The Matrix Revolutions (Possible Spoilers/Image Heavy)

[TheShinje]

[b] Shinji's theory Expanded ^_^[/b]

I have something to address concerning the Matrix Revolutions.

I don't believe anybody can sit through it once and comorehend everything, as it is very vast and complex, I myself am still trying to figure out how Smith [spoiler] could download himself into Bain's brain, it's weird[/spoiler]

My theory on smith is that [spoiler] Smith represents fallen angels, looking at it religiously, he has rebelled against God, who by Shy's theory is the Architect, now, Agent Smith is not on side with the Oracle, I think he is moreso the personification of Satan religiously than the Oracle is, the reson is that they share some very common traits, both are greedy and want power, both want to be "like the most high" I'n Smith's case, The Architect, in satan's case, God.

The end of Revolutions hints at a system perhaps, of reincarnation, I reckon Neo is as dead as a doornail, and that he is going back to the source, to be reincarnated in the Matrix, he will return, to be the world's "messiah," Considering this idea brings to another, "what if the war wasn't over?" Man and Machine could easily slip into another situation, and, like the one over B166-ER, it could inflame man machine relations again.

Another Oracle would tell of the One, being Neo, and that she would prophecize his return again, as she did in the sunset scene this keeps everything in the Matrix universe Cyclical baaby! A huge death and rebirth cycle that becomes too far fetched to believe, however, it is one of many theories circling in my head after this movie.

It's end was amazing, the susnet was pretty, and it felt surreal. And throuought the movie, especially in the Trainman Scene with the Indian family, To hear machines, talking about love, you get to feel sympathetic to the machines, you don't actually want them to be conquered and destroyed, the brilliance of the trainman scene in exploring this idea was incredible to say the least.


Peace between man and machine was a far better ending than Neo just kicking ***. When I left the theatre, I left feeling really good and uplifted, not alot of movies can change my mood like that, the Matrix succeeds in mood changing very well ^_^ [/spoiler]


Matrix, phew, one hell of a movie series for sure!


edit:\ I accidentally made this a new thread, must have pushed new instead of reply, however, it's merged now.

[Eugi]

One hell of a movie indeed. You have to be one of the people me and my friend would agree to anyday without a second thought. Most people didnt think about these things after or while they were watching the matrix (hehe who could even think when youre watching Revolutions) which left me kind of upset.
90 percent of the people we interviewed (me and my friend) said that 1- [spoiler]Neo DID die[/spoiler]
2- the ending sucked
3- the movie had too much talk.

Now I wouldnt normally kick someone for being wrong, and I didnt at those times (there are many more examples but I cant think right now). Hopefully, in a couple of years, people'd find out that they were wrong.

[conpiracymonki]

[size=1]
OK, personally, I think [spoiler]Neo is still alive.[/spoiler]
[b]Supa-spoilerama:[spoiler]

Do you remember when the Oracle said the Architect's purpose was to 'balance the equation'? And she said her purpose was to 'unbalance' it, right?
The Architect is with the machines. Killing off the two threats to the machines, Neo and Smith, would balance out the power-equation once more.
The Oracle is a human-sympathizer. If she can destroy Smith without losing Neo, then she has successfully unbalanced the equation.

And everyone knows the Oracle is happy at the end -.-'

And then there's the fact that she suspects that Neo will return. Soon. Kinda like Jesus, right? (Did anyone notice that the machine that takes Neo away looks like an Angel in 'source mode'?)

HE LIVES0RZ!!1! o.-
At the end of the day though, I think Neo was actually just an anti-virus, lol ¬_¬[/b]

Edit:
Something my friend said though, that throws me off:
Neo died in the Matrix in the first film. Trinity's love brought him back. Trinity died in the Matrix in the second film, and Neo's love made him bring her back. In the third film, Trinity dies for real, and this time Neo can't bring her back. At the end, Neo dies for real too. I mean, who's going to bring him back now?

*r confused*[/size][/spoiler]

[IQ2]

Okay, I think a lot of people are using the Jesus/Angel metaphor too often. The word "balance" was used to describe the relationship between Neo and Agent Smith. The machine created "The Oracle" in order to be an imbalance to counter The Architect's balance. One had to exist with the other in order for the world to exist, or one must be destroyed with the other, both must exist or not exist at the same time to maintain balance.

Neo and Agent Smith were the same. They both existed throughout in all forms and in both worlds and when one ceased to exist, the other did. There are many theories on what actually happened. Maybe the machine balanced out the inexistance of Neo by canceling out Smith. Maybe Smith could not comprehend human choice. But in the end it came to the Oracle's discussion on what the architect wanted, balance. She pointed out a lot more clearly than she did in other movies... which made it disappointing.

[James]

[color=#707875]As far as I know, The Oracle was created to study human psychology. That is her purpose as a program. The machines needed to study human psychology in order to develop a more palatable Matrix.

So...I don't think the machines are concerned with balance in those terms. They are more concerned with balance in terms of dealing with everything mathematically...but not in this sense, I think.

In terms of Neo and Smith...they weren't the same. Smith was a recent development; he was an unpredictable factor for the machines. If they'd known that he was going to duplicate himself and so on, he would never have been allowed to grow so powerful. And this is why the irony is so strong; the machines are having done to them what they did to mankind.

[/color]

[CaptainInvictus]

[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by Eugi [/i]
(hehe who could even think when youre watching Revolutions)[/QUOTE]

You're right, you cannot think while watching Revolutions, otherwise you'd probably suffer brain damage.

The architect once said "We have become quite good at destroying Zion."

My ***.

[IMG]http://hometown.aol.com/pepper4099/images/zergrush01.jpg[/IMG]

[Manic Webb]

I understand, now. It makes perfect sense! Took me a couple weeks to figure out, but I get who represents what.

[spoiler]I was sitting around today, trying to think of what Seraph could possibly represent in the story, then it hit me.

Merovingian represents Satan/The Devil. In Greek mythology, Persephone was the wife of Hades, the lord of the underworld. In The Matrix, Persephone is the wife of Merovingian. On top of that, the name of Merovingian's club, I believe, is The Hell Club. How does this tie into Seraph?

A Seraphim is a type of angel; like a Guardian Angel, Archangel, Virtue, Principality, or Cherub. When Seraph, Morpheus, and Trinity fought the guards outside of the Hell Club, the guards refered to Seraph as "the fallen one," implying Seraph is some kind of fallen angel. Merovingian said Seraph used to work for him. This also implies Merovingian is a devil figure in the Matrix Universe.

That only means Smith represents one person. The anti-christ. If Neo is some kind of a Jesus-figure, then his opposite (Smith) must be an anti-christ figure. Because The One's return was expected, this could mean Neo was supposed to represent the second coming of Christ.

While I'm talking about the end of the world...

Revolutions. Revelations. *cough* Yep.

Let's not forget about those 4 horsemen of the apocalypse. The War between Zion and the machines. The Death of many characters. Smith turning into a virus (Pestilence). I'm still trying to think of signs of famine, though. Did anybody notice anyone going hungry in any way?[/spoiler]

Gotta love symbolism.

[IQ2]

Okay, so Smith was a recent development, but what is Neo? Neo was only Agent Smith's equal in the first film until he became "The One." Then Smith began to multiply and become powerful. As Neo took domination over the real world, Smith took domination over the cyber world. Neo was just as much a "malfunction" as Smith was, since it was not expected for him to do the things he did. You'll find throughout the films that there is rarely an instance where Neo proves to be ultimately stronger than Agent Smith, and vice versa. Each in their many combats appear as equals.

I don't like how a lot of people compare Neo to Jesus Christ. I'm not Christian, but there is a vast difference between the two. First off, Jesus was a healer, Neo wasn't. Neo was a freedom fighter. If anything he would be more like Barbarous. If the film maker REALLY wanted Neo to be presented as a Christ-figure they would have had that ending scene with him tied up in the machine with him in an upward stance showing his head down and his arms extended outward... but they didn't. This particular film may have some "Christ-like" elements, but it is in no way a reflection of Christ.

Smith as an anti-Christ is just stupid as well. An anti-Christ is a person who believes in Christ but does things completely against Christianity. Smith did not believe in "The One" in any way. He thought of it as some stupid myth. He saw "human choice" as irrational, and so he was incapable of being the "bacteria against Jesus." He did hate mankind's nature, but that's not an anti-Christ, that's just hate. In terms of Smith being some kind of biblical figure he would be closest to Harod, who was willing to do what ever it took to get power.

Neo may have represented some of Jesus' morals, but not all of them. Neo is more of a Platonist than a Jesus-figure (although similar they are different). Smith was also not like Harod entirely and was more of a Machiavellian than a Hardod-figure.

[CaptainInvictus]

[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by IQ2 [/i]
[B]Okay, so Smith was a recent development, but what is Neo? Neo was only Agent Smith's equal in the first film until he became "The One." Then Smith began to multiply and become powerful. As Neo took domination over the real world, Smith took domination over the cyber world. Neo was just as much a "malfunction" as Smith was, since it was not expected for him to do the things he did. You'll find throughout the films that there is rarely an instance where Neo proves to be ultimately stronger than Agent Smith, and vice versa. Each in their many combats appear as equals.

I don't like how a lot of people compare Neo to Jesus Christ. I'm not Christian, but there is a vast difference between the two. First off, Jesus was a healer, Neo wasn't. Neo was a freedom fighter. If anything he would be more like Barbarous. If the film maker REALLY wanted Neo to be presented as a Christ-figure they would have had that ending scene with him tied up in the machine with him in an upward stance showing his head down and his arms extended outward... but they didn't. This particular film may have some "Christ-like" elements, but it is in no way a reflection of Christ.

Smith as an anti-Christ is just stupid as well. An anti-Christ is a person who believes in Christ but does things completely against Christianity. Smith did not believe in "The One" in any way. He thought of it as some stupid myth. He saw "human choice" as irrational, and so he was incapable of being the "bacteria against Jesus." He did hate mankind's nature, but that's not an anti-Christ, that's just hate. In terms of Smith being some kind of biblical figure he would be closest to Harod, who was willing to do what ever it took to get power.

Neo may have represented some of Jesus' morals, but not all of them. Neo is more of a Platonist than a Jesus-figure (although similar they are different). Smith was also not like Harod entirely and was more of a Machiavellian than a Hardod-figure. [/B][/QUOTE]

Thank you. I'm getting sick of all this "OMFG BIBLICAL SUBTLETY" stuff.

[James]

[color=#707875]Heh, I think that the biblical stuff is there as a kind of double symbolism...in the sense that The Matrix isn't really a religious story at all. I mean, the story is the story...it just happens to have a lot of religious overtones to it. In other words, I don't think they were sitting around saying "Okay, this guy is the anti-christ, this guy is Jesus, this guy is Satan", etc.

It just happens that there are a lot of links between the two ideas. Don't get me wrong though; I do think that those links are deliberate and exist for a reason. But the actions of the story can't be compared to the actions of religious stories; it's more a question of there being similarities with the position of different characters. The problem with too much religious symbolism being thrust into the story is that people are trying to make The Matrix fit religion, when really, it's the other way around (in this case, anyway).[/color]

[Artemis]

Manic, I have to agree, your parallels make a lot of sense. (Coming from someone who's read several of the Left Behind books--then got sick of them, owns "The Omega Code"--and loves it, has read "Pierced by a Sword"--several times, and has read only "The Stand" of Stephen Kings novels.) I honestly think they intended religius themes. Why else would Neo wear a cassock? (I tease my priest about his "dress" as much as possible and then told him it was cool now b/c of Neo...) :D
As far as the movies go... I could have done w/o the massive orgy scenes in 2 and 3... :twitch: The one in Revolutions looked like a Ramstein music video... :twitch:
Anyway, the first movie is definitely my fave. Even if they did ever decide to make more (w/ or w/o Reeves...)--and they won't--I don't think they could ever top the original. 'tis a shame...
Oh yeah, when they came out in their mobil suits, I had to shout out in the theater, "IT'S A GUNDAM!!" Man, that cracked me up! :laugh:

[CaptainInvictus]

Welp, I think I'll bring over my review from the Allspark and Bob and George forums.

[quote]This is just my opinion, mind you. I would appreciate it if none of you decided to nitpick my review, and ?explain? to me why I?m wrong and you?re right. This is how I feel about it, and I?m totally entitled to it.

Revolutions, I thought as a whole, was awful. The acting. The ending. [spoiler]The Trinity death scene.[/spoiler] The horribly-akin-to-DBZ Smith/Neo fight. The most comedic point in the movie was when Neo was in the building, Smith walks towards him, and Neo does this really, really goddamn stupid arm-flailing and then waves to Smith, signaling for him to attack. I really did "lol" at that point. Couple other people did, too. It was pretty ludicrous.

That said...

I have never seen such a chaotic battle in a movie such as Revolutions's Battle for Zion. There had to be THOUSANDS of things going on at any given time. The APU's were absolutely amazing. I must admit, I was skeptical about the CGI prowess when I saw the rally arm-raisings of the APUs in the theatrical trailer(on my computer, natch), but on the big screen...they just...wow. Apparently, they also built life-size APU models for the pilots to climb into and stuff. I want one. :p

I was literally gripping the edge of my seat when [spoiler]the Borer broke through.[/spoiler] Then the rumbling, and the [spoiler]swarm of Sentinels. They were mostly taken out by the APU's, and I was like "Oh, they're not doing so bad." right before the MASSIVE ?arm? of Sentinels reached through the hole and basically swatted all the APU's away. That leader dude got a nice ?Death or Glory? (in this case, both :p ) scene, pretty ridiculous that he held off the entire tide of Sentinels for that long. Still, it was an AMAZING fight. And then the Hammer came in and EMP?d their *****. You just KNEW there would be thousands, even MILLIONS more on the way, though.[/spoiler] This Zion battle made it ALL worth sitting through.

And the look on that snobby general guy(Sue me, I don?t like to remember names) when the sentinels were tearing everything up was akin to the face you?d make if you were Lyndon B. Johnson, working at your desk, and suddenly someone walks into your office and says ?The president has been assassinated.? Comedy gold.

Alright, details on why I didn?t like it.

1.) This thing was Gouda. It stunk of Limburger. It was a wheel. In other words, CHEESY.

2.) [spoiler]Trinity death scene. Jesus. Just frickin? DIE already and get on with the story. If I was impaled in the abdomen, chest, and side by three rather large metal rods, you?d bet your britches I?d be dead pretty damn fast. Considering, y?know, the vital organs punctured and all. But this scene lasted, what, five minutes? More? It seemed to drag on forever. This was your typical ?I must reveal to you the entire life story of your father before I die, which will take a good ten minutes, even though I?ve lost all my appendages and half my face, I won?t bleed to death until I?m finished.? Not exactly, but you get my meaning. Nearly EVERY movie where the girlfriend/boyfriend/mentor/brother/etc. die in the vicinity of the hero has that person coughing and choking up blood and stuff, and have devastating injuries, but they somehow hold out until they?re finished with their little speech.[/spoiler]

3.) They can do CGI, but they sure as hell can?t do makeup as good. The huge gashes on the leader dude?s face were alright at best. [spoiler]The scabbed-over eyes on Neo were odd-looking, they didn?t look like his eyes had fried. Then again, they?d probably have to poke out both his eyes to really give you that ?exploded eyeball? feeling?[/spoiler]

4.) It has been said a thousand times by a thousand different people. This is live action DBZ minus the energy blasts and loud, constipated grunting.

5.) Ending. [spoiler]I was expecting some incredibly complex ending for this amazing series(Reloaded wasn?t all that good, but it was tolerable besides the 10-minute orgy scene), and instead I got the ?Oh look, a rainbow. Everyone feels better now.? ending.[/spoiler] If it had some ?deeper meaning?, then I didn?t get it. If it?s that convoluted, then I don?t really care. But I DID like the ?What do you think I am? Human?? comment by the Architect. :)[/quote]


[color=darkblue]This post has now been given spoiler tags, for the seen-the-movie impared
--Manic[/color]

[Shinobi]

I am 30 minutes back from watching the ending of this great series. I am stuck between wether i like it or not. I dunno, it is wierd. It seemed pretty average to me, although when i look back on it, there was nothing in the film i didn't like. It is a very wierd feeling. I think i like it, it is probably becuase i am so fresh from seeing it and haven't had alot fo time to think over some of the plot and/or talk to someone about the film. [spoiler]So yeah, i did however love the fighting. At the beginging when they went to Frenchies club and where fighting the guys, i thought they were (like terra said) trying to relive The Matrix with the pillers and funky cartwheels and so on. I did however like how they were on the ceiling but i think they just did that so that it wasn't EXACTLY the same as The Matrix "Lobby" scene.

Well, the best part of "The Showdown" was ofcourse.....THAT PUNCH! Wow, i loved it lol. That actually made me moist it was so damn sexy. LOL. The fighting really reminded me of DBZ-esque when they were fighting in the air. Like many said it would look good if it was anime. I would defenitly see the "anime addons" if they actually made it, and by the looks of the ending they will.[/spoiler]

Yeah, i think i've decided i liked this film, lol. Nice ;).