Wicca and Witchcraft

[craig8429]

[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by Valen [/i]
For all we know, there could be nothing that made the Earth, universe, etc., but a simple chemical reaction or something of the sort. Our bodies may not even have a spirit/soul or even serve a purpose on this planet, except to give the parental bodies hapiness for a while. Heh, that's kind of depressing too... [/B][/QUOTE]


If nothing made the earth what made the chemical's for the reaction to take place? if you root back far enough something had to create something. I personally Believe in the big bang. Science has proven many things in this world and I stick to that.

I do believe that something made the stars to make the big bang happen, other wise how would it just have appeared?

So I personally feel their is something higher and more powerful then us. We honestly may never know.
(i'm sorry if this doesn't make sense)

[Genkai]

Some of you might remember this comic about the idea that everyone's out to get them that some wiccan have:

[img]http://www.otakuboards.com/attachment.php?s=&postid=390453[/img]

This is not to say I don't like wiccans as a whole. I have several friends who are wiccan. I have noticed, though, that many wiccans feel that everyone's trying to oppress them and that they're right bout everything and are better than you because you are any other religion?especially christian.

[craig8429]

[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by Genkai [/i]
[B]Some of you might remember this comic about the idea that everyone's out to get them that some wiccan have:

[img]http://www.otakuboards.com/attachment.php?s=&postid=390453[/img]

This is not to say I don't like wiccans as a whole. I have several friends who are wiccan. I have noticed, though, that many wiccans feel that everyone's trying to oppress them and that they're right bout everything and are better than you because you are any other religion?especially christian. [/B][/QUOTE]

LOL!!!!!! amazingly funny comic.

I have several friends who practice wicca, it all is comes down to if your happy in what you believe...believe!

[Valen]

[quote]I have noticed, though, that many wiccans feel that everyone's trying to oppress them and that they're right bout everything and are better than you because you are any other religion?especially christian.[/quote]

No, Genkai, we just dislike the fact that Christians mutilated us then moved on as if nothing happened, leaving us to be the outcasts of society and feared by most. There are still many that try to oppress us and many of us have had some kind of hatred attack against us for being Wiccan and not wanting to become Christian.

[The Original]

[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by Valen [/i]
[B]Yes, that is very true. We don't know for sure, and nor does anyone that hasn't died yet, and there's not many ways to find out then, now is there? lol, unless somoene conducts a seance to speak directly to a spirit that has passed and ask that spirit to kindly tell us the truth and who/what it is, if anything.

For all we know, there could be nothing that made the Earth, universe, etc., but a simple chemical reaction or something of the sort. Our bodies may not even have a spirit/soul or even serve a purpose on this planet, except to give the parental bodies hapiness for a while. Heh, that's kind of depressing too... [/B][/QUOTE]

Valen and GaurdianStorm, you both are a tad hypocritical. You seem to be going on and on about how there's no proof of God, Heaven, or Hell. Where's the proof Wiccan beliefs exist? Where has magic been scientifically proven? I'm not a Christian; in fact, I'm not in any religion, I'm an agnostic. However, I don't like it when people presume to know everything about a rival religion. Want to know why people respect and honor the Bible? Because they believe it to be the Word of God. You don't need another reason. They believe what they believe, as you do. Please leave it at that. Also Valen, the creation of Earth has not been proven either. What was it you said about contacting dead people...it's impossible? Well, tell me how you can go back in time and see the creation of the world. Sure, there are ideas; but their proof is as founded and disputed as ideas of creationism. Please don't presume to know everything.

Did I come off as anal-retentive in this post? Gee, hope not. :D

[Guest Skyechild91]

[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by The Original [/i]
[B]Valen and GaurdianStorm, you both are a tad hypocritical. You seem to be going on and on about how there's no proof of God, Heaven, or Hell. Where's the proof Wiccan beliefs exist? Where has magic been scientifically proven? [/B][/QUOTE]
I never said that christian god doesnt exist and that ours do. i said that we have no proof that [I][B][U]ANY[/U][/B][/I] god/ess exists.

[Gohan Egret]

[QUOTE]If he was all powerful, ho come it took him 7 days to finish the world? Couldn't HE have said,' World,be.' and it would have been, right? That still confuses and amuses me.[/QUOTE]

You assume 7 days is 7 days in our self-established time. 7 days to God could have been a blink of His eye for all we understand. Truth is, it is a story. The story of creation. Is it 100% accurate? We will never know. All Christians can do is have faith in God, and that His word is Law.

[QUOTE]Just a small question on that... How, in a very formal way, would you be "saved" from something created by one man who was bored, wrote a book, someone picked it up and considered it a "holy manuscript," then made a religion of it?[/QUOTE]

The Bible was far from being written by one person. Take a look at the book titles - Job, Matthew, Mark, Luke, John, etc. Many are named for the people who were being written about or had a hand in the writing itself.

Oh, and please, for future reference, Jesus DID live. Jesus the man did live in ~30 A.D. Whether or not you believe Jesus the Savior existed/exists is an entirely different concept.

Back on topic, I am not going to hold one religion/belief under the microscope and claim its "purity" or "validity." To each his own. I am not the most die-hard Catholic, but many things have stuck with me after 3 years of religion classes in high school (and yes, we were taught about the other world religions, too - Buddhism, Judaism, Shintoism, Hinduism, Islam, etc.).

If Wiccans or Hindu's or Buddhists or Agnostic want to believe that way, then fine. I cannot take a spear to you and state, "You are a traitor to [enter deity] and you shall suffer." What I CAN do is offer some kind words of wisdom and advice, nothing more, nothing less.

[Megumi]

There are only two supernatural forces, one for good, one for evil. All that is good comes from God, all that is evil comes from Satan, therefore anything that is not from God is from Satan. Wicca, though seemingly harmless, is under that category because it supports idolatry and confuses the ideas of good and evil. It's just another good thing (respect and love for nature) that has been twisted into something wrong. The Bible spoke specifically against sun/moon worshippers, I believe.

Another thing, you say you believe in "God," and by that I assume you are referring to the Christian God. However, your ideas show that you couldn't possibly believe in the Christian God because if you did believe in an all powerful being who created the universe, you would realize it's foolish to worship the creation and not the creator. Call it what you want, but this "God" you speak of is not the one I know.

I don't know much about Unitarians, except that my youth group leader was one. A very active one I might add. I wish I knew more, but all I know is that she realized what a trap she was in and became a Christian. It wasn't easy for her, and there's quite a story behind that.

Drix, for all your Christian arguments, your signature disturbs me. I am aquainted with Jonny the Homocidial Maniac through secular friends, as well as Interview with a Vampire, though I've never read an entire Jonny Comic or seen the Anne Rice movie or read the book, I know enough that they aren't very good influences. Also, the Bible is clear about gay relationships, so why are you in a yaoi fan club? I'm sorry, I don't mean to be critical or to condemn, but that doesn't show the Christian character that you display in your arguments.

[craig8429]

[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by Megumi [/i]
[B]There are only two supernatural forces, one for good, one for evil. All that is good comes from God, all that is evil comes from Satan, therefore anything that is not from God is from Satan. Wicca, though seemingly harmless, is under that category because it supports idolatry and confuses the ideas of good and evil. It's just another good thing (respect and love for nature) that has been twisted into something wrong. The Bible spoke specifically against sun/moon worshippers, I believe.

Another thing, you say you believe in "God," and by that I assume you are referring to the Christian God. However, your ideas show that you couldn't possibly believe in the Christian God because if you did believe in an all powerful being who created the universe, you would realize it's foolish to worship the creation and not the creator. Call it what you want, but this "God" you speak of is not the one I know.

I don't know much about Unitarians, except that my youth group leader was one. A very active one I might add. I wish I knew more, but all I know is that she realized what a trap she was in and became a Christian. It wasn't easy for her, and there's quite a story behind that.

Drix, for all your Christian arguments, your signature disturbs me. I am aquainted with Jonny the Homocidial Maniac through secular friends, as well as Interview with a Vampire, though I've never read an entire Jonny Comic or seen the Anne Rice movie or read the book, I know enough that they aren't very good influences. Also, the Bible is clear about gay relationships, so why are you in a yaoi fan club? I'm sorry, I don't mean to be critical or to condemn, but that doesn't show the Christian character that you display in your arguments. [/B][/QUOTE]



The belief of good and evil is called Zoroastrianism. So when you say right vs. wrong your technically Claiming a different religion.(but I do understand what your saying.)

The bible is mistranslated; it's proven in many updates of it.

For a fact the bible was written 200 years after Jesus died, so the stories were pasted down many times so I believe they lost lots of the facts in it.

Yoai isn't all about hardcore sex, it's about the emotions towards another male, it can be a perfectly nonsexual relationship.


We live in a country where we are allowed to choose our own religion, this means if your offended by someone?s religion you don't have to listen to it.

Really the only people who don't have freedom of religion is people who live in a dictated country. I don't think there is anyone here who is so we should all just be happy that we can have our own religion.

[Genkai]

[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by Valen [/i]
[B]No, Genkai, we just dislike the fact that Christians mutilated us then moved on as if nothing happened, leaving us to be the outcasts of society and feared by most. There are still many that try to oppress us and many of us have had some kind of hatred attack against us for being Wiccan and not wanting to become Christian. [/B][/QUOTE]


Wow. This thread is beautiful. Lenghty, well composed, and on topic posts that relate directly to the topic at hand and express opinions and facts in a civilized manner. I'm tearing up. *slow claps*

Anyway, you are NOT the outtcasts of society? know why? Because socity as a whole isx to large for people to make generalizations like that. Are you outcasts in the western and mainly christian society? No. You aren't unable to get jobs because you're wiccan. You aren't seperated from other people in groups. Get over yourself.


Anyway? most of the "witches" from the witch trials throughout Europe by christians were not practicing wiccans. I'd say that of all the men and women killed for witchcraft, maybe 10 of them were "witches" who practiced wicca. was it wrong to kill people for what you thought were their beliefs even if they weren't? Yes, it was wrong. Does that mean we don't regret it? Of course, as a croup of people, Christians hope nothing like that will happen again.


Are we ostracizing wiccans? Do people fear them? No. Do people come up to those of you wiccans on the street and shout "WITCH!!! BURN HER!!!" and then a crowd of people appear with torches and you are burnt on the stake? Yes. Yes, that happens everyday. And you're next. :rolleyes:


Anyway, there are still people out there trying to oppress you? It probbaly goes a tad wee bit like this.



Oppressors: I think I'll go oppress some wiccans

Wiccans: AHHHHHH!!!!!!! We're so oppressed!

Oppressor: Muahaha!

No. NO. This doesn't happen. Find me some oppressors if oyu're still being oppressed. I'm serious, if anyon'e oppressing you, it's yourself... It semes like many wiccans want to be oppressed. Because that's cool, man, no one likes me, I'm so weird and different. Yay.


Woo, sorry, for the jumping topics. Speaking of which, maybe I'll go out jumping wiccans. They're so fun to oppress.


:toothy:

[Valen]

[quote]Also Valen, the creation of Earth has not been proven either. [/quote]

Never said it was....

[quote]What was it you said about contacting dead people...it's impossible? [/quote]

It is very possible and has happened in many cases.

[quote]Well, tell me how you can go back in time and see the creation of the world. Sure, there are ideas; but their proof is as founded and disputed as ideas of creationism. Please don't presume to know everything.[/quote]

I'm not. I'm telling what I've been taught, nothing more.

[quote]Did I come off as anal-retentive in this post?[/quote]

Just a bit....

[quote]We live in a country where we are allowed to choose our own religion, this means if your offended by someone?s religion you don't have to listen to it.[/quote]

Which also means you shouldn't go around saying "Oh! You're not Christian! I'll pray for you and try to save you!" or "What? You're not Christian? YOU'RE GOING TO HELL!"

The above was not directed directly towards anyone, only those who run around saying it. Trust me, it'll only make the people hate you more.

On a lighter note....

[quote]There are only two supernatural forces, one for good, one for evil. All that is good comes from God, all that is evil comes from Satan, therefore anything that is not from God is from Satan. Wicca, though seemingly harmless, is under that category because it supports idolatry and confuses the ideas of good and evil. It's just another good thing (respect and love for nature) that has been twisted into something wrong.[/quote]

I see what you're saying, but Wicca doesn't support or deny anything really. Like I said before, it's not Wicca as a whole, but the ones who do bad things that gets recognized the most, thus making it seem that Wiccans are these Satanists out to kill everything, sacrafice pigs, birds, lizards, and other creatures. Definately not what most Wiccans do, rather, we try to strive for harmony on all levels... but when we get nagged at to "convert to Christianity and be saved or you're going to hell!" That's when we get angry... and you really don't want to get a heavy practitioner of the Dark Arts angry. Trust me.

[craig8429]

[QUOTE]
Which also means you shouldn't go around saying "Oh! You're not Christian! I'll pray for you and try to save you!" or "What? You're not Christian? YOU'RE GOING TO HELL!"

The above was not directed directly towards anyone, only those who run around saying it. Trust me, it'll only make the people hate you more.

On a lighter note....[/QUOTE]

Your right, people shouldn't run around screaming your going to hell. Think of it from my prospective, I've been called atheist because I believe in science saying the world was created by an explosion that formed the sun. Even know I actually believe there is a god.

People are cruel that?s why the amendments give us a freedom. I know what Wicca is, my sister actually practiced for a long time, but my views are different and I hope people understand that.

Also if anyone tells you your wrong for what you believe in you should just tell them ? what if your religion is wrong?? there is no proof anyone?s religion is right so what can they say.

[Dagger]

[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by Valen [/i]
[B]Like I said before, it's not Wicca as a whole, but the ones who do bad things that gets recognized the most, thus making it seem that Wiccans are these Satanists out to kill everything, sacrafice pigs, birds, lizards, and other creatures. Definately not what most Wiccans do, rather, we try to strive for harmony on all levels... but when we get nagged at to "convert to Christianity and be saved or you're going to hell!" That's when we get angry... and you really don't want to get a heavy practitioner of the Dark Arts angry. Trust me. [/B][/QUOTE]

Look, your argument would have been fairly solid were it not for that last statement ("you really don't want to get a heavy practitioner of the Dark Arts angry"). But you can't simultaneously say that the majority of Wiccans are peace-loving folk, and then [i]threaten[/i] those who try to alter your views.

I'm not even a practicing Christian, and I found your attitudes towards Christians insulting. Your views towards Christianity are just as rife with stereotypes as the views of many Christians towards Wicca. And don't pretend that Wiccans are the only people who get "nagged at" to convert to Christianity. That's far from the truth. Do you think that Christians totally pass over Jews, Muslims, Hindus, Buddhists, and members of any other religion in order to pester and annoy those poor, oppressed Wiccans?

I mean.... it just sounds like you guys feel really sorry for yourselves. Self-pity isn't the most attractive quality. The Jews of Europe had to endure the [i]Holocaust[/i]. The Salem Witch Trials didn't even target real Wiccans--the victims of those burnings were usually just eccentric old women whom the community forced to serve as scapegoats, not genuine practioners of the "Dark Arts," as you so glibly term them.

Now, bring on the hexes. ^_~

~Dagger~

[The Original]

[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by Megumi [/i]
[B] Drix, for all your Christian arguments, your signature disturbs me. I am aquainted with Jonny the Homocidial Maniac through secular friends, as well as Interview with a Vampire, though I've never read an entire Jonny Comic or seen the Anne Rice movie or read the book, I know enough that they aren't very good influences. Also, the Bible is clear about gay relationships, so why are you in a yaoi fan club? I'm sorry, I don't mean to be critical or to condemn, but that doesn't show the Christian character that you display in your arguments. [/B][/QUOTE]

Could you please explain to me how Interview with a Vampire is a bad influence? Last time I checked, reading a book didn't send you two hell. Now, if Drix read [I]Interview[/I] and decided to go slit some throats and chug some blood, yes, your idea would have a point. But as it stands, it doesn't. There's nothing wrong with the book (JthM, maybe. Lol.) There's nothing wrong with yaoi either. As craig8429 said, it is usually a non-sexual relationship.

[Drix D'Zanth]

[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by Valen [/i]
[B]OT: Lol, this has become quite the suprising thread.
IT:

Just a small question on that... How, in a very formal way, would you be "saved" from something created by one man who was bored, wrote a book, someone picked it up and considered it a "holy manuscript," then made a religion of it?

I'm not saying God doesn't exist, he very well could exist, but what I don't get, nor ever gotten because our so-called "priest" couldn't even answer this, is why do so many worship when their second commandment was "Thou shalt not worship" or idolize or something like that? They're breaking their own rules.
As for the whole "magic is evil" thing, what did that Moses dude use when he parted the Red Sea? Trade Winds?[/B][/QUOTE]


Ahh you got me there. I must've read over the portion of the Bible that says Moses uses wiccan Craft. *re-reads*... no wait... :rolleyes:

I love how you assume to know exactly how the bible came along. I'm sure you've met this man who created the faux word of God right? You have no idea how the Bible came along, or anything about christianity... How do I know?

"is why do so many worship when their second commandment was "Thou shalt not worship" or idolize or something like that? They're breaking their own rules." - You didn't even bother looking it up? Or were you too diluded in your own opinions to actually do some reasearch... The Bible commands God's followers to worship GOD and only GOD , that you cannot worship another idol or god... *sighs* You don't have to follow god *shrug* your loss :(

Oh, and the Bible doesn't save anyone. Recieving Jesus, being forgiven of your sins, is what saves someone. Once again.. please think before you type :D


[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by Valen [/i]
[B]Hell eh? And where might this Hell place be at, hmm?[/B][/QUOTE]

You'll know better than I. Where's heaven? Where's Diana and Luna? Where's all the Wiccan Craft? Nope.. no miriacles on TV, no [I]real[/I] spells. You know as well as I do that believing isn't necessarily seeing; don't try to pin me with a remark that bites both ways.. that just makes you look ...wrong. *shrug*

[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by Valen [/i]
[B]...Oh yeah, and if you think Wicca is a strict religion that has a base belief system that says you have to believe in multiple gods/goddesses, you're very wrong. You can believe in only one god or goddess and not be given a second thought, whereas in Christianity, if you don't believe in something about it you'll be looked on as someone who needs "saving" from the unknown. Which is another reason I like Wicca way more than Christianity. No offense to anyone that's a heavy believer of Christianity, but meh, just the way I see things.
[/B][/QUOTE]

I didn't say anything that you pin on me... your wiccan pal, Guardian Star did.

[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by Valen [/i]
[B]
Drix, for all your Christian arguments, your signature disturbs me. I am aquainted with Jonny the Homocidial Maniac through secular friends, as well as Interview with a Vampire, though I've never read an entire Jonny Comic or seen the Anne Rice movie or read the book, I know enough that they aren't very good influences. Also, the Bible is clear about gay relationships, so why are you in a yaoi fan club? I'm sorry, I don't mean to be critical or to condemn, but that doesn't show the Christian character that you display in your arguments. [/B][/QUOTE]

Yaoi means gay?..... :blush: Didn't know that! Well I dont ideolize the messages Interview with a Vampire or Johnny the Homocidal Maniac encourage, I flirt with the ideas, but I don't agree with them. I recognize them as petty and harmless entertainment. Plus, Lestat's badass... and we all love a good badass sometimes, don't we ? ;) No.. I just like vampires.. call me morbid or EVIL, *shrug* I don't take it as seriously as my banner suggests....

[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by Valen [/i]
[B]Which also means you shouldn't go around saying "Oh! You're not Christian! I'll pray for you and try to save you!" or "What? You're not Christian? YOU'RE GOING TO HELL!"

The above was not directed directly towards anyone, only those who run around saying it. Trust me, it'll only make the people hate you more. [/B][/QUOTE]

Christianity tells us to love eachother, even our enemies.
I'll give you an analogy: If you saw someone that you loved walking into a pool of water.. She/he cannot swim. Slowly but surely he/she will drown in the end. Let's say you are on the shore, and you have a life-preserver to save him/her(Jesus). Wouldn't you call out to them? Wouldn't you offer to throw them a life-preserver of their own?

If people are praying for you, please count your blesssings, It means they care. I don't want to see anyone I love OR hate go to hell, from what I belive, the place is far to terrible. Don't reject the opportunity to be saved because you are blinded by spite.

We as Christians aren't threatening you, or dooming you to Hell. Everone dooms his or herself....

[Vash's girl]

I do believe in this magic stuff the wiccans believe in. Being a Christian, I do not believe it is right. It said in the Bible that Saul (or at least I think it's him) got a gypsy to bring back the ghost of Moses. The gypsy did it! But... God was not happy. Basically, magic stuff like that is from satan. But that's just my belief. Don't post messages saying "well, i disagree", ok. The Bible was written by God. He told the people what to write and they wrote it. People need proof that God created the world? Just look around you! What else could have created this? The only reason this world is turning to poo is because God gave us free will. And drix- ya got the right idea! : )

[Cacophony]

[QUOTE]People need proof that God created the world? Just look around you! What else could have created this?[/QUOTE]

Why couldn't it be possible that one of the other "creator gods" from other religions have created it, or perhaps this is all a dream:laugh:

Basicly what I'm saying is that there's no way to prove it so stop bringing that ridiculous arguement up:p

I also would like to point out that Wicca and Witchcraft are two different things, Wicca was created in 1951(that's right no Wiccans have died in a witch hunt) by Gerald Gardner a former member of the Golden Dawn(a hermitic order) Witches(witchcraft) has been around for far longer.

Personally I'm not a big believer of magic but hypothetically if it did indeed exist I wouldn't consider it on the whole evil nor good for it would depend on what the "magic user" has decided to do with it.

[OlgaTheDwarf]

[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by Valen [/i]
[B] Hell eh? And where might this Hell place be at, hmm? [/B][/QUOTE]

[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by GuardianStorm [/i]
[B]Yeah, were? I know it isnt at the center of the earth, science. [/B][/QUOTE]

Wow, you guys think so 3 dimmensionally!:D Do you really think that scienece can comprehend the existence of Heaven or Hell? As a Christian I believe that there is One Perfect and Holy God. Being the Perfect God he is, he can't stand sin (or imperfection) to enter his Holy Kingdom (Heaven).

Now, God didn't just leave it at that, He gave us Salvation (kind of like a cleansing) from our sins through the sacrifice of His Son, Jesus. If you don't except this gift that God gives us your sins are not cleansed and they stay with you. So if God is perfect and will not live with imperfection, where do you think all the sin goes? To a place without God, of course. Also I'd like to add that we are created as "eternal being" so we have to go somewhere when we die, and if we still are un-cleansed of sin, we go with it.

So, what would a place without God be like? Well, the Bible states that "Every good and perfect gift comes from God," (James 1: around verse 19, or such). So think of all the good things in life, take them away, and you get a horrible place, or you could call it Hell. It may not be the "flaming pit" (but it could, who knows, certainly not me) that most envision it as, but the Bible says "that eternal seperation from God" is Hell, simply because God (or everything good) is not in it.

So in a way I just proved the exsitence of Hell for christians and people who believe in the Bible. I may not apply to you if you are a wiccan, but I was stating more why I and all christians should believe in Hell. And since my belief as a christian doesn't leave room for that "all religions are right" BS*, I also believe that Hell applies to everyone, wether you "think" so or not. I know that this Hell conversation is a little off-topic, but I did want to get my bit in, so sorry in advance.

[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by Valen [/i]
[B]...Oh yeah, and if you think Wicca is a strict religion that has a base belief system that says you have to believe in multiple gods/goddesses, you're very wrong. You can believe in only one god or goddess and not be given a second thought, whereas in Christianity, if you don't believe in something about it you'll be looked on as someone who needs "saving" from the unknown. Which is another reason I like Wicca way more than Christianity. No offense to anyone that's a heavy believer of Christianity, but meh, just the way I see things.
[/B][/QUOTE]

So what you are saying is that wiccans are free to make up their own religion, nothing constant, just whatever "feels" right. So it's completely based on emotional, disregarding wether or not something is right or wrong. There's no Logic in that and I would never place my life on it, let alone my eternal life. Why would you like something that has even the slightest possibility of leaving you open to eternal damnation?

Ps. If anyone ever has any question about Christianity you can feel free to PM me. I might not have all the answers but God does.

*by saying that "all religions are right" is a load of BS, I am certainly not trying to force anyone to believe me. So don't get all offended that I'm right.:D

[Epid3mic]

Heaven and Hell are nowhere. No, I do believe in them, but they do not exist in this material plain. "Places" exist to harbor matter, our souls are not matter, therefore heaven and hell are not places. Heaven and Hell are states of the soul. Heaven is union with God, perfect happiness. Hell is the eternal seperation of God, usually characterized by a sort of "physical", if you will, pain.

No offense to any wiccans out there, but the whole idea of wiccanism just...annoys me. I don't like the fact that there is no authority, no hierarchy, people are left to do whatever they please. Also, that they don't have anything original, they just pick and choose from other religions, mainly pagan ones.

BTW, I love JtHM. Do not diss Nny. He is cool.

[Heartless Me]

I just have one short message to say. Someone on this board said that jesus was the parachute on this crashing plane of a planet. Well there have been people that have survived sky diving at 20,000 feet after the chutes didn't work. It's all about faith........ Or fear.

[Cacophony]

[QUOTE]I don't like the fact that there is no authority, no hierarchy, people are left to do whatever they please.[/QUOTE]

So what you're saying is that you're against people having freedom?

The Bible said God gave people free will to do as they please are you against that too?

What about freedom of speach?

Should the world just have one dictator to tell us what to do think and feel?

[scrmngfangrl]

...maybe it's just me, but it seems like people are using jesus and god symonomisly...crap, i can't spell(you get the picture^^) anyway, i was wiccan for the shortest time a while back, now im buddist.

anyway, did you know the christmas tree is a phallic thingy taken from pagan un, stuff(the whole earth goddess getting empregnated then giving birth and gettting pregnant, " "?) hehe, how many ar still going near it now?::evil grin::

getting back to the parenthaces, did you notice how the catholic church since taking converting them took in the virgin mary and made her a biger deal than origanally? and the whole son thingy.

hell sounds a lot like hel, that one norse goddess.

notice how easter looks like oastare(crap, can't remeber sp)?

notice how satan is bdepicted looking like pan, tho the bible gives no desp of him?
wasn't someone talking about origanllity?(*yes, i do realize this was all created to convert those people easier, but if you've ever learned about the dark ages, dont say it was for the better^^)

well, maybe except for that hell-hel part, i just noticed that while reading a book that one time. it might have been taken from that.

anyway, i guess im done now^^

[Stick Fairy]

[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by Megumi [/i]
[B]
Another thing, you say you believe in "God," and by that I assume you are referring to the Christian God. However, your ideas show that you couldn't possibly believe in the Christian God because if you did believe in an all powerful being who created the universe, you would realize it's foolish to worship the creation and not the creator. Call it what you want, but this "God" you speak of is not the one I know.
[/B][/QUOTE]
[color=indigo]
I almost hate to say it, but saying the "Christian God" implies that there are more than one, and that you believe that there are more than one. Sorry.

I am kind of a cross between a monotheist and a polytheist. I believe that the many gods polytheists worship are many aspects of a divine power. I certainly don't believe in ANYONE sitting above the clouds and ruling us all. I don't believe anyone has that kind of power. I suppose one question this thread has ben skirting is What is God? I don't mean to turn this into a theology discussion, but I think it already has.

I have no specific religion. I celebrate major holidays, the Russian Orthodox Easter, and birthdays. I also practice "the Craft" as you put it. The way I see it, you all are trying to explain something that was created to explain the unexplainable. Most people's definition of magic is something impossible, or a physically improbable result with the help of something. They use it to explain phenomena. They don't get the fact that these phenomena are unexplainable. You must believe to see. Only one who acts upon magic can even hope to try and understand it.
[/color]

[The Original]

[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by Epid3mic [/i]
[B]Also, that they don't have anything original, they just pick and choose from other religions, mainly pagan ones. [/B][/QUOTE]

Could you explain to us what they have stolen? In Norse mythology, the chief god, Odin, crucified himself on the World Tree and was speared in the stomach. He later, of course, rose from the grave. I could say Christianity knocked off the whole Jesus crucifiction idea from that, seeing as the Norse version happened hundreds of years earlier. But I'm not! I'm not! Lol. Just saying there are a lot of similarities beween different religions, more than you'd think. What did the Wiccan's steal exactly?

[Drix D'Zanth]

[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by The Original [/i]
[B]Could you explain to us what they have stolen? In Norse mythology, the chief god, Odin, crucified himself on the World Tree and was speared in the stomach. He later, of course, rose from the grave. I could say Christianity knocked off the whole Jesus crucifiction idea from that, seeing as the Norse version happened hundreds of years earlier. But I'm not! I'm not! Lol. Just saying there are a lot of similarities beween different religions, more than you'd think. What did the Wiccan's steal exactly? [/B][/QUOTE]

Ahh that's right. I forgot the Book of Fundin.

Fundin 1:1-14

1 And then the pale faced, blond boy went to the romans, his muscles and size unlike anything thus seen. 2 The Roman's cried out with question, 3 What would they do about this Jewish King? 4 Fundin slaughtered a chicken with his bare hands, amazing Jerusalem 5 he proclaimed, 6 "uhh.. hi?" 7 "What sorcery is this? Are you of this.. Jesus?" , the romans asked shocked. 8 "I am Fundin the Noresman, I like to watch men die." 9 He picked up a rock and hit Aseodipus Marcelicus in his eye, killing him. 10 "Got milk?" He said, before taking a tree. 11 Fundin skewered a Jew on the tree crying 12 I am a crazy viking, kill your king like the tree this man and all of you shall live happily plundering the villages, taking the women, raping, burning, pillaging. It will be much fun and drunken swaggor!" 14. And so it was done..