Stem cells, right or wrong?

[Guest PhoenixFlame]

im pretty sure that if you were to sever something with cells and the cells were not damaged if you were to put it back together it would merge back together such as cut a vegetable in half and put it back together...understand? and as for ageing the loss and regrowth of cells is what causes ageing..and quit being such a smart elic..youll get better people as friends

[Baron Samedi]

Stem cells, may be able to do that, however, merely doing the "right kind of research" won't necessarily make it happen. It may be impossible. Also I don't think we would be able to be like Piccolo off DBZ and grow our arms back. The system is too fine to be able to do that. Besides, it sounds completley like sci-fi. Not something they can just "research" and achieve.

Also, what do my friends have to do with anything? You don't even know who my OB friends are, do you? I have quite a few.

By the way, it's Smart [i]Alec[/i].

[Guest PhoenixFlame]

i said put back together not grow a new one.... and from what ive seen your ussually a pain to people so..if your a pain they must be too

[craig8429]

[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by Drix D'Zanth [/i]
[B]This is where I have a problem. I'm totally and whole heartedly against abortion. Granted, I'll listen to other's peoples veiws. Jenna knows this. But, I there are other ways to harvest stem cells. Aborting babies for stem cells just gives women an excuse I don't belive they should have.

The statistics will change. Over 86% of women abort because they just "don't want the baby", only 1% for rape... Now it's going to change to 86% of women abort because "it's to save other lives". I hate trying to justify murder. [/B][/QUOTE]

Im also against the idea of women aborting just to give stem cells.

but if a female is having the abortion they should give the cells just to help society.


I'm totally against abortion myself....it's a horrible thing(minus when a female is raped but I still think it's wrong)

[Guest PhoenixFlame]

im ok for stem cell research as long as it doesnt cause permanent damage to anyone such as paralysis and death....

[Maully]

[color=green]I do not mean to be rude, but PhoenixFlame, do you know what stem cell research is?? As to you last post, paralysis is one of the things they think stem cells may help cure. I don't understand your posts, myself. Maybe that's my own stupidity...maye not...

I agree with Drix, although I hate to sound like a follower. Abortion is a touchy subject, and so, in turn is this one. They are not the same, but they are connected. I made a point earlier that there was talk about monetary compensation for an aborted fetus. Don't hold me to it, but I think it was $800 plus cost of the abortion. How much is a human life worth?? Let the scientists tell you...

Craig, as to your saying if there are so many aborted babies... I am uncomfortable with that statement, and I can't really pinpoint why...It just seems like an excuse. After a staement like that, I was slightly surprised the hear your stance on abortion overall.[/color]

(off-topic)Baron, I like your new avi and banner.

[Guest PhoenixFlame]

Well molleta if stem cell research is this complex the chances are if you screw up by even 0.5 percent it will screw the person up PERMANENTLY.

[Baron Samedi]

I must agree with Molleta, PhoenixFlame. Do you know what it is? It uses the cells from a baby/placenta etc. which are new and have high growth capabilities, to replace and regenerate the ones in the host body. I am pretty sure it won't paralise them or anyhing ~_^

BTW: Thanks Molleta.

[b]EDIT********[/b]

[quote][i]Originally posted by PhoenixFlames[/i]

and quit being such a smart elic..youll get better people as friends
[/quote]
[quote]
and from what ive seen your ussually a pain to people so..if your a pain they must be too

[/quote]

You signed up on the 18th. You have been here [i]two[/i] days, and say that I am a smart alec. You diss my friends, who you do not even know, you assume I am a pain, you accuse them of being pains. Where do you get off on that? That really irks me when people assume to know me. You have read, a whole [i]three[/i] of my posts? And you say I am a pain to people? What a load of rubbish. You would know [i]nothing[/i] about me. Not a single whit. And you say I am "usually a pain".

And you are nasty to my friends, who, may I repeat, you do not even know. You would know how?

I needed to say that. That was bugging me.

[craig8429]

[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by Molleta [/i]
[B][color=green]
Craig, as to your saying if there are so many aborted babies... I am uncomfortable with that statement, and I can't really pinpoint why...It just seems like an excuse. After a staement like that, I was slightly surprised the hear your stance on abortion overall.[/color]

(off-topic)Baron, I like your new avi and banner. [/B][/QUOTE]

hmm I am totally against it, but you can't stop the many that happen everyday, so why not harvest the cells and help... it does make me sound really rude but, I'm just suggesting not to waste what they are allready losing.

[Guest PhoenixFlame]

Since I got here you have been nothing but a pain to other people and I so I must assume you must hang out with people like that,because if your a pain to other people how could anyone nice be your friend? Thats where i get off on it.Also you admitted that you were being sarcastic and a smart alec is ussually someone who is sarcastic alot.Does that clear things up a little?

[DeathBug]

The things that can be done theoretically with stem cells are amazing, and would greatly benefit society.

**However**, using stem cells from humn fetuses in this reasearch is wrong. Completely, totally, absolutly wrong. There is no grey area.

"But DeathBug, the babies were aborted anyway."

Doesn't matter. Providing *any* rationalization for abortion is wrong. Besides, what will happen if the amount of stem cells required exceeds the amount of aborted children? You can't tell me that no one would start getting pregnant and having abortions just to get the cells.

"But DeathBug, stem cells can save lives, and improve the quality of life for millions of people."

As long as the only reliable way to get S-cells is from the murder of unborn children, they'll just have to wait. No one has the right to deny another life on the basis of extending the life of another. That *is* playing God, by the very definition of the term.

"But DeathBug, what if it were one of your loved ones who could benefit from s-cells? What would you think then?"

I would hope that no one I'm deeply attached to would be so selfish as to condone or request murder to extend their own life. If they would, perhaps I didn't know them as well as I thought I did.

"But DeathBug, what if *you're* the one dying, and s-cells from an aborted fetus could save your life?"

Then my sisters can have my TV, Myssy can have my GBA and my manga, Ernesto can have my comics and Carolyn can have my encyclopedia.

Do'nt get me wrong, stem cells themselves can save lives and improve them. However, until there's a reliable way to get stem cells than from slaughtered babies, I will not support it for any reason.

On a brighter note....what a funky lil' rodent!

[Guest PhoenixFlame]

LOL.Nice dude i especially liked the part about the scientist joke,but yes you are definately right,especially since the stem cells only allow them to live another 40 or so years before they die of old age,thats robbing a person of 75 years of life just extend ones life for 40.Very very sad indeed.

[The Original]

[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by DeathBug [/i]
[B]The things that can be done theoretically with stem cells are amazing, and would greatly benefit society.

**However**, using stem cells from humn fetuses in this reasearch is wrong. Completely, totally, absolutly wrong. There is no grey area.

"But DeathBug, the babies were aborted anyway."

Doesn't matter. Providing *any* rationalization for abortion is wrong. Besides, what will happen if the amount of stem cells required exceeds the amount of aborted children? You can't tell me that no one would start getting pregnant and having abortions just to get the cells.

"But DeathBug, stem cells can save lives, and improve the quality of life for millions of people."

As long as the only reliable way to get S-cells is from the murder of unborn children, they'll just have to wait. No one has the right to deny another life on the basis of extending the life of another. That *is* playing God, by the very definition of the term.

"But DeathBug, what if it were one of your loved ones who could benefit from s-cells? What would you think then?"

I would hope that no one I'm deeply attached to would be so selfish as to condone or request murder to extend their own life. If they would, perhaps I didn't know them as well as I thought I did.

"But DeathBug, what if *you're* the one dying, and s-cells from an aborted fetus could save your life?"

Then my sisters can have my TV, Myssy can have my GBA and my manga, Ernesto can have my comics and Carolyn can have my encyclopedia.

Do'nt get me wrong, stem cells themselves can save lives and improve them. However, until there's a reliable way to get stem cells than from slaughtered babies, I will not support it for any reason.[/B][/QUOTE]

You seem to think that stem-cells can [b]only[/b] come from aborted fetuses. This is not so. They can come from blood and the umbilical cords, among other things. I'd forgive you if you hadn't looked it up, but Drix said so right at the start of the thread.

[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by Drix D'Zanth [/i]
[B]As for stem cells... people don't realize stem cells can be harvested from blood, placenta, and the unbilical chords.[/B][/QUOTE]

Look it up. You can get stem-cells without snuffin' out random babies. PhoenixFlame, why are you hatin' on Baron? Sorry Mods, I know it's off topic, and I'm not exactly helping, but I'm curious. I'll ask you to insult others in PMs, and to at least back it up with some evidence. I'm sure Baron would be delighted if you couldat least dig up a few incriminating quotes for him.

[QUOTE][i] Originally posted by Deathbug[/i]
[b]On a brighter note....what a funky lil' rodent!

Scientest 1: Hey, have you guys cured the common cold yet?

Scientest 2: Uh...no....but look! We put a big honki'n ear on a mouses back!!

Scientest 1: Cool!![/B][/QUOTE]

Ahem. I believe that's [u]my[/u] joke. Hehe.

[DeathBug]

I believe I stated in my post in several places that I was reffering to stem-cells gained from aborted fetuses. I repeated the phrase "from aborted fetuses" many times.

Of course I have no problem with stem cells coming from other sources.

The information I'd read said that the *most reliable* way to get stem cells was from human fetuses. If this information is innaccurate, then Im' sorry I wasted everyone's time.

I was scanning the middle of the thread and only read the beginning and end post thoroughly. I missed your joke the first time. Sorry; my unoriginal knock-off is gone now.

[The Original]

[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by DeathBug [/i]
[B]I believe I stated in my post in several places that I was reffering to stem-cells gained from aborted fetuses. I repeated the phrase "from aborted fetuses" many times.

Of course I have no problem with stem cells coming from other sources.

The information I'd read said that the *most reliable* way to get stem cells was from human fetuses. If this information is innaccurate, then Im' sorry I wasted everyone's time.

I was scanning the middle of the thread and only read the beginning and end post thoroughly. I missed your joke the first time. Sorry; my unoriginal knock-off is gone now. [/B][/QUOTE]

God. Once again, I didn't read the whole post. Sorry 'bout that one. I really need to pay better attention...

[Guest PhoenixFlame]

[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by The Original [/i]
[B]You seem to think that stem-cells can [b]only[/b] come from aborted fetuses. This is not so. They can come from blood and the umbilical cords, among other things. I'd forgive you if you hadn't looked it up, but Drix said so right at the start of the thread.



Look it up. You can get stem-cells without snuffin' out random babies. PhoenixFlame, why are you hatin' on Baron? Sorry Mods, I know it's off topic, and I'm not exactly helping, but I'm curious. I'll ask you to insult others in PMs, and to at least back it up with some evidence. I'm sure Baron would be delighted if you couldat least dig up a few incriminating quotes for him.



Ahem. I believe that's [u]my[/u] joke. Hehe. [/B][/QUOTE]
*Acts like baron* Ahem I think that use of Hating is improper grammar.Thats one reason he gripes at me for using improper grammar when he uses words like diss which is not a real word at all, and another reason is that hes been a pain to me since I came here.I dont need anything more than someone being a pain to me the first time we meet and several times afterwards to be be "hatin'" on anyone.

[Brasil]

[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by Drix D'Zanth [/i]
[B]The ear thing isn't a hoax.. I've actually been able to see the mold that is used to create an ear, or a replica.

[URL=http://tlc.discovery.com/convergence/superhuman/photo/zoom_03.html]Cute mouse :p[/URL]

As for stem cells... people don't realize stem cells can be harvested from blood, placenta, and the unbilical chords. I am all for stem cell research, and think that any advances concerning science in this feild are more than welcome.

However, I don't think the research should consist of aborted babies, or entire human cloning at ALL. I'm absolutely pro-life on the topic, and I know that being able to say "Well, at least I gave it's stem cells to save someone else," takes off part of a guilt trip that I belive [b]should[/b] be there (of course this changes in the case of rape, however I'm still pro-life in that situation).

Continue research by all means, just don't kill babies in the process ^_^. [/B][/QUOTE]

Drix. That pic is sick. And coming from me, me calling something sick...that takes A LOT of sickness.

Stem cell research is both right and wrong. It's horribly horribly horribly wrong in the case of that mouse-ear. That's...Frankenstein gone wrong...that's...immoral genetic engineering.

That...that...is ******* sick. Pardon the language lol.

OK. I'm for stem cell research, because I don't like seeing a quadriplegic unable to move, having to be supported by machine upon machine upon machine. If an aborted fetus can help that person who can't help themselves to even move, I'm all for it.

If one mentions "fetus potential," what about that quadriplegic's potential? What if that quadriplegic could walk?

Surely people would want that, correct? To see another human being able to stand on two legs on his or her own?

I know I'm not the most sentimental person around, but seeing that would bring a lot of joy to my heart, and knowing that other people support that quadriplegic walking again would make me believe in mankind. lol.

Most of you say the human race is not cold-hearted, most of you disagreed with me on the "humans as monsters" idea. Are you prepared to say that restoring physical ability to one who hasn't been able to walk in a long, long time isn't important enough to extract stem cells from an aborted fetus? If you are, then that sounds very cold-hearted.

Anyway, I'm mostly pro stem cell research...except in the case of growing gigantic ears on the back of mice. That's just plain wrong. That's something out of bad science fiction. "The Day The Mouse Grew Ears."

EDIT: Oh yeah, PhoenixFlame, shut-up. Stop whining and maybe you won't get banned.

[Maully]

[color=green]PT wasn't referring to his opinion on stem cells, I don't think... I think he was tlking about his abuse towards Baron, who is very capable of defending himself.

As to S-cells, I think it is agreed that great things can be done with them if research is continued. I think PhoenixFlame did raise one good point...Is it right to give up an entire life for some one to extend someone elses life further?? this is a question that reaches beyond this subject, really and one that must be personally faced by everyone.

I am all for research on existing cell, and as Drix pointed out, on cells that are harvested without a sacrificial lamb (is that bad terminology?) Yes, fetal cells are the most reliable way to get them, but it is not the only way...stop taking the shortcuts...[/color]

[Guest PhoenixFlame]

Cells live on energy right?Heres an idea why not get a middle aged set of cells and fill them (if theyd spend enough time trying to figure out how to keep from wasting cells by taking life) with energy......Ahhhh screw it...But if im not mistaken im pretty sure young cells are young because of their amount of energy, isn't that right or did i fall asleep in science class last year?

[AutoKill]

PhoenixFlame

Am not a scientist. But s-cells work something like this. In a fetus the cells are not fully-grown. They have the basic structure of a cell. But they do not belong to anything. As the baby grows the cells form what they need to form origins and such. Scientist figured out by placing these undetermined cells with cells that already have became part of a structuer together. In doing this they found out that the undetermined cell (s-cells) creates whatever it seems to be around. So... your idea of taking a "middle aged cell" and replacing its guts with s-cell, would prove to be false by all my logical thinking.
And you lost me on the whole energy part. Energy just means the ability to do work. It seems to me that you wanted to get to spiritual on it.

And also? Baron is a cool guy, Don?t be mouthing off

[Baron Samedi]

[quote][i]originally posted by PhoenixFlames[/i]

Since I got here you have been nothing but a pain to other people and I so I must assume you must hang out with people like that,because if your a pain to other people how could anyone nice be your friend? Thats where i get off on it.Also you admitted that you were being sarcastic and a smart alec is ussually someone who is sarcastic alot.Does that clear things up a little?

[/quote]

Who else have I been a pain to? Aside from you? If people make an opinion I think is wrong, or whatever it happens to be, I am perfectly within my right to make a rebuttal. Same as if they insult me/and my friends. Maybe you are too narrow-minded to conceive the thought of a rebuttal, or sarcasm, or friendly argument? Eh? Sure I said I was being sarcastic. it is also a form of humour however, and people with good social skills can usually distinguish sarcasm, [i]even in text[/i]. was anyone else unsure if I was being sarcastic at whichever point he was referring to? If so, my apologies for being too vague. Sarcasm is a slightly sophistcated sense of humour. Sometimes, it is too abstract.

[quote]*Acts like baron* Ahem I think that use of Hating is improper grammar.Thats one reason he gripes at me for using improper grammar when he uses words like diss which is not a real word at all, and another reason is that hes been a pain to me since I came here.I dont need anything more than someone being a pain to me the first time we meet and several times afterwards to be be "hatin'" on anyone.[/quote]

lol. Highly humourous ~_^. At least The Original's writing is easily legible. Using "hatin' " is an affectation, like "Eh" or other such typing use. With you, you have plain bad grammar. Sure I use diss. But at least most of my writing is easy to understand and maintains proper form. I would be a "pain" to anyone who made unsupported, idiotic comments. You have some good points, on the [strike]very[/strike] rare occasion. But I disagree with you, make a rebuttal, and you get flustered. my fault? Soooo sorry.~_^

Stem cells do not need to come from "dead" or "aborted" babies, but rather, can come from a placenta or blood (I think blood...) from the birth. And if someone makes [i]their own free choice to abort for personal reasons,[/i] then why should you have a problem with the cells being used to [i]help another person.[/i]. I can understand religious issues on this, but there is nothing wrong with using waste by-products, is there? I don't think someone would abort their baby, merely for the process of harvesting stem cells ~_^.

[James]

[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by Baron Samedi [/i]
[B]
Stem cells do not need to come from "dead" or "aborted" babies, but rather, can come from a placenta or blood (I think blood...) from the birth. And if someone makes [i]their own free choice to abort for personal reasons,[/i] then why should you have a problem with the cells being used to [i]help another person.[/i]. I can understand religious issues on this, but there is nothing wrong with using waste by-products, is there? I don't think someone would abort their baby, merely for the process of harvesting stem cells ~_^. [/B][/QUOTE]

[color=#707875]I agree with this. Apparently there is some reason why stem cells are somehow "better" from a fetus...but I don't know enough about it to make a comment on that.

What I will say, however, is that if a fetus has been aborted and is going to be discarded, stem cells [i]should[/i] be extracted. I say this for two reasons. One, because the fetus has no possiblity of life. And two, because the fetus doesn't know any different -- what it, as a discarded fetus, contributes could make a massive difference to someone with a terminal illness.

I mean, if you have a four year old girl with a major spinal disease...and you can use the stem cells of an already-aborted fetus to assist her, what are you going to do? Are you going to allow her to suffer for the rest of her life because of some principle and overly-emotional commitment you have? I don't know. It's something to think about.

Obviously, I don't condone the mass production of fetuses for the sole purpose of extracting stem cells. That's just weird and inappropriate. But fetuses that are [i]already[/i] to be discarded should certainly be used. If someone is found to be making fetuses [i]just[/i] to sell them or collect stem cells...then that person should be charged with a crime, in my view.[/color]

[outlawstar69]

Well now... I've read all of the posts here, and am glad to be reading something mentaly stimulating before the thread was closed. (Even with all of the under handed personal comments). Here are my views on this:
I think that taken in the right way, stem cell research is worth taking up. It doesn't have to be from fetuses, which by the way are able to have stem cells taken from them before they even develop a nervous system. That only matters if you want to debate when fetuses become sentient beings, of course. Some believe that they are humans, people, upon the moment of conception. Some think that they are people (in the sense that they have a soul) after a certain point in thier development (I wish I could give a time period but it's early morning and can't rememeber). Still others think that moment is when ever they are born... you know, I read that they can extrapalate (take out) stem cells from adult humans fat tissue, as well as from umbilical cords. The reason why fetuses are even involved is because the stem cells from fetuses are the ones most able to become whatever the scientist's want. We have to remember that the whole reason we are even talking about stem cells is because of their ability to become like any other cell in the body. That is all I will say for now, seeing as I have to wake people up for school and get ready for senior pictures. I really hope that I will get some intelligent replys on this.