eleanor Posted October 13, 2003 Share Posted October 13, 2003 [size=1] *eyes implode* WHAT HAPPENED TO ROGER AND DOROTHY?! Ah...I loved that pairing. ^_~ I hope one didn't die or anything. ....... So someone can tell me, because I'm not planning on watching Big O soon. :toothy: The calling of the Dark Side is unresistable. Heh. But I'll just state the obvious again. If you don't like it, don't read/watch it, and don't flame people about it because it only causes for problems.[/size] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dagger Posted October 13, 2003 Share Posted October 13, 2003 I love Roger/Dorothy too. She's a refreshing change from the usual nice, submissive female android. Anyway, in last night's episode, [spoiler]her memory circuits were ripped out, which basically rendered her catatonic[/spoiler]. Poor Roger.... it was very sad. The thing is, it's entirely possible to like het, shonen-ai, and shoujo-ai. There's no need to be "partisan" about it, since shonen-ai relationships don't conflict with het relationships any more than various het pairings do with each other. Case in point: In Final Fantasy VII, there's a love triangle between Cloud (the male lead), Aeris, and Tifa. If Vincent (or Zack, for example) had been a part of that love triangle instead of one of the girls, that wouldn't actually have changed the overall situation. Cloud would still need to choose between the two people who were romantically interested in him. See what I'm trying to say? ~Dagger~ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eleanor Posted October 13, 2003 Share Posted October 13, 2003 [size=1] The Zack/Cloud pairing was actually quite possible. [spoiler] When Cloud and Zack were being used as expermients with the Mako poisoning, they spent years together, knowing that the other was the only one to confide in.[/spoiler] ^_~ That's my take.[/size] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dagger Posted October 13, 2003 Share Posted October 13, 2003 *grins* I agree. I wish that there had been more about Zack's character in the game. And for someone surrounded by beautiful women, Cloud seemed pretty content not to make any moves. I call it the Tenchi Syndrome. To ILoveBebop: Although I share your opinion, it was a little unfair of you to tell Daigo that you didn't want to hear his arguments on the subject. After all, why post in a thread like this if you have no desire to engage in some healthy debate? Just a thought. ~Dagger~ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IloveBebop Posted October 13, 2003 Share Posted October 13, 2003 Sorry, it's just that I don't like to hear about other people's problems. What I really don't want to hear is discrimination on yaoi pairings and the people who created them. It's not really our (or the creators of these shows) decision. That's just my opinion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kyo no Ryu Posted October 13, 2003 Share Posted October 13, 2003 Whats the arguing for? Let the people watch their yaoi and leave them alone. This thread is pretty much pointless. Why is it not closed? This isnt about your favorite pairing its why you watch and thats been clarified, sothis thread is pretty much over. Anyway heres my opinion...: Yaoi is like yuri for girls. but not always, sometimes yaoi is made to make other yaoi feel secure or more in their relation (they can relate to it). Or maybe its just for you to laugh at them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest InuyashasLover Posted October 13, 2003 Share Posted October 13, 2003 Ya know....I hate ppl who take yaoi into consideration. It's not true. Hiei and Kurama have been given the Yaoi title on another messageboard that I post at and I hate it...I pisses me off...Yaoi is just....stupid Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zen Posted October 13, 2003 Share Posted October 13, 2003 you guys, I hope you know I was just kiddin' around about the 'Dark Side' thing. Just a joke, so don't take it seriously! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dagger Posted October 14, 2003 Share Posted October 14, 2003 [QUOTE][i]Originally posted by InuyashasLover [/i] [B]Ya know....I hate ppl who take yaoi into consideration. It's not true. Hiei and Kurama have been given the Yaoi title on another messageboard that I post at and I hate it...I pisses me off...Yaoi is just....stupid [/B][/QUOTE] Okay, so you hate me. I really couldn't care less. However, it'd be nice if you chose to clarify [i]why[/i] you dislike yaoi so strongly, and why it's "stupid." Thanks. Do you feel the same way about yuri, then? Simply stating your opinion, without providing any kind of justification for it, will not lead to any meaningful discussion. Daigo: Heh, I knew you were joking. And even though we disagree, I appreciate the fact that you're reasonable about it. ~Dagger~ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eleanor Posted October 14, 2003 Share Posted October 14, 2003 [size=1][QUOTE][i]Originally posted by InuyashasLover [/i] [B]Ya know....I hate ppl who take yaoi into consideration. It's not true. Hiei and Kurama have been given the Yaoi title on another messageboard that I post at and I hate it...I pisses me off...Yaoi is just....stupid [/B][/QUOTE] You're just inconsiderate, close-minded, and mean.[/size] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zen Posted October 14, 2003 Share Posted October 14, 2003 Thank you, Dagger. I too enjoy a good debate on subjects, such as this. That is why every time a yoai thread comes up, I post. The debate is very entertaining. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aoshi Shinomori Posted October 14, 2003 Share Posted October 14, 2003 I don't have a problem with yaoi...it doesn't really matter to me...I don't approve of it...but...I can't change people's preferences on what to like and what not to like...I just read through maladjusted's sig...I am disturbed about the Aoshi and Sojiro pairing...Aoshi is my favorite anime character...seeing that sends chills down my back...but...you're entitled to put whatever you want in your sig...no complaints... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MillieFan Posted October 14, 2003 Share Posted October 14, 2003 Yeah. Aoshi/Kenshin is a better idea than Aoshi/Sojiro. . .or at least it's somewhat intriguing. I wonder if there are any A/K fics out there. Anyway, back on topic, only you can decide whether you should or should not watch/read shounen ai and/or yaoi. It's your decision in the end, and everyone has their own reasons. :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IloveBebop Posted October 17, 2003 Share Posted October 17, 2003 Aoshi/Sojiro? That's a little weird, in my opinion. They're different from my small preference. I haven't been able to see that many episodes. I had a busy schedule during the time when most of the middle episodes came on. To get on topic, yaoi isn't real. If you don't like it, then don't even pay attention to it. It's be stupid if you are a homophobe and you read it. I'm not trying to give offense, I'm just giving an example. Some people question why yaoi even exists (I don't). Everyone's opinion of yaoi is different. You can question them, but they won't change it. No one but the person can change the person's opinion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sere Tuscumbia Posted October 17, 2003 Share Posted October 17, 2003 [size=1]While I have no patience for reading all 4 pages and a couple of extra posts, I'm pretty sure the difference between yaoi and shounen-ai (also yuri and shoujo-ai) hasn't been explained. Because that small little difference is one of the reasons that I really don't tolerate yaoi. And before any of ya'll go off on me, I'll explain. Yaoi, as explained in the monthly comic [I]Animerica[/I], is a sexual situation between two men. And yes, I know quite fully that sexual situations in anime/manga is an intergral part of the Japanese lifestyle, but yaoi is, as described by [I]Animerica[/I], pointless, plotless sex between two males. I may be quoting this wrong, because that was last month's issue, and it's been proven that the memory can be corrupted quite easily, but I'm fairly sure that was the main gist of the whole explanation. Shounen-ai is lesser stuff, you know, cuddling and snuggling and hugging and holding hands and everything. And while I am purely non-tolerant about yaoi (because I think it hentai between males o_o;;), I do support shounen-ai, as long as it's part of the original written plotline. I feel that people take too many liberties when it comes to off-plotline couples, and I like my characters to stay in character. O_o;; OTT, I don't really think I could submit any more on the subject, because I don't watch a lot of anime, and I mainly read heterosexual mangas. *shrugs* I'm just not the kind of gal who gets turned on by seeing two guys together. Something to do with brain chemistry, I'm sure . . . o_o;; --Sere[/size] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MillieFan Posted October 17, 2003 Share Posted October 17, 2003 Yeah, in that instance, Sere, I'm a fan of shounen-ai because I *detest* PWP in any form, het or same-gender. To me, sexual content with no artistic reason for existence aside from "getting the readers hot" is one of the very few reasons (along with serious Mary Sue/SI characters and illegibility due to massive technical errors) that I will absolutely NOT read a fanfic. I'm fine if the content isn't too graphic, is implied, and/or has a serious reason for being there (i.e. to show an attribute or angle of the character, like in that wonderful Knives/Legato fic called "strange and beautiful" by Naito Tenshi). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IloveBebop Posted October 17, 2003 Share Posted October 17, 2003 That is true. I guess there is no real point to yaoi. There are some exceptions to this, however. Like when the characters are actually given reasons to do what they do. Not all sexual situations are like porn. Once again, yaoi is [b]not real[/b]. If you don't like it, don't bother to look for it or at it. Just remember that it's fan fiction, not manga created by the creators (I just realized that that sounds a little weird). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eleanor Posted October 18, 2003 Share Posted October 18, 2003 [size=1] Exactly why I think this thread is getting a bit pointless.[/size] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dagger Posted October 18, 2003 Share Posted October 18, 2003 [QUOTE][i]Originally posted by IloveBebop [/i] [B]Once again, yaoi is [b]not real[/b]. If you don't like it, don't bother to look for it or at it. Just remember that it's fan fiction, not manga created by the creators (I just realized that that sounds a little weird). [/B][/QUOTE] Er, I've got a quick correction to make. First of all, some yaoi/shonen-ai is real, some is not. I assume that by "real," you mean "canon." In that case, there are many examples of canon shonen-ai couples.... including Shuichi/Yuki from Gravitation, Tsuzuki/Hisoka from Yami no Matsuei, and Itsuki/Sensui from Yu Yu Hakusho. Other pairings are open to interpretation. For example, Yoshihiro Togashi, the creator of Yu Yu Hakusho, specifically stated that although he didn't originally mean for Hiei and Kurama to be together, the readers/viewers could decide for themselves whether or not the two were romantically involved. Lastly, some couples are simply extremely unlikely, or have been denied by the people who created those characters. These would probably be found solely in the realm of fanfiction. ~Dagger~ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MillieFan Posted October 18, 2003 Share Posted October 18, 2003 I think it's getting really pointless too, neither side is going to "win," and this entire debate is rather silly, to think about it. :) By the way, for the fans here, what's your absolute favorite serious shounen ai/yaoi story (i.e. not a parody or humor fic)? Mine are "Only A Human," and "Human Emotions" by Annie-chan, "Slave," by Space-Weazel, "Slav" by Madmax2, "Und von den Frauen, Nichts" by Bennu, and and the aforementioned "strange and beautiful," by Naito Tenshi. There are others, but these are among the best K/L fics on fanfiction.net. . . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eleanor Posted October 18, 2003 Share Posted October 18, 2003 [size=1] [b]KP Duty[/b] and [b]Coming Clean[/b] by Animom are, in my opinion, great fanfictions. They're Yugioh fanfictions, focusing not mainly around shounen-ai pairings, but Seto Kaiba. Before all the anti-yaoi-ists come in a flame me to death, I will say that YES I was a fan of Yugioh shounen-ai. Mostly my obsession with Kaiba, but whatever. Those two fics are absolutely [i]wonderful[/i] stories. The author has a very distinct writing style, almost poetic in a sense. Yugioh shounen-ai fan or not, you guys should read it. Like I said, it's more focused around developing and discovering Seto Kaiba's self, and I'm in love with it. [b]Stygian Solace[/b] by Uzumaki-sama is also a well-written shounen-ai fiction, centering around the Riku/Sora pairing. I don't even like that pairing, but I like the story. I guess that says a lot. [b]When I'm Gone[/b] by Jen0va99. Focusing around Sephiroth/Cloud and Riku/Sora. Nicely done, just a all-round good fanfiction to read. [b]Faith[/b] by Dragongirl16 is a fanfiction about Harry Potter and Draco Malfoy. I [i]know[/i] this pairing has absolutely no proof, but it grows on you. The ficiton is about the trials Harry faces when his friends betray him, and how he forms a relationship with Malfoy. Sounds corny, but it's actually a good story. [b]Fusion[/b] by Knowing Shadows. It's a Sephiroth/Cloud fic taking place in the FFVII world. Lord knows how hard it is for me find a good Sephiroth/Cloud fic, not to mention Cloud and Zack. ^_~ Anyways, it's a great story. [b]Asides[/b] by Jen0va99: nice story with a setting of pre-game FVII. Just talks about the all but strange triangle relationship between Cloud, Zack, and Sephiroth. [b]Pianoforte[/b] by Alleyprowler. Not exactly the best Gundam Wing fanficiton out there, but one of my favorites. ^_~ Centers around Trowa/Quatre and small bits of 1+2 This is off-topic, but everybody MUST read the works of Random1377. [if you're a fan of Evangelion] He does not have a single shounen-ai fanfiction in his list of works, but his stories are compelling and extremely well-written. I think he's the best Evangelion fanfiction writer...ever.[/size] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MillieFan Posted October 18, 2003 Share Posted October 18, 2003 Animom? I've talked to Animom-she's even on my AIM buddy list! Wow. . .I didn't think I'd hear about her here :) So this post isn't deleted as chatty spam, I have other favorite shounen ai pairings, for Trigun that would be Legato/Midvalley. From other series, my favorites are Kenshin/Sano (Ruruoni Kenshin), although I'd like to find an Aoshi/Kenshin fic for one really strange fangirl reason ~.^, Heero/Duo (Gundam Wing) is another favorite, and Gren/Vicious (Cowboy Bebop) is kind of growing on me. As for games, I like Squall/Irvine (FFVIII). I know, total fan creation, but I really find that whimpering Rinoa and that chirpy Selphie so annoying. I also like Zidane/Vivi (FFIX) shounen ai (although not even implied yaoi for this couple), and some other RPG couples. Does anyone know of some good fics with any of these pairings? :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dagger Posted October 18, 2003 Share Posted October 18, 2003 Zidane/Vivi?? No offense, hon, but that's too weird for even me. On another note, I've never heard of yaoi as being "pointless, plotless sex." According to what I've read, shonen-ai and shoujo-ai is mostly mild, fluffy romance; yaoi and yuri is simply more intense, serious, mature, and [i]sometimes[/i] more sexual. Hentai is hentai, whether het, male/male, or female/female. But I doubt that most people who call themselves fans of yaoi mean to imply that they're fans of PWP. Just a tip. ~Dagger~ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soujirou Posted October 20, 2003 Share Posted October 20, 2003 Milliefan, KuroiYousei writes some of Aoshi/Kenshin in their stories (but mostly its Saitou/Sano) About yaoi being pointless, Yaoi stands for Yama-nashi (no climax), Ochi-nashi (no point), Imi-nashi (no meaning). So more or less, its ment to be. also, quit flameing, its annoying... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IloveBebop Posted October 20, 2003 Share Posted October 20, 2003 I've seen a picture with Sephi and Vincent (FF7) kissing. I found it weird and funny at the same time. :idea: Vincent/Sephi are most likely one of the weirdest yaoi couples, ever. If you want to find it, just search for Sephiroth in google images. About yaoi being pointless, some yaoi actually does have a point, but with what Soujirou said, that would be wrong, and not really yaoi. So, I guess most yaoi is made as it should be. I also agree that this thread is getting pointless. We keep saying the same things. It's going no where. Right now, I think that this thread should be closed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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