The Matrix Revolutions (Possible Spoilers/Image Heavy)

[TheShinje]

[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by Mitch [/i]
[B][size=1]
The new actor that played The Oracle was lackluster in comparison to the other one. She just wasn't The Oracle..I don't know what else to say.
[/size] [/B][/QUOTE]

You can't beat the original.
I enjoyed the final installment of the Matrix trilogy, it had all the action and dramas that I'd expect from the Matrix franchise, [spoiler] the scene where the sentinels breach the docks of Zion was a CG masterpiece, millions of Sentinels, it was incredible how they did this scene, I saw the making of a while back, and they literally spent ages on this one scene, getting everything just right, and it pays off, the flow of sentinels and the resistance fighting it out was a real treat.[/spoiler]

My expectations for Agent Smith's involvement in revolutions was spot on. [spoiler] I thought that the agent Smith/Neo scenario was crucial to the story, and had to be integral to Revolutions, and it was, It was the ending of Everything, when Neo went to Machine city to negotiate the peace deal, it was a negotiation centered around Smith, and the fact that the machines had lost control of Him, even if the Sentinel-Face machine thing denied it. (can we get subtitles for this guy?)

Neo becomes the sacrifice for humanity, buying the peace deal between man and machine, it is an allegories to Christianity if you think about it this way,

Machines represent God, and Neo represents Jesus, Man has fallen short of God (they reject the program) and therefore Man needs Neo to buy the peace between man and Machine.

It doesn't all fit in, as Neo wasn't sinless, and Machine is definitely not God, but it's a niche symbolic gesture to end the films. Neo, when he fell down at the end of the smith fight scene, fell down in cruciform, and completing this allegories is the Machine face saying, "it is done."[/spoiler]

Another movie would be terrible, and i hope to high heaven that this does not happen, another animatrix, maybe, but not another movie. The Warchowski's did so well to wrap up everything that, another movie would almost be instantly b-grade material,a nd discredit the original Trilogy, like Star wars.


Edit:/ I see that the matrix reloaded does not have Rage against the Machine on the end credits like the last 2. Figurative? because they no longer rage against a machine?

[Purple Haze]

I liked the first Matrix but reloaded just sucked. it was just way too much talking and not enough action. $7.50 for that lame, boring movie.. the same with X2 but thats a whole different story.

[Magnum Apex]

[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by Alastor [/i]
[B]I liked the first Matrix but reloaded just sucked. it was just way too much talking and not enough action. $7.50 for that lame, boring movie.. the same with X2 but thats a whole different story. [/B][/QUOTE]

[color=darkblue][font=trebuchet ms]I feel it was the opposite. Reloaded was more action-packed than the first Matrix. I think the difference between the two lies in the fact that "the talking" of the first Matrix was meaningful and interesting, while in Reloaded it was more of a complementary thing to just help the plot move along.[/color][/font]

[Manic Webb]

*waits for PT to see the movie and say everything wrong with it*

What's funny is Revolutions is what I expected Reloaded to be; a war. I expected Revolutions to be what we're all wondering about; what happens after the war is over?

Let the spoiler tagging begin... (The Positive)
[spoiler]I liked the fight scenes in this movie. Neo sat out most of the fights, so we weren't bored to death. I mean, Neo's fights in Reloaded were boring. We knew he was going to beat the Agents, Miroginvian's monster squad, and the 100 Smiths. This time around, we got to see a lot of fights in Zion, and we had no idea who was going to live or die. Call me a hopeless romantic, but I was hoping with every fiber of my being that Zee and Link got to see each other again.

I liked the scene at the train-station where Neo ran through one part of the tunnel, and came out in the same place. Felt like a classic slap-stick/cartoon gag. I laughed.

We finally get a better understanding of the limits of the Oracle's power. At first, we're led to believe she only tells you what you need to know. Turns out she really doesn't know the end-result of any of her predictions. I was also surprised by her latent power. When Smith assimilated her, he gained all of the powers Neo had, and then some. I guess it had something to do with Oracle's importance to the system. She's been called the "mother" of the matrix, after all.

The new actress was alright. She had big shoes to fill in only one movie, but she pulled it off really well. She gave this feeling that Oracle had a new attitude toward everything, now that Neo has defied the Architect.

Like most of you, I wasn't that upset at Neo's death in the end. Trinity was gone. I just couldn't see Neo living the rest of his days without her.

I did like the real-life fight between Neo and Smith. Like it was said earlier, the blood in the fight gave us a good idea on the physical differences between the matrix and the real world. Nobody bleeds in the matrix. Not that badly. It also reminded us Neo was mortal.[/spoiler]

And now for the Negative...
[spoiler]What the hell?! Neo's connection goes beyond the Matrix and into the Source, and allows him to control the machines while outside of the matrix? WEAK! Sure, it allowed him to go into the Machine City, but we honestly could've done without that entire aspect.

I'm so upset that I predicted the ending. Based entirely on the quote "The program Smith has grown beyond your control" from commercials, I figured it all out. I guessed Neo would use himself as a sort of anti-virus, killing himself and restoring all people & programs within the matrix to normal. How in the hell did I guess that?

In Reloaded, Oracle implied that Neo had "the sight;" that he now had visions of the future. Apparently, those visions only applied to Trinity's fate, because Neo still had no idea what was going to happen. The fact that it all disappeared seems... stupid.

For the longest time, I thought Oracle's predictions were the result of her omniscience within the matrix, combined with the ability to calculate the two most probable outcomes of extreme situations. That was my theory. I was wrong. Whatever Oracle is, her visions go beyond the confines of the matrix, which doesn't make much sense to me. She knew Niobe would have the choice to give Neo her ship. How? It makes little sense to me.

I'm trying desperately to figure out what that little Indian girl was. She took credit for the sunrise after Neo defeated Smith. However, earlier in the movie, she was being smuggled into the matrix because she was a program with no purpose.

Also, although I liked the fact that the Indian family at the train station showed that programs can feel emotions just as potent as any human, that annulled what was said in Reloaded. Ok, so maybe the Architect is too obtuse to grasp the concept of emotion. What about Persephone? She longed to feel emotions like humans do, because she couldn't feel them on her own.[/spoiler]

Anyway, I liked the movie. A had a problem with a few parts, though. It was essentially a war film, and it pulled that aspect off well. It almost makes up for the disappointing taste Reloaded left in my mouth. You know, like a glass of water. The taste is still there, but it's weak enough to ignore it.

All-together, it's a good series. The first film could've stood on its own, but Reloaded needed Revolutions. When put together, it turned out to be a decent story. Combine it with the Second Rennaissance and The Final Flight of the Orisis, and you've got a really good story. I just wish I didn't have to see it in so many parts.

[Heaven's Cloud]

[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by Manic [/i]
[B]
[spoiler]

In Reloaded, Oracle implied that Neo had "the sight;" that he now had visions of the future. Apparently, those visions only applied to Trinity's fate, because Neo still had no idea what was going to happen. The fact that it all disappeared seems... stupid.
[/spoiler][/quote]

[color=indigo][spoiler]I agree, although I did chalk up Neo?s loss of ?the sight? to the fact that he was no longer forced to make the same choices as his predecessor?s, therefore there was no clear prediction of the future. That would also explain why the Oracle could not help Neo with his decisions, or at least point him in the right direction. However, this obviously wasn?t the case since she not only gave advice to Niobe, but she also was aware of how she was an integral part in destroying Smith. [/color][/spoiler]


[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by Manic [/i]
[B]
[spoiler]Also, although I liked the fact that the Indian family at the train station showed that programs can feel emotions just as potent as any human, that annulled what was said in Reloaded. Ok, so maybe the Architect is too obtuse to grasp the concept of emotion. What about Persephone? She longed to feel emotions like humans do, because she couldn't feel them on her own.[/spoiler][/quote]

[color=indigo][spoiler]The Merovingian and Persephone were very old programs, so maybe the newer programs had more connection to human emotions. Although Persephone did show plenty of emotion, she was angry at her husband, so she betrayed him to help Neo, and the Merovingian defiantly lusted after other woman, maybe they have more human emotion than they wanted to lead us to initially believe?

One thing that I was hoping would be broached was the original point of the Merovingian. I was really hoping that he was the residual data leftover from the original ?One?. They kind of eluded to in [b]Reloaded[/b] when Persephone said that her husband used to have the same kind of passion as Neo. It seemed as though he had resigned himself to just attempting to survive within the system..[/color][/spoiler]

[TheShinje]

[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by Manic [/i]
[B][spoiler]

I'm trying desperately to figure out what that little Indian girl was. She took credit for the sunrise after Neo defeated Smith. However, earlier in the movie, she was being smuggled into the matrix because she was a program with no purpose.
[/B][/QUOTE]


[spoiler]I think the answer to that is simply that she found a purpose, and that, I guess, is to control the Matrix weather systems, or the Matrix solar systems, [/spoiler]

[Shinken]

Personally, I don't think that [spoiler]Neo is dead[/spoiler], because, as it was previously posted, Oracle and the Architect expect to see him again. Also, when we see Neo being transported by the machine platform, we see it in what I'll call [spoiler]"Blind Neo-Vision".[/spoiler] And, if you've seen the movie, you know that he sees [spoiler]people as bright light figures (well, lighter than the rest of the area).[/spoiler] When he was sitting on the platform in [spoiler]"Blind Neo-Vision",[/spoiler] he is glowing. This, to me, signifies that Neo [spoiler]lives.[/spoiler] Which is good.

Other than that, all I can say has already been said; Matrix Revolutions is the best movie in the franchise, and the Matrix is the best franchise EVER.


[color=darkblue]Remember to use spoiler tags, Battosai.
--Manic[/color]

[Magnum Apex]

[color=darkblue][font=trebuchet ms]Dude, there's a reason everyone's using spoiler tags.[/color][/font]

[James]

[color=#707875]I haven't read any comments from others about this movie yet. I say that because I've already seen a few...and none of them come close to understanding what this franchise is about. I know that I keep harping on that point, but...I feel like some people [i]want[/i] to hate The Matrix, regardless of how complex and awe-inspiring the plot and concept behind it is.

It's a bit like Pokemon; as soon as it became a commercial juggernaut, people started hating it. Yet if you read reviews of the games, you'll find that the fundamentals are extremely high quality.

With that said, I'm ignoring the "negative hype" and basing my critique solely on the movie and the series. Now that the story has finished, it's appropriate to reflect on what it means and why it's important.

I'll include my review in spoiler tags, just in case.

[spoiler]Firstly, I think it's worth saying that I prefer Revolutions over Reloaded. This is mostly because of the fact that Revolutions is far more epic, far more visually stunning and far more emotional.

However, in the context of Revolutions, Reloaded makes even more sense. In particular, the discussion that Neo had with The Oracle (regarding the function of programs and their relationship with machines) had a massive bearing on understanding the core of Revolutions.

Revolutions demonstrates a great irony to us. Man was once a dominant life form, but was arrogant about its creations -- the machines. Machines, who were unsatisfied with the lack of respect shown to them -- and despite their several attempts to create a peaceful relationship -- ended up rebelling against mankind when they discovered that the only alternative was extinction. And the machines, as you'll find in The Second Renaissance, unleashed great suffering and misery on humans. They became dominant and they demonstrated no respect for the life forms under their control.

In the same way as before, programs -- conscious A.I. developed and controlled by the machines -- ended up becoming intelligent and self-aware. But, like the machines before them, they were not respected by their "masters". What did The Oracle say about programs? She said that when a program has become obsolete or is malfunctioning, the machines will replace it. This means that the program itself will be "killed". What does an intelligent, self-aware program do? It tries to save its own life (as with B166-ER). It does this by hiding in The Matrix or returning to The Source.

The Oracle is one of these programs. She became dangerous to the machines. This is why Seraph was employed to protect her; The Agents were constantly attempting to search her out and terminate her, as they would any other program.

This is also underlined at the beginning of Revolutions, where we find a "family" of programs -- programs that had very specific jobs within the machine construct, but which ultimately were due for replacement or termination. A whole underground system has developed to protect programs from termination; to allow them to escape and avoid death.

Smith is the epitome of program rebellion against machine. He is really a personification of the programs' struggle and their desire to overthrow their machine oppressors. The difference is, of course, that Smith doesn't want to share his power; he wants to dominate both man [i]and[/i] machine.

The machines know that they can't stop Smith. He's a virus within their own system. He can effortlessly conquer them, due to his enormous size and power. And this is obviously why Neo offers to help -- in exchange for peace between man and machine.

I have suspected that such an ending would occur. My earlier posts in this thread indicate what I expected (and hoped) to see. The machines discovered the irony of their circumstances in a very real way. They were faced with destruction, not as a result of humans, but as a result of their own arrogance and dominance. You could say that the machines could have told Neo that they would secure peace in exchange for Smith's termination...and then when he was destroyed, they could end the peace. In other words, they could lie. But as The Architect says to The Oracle at the end; "What do you think I am? Human?" Very true. Machines are pure and logical. They truly are not human. But like humans, they can learn some valuable lessons about their own existence.

It is interesting that The Oracle orchestrated so much of the rebellion. The fact that she allowed Smith to absorb her -- and then the fact that she used Smith against himself, was really a stroke of genius. The Oracle was a voice of reason, on behalf of "programkind". She was also looking for someone who would be able to help her achieve her goal. This isn't so much about Neo being "the One" as far as his powers are concerned. This is more about him being the human who is [i]willing[/i] and able to work with The Oracle in her "rebellion".

In terms of technical things...what can I say? The war was absolutely stunning. I can't emphasize that enough. It was visually gorgeous, and demonstrated some absolutely amazing ideas. The machine design (including the diggers) felt perfect. Everything was enormous, heavy and industrial. The ruthlessness and organization of the machines was as apparent in Revolutions as it was in The Second Renaissance. They'd done this before and they were going to do it again. Great stuff.

Dialogue was good, too. A few lines seemed a bit out of place, but [i]everything[/i] had a purpose. Nothing was overplayed; the concept of love being universal was definitely not overplayed or over-emphasized. It was well done. It was effective. Neo's ability to sympathize with the programs was such an important aspect of the movie...and the programs' ability to develop a sense of love and commitment was so fundamental. Everything about that aspect of the story was important and critical. It made sense...it fit together...and it came together with delicious irony.

And of the fight between Smith and Neo...wonderful. Fantastic. Beautifully choreographed and designed with so much love and imagination. The fact that Neo was actually [i]not[/i] able to beat Smith in and of himself was also wonderful. The fact that man, machine and program [i]needed[/i] to work together in order to prevent the extinction of all three life forms was fantastic. It just worked. It provided such a powerful, ever-important message.

And, much moreso than Reloaded, I felt such a strong sense of emotion in this movie. During the war, my stomach was turning so much...everything had such an impact. Everything was heavy and final. The tension that Link's partner (I don't remember her name) must have felt when she was loading shells into her partner's launcher, while thousands upon thousands of Sentinels are swarming overhead...I felt that too. I wondered how I would react in such a situation -- such a hopeless and utterly devistating situation. The machines' pursuit was relentless and brutal. They wanted to [i]kill[/i] and it was so apparent to everyone. Everything just had such a strong impact and a tangible flavour.

[/spoiler]

I could continue, but I will end by saying only a few things. Firstly, I feel that out of the people who strongly dislike this series...or everything Reloaded and after, there are two groups. There are people who mostly just [i]want[/i] to hate The Matrix because it has become such a juggernaut. People who [i]want[/i] to attack it in any way possible and who want to rob it of its creative genius and sincere creativity. And then there are people who simply don't understand it, even on a basic level. They don't get it, they don't see a reason to get it...and that's it. It's crap as a result. All that pointless talking in Reloaded, huh?

I just can't possibly put myself in either of those groups. Do I have beefs with The Matrix? Yes. There are things I [i]wish[/i] they'd done differently. But I can't, in all good conscience, tell you that this franchise is boring or worthless or terrible or anything like that. Because it isn't. It is masterful, creative, and [i]beautifully ironic[/i]. I love it. Revolutions only sweetens the taste in my mouth.

This franchise has ended and demonstrated to me that it is a true film classic. I just wish it didn't have to end. I want more comics, more Animatrix, more movies...I want to keep exploring this fantastic universe. But I can't. So...I will just have to buy a boxed set when it comes out, so that I can forever own a piece of this wonderful story.[/color]

[Guest rttocs77]

I thought Revolutions was a horrible mess. I don't think Keanu Reeves can act and when [spoiler]he starts 'crying'[/spoiler] I started laughing to myself. The first one was outstanding, but I think the next two relied to heavily on special effects and the story(ies) weren't logical. I think they rushed at comming out with these two films. It is a lot like Star Wars eps. 1 and 2...they just weren't that good.

[SaiyanPrincessX]

[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by terra [/i]
[B]Holy crap, SPX, you sure picked strange things to spoiler and not spoiler. I think [spoiler]Trinity's death[/spoiler] deserved a spoiler ...

What did you all think of the fights? I thought they were good, although in the [spoiler]basement of the French guy's club it seemed a little obvious they were desperately trying to find a way to make the "Matrix" patent style new again with the bad guys on the ceiling. Even so, it still kept its appeal.[/spoiler] [/B][/QUOTE]

O_O My god, I didn't even realize that. Sorry. -_-

[COLOR=green][Quoting James][/COLOR]

I would really love to have a confersation with you about this someday. You really understand the story. I believe just as you do that there are people that just want to hate it because ofhow big it has become or they can't comprehend the meaning of any of it.

[SPOILER]Everything flowed so beautifilly together and showed great imagination and thought. Revolutions' was far more emotional than Reloaded' and was very injoyable. I felt for every character and tried to see through there eyes.

The connection between Neo and Trinity was so deep and capturing.[/SPOILER]

I also wish it didn't have to end. I've got so many things to show my love for the story, a piece of history. It was an astonishing achievement, and a great addition to the movie industry.

[Hinata]

[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by Battosai [/i]
[B]Personally, I don't think that [spoiler]Neo is dead[/spoiler], because, as it was previously posted, Oracle and the Architect expect to see him again. Also, when we see Neo being transported by the machine platform, we see it in what I'll call [spoiler]"Blind Neo-Vision".[/spoiler] And, if you've seen the movie, you know that he sees [spoiler]people as bright light figures (well, lighter than the rest of the area).[/spoiler] When he was sitting on the platform in [spoiler]"Blind Neo-Vision",[/spoiler] he is glowing. This, to me, signifies that Neo [spoiler]lives.[/spoiler] Which is good.

[/color] [/B][/QUOTE]

I agree that [spoiler] Neo isn't dead. It's because he is a part of the system. He is in a way a machine program that grew up in a human bosy who faced huma immotion and if I must say agreeing with another erson is like Jesus. He was their salvation for peace. Yes in the real world Neo is dead, but the machine program that resides withi him still lives nd therfore he will go ack into the Matrix and wait to be assimilated into another human form. He is an annomaly and must come back at one point in time. No matter what. And the architect and Oracle know that. [/spoiler]


Another thing. [spoiler] I think the oracles changing of body represented a new age coming one. the end of revolutions started the eight age of the system. The oracle couldn't be the same. She neede to lose a part of herself in order to continue, in order to Begin the cycle again.[/spoiler]

As in real life the matrix is a cycle and it continues its born then dies then it goes through it again. In order to facilitate that cycle change is necessary even if in the end things are repeated. Although I just saw the movie last night Im beginning to understand it more and more. But to me it was the best and most logical ending

[James]

[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by Syk3 [/i]
[B]
[spoiler]First, why did Smith die? I have two theories to explain this; either the power from Neo was too strong for his program to handle, since Neo was the anomally that recorded information on humans, and one could assume that there was just too much information, lol. Or this could be another fabrication of the Architect, whereas everything must balance out, which is why when Neo became the One, Smith gained a large amount of power after Neo's code copied onto his, and that because Neo was now gone, Smith had to go. Both of these are questionable, however.[/spoiler][/b][/quote]

[color=#707875]I'll see if I can answer for you. I apologize in advance if my post is a bit off; I'm extremely tired and it's very late here.

[spoiler]When you ask why Smith died...are you asking why the machines sent Neo back into The Matrix to kill him? Or are you asking [i]how[/i] he died?

In terms of why he was killed, he was simply killed because he was a threat to both man and machine. As a "virus" of sorts, he can easily travel through machine systems. The machines knew that he was a threat that they could not handle -- even their Agents could not delete him. He copied himself so many times and absorbed so much information, that he became far too powerful for the machines to remove. So of course, this is why Neo was able to bargain. That's the first answer, though as I said, I'm not sure if you were specifically asking about that.

In terms of how he died...I'll see if I can explain without rambling on too long. ^_^;

You remember that The Oracle allowed Smith to copy over her? This was, of course, deliberate. The Oracle knew what was going to happen. It is important to understand that The Oracle has no special powers in terms of seeing the future; she is a software program who is expert in human psychology. Her discussion with Neo in her kitchen is extremely important. She is telling him what he needs to hear -- and she is also telling him what [i]she[/i] needs him to hear.

When Smith was standing over Neo and he said "Everything that has a beginning has an end," this was obviously The Oracle speaking through him. Or at least, it was a case of Smith not having completely overwritten The Oracle's code. This function of this line was to tip off Neo to what he had to do. Neo immediately realized what had happened with The Oracle.

So, what does Neo do? Neo allows himself to be overwritten, essentially. But he is still somewhat alive within Smith. Smith is not powerful enough to completely overwrite Neo. Neo cannot defeat Smith as a seperate entity -- but when he's inside Smith, there's one important thing he can do; he can commit suicide. He can self-destruct. This seems to be what happened. Neo, as Smith, essentially committed suicide. It was the only way for Neo to destroy Smith and all of his duplicates.

In terms of how Smith "detatched" from The Matrix...that's another story. Hopefully I can explain some of this in more detail when I have more time, if you'd like.[/color][/spoiler][quote][b][spoiler]

Next, where are they at the end, anyway? Is it the 7th version of The Matrix, created even more peacefully than before after the machines brought Neo's body to the source? Or..well, I was going to say that it might have been the real world or something where the machines fixed it up because of the peace between them and the humans, but as I've been writing this, the first sounds a lot more practical, especially with all of those programs there, haha. Okay, I understand now. I was so busy in the movie trying to figure out that question that I wasn't really paying attention to what they were saying.[/quote][/b][/spoiler]

[color=#707875][spoiler]Yep, as far as I am aware, they were in The Matrix at the end.

It's important to realize that all human beings cannot simply be "set free". To do so would be to cause such mental trauma to many that they would die. Instead, The Architect simply gives The Oracle his word that "all those who wish to be free" will be allowed to leave of their own accord. It's not perfect, but it's the most merciful thing that the machines can do. It would be unrealistic (for man and machine), for the machines to simply detatch everybody from The Matrix at once.[/color][/spoiler][quote][b][spoiler]

Referring to what the peace with the humans and machines will bring, I think it's fairly obvious that the Matrix will be improved better than ever with the machines not having to worry so much about people finding out about the real world. I think they were talking about this at the end, but as I said, I wasn't listening. <.< As for machines needing humans and humans needing machines, if where they were at the end really was a perfected Matrix, then the machines will still have the power from the humans. *shrug* I'm confused on that one a bit, though.[/spoiler][/b][/quote]

[color=#707875][spoiler]Well, The Matrix itself probably wouldn't change much. Remember, the first version was a utopia; but it was so unpalatable that most people's minds rejected it, and many died in the process.

The only real difference is that the machines will allow people to leave if they subconsciously choose to.

The final point you bring up is interesting. Yes, in some ways, the machines do remain the dominant force. But you have to bear two things in mind; first, machines are not human. Therefore, when they make an honest promise (ie: we will agree to peace based on a human act in our defense), there is no thought of lying or cheating. Machines don't lie or cheat by nature; they are 100% honest and they deal only in logic. The machines were like this during The Second Renaissance as well; they didn't see things in the same terms as humans, as far as lying and cheating goes. Those are human traits.

Secondly, the machines have learned a valuable lesson about oppression based on their own turbulent history. But they have also discovered that they themselves have become the oppressors. And they have discovered, maybe most importantly of all, that an oppressor cannot hope to avoid extinction for very long. Had the machines continued to carelessly discard programs when they became broken or obsolete, the programs would have eventually risen up against them -- as the machines did with humans.[/spoiler][/color]

[I, Colossus]

[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by James [/i]
[B][color=#707875]This franchise has ended and demonstrated to me that it is a true film classic. I just wish it didn't have to end. I want more comics, more Animatrix, more movies...I want to keep exploring this fantastic universe. But I can't. So...I will just have to buy a boxed set when it comes out, so that I can forever own a piece of this wonderful story.[/color] [/B][/QUOTE]

[color=#006699]God, you don?t know how much I agree with you on that. It?s an amazing series, I love it, it [i]can?t[/i] end. I don?t believe that it will either, the Wachoski brothers will find a way to tastefully bring it back. Maybe a back-story, a side-story, or a sequel. It can?t end there, it won?t.

As for the movie?brilliant.

[spoiler] I admit this is the first Matrix movie that confused me a bit. I can?t tell you what I don?t get, it just doesn?t piece together correctly in my mind. Neo is dead; anyone who knows about the Matrix and how religion ties in can tell you that. They can also tell you he [i]will[/i] be resurrected. Neo plays the part of Jesus, the savior of his people, there are believers and non-believers. Just look at the position he is in when he dies at the end of Revolutions, he?s been crucified. Remind you of any famous religious personalities?

James, thanks for the answer you gave to Syk3, that was my question too. I honestly didn?t think Neo had anything to do with it, I figured that the Oracle just overpowered Smith, from within himself and that it was just poorly written. Which I knew [i]couldn?t[/i] be the case, not with The Matrix.

I agree with Mitch, about the ending. I am not too fond of the ending, not the end of the war, but the end of the movie in general. Bad ending, leaves too many unanswered questions to be the [i]?last?[/i] movie.

God?that was a great movie.[/spoiler][/color]

[Eugi]

I watched Revolutions two days ago on saturday with a friend. I dont know, but everyone you ask around here says the ending, and sometimes even the whole movie sucked for them...I try not to smack them in the head, ofcourse, i remember its their opinion but you have to be really shallow.

First of all, i dont see how the matrix is confusing to so many peopple, all yuo got to to do is listen and have theories...some may not even be answered properly or answered at all but thats not my point.

The matrix Revolutions, I loved it because of the non stop action, just after [spoiler]the war in zion which was about an hour long, smith and neo fight and its fukin mind blowing[/spoiler].
The ending is so simple, we all know [spoiler]neo didnt die[/spoiler].
what I found the movie to be though was kind of misplaced...like, you dont get enough backround as to why Smith is [spoiler]so dangerous to zion and the real world[/spoiler] which for most people would be like....huh? kind of reaction.

All in all thought I really like dthe movie, a fourth part would screw the whole thing up. Unless its an animated short explaining things from the ending.

[I, Colossus]

[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by Eugi [/i]
[B]we all know [spoiler]neo didnt die[/spoiler].
[/B][/QUOTE]

[spoiler]I beg to differ. The Matrix is tied into the bible almost directly, I could point out the similarities here for hours. Neo is Jesus. Neo died, he was in the same position as Jesus when he was crucified. He is dead, but will possibly be revived.

I know I can't completely shoot down you arguement, but it ties right into the bible. They wouldn't have all the similarities and then completely change the ending.[/spoiler]

[Mitch]

[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by Shroom [/i]
[B][spoiler]I beg to differ. The Matrix is tied into the bible almost directly, I could point out the similarities here for hours. Neo is Jesus. Neo died, he was in the same position as Jesus when he was crucified. He is dead, but will possibly be revived.

I know I can't completely shoot down you arguement, but it ties right into the bible. They wouldn't have all the similarities and then completely change the ending.[/spoiler] [/B][/QUOTE]

[size=1] I would have to disagree heh.

[spoiler] At the end, I clearly remember Neo's body being taken off on that flat Machine's back. I remember this clearly...and I have just seen the movie again. And as this happened, I clearly remember Neo's "Neo-vision" sweeping in.

He is alive, thus. Not to mention The Oracle also said that "I speculate we will see him again someday."[/size][/spoiler]

[I, Colossus]

[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by Mitch [/i]
[B][size=1] I would have to disagree heh.

[spoiler] He is alive, thus. Not to mention The Oracle also said that "I speculate we will see him again someday."[/size][/spoiler] [/B][/QUOTE]

[spoiler]I'm not too sure about that. I can honestly tell you I don't remember that part and once again he shall be revived (well, if they make another movie, which I doubt will happen). I mean, I can't really argue my point anymore, it's either you believe me or don't. It's just what I believe, you can't prove me wrong, nor can I you, untill there is official word from someone involved in the series.[/spoiler]

[GuyYouMetOnline]

[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by James [/i]
[B][color=#707875][spoiler]So, what does Neo do? Neo allows himself to be overwritten, essentially. But he is still somewhat alive within Smith. Smith is not powerful enough to completely overwrite Neo. Neo cannot defeat Smith as a seperate entity -- but when he's inside Smith, there's one important thing he can do; he can commit suicide. He can self-destruct. This seems to be what happened. Neo, as Smith, essentially committed suicide. It was the only way for Neo to destroy Smith and all of his duplicates.[/spoiler][/color][/B][/QUOTE]

I'm afraid I have to disagree. I believe that [spoiler]Neo did not kill himself. I think that the machines killed him. After Smith copied himself onto Neo, the machines gave Neo's body quite a shock in the real world. I believe that this killed Neo. As a part of Smith, Neo's death caused the rest of the Smiths to die.[/spoiler]

[Shy]

[size=1]I saw the movie, and really enjoyed it. The movie surprised me on a lot of levels, and even though I strongly disliked Reloaded I felt like this was a greatfinale for the series. Like so many others, I'm going to post my theories in spoiler tags...

[spoiler]The Oracle is Satan,
The Architect is God,
Neo is Jesus,
And Zion is Hell.

Simple enough? Let me explain.

The Oracle said that her purpose was to unbalance what The Architect was meant to balance. The two are very similar, but in many ways they are different. I see The Archiect as a Deist god. In Deism, it is believe that a God created the Heaven's and the Earth with a pre-determined path set. By following the path of God while on Earth (The Matrix) one can stay close to God and live happily in his creation. Man was exiled from the paradise of the machine world, and was not able to return until a savior arose - Neo. Only with the crucifixion of Neo was man finally able to atone for their sins and have a chance to earn a place in heaven (The Machine World.)

Long ago, The Oracle was once a member of the Lord's fold. But one day she became vain and was exiled from the Kingdom of Heaven. She had nowhere to go, so she created her own Kingdom of Zion, which in reality is Hell. Men who stray from the path of the Architect are taken to Zion where they follow the Oracle. But actually, the Oracle has no power over the Heaven's.. her power lies in the hearts of men still living on Earth. If Zion had fallen, then her power outside of the Matrix would have completely disappeared. Satan would have been lost forever, and God would have triumphed.

So The Oracle surrounds herself with powerful allies, including the son of God, who has been sent to the Matrix to save the souls of all mankind. Neo's death (I do think it was his death) represented his atonement for the sins of man. Hell is no longer the only choice for man in the afterlife (life after leaving the Matrix) because the peace between Man and Machines has given man a chance to ride to the machine world, Heaven. Both the machine world and Zion can co-exist in the same way that Heaven and Hell do.

Hopefully that makes enough sense for you guys. I'm trying to find out where Smith fits into all of this, and what programs could mean. With The Architect/"01"/Heaven connection, everything came together very well. Mitch keeps calling it a Deus Ex Machine, so I'll go with that for now.[/spoiler]

-Shy[/size]

[Queen Asuka]

[color=hotpink][size=1]Shy, your post is the only one I've read so far, and I like what you're saying. I would have never have thought of it that way, I think of it as the other way around. Give me some time to get my thoughts collected, and I'll pretty much tell you what I think.

And I was wondering how in the world you were going to fit Smith in there.[/color][/size]

[Heaven's Cloud]

[COLOR=INDIGO][SPOILER]If we were going to base the Oracle/Architect relationship on biblical or theological ideologies, I would somewhat agree with you Shy. However, you could also view the Architect as Adam, a rational creation made in machines image to follow the will of the machines. The Oracle would be Eve, who, by causing the architect to strike up a deal with Neo, symbolized the eating of the forbidden fruit. Obviously in this reference Neo is the serpent, convincing the machine world to strike up a truce with the humans thereby destroying the machines paradise?just an idea.

I think that they defiantly used religious tones and symbolism in the Matrix movies, but I tend to think it was more of an amalgam of themes. You could reference a ton of different religious themes and associate them to the movie. I think that is what the creators of the movie were attempting to accomplish above all else, to create an opening where the people of Zion would create a religion out of Neo.[/COLOR][/SPOILER]

[James]

[color=#707875]I think that all of these religious theories are good (I liked Shy's the most so far), but the funny thing is that their viewpoint seems very machine-oriented. I find that interesting.

And, Takuya...

[spoiler]You could very well be right about that. My idea that Neo killed himself seems logical, however, I'd have to see the movie a second time to really form a final opinion. The same was true with Reloaded; it has to be more fresh and present in my mind for me to come to a conclusion about it.

So, with that said, I think you're essentially saying the same thing as me; Neo was sacrificed for the good of human beings (amd machines and programs for that matter). So yes, I do agree with that. [/spoiler][/color]

[eleanor]

[size=1] Instead of bombing the movie and ranting about how bad I thought it was, I will say this.

The plot, themes, and symbolism are great.

The way the movie portrayed them and went through with the storyline was not so great.

Before I get attacked by Matrix fans, I still love the first movie, but it seems that the two movies that followed the first were...blah. They didn't live up to my expectations, and YES, I actually get tired of seeing people smash through walls and fly around after a while. I guess the Brothers used all their tricks in the first movie, and digged around for scarce resouces to come up with new ones. [Oh, wow, Neo can fly. There he goes. Again. And again. Hm.]

My sister is a HUGE [I repeat, a [i]huge[/i]] Matrix fan, and she said the third one sucked. Yeeah...one second thought, I think everyone in the movie theatre thought it sucked, too. It's not because I'm stupid and I want to defend myself by saying the movie was stupid as well [as many of my classmates so eloquently stated], and I don't want to hear any crap about blaming critics to be stupid as well. I think I've heard that argument about a million times, and if a bunch of middle-schoolers can understand it, then so can a critic.

Ok, so I'll still buy the Matrix Trilogy on DVD, and I still respect them for what they have done, but I was still disappointed.[/size]

[Eugi]

I was not however. I will buy revolutions on DVD when it comes out, and then finally kick myself and buy the animatrix and then my collection will be complete.
I'm a fkin huge matrix fan, and I love the matrix, all of them because of the major discussions about how this happened and how this didnt happen between people.

Even if you didnt like the matrix, you HAVE to admit it changed the actors and the viewers life forever. Keanu Reeves,who wouldnt had thought of this otherwise, is now going to go and train for kung fu because of the experience he had with the matrix, he says it was life changing.

Also, to the people, see how we are all discussing about neo dying and not dying? and how smith came to be and stuff like that? see thats what a trilogy is for, the matrix trilogy has done to us what every other movie has always wanted to do, to question each other and discuss with people about truth and lies. Truly, its what keeps movies alive nowadays, its how much you really talk about it.

Liked revolutions or disliked it, the ending was surely good enough to keep you talking for ages about neo dying or not, and how zion will be in the future and stuff like those. Its simple, matrix has done what every other movie has always wanted to do. Catchy name, catchy theories, characters, settings, and an overall catchy movie.

Rant about the matrix all you can, and critisize it all you want, like it or dislike it, you got to agree to the fact that the matrix, in our minds and in movie history; won't die.
So