, that they represent hidden and mysterious wishes, and that they require deciphering (Dolnick 54). But, one must question whether the flood of images that constitute our cognitive visions are merely bits and pieces of wandering thoughts that are even possible to interpret, in the first place.

Although the brain is active while one is sleeping, there is little awareness to suggest that the brain is capable of stringing together logical, coherent thoughts in the form of visions. Hobson notes that the dreaming brain works under adverse conditions deprived of any access to information from the outside world while laboring to fashion a tale from a cascade of internally generated signals (Donlick 55). It tends to piece images together, as it would a puzzle, and the end result isn?t always complete.

Hobson suggests that the dreamer is a kind of sorcerer?s apprentice, racing madly to keep up with a flood of images as the core of his theory. Every night, he says, the dreaming brain automatically generates a barrage of signals that we do our best to assemble into a coherent story (Dolnick 55). However, although the imagery itself conveys no valid ?message,? the stream of consciousness has the potential to do so, as a free writing exercise would. Unconscious thoughts pour out into the stream of consciousness. Dreams and free writing can both present discernable patterns.

According to John Suler, a psychologist from Rider University, people, things, or events from the previous day that get incorporated into a dream were put there for a reason. They touched off ideas, feelings, and memories in the unconscious. Examining your thoughts and feelings about these events from the day will help you understand the dream and why it is "commenting" on these events. So, although he acknowledges the meaning behind dreams, he in no way endorsed the theory that dreams are prophecies.

This way of thinking falls in line with that of modern dream interpreters. They feel that dreams can be triggered by a myriad of things. Emotional concern, or sex aren?t necessarily triggers for dreams alone, according to this view. Furthermore, dreams aren?t supposed to reflect a universal symbolism--they rely on symbols and metaphors to convey meaning rather than as disguises to obscure it.

Belief plays a major role in the credibility of dreams. Belief is thus the mental state or function of cognizing reality. ?Belief? will mean every degree of assurance, including the highest possible certainty and conviction (James 283). Someone might see a coat rack with a coat and hat on it, as pointed out by Hobson, but they might see a person standing there. In such a case, someone is filling in the gaps. So, just as people reassure themselves of an object?s existence via perception, they are able to fill in the gaps in their dreams and create meaning.

The fact that dreams are bizarre or hard to remember, lies in the aforementioned point that the brain is operating under adverse conditions. We forget them [dreams] because the dreaming brain happens to be deprived of certain chemicals that are essential for storing memories (Dolnick 56). Therein lies another distinction between the scientific dream theory and a general theory of consciousness. A student of the latter theory might conclude that it is sometimes difficult to remember a dream because it is uncensored and too painful to recall.

The main conflict between someone like Hobson and dream groups who believe in the Freudian theories, is the value of dreams, whether or not they?re a truth to the unconscious and truths that might otherwise be missed. It?s all a question of the value of dreams, in this sense. ?But is the dream uniquely valuable, uniquely informative? I would have to say a qualified no. I am just not sure it?s all that useful? (Dolnick 61) Other psychologists, such as Gayle Delaney, for instance, view dreams as invaluable in therapy--a powerful tool.

The critical differences between Hobson?s view and Freud?s are as follows: dreams are not obscure, but transparent, dreams are not censored, but unedited; dreaming is not triggered by daily events that resurrect buried memories but is a process as automatic as breathing. (Dolnic 55). So, it?s not the psychological significance of dreams that Hobson doubts, but the scientific nature surrounding them.

When using dreams as an x-ray into a patient?s mind, psychologists might observe patterns in dreams. Suler points out that changes in dreams can represent changes in one?s self and recurring dreams can point to a persistent theme or issue, such as ?unsettled business.? He also points out the dream-ego, as Jung called it, can represent hidden parts of one?s life.

Hobson doesn?t completely disagree with theories like these. They are revealing, he says, much as interpretations of Rorschach inkblots can be (Dolnick 55). It?s the randomness that muddles dreams that concerns him. A multitude of current problems and crisis can mix with past events and fears, blurring the meaning surrounding them. Finding out where the meaning lies, is the most complicated part--separating the wanted from the unwanted, unscrambling the jumble. It exists, to be sure, in a fashion, for it forms the content of that mind?s hallucination; but the hallucination itself, though unquestionably it is a sort of existing fact, has no knowledge of other facts?(James 288).

Dream journals, in a way, can be a useful means of comparing dreams, pulling pieces from them, and separating the extraneous from the important issues. Hobson and Suler, both note the usefulness of the journals. It can be a way to open up the dream life, according to Suler. Such a way of systematically thinking, may allow dreams to be interpreted more clearly and more in-depth.

There?s no clear evidence to say which school of thought is superior to the other. But, as pointed out, both sides do recognize measures to sort through dreams and derive significant interpretation. Can dreams be interpreted? The short answer is yes, it is possible to extract some meaning from them.

But, without proper interpretational methods, such as free writing exercises, dialogue, dream enactment, and the ability to recognize dream intangibles, as pointed out by Suler, dreams can lead to misinterpretation if too heavily relied upon.

Hobson once said that the phrase ?I have a dream,? should read ?a dream had me.? In the end, dreams are a product of who we are and how we perceive reality. Their truth is limited to those things much like how a computer is only as perfect as its programmer.

So, when one asks what dreams are made of, whether one believes that they?re made of the cobblestones on the road to the unconscious or transparent thoughts rendered by the brain, the answer is clear. Dreams aren?t made of anything--they?re made of us, by us. If our perception of reality solely determined dreams, then animals or infants wouldn?t dream. In the end, dreams may reflect who we are, what we want to be, don?t want to be, or are afraid to be among a myriad of other thing-- but only to a certain extent.

[Adahn]

Thanks for the welcome :). And I'm sure you're just being modest about your paper. From the citations I can tell work and effort was put into it, and it's difficult to put one's finger on something that scientific study cannot delve completely into; the human mind. We've known dreams have existed since we've started sleeping, and yet we have figured out all of the elements (periodic table) that make up our immediate reality down to their structure and the position of their electrons. Dreams are one area where psychology and science are intertwined.

[Justin]

I share the same distaste that you do, Jenna. Always have, lol.

As I may or may not have stated, religious people make me sick. Having said that, it can only be the work of a higher Diety that I came to the position I am in today.

You see, even though western culture makes Christianity out to be a droning, boring religion, in other parts of the world(and indeed, when Jesus taught it) it is quite revolutionary. I blame people throwing God's name in every other sentence, either to bless or to bring about damnation(which is the choice of the person, as God tugs on the hearts of everyone equally), for the West's current over-saturation with the idea of some boring, dead, inactive god. One that does not exist.

The God of the Bible is a powerful, omni-everything, [i]active[/i] God. His Spirit moves in, amongst, and through His people...in a [i]tangible[/i], [i]percievable[/i] way.

The [i]religion[/i] of Christianity is a system, developed over years and years of regurgitated wisdom--which is now starting to lose its roots. You can see that by the emergence of false doctrines, and the lack of Americans in the church.

The [i]relationship[/i] of Christianity is exactly what it was in the beginning. Still miracles are being performed, still the Holy Spirit moves, and still His people praise. Just last night, at a revival, a woman came to the front and told the evanglist she needed a healing of her knee. She had recently had surgery and it was faulty. The evangelist said it best when he respoded with "I thought you were going to ask for something hard." The woman got her healing. I am an eyewitness of that, and an eyewitness to the tangibility of the Lord's precense.

I believe every single word of the Bible--save the few minor descrepencies that do exist; none of which are doctrinally significant. Mostly names of places and such. Even then, you can go back to the original Hebrew to find what was and what wasn't.

So, as I've said, by society's perception, true Christianity is no run-of-the-mill religion. Religious folks can have their religion, I'll have my Spirit and my Word. We'll see who enjoys life the most.

-Justin

[BabyGirl]

[color=deeppink]See, that is why I deeply respect and LOVE you!

Do you think that Christianity is a sense of mind or a sense of being?[/color]

[Skyrose]

[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by Adahn [/i]
[B]I think the mind of a true atheist would be something to ponder in itself. If you believe there is "something" after death, but don't know what to choose, then you have your own personal religion. True atheists believe in no afterlife, and therefore must embrace non-existence after death, it's only alternative. A mind with strong belief that their is a complete, final-death boggles me. Have any atheists put alot of thought into their choice? I pondered non-existence once, and it made me feel scared, empty, sad, and alone. From an atheist's point of view, all existence ends when the individual ends. Since we can only live by our own perspective, when our consciousness is no more, there is nothing, and end to all time, a time that never existed. One may attempt to perceive the world through another's eyes, through efforts in imagination, and even logic, but it is impossible. I, myself, truly cannot understand someone who embraces such emptiness and wishes to live a life with any meaning at all. Even if an atheist does good things, and is generally a nice guy, what does he think will come of it? If he does it to get things from other people, then he truly isn't good. If he believes he will live on in the minds of others, then he has that religion, or prospect of some form of life after death. For those who can live with such pain as atheism, I would like to hear your thoughts, and how you cope with internal moral issues. But know always, whether you are good or successful or contribute to anything, I empathize with you and hope to have an effect on any decision concerning religion that you bring to yourself. It's never too late to undergo a paradigm shift and reconsider one's values, never. [/B][/QUOTE]

I'm kind of odd, and think life after death is a strange concept. I mean, there are some accounts of dying and reviving and some strange tarot readings and stuff that indicate an afterlife... but it just boggles my mind.

But, I can never be too sure. I just live my life how I want to, and do whatever feels right to me, without concerning over what it all means in the end. I trust my intuition :)

What I don't trust is any reasoning, including my own. To me, dying seems kind of like getting knocked out... but eternally. Have you ever passed out? You don't even know it happened. Sometimes you don't even know you slipped away. That's what I always thought of death like. Honestly, it doesn't bother me to think that this all could have no meaning. That just means I can attach my own meaning to it, and I can't screw it up. And when I die... well, I'll be dead, and out of existance if things work the way I think they would. So I won't care! It's kind of a comforting thing, actually.

Funny thing is, I believe in a higher power. Not a god, but really the connection between all living things. It's kind of an energy, and we're all a part of it. Life is god, I guess.

I guess that means that when we die, our being is snuffed out, and our energy is recycled? Or maybe we ourselves are recycled, and it's kind of a reincarnation thing? Or maybe we actually get in on this connection, and become one?

See, too many questions... well, whatever actually does happen to us when we die, I'll still live the way I do. The only things (I can think of) we do throughout our lives are think and learn, and maybe that means those are the real reasons to live.

Meh, major rambling and way too many lazy opinions. I hope I at least made someone think ^-^;;

[Justin]

It fills every part of the believer. Especially when spiritual maturity sets in.

So, I suppose it's more of a state of being, than a state of mind--though, I have to say, I'm not sure what you were asking with that queston, lol.

Jesus went through all that He did for us. And if only one were to ever accept Him in all of time, He'd have done it anyway. That is why Christianity is as much, if not more, about each individual as it is about the masses.

When Jesus ascended, He promised a Comforter for His disciples. Shortly thereafter, the Holy Spirit came on the day of Pentecost to the disciples in the upper room. This was prophecied by the Old Testament prophet Joel. The apostles then began spreading the Gospel like wild fire--they were forever changed; different people entirely. That is what happens to people who stay in the Spirit...they stay in a perpetual state of change. We Christians are to pursue a likeness to Christ, and if we are to be like Christ, either we or Christ is going to have to change. I can guarantee one thing: It won't be Christ, lol.

Now, I say that when you become saturated with the Spirit, and when you start getting drunk on the New Wine(I'm not kidding, in a good service, y'all would probably think that I was drunk...or high..or something. It's just great, because you don't get sick.), you become in no small degree directed by the Spirit in all matters.

If there are Christians here who disagree with my views on the Holy Spirit, I direct you all to the Book of Acts. You'll find it between the Gospel of John and the Epistle to the Romans. Also, look throughout the New Testament. Haha, and even the Old, for that matter.

Anyway, to be honest, Jenna, I don't know how to answer your question. Maybe you can rephrase it or something. I actually don't know where those four paragraphs above came from, lol. OK, yeah, I do. Haha, God is good. I'm so trippin' right now.

-Justin

[Dark Youkai]

I respect you, Justin, for your spiritual maturity and agree whole-heartedly with what you've said. I just want to say that I had the unfortunate experience of going to a church where people shoved religion down my throat, trying to force Jesus into my heart instead of giving me the chance to except Him willingly. Unfortunately as well, this caused me to get off to a bad start with Christianity. I agree with Justin about religious people: they tend to have their own religion. For instance, I was criticized indirectly by a pastor who didn't believe in the Gifts of the Holy Spirit, when I did. Every person seems to have their own opinion on how Christianity should work, and many have a tendency to strongly enforce their beliefs whether the Bible does or not.

I would just like to say that i don't think anyone should feel pushed away from God because of a bad church experience. You learn to rely on God and His Word, because lots of Christians tend to be the meanest people sometimes. It's like that saying goes, (and i'm paraphrasng here) "don't let stress kill you off- let the church help." I'm asking people, try not to judge Christianity too much by the Christians, because all men are mortal. Try to understand through God instead, because Jesus is our greatest example.

I hope i didn't sound like i was forcing a religion, i just felt i needed to say that.

-Ayami

[Guest thelozt]

hmm... personally, i'm a christian, and that works for me. (you know, god made me jesus saved me, so when i screw up i'm forgiven...) but your thing seemed pretty impartial. my faith has been proven enough for me, otherwise, whats the point? but i still wonder about athiests. why, believing that there is no point to life, would you bother to get up in the morning at all? i mean, if i woke up to something that depressing, i'd roll over and go back to sleep. which leads back to dreams... and i'm gonna let someone else handle that.
"who runs your universe?"

[James]

[color=#332E1D][font=franklin gothic medium]thelozt, please don't double post. You may want to read our rules page for further information on that.

Instead of double-posting, simply edit your previous post with the new information. Thanks.[/color][/font]