Wicca and Witchcraft

[Justin]

[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by Cacophony [/i]
[B]So what you're saying is that you're against people having freedom?

The Bible said God gave people free will to do as they please are you against that too?

What about freedom of speach?

Should the world just have one dictator to tell us what to do think and feel? [/B][/QUOTE]

Classic case of someone who [i]thinks[/i] they know what they're talking about...

Yes, God gives men free will. Free will to choose Him, or to choose sin. However, aside from that, God is a God of order--as said in one of Paul's epistles.

Submission to authority--divine and delegated--is a absolute KEY point in the Bible that oh-so many miss. [b]Unless an authority asks you to defy the Word of God, you are to obey it.[/b]

Why? Because God says so, and He's bigger than you, lol.

God is not a God of anarchy; though, it can be used to His ends--as are all things. God is a God who delegates authority, and there is no authority either on the earth, in Heaven, or in Hell that does not derive its power from Him.

-Justin

[Baron Samedi]

Stares at Drix.... uuh yeah.

I have not read any of the rest of this thread, excepting this page, but Stick Fairy- you are wrong. Megumi was being polite and indicating respect for other people's beliefs by saying the Christian God. Also, it shows which one she is talking about. Just because you are so presumpteous as to ignore others beliefs entirely, and pretend that nobody else's idea and beliefes matter, doesn't mean she should. Maybe she doesn't believe in them, but if she said God, whilst it is unlikely, that could be misconstrued as being another being that another person believed in.

Megumi was only doing the right thing.

[scrmngfangrl]

hehe, drix, lmfao. dude, seriously, that was hillarious. you should do stuff like that for the sunday comics. you could get rich off it. :P
anyway, if you know a thing or two about religion, you'll notice there are so many similatities between religions that are across the world.
like the tri-god thingy...can't remeber its name...and uh, yeah a whole bunch of stuff.
hey, ever thought of how queer it was that when what's-his-face first landed on the americas he was welcomed my the...mayan-ish(don't know) native people because they saw the white sails and they were bearded, and christ was bearded and dressed in white after the ressurection and he supposed to be comeing?
yeah, uh, this is from mormon stuff, and i don't know how much of the beliefs they share with the rest of the christian population.
so there.;D

[Epid3mic]

Disclaimer- I'd just to say that in this post and my future posts, I MEAN TO OFFENSE TO WICCANS. So if it sounds rude or discrimitative, I apologize. ;)



[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by Cacophony [/i]
[B]So what you're saying is that you're against people having freedom?

The Bible said God gave people free will to do as they please are you against that too?

What about freedom of speach?

Should the world just have one dictator to tell us what to do think and feel? [/B][/QUOTE]

If someone gave me all the parts to make a car, just because I technically am able to use those parts to assemble a car, doesn't mean I automatically know how. What I'm saying is, by having no hierarchy, there is no one to consult when you don't understand something. Therefore, people end up making things up. And since their is no hierarchy, there is nothing to stop this. For example, GuardianStar says she believes in The Christian God. But I bet that there are other wiccans that do not. But, they are still both wiccans. Now say you have a faithful catholic. And then you have a catholic who says that he believes that Satan is better than God(just an example hehe). The thing there is that, the guy who believes the latter cannot be catholic and believe that, plain and simple. I'd rather have order in my religion, I wouldn't like to share the name "Christian", with a non-christian.

[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by The Original[/i]
[B]Could you explain to us what they have stolen? In Norse mythology, the chief god, Odin, crucified himself on the World Tree and was speared in the stomach. He later, of course, rose from the grave. I could say Christianity knocked off the whole Jesus crucifiction idea from that, seeing as the Norse version happened hundreds of years earlier. But I'm not! I'm not! Lol. Just saying there are a lot of similarities beween different religions, more than you'd think. What did the Wiccan's steal exactly?[/B][/QUOTE]

Wiccans didn't create the Greek gods. Wiccans didn't create the animal or elemental spirits. Wiccans didn't create God. Wiccans didn't create the Egyptian gods. I have yet to meet a Wiccan that worships their own God. You see, it's one thing to think that Christianity took the crucifixion idea from norse mythology(Which BTW, I don't believe is true), but- atleast they changed the names!


::looks around:: Umm, I'm sorry, that seemed kinda rude :( . I'll add a disclaimer.

[Cacophony]

[QUOTE]Classic case of someone who thinks they know what they're talking about...[/QUOTE]

Sorry that was ignorant of me to use the God gave free will speach before fully reading and understanding the bible the latter which I doubt will ever happen. I was merely questioning him to try to understand where he was coming from which he cleared up.

Though in my defense I was using that as a point to address his comment on not liking how people could do what they wanted not towards his wanting Hierarchy, I suppose I should have made that more clear.

[QUOTE]If someone gave me all the parts to make a car, just because I technically am able to use those parts to assemble a car, doesn't mean I automatically know how. What I'm saying is, by having no hierarchy, there is no one to consult when you don't understand something. Therefore, people end up making things up. And since their is no hierarchy, there is nothing to stop this. For example, GuardianStar says she believes in The Christian God. But I bet that there are other wiccans that do not. But, they are still both wiccans. Now say you have a faithful catholic. And then you have a catholic who says that he believes that Satan is better than God(just an example hehe). The thing there is that, the guy who believes the latter cannot be catholic and believe that, plain and simple. I'd rather have order in my religion, I wouldn't like to share the name "Christian", with a non-christian.[/QUOTE]

You(like most people) are confusing Wicca with Witchcraft. Wiccans either believe in the Goddess and the Horned-One or just the Goddess(Dianic Wiccans). Witchcraft on the other hand doesn't require a belief of any God or Goddess in order to practice it.

[craig8429]

[QUOTE]You(like most people) are confusing Wicca with Witchcraft. Wiccans either believe in the Goddess and the Horned-One or just the Goddess(Dianic Wiccans). Witchcraft on the other hand doesn't require a belief of any God or Goddess in order to practice it.[/QUOTE]

I've also noticed alot of people refering to wicca as Witchcraft.

Christan people shouldn't go around screaming and forcing people to believe in something they don't, but since we have freedom of speech we are given the right to choose who we listen to.

Everyone here who is arguing about how christanity is right, your not thinking of the views of others. Everyone has their own opinons noone can stop that. Noone is forcing anyone to change religions so quit trying to force others to believe yours.

When people try forcing people to listen what happens? They begin to hate listening.

Also remember one more thing, people are raised diffrently.
Some people are rasied christan and choose to stay that way.
a millions have a diffrent religion then you, because of how they were raised.
so don't force people in your belief's.

[Japan]

I am sorry that you feel that way craig8429. I am not trying to force anything on anyone, I was just merely expressing my views and my views are plain and simple. I believe that both Wicca and Witchcraft are bad, and that is my opinion. I am not trying to force you to believe anything.

[Justin]

Unfortunately for the rest of you, Christians are commanded to present the Gospel to the nations. That, of course, does not include attempting to force others to believe it. As yet, I haven't read where any Christian in this topic has done anything more than they are supposed to do.

-Justin

[craig8429]

[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by Japan_86 [/i]
[B]I am sorry that you feel that way craig8429. I am not trying to force anything on anyone, I was just merely expressing my views and my views are plain and simple. I believe that both Wicca and Witchcraft are bad, and that is my opinion. I am not trying to force you to believe anything. [/B][/QUOTE]

I understand a 100% what your trying to say japan_86 but I mind you saying something is bad is a understatement if you've never tried it.

not one person can honestly judge with out being in the position of another.

We are given the right to choose what we believe. but noone has the right to tell someone it's wrong because, noone knows.

If anyone can show a 100% positive proof that they're religion is right by all means stun me in disbelief. otherwise noone should be able to me the statement whats right and wrong.
(Japan- i'm not directing this at you i'm just making a statement to show what I mean.)


And as for justin's answer
[QUOTE] Unfortunately for the rest of you, Christians are commanded to present the Gospel to the nations. That, of course, does not include attempting to force others to believe it. As yet, I haven't read where any Christian in this topic has done anything more than they are supposed to do.[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by Japan_86 [/i] [B]I am sorry that you feel that way craig8429. I am not trying to force anything on anyone, I was just merely expressing my views and my views are plain and simple. I believe that both Wicca and Witchcraft are bad, and that is my opinion. I am not trying to force you to believe anything. [/B][/QUOTE]
Preaching and telling people their religion is wrong can fall hand in hand.
when a person talks to another saying OMG your a wicca ect thats downing anothers religion

their are many casses when preaching is considered trying to influence people.

plus even know you say preaching is good it's still pushing others religion's down.

[Justin]

No if presented properly. See, you're putting words into my statement, instead of reading my statement.

What I said was: It's our job to present the Gospel to the nations." Gospel means 'Good News.' The Good News is that God gave His only Son up to the fires of this world so that whoever comes to believe in Him, and [i]truly[/i] believe(not simply acknowledge), may have eternal life.

When He died on the cross, Jesus went to the underworld and preached to all those who had died before His coming, that they might be saved. And then, He took the keys of death and Hell from Satan, stripping the Devil of what little power he had.

Then, He rose from the dead as the King of kings and Lord of lords. He sits now at the right hand of the Father(who He is also one with), pleading the case of the saints--interceding on our behalf. He died that we may be fearless, happy, righteous and good.

Anyone who has an ear should listen to what the Spirit of the Lord is saying, and act on it.

Now, if I degraded any other religion with the above statement, then I have to apologize, I don't see how.

But that's the Gospel. Congratulations, you've just heard the Good News.

If you're being oppressed by a Christian because you're of another faith, rest assured that the Lord will deal justly with that Christian in His time. But if you are a Christian, if you have accepted Jesus Christ as your Saviour, and you've established a personal relationship with Jesus, now if the time to stop playing around. A revival is coming to the church; a monsoon of a revival, at that. So, now is the time to rise, and make yourself prepared for the Lord's anointing--the same anointing that gave Peter the power to say "Silver and old have I none; but such as I have give I thee: In the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth rise up and walk."

Praise the Lord who is the truth. Amen.

-Justin

[Genkai]

About the wicca/witchcraft thing.. Isn't this what the topic was called? Wicca and Witchcraft?

And it's true, I, as a christian, want as many people as possible to live a life loving and learning from Christ. I'm trying to teach the gospel to as many people as I can so that they may lead a happier life. I'm not trying to FORCE you to believe, but I am trying to help people to believe.

Anyway, wiccans often feel this way to, that they are preaching the right thing or something, but they also do this degrading thing. Like they're better than you, and doin't want to socialize with you becase you're not wiccan. Anyone else noticed this? *glances at comic*

[craig8429]

[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by Justin [/i]
[B]No if presented properly. See, you're putting words into my statement, instead of reading my statement.

What I said was: It's our job to present the Gospel to the nations." Gospel means 'Good News.' The Good News is that God gave His only Son up to the fires of this world so that whoever comes to believe in Him, and [i]truly[/i] believe(not simply acknowledge), may have eternal life.

When He died on the cross, Jesus went to the underworld and preached to all those who had died before His coming, that they might be saved. And then, He took the keys of death and Hell from Satan, stripping the Devil of what little power he had.

Then, He rose from the dead as the King of kings and Lord of lords. He sits now at the right hand of the Father(who He is also one with), pleading the case of the saints--interceding on our behalf. He died that we may be fearless, happy, righteous and good.

Anyone who has an ear should listen to what the Spirit of the Lord is saying, and act on it.

Now, if I degraded any other religion with the above statement, then I have to apologize, I don't see how.

But that's the Gospel. Congratulations, you've just heard the Good News.

If you're being oppressed by a Christian because you're of another faith, rest assured that the Lord will deal justly with that Christian in His time. But if you are a Christian, if you have accepted Jesus Christ as your Saviour, and you've established a personal relationship with Jesus, now if the time to stop playing around. A revival is coming to the church; a monsoon of a revival, at that. So, now is the time to rise, and make yourself prepared for the Lord's anointing--the same anointing that gave Peter the power to say "Silver and old have I none; but such as I have give I thee: In the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth rise up and walk."

Praise the Lord who is the truth. Amen.

-Justin [/B][/QUOTE]


Dear dear justin, I'm a christian myself, but the problem is their is no reason to spread the gospel. people don't need to hear a story, of jesus, jesus's main idea was to show people willing to learn.

if you take a person who isn't trying to learn it's forcing them to do something they don't want.

I mean really it's her choice of what her religion is and Idoubt she wants to hear why she should be a of a diffrent religion.

I mean when she made this topic she was asking a opinon on do you think it's good or bad.

I understand your thought of saying yes it is bad. but their is really know reason to start telling her stories of jesus.

I mean she didn't directly start telling people " I am a wiccan and I have the right idea's! so listen to my gods"

Genkai- the topic is named that. when you tell people something they don't want to hear thats forcing them.

[QUOTE]doin't want to socialize with you becase you're not wiccan[/QUOTE]
who ever said that to you must be really stuck up.
But telling people what you think is right is not right,
if a person is willing to hear it sure tell but you should ask them " do you want to know a little about my religion" not a story of why they are wrong.

[Justin]

Dear, dear craig...then why did Jesus say in Matthew 28:19 & 20 "Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit:

Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the ending of the world." ?

If you think there's no need to preach the Gospel, you're ignorant. If you think Jesus only tried to teach those who would listen, you're more ignorant. Jesus was killed because he preached to everyone, not just those who sought Him out.

Did the people Peter preached to on the Day of Pentecost in Acts 2 want to hear his message? Absolutely not! They thought he and the rest of the apostles were drunk--indeed, they were...drunk on the Holy Spirit. And what happened? Three thousand, I think, were added to their number that day.

If we're only supposed to preach to those who want to hear, then why did Paul go into places where no one had ever heard of Jesus, proclaiming His name to the Gentiles without fear?

Please, tell me now why it is we shouldn't preach the Gospel. Educate, oh, great prophet, on why you're more right that God. You have caught an abnormal amount of my interest now, my friend. Please, educate me.

-Justin

[Xaru Silverfire]

[color=blue][font=times][b]"You know... On my way here, I saw a dog," ::gulps his wine:: "No... A beast! And it had a head," ::Takes another gulp:: "No! three heads! And it was the size of the biggest building! No... Bigger!"

Witchcraft.....

........

...........

Uh.. I can't say I believe in it. But I can't say I don't. I mean... early "witchs" did things like.... hell, have an animal.

I havn't seen any factual information about witchcraft.... so.... i'm a little on the bad side. >.>

~Xaru[/color][/font][/b]

[Megumi]

[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by Stick Fairy [/i]
[B][color=indigo]
I almost hate to say it, but saying the "Christian God" implies that there are more than one, and that you believe that there are more than one. Sorry.
[/color] [/B][/QUOTE]

If I said, "Allah is the god of Islam," is that any more incriminating? Yes, I believe there are more than one god, God himself commanded us not to worship any other gods, meaning that there are others. It doesn't mean that they're real, or have any power. Things can exist simply in the minds of people.

Sorry Drix, I was being kind of a jerk... but I do get tired of people who call themselves Christians, but have want nothing to do with God or the Bible. Sorry if I kinda falsely put you in that category.

[Brasil]

[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by Justin [/i]
[B]Dear, dear craig...then why did Jesus say in Matthew 28:19 & 20 "Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit:

Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the ending of the world." ?

If you think there's no need to preach the Gospel, you're ignorant. If you think Jesus only tried to teach those who would listen, you're more ignorant. Jesus was killed because he preached to everyone, not just those who sought Him out.

Did the people Peter preached to on the Day of Pentecost in Acts 2 want to hear his message? Absolutely not! They thought he and the rest of the apostles were drunk--indeed, they were...drunk on the Holy Spirit. And what happened? Three thousand, I think, were added to their number that day.

If we're only supposed to preach to those who want to hear, then why did Paul go into places where no one had ever heard of Jesus, proclaiming His name to the Gentiles without fear?

Please, tell me now why it is we shouldn't preach the Gospel. Educate, oh, great prophet, on why you're more right that God. You have caught an abnormal amount of my interest now, my friend. Please, educate me.

-Justin [/B][/QUOTE]

Perhaps, because Jesus was a politician? And the Bible was essentially political propaganda? :smirk:

-PoisonTongue

[craig8429]

It?s rather obvious why he said that. In the time of Jesus what was around?

Almost every civilization believed in polytheism.
He was saying teach people who don't know about it.

And I bet the people who are Wiccan already know about Christianity.
quote:


If you think there's no need to preach the Gospel, you're ignorant. If you think Jesus only tried to teach those who would listen, you're more ignorant. Jesus was killed because he preached to everyone, not just those who sought Him out.



In your comment your forcing me to believe what happened to Jesus. If I was Jewish Jesus hadn't came so that means your trying to force me to make a belief of something that hasn't happened.
quote:


Did the people Peter preached to on the Day of Pentecost in Acts 2 want to hear his message? Absolutely not! They thought he and the rest of the apostles were drunk--indeed, they were...drunk on the Holy Spirit. And what happened? Three thousand, I think, were added to their number that day.


And I add do you know what religion these people he was preaching too?
that?s the difference religion wasn't big then. nowadays everyone knows a basic idea of Christianity due to simple TV.

quote:


If we're only supposed to preach to those who want to hear, then why did Paul go into places where no one had ever heard of Jesus, proclaiming His name to the Gentiles without fear?


Do me a favor look what the religion of the Gentiles was. Then we will discuss more on that.

Educating you is easy on the terms your putting, you have to look outside the bible.

Trace back civilization where did your religion come from? Do you know?

I am not trying to offend you in anyways I know we have different beliefs, but I think your not looking outside of the bible for this.

Also you have stemmed a interest in me as well. I assume we can discuss this on other occasions at that :-). So I guess your my debated person.

[Gohan Egret]

[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by Megumi[/i]
Yes, I believe there are more than one god, God himself commanded us not to worship any other gods, meaning that there are others.[/QUOTE]

I thought it was not to worship false idols? And even if it definitively stated "other gods", that does not mean other gods existed, rather, people's worship in these false idols/gods (idolatry) is strictly and bluntly against God's will.

[QUOTE]I'm a christian myself, but the problem is their is no reason to spread the gospel. people don't need to hear a story, of jesus, jesus's main idea was to show people willing to learn.[/QUOTE]

If I recall correctly to high school religion classes, Jesus' main message was a couple of things, really - Love and compassion. Love thy enemy. Love your parents. Love everyone as a member of your family. Help others as if they were one of your family. Help others through thick and thin. Open your heart to the most needful on the planet. You know, those sort of things.

Oh, and if there were no need to spread the Gospel, why was it explicitly written out to do so (as Justin pointed out)? The Apostles risked their lives time and time again to spread the Word. Why? Guidance. Compassion. Love. From a Christian standpoint, God is the beginning and the end. The Apostles were (and still are, through their words) preparing the world for the day of Jesus' return, so that we may be ready to face Judgment and become one with the Lord for eternity, or forever be damned to Hell.

Of course, this is assuming you believe in that theology. If not, then so be it. I am not here to condone nor condemn you. And neither should anyone else here or, for that matter, anywhere. You will not find me force feeding individuals scripture.

...Let he who is without sin cast the first stone...

[craig8429]

I guess you missed my message a second ago?

jesus lived in a whole diffrent time, his message of spreading the news was ment for people who haven't even heard of it.

I bet atleast 99.9% of America has heard of it.

The point is your all telling people what they don't want to hear.

[Guest Skyechild91]

[QUOTE]
You'll know better than I. Where's heaven? Where's Diana and Luna? Where's all the Wiccan Craft? Nope.. no miriacles on TV, no [I]real[/I] spells. You know as well as I do that believing isn't necessarily seeing; don't try to pin me with a remark that bites both ways.. that just makes you look ...wrong. *shrug*
I didn't say anything that you pin on me... your wiccan pal, Guardian Star did. [/B][/QUOTE]
Sorry Drix. Luna meens moon on spanish. Diana is the greek goddess of teh moon and the hunt. And as for reall spells, we do control teh weather. Atleast, I know I do. Thats how I earned one if my witch names, Stormwind. I can do stuff with teh wind and stop it raining. THough it does take time, and lots of paitence. And i dont despise any christians, for the one who said that all wiccans hate christians. And a majority of the wiccans are nice. All the ones I know are. I am, my mom is, my bro is(okay, in magic related), my bffl, her mom(her mom worships Maat.) Not all of us are so called Satanists.

[Baron Samedi]

I can stop the rain as well! I just sit there and after a while it stops raining! I am a magic worker!

:ahem: sorry....

[Justin]

Haha, I knew you'd go that way...:)

You're mistaken about the amount of Americans who have heard the Gospel, bud. Yes, every one and his brother have heard the words [i]God, Jesus, church, Christian, Bible[/i], but no where [i]near[/i] your estimate have actually heard the Gospel itself.

They say that 79% of Americans are Christians-I say, that's false. 79% of America may [i]claim[/i] Christianity, it's many's initial reaction when questioned about their religion. That, however, does not make them a follow of Christ. To acknowledge and to believe are two different things.

I can think of [i]many[/i] people(no exaggeration, I'm being quite serius this tme), who've never heard the Gospel, and/or have a distorted perception of God/Jesus/Christianity. Nothing in the manner of what people should do as Christians has changed in the last 2,000 years at all.

Now, I can understand whee you're coming from--it's precisely what I thought(and what, I imagine, you'll continue to think until you open your heart to what God thinks) until I was shown how many people in this country DO NOT understand Christianity. America itself is one of the largest mission fields in the world, but no one realizes it.

The Gospel is not dead, no more than Jesus Himself is. The commandments He set down for us do not change with the times.

I have another example: Jeremiah the Old Testament prophet.

[i]Everyone[/i] in Isreal knew about the Lord their God. Everyone knew the law and the covenant. But Isreal had so deteriorated that it became what it was in Jeremiah and Lamentations. Yet God sent Jeremiah forth anyway, telling him as a child that he would preach to his backward nations. Telling him that he would preach, he would weep, and the people would not hear him. [b]But God sent him forth anyway.[/b] Even though, all the people knew about Him already, God sent Jeremiah on a futile quest to remind them. Why? I don't know. Most likely because God never sends judgement without a warning. Either way, it was God's purpose, and He is bigger than me.

As I said, if you think the Gospel doesn't need to be taught today in America, you don't know America as well a you think.

If you think I'm trying to change your opinion--you'd be right. But if you think I'm trying to force you into changing, go to North Korea, where they'll kill you for spreading the Gospel.

-Justin

[James]

[color=#707875]I think it's reasonable to ask that the thread be kicked back onto its original subject.

GuardianStorm asked what people's opinion of Wicca and magic is. And specifically, that's what the subject of the thread relates to. If you want to talk about the fact that you don't agree with Wicca (maybe as a comparison to your own religion), that's okay. But please...let's keep things on topic here.[/color]

[Guest Skyechild91]

Thanx, James. Really ppl.

[COLOR=indigo]This could've easily been a PM. I think what James said went without need for agreement, it was fairly self-explanitory. -Drix[/COLOR]

[DragonArcher]

It has alway interested me but if I told anyone that they would freak out because my family is christian.It really does depend on who the person is and for what reason they do it.I wish I could study it a little but like I said,I can't.Instead I kinda look into dreams and and a little astrology,its really interseting.