Choosing a political party

[DeathBug]

With the knowledge that next year I'll be able to vote, and that I'll be able to vote in the upcoming presidential election, for several months now I've been doing political research in hopes of finding a political affiliation.

I've taken several tests to place my personal political feelings, and always wound up as "moderate". Sadly, that's not a party. (Until the Independant party gets their act together and becomes a legitamate political force that does more than take votes from the two main parties, I do not consider them a viable option. No offense to any Independants.)

However, I've been reading editorials, watching CNN and FOXNews, listening to talk radio and surfing the web...but for a while I could have gone any way. I agreed with the basic principles of the Republican party, but didn't like everything they did, and certain Democrat ideas appealed to me.

Then, playing a hunch, I made a list of all the politicians who ticked me off. Nine out of ten of them were Democrats. I went to noindoctrination.org, a non-partisan site that asks college students to report cases of teachers abusing their power to force political opinions on students; each case was always of a liberal teacher behaving badly.

There is a Young Republican party at my school, but no Young Democrats. Does the Democratic party not consider me a viable voter?

Celebrities with ties to the Democratic party constantly say things I disagree with. It also bothers me how celebrities preach charity, yet the most outspoken have more money than they can ever spend. (Strisand)

Ever since Bush was elected, the Democratic party has been disorganized and whiny. I've found some of their behavior disgraceful, and many of their political tactics underhanded. Whenever I hope they can show me a glimmer of professionalism, they let me down.

Do I agree with everything the Republican party does? Nope. I was against the California recall, even though a Republican was the frontrunner. Some Republicans downright torque me off.

However, in the end, I am now an ideological (if unregistered), Republican voter. The Republican party and Democtatic party were once both viable options, but the Deocratic party alienated me with a string of disgusting behavior.

That said, how did those OB'ers with political affiliation come to their decision on a party?

[Guest cloricus]

You're American right? If so I'll leave you with this quote.

"America's political system consists of every four years there being a popularity contest and the rest of the time the place is run by lobby groups." (My father quoted that to me, not sure who said it first. Though after seeing the way the last one worked and what?s happened in the time since it sounds very accurate to me.)

So in the end does it matter? You?re what; 1 in 180 million voters? Why bother, it?s not as if you?re vote even counts in the long run.

[Shinmaru]

[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by cloricus [/i]
[B]So in the end does it matter? You?re what; 1 in 180 million voters? Why bother, it?s not as if you?re vote even counts in the long run. [/B][/QUOTE]

Really, this kind of thinking is what's contributing to people's negative thoughts about politics and the American government in particular.

Many people here don't vote because they assume that their vote doesn't matter...but what they don't realize is that they can do so much more than vote. People can get their ideas out to other people and inform the masses. What once was one vote can become many if you can convince enough people to agree with you.

However, a lot of people simply say "Screw politics, it's all a waste of time," sit on their ***** and do nothing at all. It's unfortunate, but it's true. I'm not saying you have to be some crazy radical who does nothing but preach politics and make insane speeches but a little more participation in politics can go a long way.

Anyway, to get back on topic, I'll be registering to vote fairly soon, as well (my 18th birthday is a week from today). Even though I'm really stuck in the middle when it comes to Republican and Democratic ideas, I'll probably end up registering as a Republican, simply because I agree with them slightly more than I do with Democrats. But, really, I won't become one of those blind people who just vote based on their affiliation, because I hate that. People who vote for stuff just because it's Republican or Democrat annoy me.

[Darkness]

I go either way. I don't really care for politics, but I think that not voting is stupid. I can't complain about anything if I don't vote. I have to agree that the democratic party is looking pretty pathetic, but I am seriously upset with the way things have been under the bush administration (take your pick as to which one). Once we get G-dummy out of office I'll be content. Overall, I vote for what I believe is best at the time. Why just pick a party when the situation changes everytime election day comes around? It's pointless.

[Transtic Nerve]

[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by cloricus [/i]
[B]So in the end does it matter? You?re what; 1 in 180 million voters? Why bother, it?s not as if you?re vote even counts in the long run. [/B][/QUOTE]

Well if everyone thought that way, then no one would vote, then the individual vote would count... You know, more people don't vote than those who do vote, so if all the people who didn't vote, start voting, that itself could turn an election completely around.

And since voting is based on the states in America, it does matter more than voting in a nation. Bush didn't win the popularity vote in the 2000 election, Gore did, yet Bush still won, because of about 200-1000 (or something like that) votes in Florida... Because 200-1000 people decided not to vote, Florida's electorial college reps voted for Bush and not Gore, that certainly changed the outcome of the election.

It certainly doesn't take anymore than an hour to vote... an hour out of your Tuesday life to vote.

[Vegitto4]

Some of the people I know are straight ticket Republican, and some Democrat. I urge all of you to never vote that way. Sometime you will end up regretting it. I say vote your belief's.

To cloricus.
Once you take an American Government class(which i'm sure you probably have) and you actually believe that the vote doesn't count, and have proof that it doesn't, then PM me, and show it. Otherwise, stick to criticizing your own Government to the extent that you tend to criticize. (in that specific "your vote doesn't count in the long run" way)

If people really want something changed in the American Government, then they can write their respective Senator's, or representative, and either get a Bill that they have written sponsored, or propose a Bill idea.


I also believe that if you dont vote, dont complain. You had no part in the decision making process. Therefore, nothing you say matters.


now to the real topic.

=================================

I'm generally Republican. That's how I was brought up. I'm not teribbly active in Politics, but this december, I should be(thats the big 18) I didn't pay to much attention to the race a few years ago, because I couldn't vote in it. I figure, if I was actually old enough to vote, then what I say would matter. Because I would vote. I can't necessarily complain though.


On choosing your political party, I say vote your beliefs, and if they happen to align with a specific party, then feel free to become a card carrying member of that party.

[Maully]

[color=green]I am not straight ticket either way. I am registered unaffiliated. I don't get to vote in Primaries, since they're party only, but I am also not party pressured to vote one way or another.

My political views are pretty moderate, but from time to time I skew very far to one side. I agree with Vegitto4, register whichever, but vote the way you feel, not just on your partylines.[/color]

[Justin]

If I were you, DeathBug, I'd research candidates instead of parties. Often times, you can find candidates will deviate from the standard views of their parties.

Traditionally, I'm a Republican. My political views are generally conservative. However, if I saw anyone of another party that I think would do a better job, I'd vote for them easy.

So, to sum it up: Vote for the man, not for his party.

-Justin

[Transtic Nerve]

[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by Justin [/i]
[B]If I were you, DeathBug, I'd research candidates instead of parties. Often times, you can find candidates will deviate from the standard views of their parties.
[/B][/QUOTE]

Well you can't really do that to decide your party affiliation, cause each person is different from their party (take Arnold for example). Once you decide an affiliation, you can vote for whomever you want (with the excetion of the primarys) So choose your affiliation (do your research on your political party), then vote for whoever. (do research on the candidates)

[Guest rttocs77]

[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by DeathBug [/i]
[B]

There is a Young Republican party at my school, but no Young Democrats. Does the Democratic party not consider me a viable voter?[/B][/QUOTE]
Oh WOW! YOu are soo lucky! I go to probably the most liberal school on the plant. I am one of the [I]only[/I] four Republicans that go there. You are very VERY lucky, in my opinion, to have one there.


[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by DeathBug [/i]
[B]
Celebrities with ties to the Democratic party constantly say things I disagree with. It also bothers me how celebrities preach charity, yet the most outspoken have more money than they can ever spend. (Strisand)[/B][/QUOTE]

I could not agree with you more. It always seems like the Democrats are always the most whiney, annoying ones.


[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by DeathBug [/i]
[B]
Ever since Bush was elected, the Democratic party has been disorganized and whiny. I've found some of their behavior disgraceful, and many of their political tactics underhanded. Whenever I hope they can show me a glimmer of professionalism, they let me down.
[/B][/QUOTE]

I agree, yet again. I'm very proud to be a Republican.

[Dmitri_Dragoon]

Best thing to do here, is to go with whatever you want. Everyone above has made good points, but you just have to go with what your insight tells you.

I went with mine and registered Independent. It's the strongest of the minor parties, and actually has seats in Congress. Just have to wait for a president. Almost had one with Ross Peroe (sp).

But yeah, go with what you think is best for you.

[Guest cloricus]

But every one doesn't think like that TN; you should know that. The dedicated people for either side out number anyone?s individual voice and crush any thing they don't agree with so in the end you're one vote means nothing; lol and that's all pending on it's chad being what you want, you never know with you're physical voting system you could be voting for the wrong person. "Oh but we have new electronic voting systems" you might say; read the news if you think that. There are so many security holes in them they aren't even worth going near as hacking them is a peace of cake. (For some one who's good at it.)

The whole physical part of the voting is a joke; the way recounts and area's like that are handled is a joke; the process of "campaigning" is a popularity contest (see California?s election) so therefore a joke; the effects of lobby groups on the way senators vote (see tree clearing laws) is a joke so really in the end why bother. You are one person and unless you get lucky you will never have any effect on you're home town let a lone you're country just like every one else, that?s partly due to capitalism and human nature. (Not nocking capitalism btw.)

Just go in a vote for which ever one promises the best for you; they most likely won?t do what they promised and you?re vote wont count but at least you can say that you voted and hope you get a good deal out of it.

[spoiler]No I won?t act this way when it comes to the Australian elections; I?ve already worked out who I want to vote for and the positives and negatives. I like democracies where voting is fair, controlled and there is sort of some one worth voting for. :D[/spoiler]

[edit] I just thought I'd validate what I said about the E-Voting systems in the US incase some of you haven't seen the endless streams of bad news about them this is the lasted thanks to /.
[url=http://yro.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=03/11/12/1320208&mode=thread&tid=103&tid=126&tid=99]Link[/url].

[IQ2]

[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by Shinmaru [/i]
[B]Really, this kind of thinking is what's contributing to people's negative thoughts about politics and the American government in particular.[/b][/quote]

I think you are wrong here. I think this is what is RIGHT about American thinking on government. For the last 10 years the Canadian Reform party preached about a thing called "Democratic Deficiency." To understand this you have to define democracy. Democracy is a government-type at which people elect leaders to represent their opinions.

STOP! Here's where it comes in, are these leaders really representing the opinions of the people, or what they think is best for the nation? The United States in particular was hit bad after Bush went to war even after and hundreds of war protests in America and so few war support rallies (the only war support rally wasn't in support of the war but in support of the troops who were sent by Bush's dumb decision). So theoretically, since you voted for Bush he is supposed to be representing your opinion... but is he? Probably not. I'll bet few of the Senators or Congressman are either.

This "Democratic deficiency" begs to question what is the point in voting? You are voting for someone that you think will represent you best. Now what if you think there is no candidate alive that will represent you well? What is the real point in voting where it is a bi-party system. In Canada we have multiple parties which have potential (Liberal, PC, Reform, and Bloq). All have their own independent causes. What America needs to develop is a realistic third option.

In Canada we're going through a unique situation in terms of political parties. A union is forming between two very opposite parties (PC and Reform) to make one party. They're not really going to have common lines of ideas but will work on having as many open votes (all members get a vote in the decisions) as possible. This will cause more people's opinions to come into consideration. If the US was serious about maintaining their democratic model they should restructure themselves to something similar.

[quote]Many people here don't vote because they assume that their vote doesn't matter...but what they don't realize is that they can do so much more than vote. People can get their ideas out to other people and inform the masses. What once was one vote can become many if you can convince enough people to agree with you.[/quote]

That's a job for the politicians, isn't it? But you still admit that one vote really doesn't matter. If you voice your own opinion, it doesn't matter. Even if you form your own faction, what is the purpose? The logical thing to do, since you have your own political beliefs would be to form your own party, or go indy.

[quote]However, a lot of people simply say "Screw politics, it's all a waste of time," sit on their ***** and do nothing at all. It's unfortunate, but it's true. I'm not saying you have to be some crazy radical who does nothing but preach politics and make insane speeches but a little more participation in politics can go a long way.[/quote]

One of our freedoms is to make that decision for ourselves though. It is a person's right to vote or not vote. Sure it leads to that "Democratic Deficiency", but if politicians really worried about voters, they would give them feasable options.

Anyway, I'm a registered Canadian voter. I elected the current Liberal Prime Minister, the recent PC party in Newfoundland, and the recent PC party in Nova Scotia. These parties looked back and said "we gotta give them options" while the Liberals had their "serve the old" policy. The PC party now dominates the East, and the Reform party dominates the West. In the next election if these two parties can muster enough East and West votes they can destroy the Liberal's forts in Quebec and Ontario and have the first government where the ruling opinions are outside the province.

[ChibiHorsewoman]

[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by cloricus [/i]
[B]
So in the end does it matter? You?re what; 1 in 180 million voters? Why bother, it?s not as if you?re vote even counts in the long run. [/B][/QUOTE]

True, if one person out of 180 million people doesn't vote, that may not make a difference. But what if 1 person in each of the 50 states decided not to vote? Maybe that would make a slightly bigger difference. Who's to say.
Okay, what if 1 person from every large city in the united states decided not to vote and then say about 2 people from every company in the military decided not to send in their absentee ballot (FYI, there is usually an average of 4 companies to each battalion, sometimes 5, of course I'm also going by the US Army, so....). Maybe now you're vote would make more of a difference ne?
That's just my annoying way of putting this opinion in a slightly mathematical (and doing it @1:29 in the morning) point of veiw. BEsides, by thinking you don't count simply makes you begin to feel like less of a person. Since it just takes one grain of rice to tip the scale.
I didn't vote last year for a reason, and I didn't vote this year because I didn't registar to vote in the State of Texas. Mostly because i could care less who runs Texas, since technically I'm a resident of New York.
However, I am going to vote in 2004, if for no other reason than to get Bush out of office. I don't have a political party of choice, I just don't like the way the dude runs the country and has decided that Iraq is a year long tour of duty:mad: (of course, that could just be the Military itsself sohat do I know? Not to mention the fact that I fear if he remains in power for another 8 years Roe vs Wade will be extremely reduced and so will the part about separation of church and state.
Of course, that's just my opinion since I consider myself a moderate liberal.

[Transtic Nerve]

[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by rttocs77 [/i]
[B]I could not agree with you more. It always seems like the Democrats are always the most whiney, annoying ones.
[/B][/QUOTE]

And Republicans always tend to say ignorant and stupid comments... I'd rather be an annoying b*tch than a stupid ***. But I can't speak for all republicans, just the majority of them. After the rep Bush gives Republicans, I wouldn't be so proud. Then again, thats probably why you say and do the things you do.... so much pride on the side of Republicans.... no rational thinking involved.... oh I'm sorry, i digress, I just don't like it when people generalize political parties like that, I'm sure you didn't like what I just said.

The bottom line here is that a Politician can say whatever they want, but we all know (*cough* George Bush Sr. even though I liked the guy) that they can go and do exactly what they said they wouldn't. So in the end it really doesn't matter who you vote for cause they'll probably do something you don't want them to do... or they'll screw something up.... or get us into war.... or pretty much anything George Bush has "accomplished" in his pathetic 3 years so far.

If you like a good economy, be a Democrat. If you like tax cuts, be a Republican. If you like women's choice, be a Democrat, if you like guns, be a Republican. If you like guys who can't keep it in their pants, be a democrat, if you like guys who say the dumbest things on the face of the planet, be a Republican. If you don't want to vote in the Primaries and don't like anyone, be an Independant.

[Guest cloricus]

[quote]True, if one person out of 180 million people doesn't vote, that may not make a difference. But what if 1 person in each of the 50 states decided not to vote? Maybe that would make a slightly bigger difference.[/quote]
Read my post.

[edit] TN you know what they say; "You get the politicians you pay for."

[Transtic Nerve]

[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by cloricus [/i]
[B]
[edit] TN you know what they say; "You get the politicians you pay for." [/B][/QUOTE]

Aint that the god damned truth.

[DeathBug]

[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by Vegitto4 [/i]
[B]Some of the people I know are straight ticket Republican, and some Democrat. I urge all of you to never vote that way. Sometime you will end up regretting it. I say vote your belief's. [/B][/QUOTE]

See, I find this statement confusing, because, to me, the opposite is true. If you want to vote for your beliefs, you should vote for the party, not the person.

No person is ever going to hold all of my beliefs. However, a party philosophy, unlike a person, is unchanging (or, actually, changes very slowly.) As long as I tend to agree with the Republican philosophy and the majority of their party's total actions, I will vote for them, unless they do something I greatly anf fundamentally disagee with.

Granted, it's a year until I register, so they still have a year to alienate me. Likewise, the demoratic party still has a year to convince me that they actually aren't a bunch of lying incompetent whiners.

Granted, any political affiliation is better than saying "my vote doesn't matter; why bother?" A lot of people complain about Bush Jr., but maybe if voter turnout hadn't been so damn low in '00, Gore would have been President instead. (Granted, we'd all be screwed then, but I digress.)

[Shinmaru]

[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by IQ2 [/i]
[B]I think you are wrong here. I think this is what is RIGHT about American thinking on government. For the last 10 years the Canadian Reform party preached about a thing called "Democratic Deficiency." To understand this you have to define democracy. Democracy is a government-type at which people elect leaders to represent their opinions.

STOP! Here's where it comes in, are these leaders really representing the opinions of the people, or what they think is best for the nation? The United States in particular was hit bad after Bush went to war even after and hundreds of war protests in America and so few war support rallies (the only war support rally wasn't in support of the war but in support of the troops who were sent by Bush's dumb decision). So theoretically, since you voted for Bush he is supposed to be representing your opinion... but is he? Probably not. I'll bet few of the Senators or Congressman are either.[/quote][/b]

I agree with you for the most part. However, it's wishful thinking to want one person to represent the opinions of every person. It can't be done and that's because each person has their own opinion. With the massive amount of diverging opinions in the United States, would it really be plausible to want a leader who will conform to each of these opinions? Of course not because it can't be done.

[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by IQ2 [/i]
[B]This "Democratic deficiency" begs to question what is the point in voting? You are voting for someone that you think will represent you best. Now what if you think there is no candidate alive that will represent you well? What is the real point in voting where it is a bi-party system. In Canada we have multiple parties which have potential (Liberal, PC, Reform, and Bloq). All have their own independent causes. What America needs to develop is a realistic third option.[/quote][/b]

I agree with you here. As I stated earlier, I'm pretty much stuck in the middle when it comes to my political opinion. Neither the Democratic nor the Republican party truly represents my opinion. Would I prefer a viable third-party that more accurately represented my political opinions? Of course I would. Who wouldn't? The problem is that many of the American people are only prepared to accept one of the two major parties. I wish I had a way to solve this but I don't.

[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by IQ2 [/i]
[B]In Canada we're going through a unique situation in terms of political parties. A union is forming between two very opposite parties (PC and Reform) to make one party. They're not really going to have common lines of ideas but will work on having as many open votes (all members get a vote in the decisions) as possible. This will cause more people's opinions to come into consideration. If the US was serious about maintaining their democratic model they should restructure themselves to something similar.[/quote][/b]

I don't think I'm wrong in saying that this wouldn't make much difference in the U.S. [i]right now[/i] unless one of the two major parties were involved in a union. Would it be possible in the future? Maybe so, but I really don't know.

[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by IQ2 [/i]
[B]That's a job for the politicians, isn't it? But you still admit that one vote really doesn't matter. If you voice your own opinion, it doesn't matter. Even if you form your own faction, what is the purpose? The logical thing to do, since you have your own political beliefs would be to form your own party, or go indy.[/quote][/b]

Not neccessarily. There are people who go out everyday and actively particpate in politics, yet wouldn't be considered politicians. Even on a small scale (such as helping make a law for your city or something), people can participate in government. It's not always about forming political parties and thinking about the big picture.

[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by IQ2 [/i]
[B]One of our freedoms is to make that decision for ourselves though. It is a person's right to vote or not vote. Sure it leads to that "Democratic Deficiency", but if politicians really worried about voters, they would give them feasable options.[/quote][/b]

It is a person's right not to vote, but it's not a very smart decision, now is it? If a person abstains from voting, how does that really help them? Even with limited options, there has to be someone that you at least agree partway with.

[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by IQ2 [/i]
[B]Anyway, I'm a registered Canadian voter. I elected the current Liberal Prime Minister, the recent PC party in Newfoundland, and the recent PC party in Nova Scotia. These parties looked back and said "we gotta give them options" while the Liberals had their "serve the old" policy. The PC party now dominates the East, and the Reform party dominates the West. In the next election if these two parties can muster enough East and West votes they can destroy the Liberal's forts in Quebec and Ontario and have the first government where the ruling opinions are outside the province. [/B][/QUOTE]

Then I applaud you for actively participating in your government and making choices that matter.

[Guest rttocs77]

[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by Transtic Nerve [/i]
[B]
If you like a good economy, be a Democrat. If you like tax cuts, be a Republican. If you like women's choice, be a Democrat, if you like guns, be a Republican. If you like guys who can't keep it in their pants, be a democrat, if you like guys who say the dumbest things on the face of the planet, be a Republican. If you don't want to vote in the Primaries and don't like anyone, be an Independant. [/B][/QUOTE]

Clinton is partly responsible for therecession that has happened recently. His bubble econimic plans exploded in everyones face. He also cleared the national debt by "raping" the Army/Navy, CIA, and FBI.


The 80's had a great economy (well until the crash) under a Republican. The crash was also caused by junk bonds, not something the President did.

Also, Bush went to Andover and Yale. I seriously doubt you could get in. Don't even try saying that the only reason was because of connections, because it's not. Connections don't get you into those schools.Trust me.

Do you think Ben Stein says dumb things? He is a Republican and was a speech writer for Nixon (not for the Watergat deal though.)

[Transtic Nerve]

[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by rttocs77 [/i]
[B]The 80's had a great economy (well until the crash) under a Republican. The crash was also caused by junk bonds, not something the President did.[/quote][/b]

Reganomics.... right.... the reason for the crash was a combined effect of alot of things, including the infamous Reganomics.


[quote][b]Also, Bush went to Andover and Yale. I seriously doubt you could get in. Don't even try saying that the only reason was because of connections, because it's not. Connections don't get you into those schools.Trust me.[/b][/quote]

Trust you? Because you're a former president's son. You would know all about not getting into Yale and Andover. Have you heard Bush talk? Speak? Say anything remotely intelligent NOT written by someone else... have you been living under a rock? The guy has AVERAGE intelligence, if even that. You're not even out of high school.... what do you know about colleges and how they work.... everyone and everything has their price... Believe me, if I wanted to go to Harvard and I had 10 million dollars, you better bet they'll let me in.

[quote][b]Do you think Ben Stein says dumb things? He is a Republican and was a speech writer for Nixon (not for the Watergat deal though.) [/B][/QUOTE]

If you read my post you'll notice I said "But I can't speak for all republicans, just the majority of them."....so that should clear that up right there. I actually think Ben Stein is one of the more liberal republicans.

[Vegitto4]

[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by IQ2 [/i]
[B]I think you are wrong here. I think this is what is RIGHT about American thinking on government. For the last 10 years the Canadian Reform party preached about a thing called "Democratic Deficiency." To understand this you have to define democracy. Democracy is a government-type at which people elect leaders to represent their opinions.

. [/B][/QUOTE]

(direct)Democracy is actually when the people govern themselves.(just took government test, on which, this was)

A Republic is when you vote for people to rep. you.

So, in reality, this "democracy" in America is a slight joke, but it's one where you can take part if your not lazy.



Just thought I'd throw that tid bit in there.

[Raiha]

[color=royalblue]I read this and smile to myself, sip my cup of hot english tea with warm milk, flip open my copy of [u]The Confessions of St. Agustine[/u] and think of the joys of simply being [b]Declined to state.[/b] It's alot simpler, nobody sends you anything in the mail, and if the revolution comes without warning, nobody can slap anything on you.

Sure it's the coward's way out, but it's an option I'm flexing here....[/color]

[ChibiHorsewoman]

Now that I think about it, screw the voting, I'm gonna move to Antarctica and get the penguins to vote me as their queen:laugh:
All joking aside tho, I don't think my post was completely understood, so let me clarify it a little. (as clear as one can make something at 1:17 in the morning)
What I meant was that one person can make a difference. Maybe if more people had taken the time to vote (and the population of Florida wasn't so damn old...j/k) Bush wouldn't have been made President.
Of course, by the same token, he could've become president back in 2000, but it would've actually happened because he was voted for, not because people were having trouble counting.
Maybe thinking of it that way you'd understand what I meant by if 50 out of 180mil didn't vote.

[Guest rttocs77]

[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by Transtic Nerve [/i]
[B][/b]

Reganomics.... right.... the reason for the crash was a combined effect of alot of things, including the infamous Reganomics.
[/B][/QUOTE]

Ok, then explain to me how exactly any of Reagan's economic plans or proposals caused the crash?


[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by Transtic Nerve [/i]
[B][/b]
Trust you? Because you're a former president's son. You would know all about not getting into Yale and Andover. Have you heard Bush talk? Speak? Say anything remotely intelligent NOT written by someone else... have you been living under a rock? The guy has AVERAGE intelligence, if even that. You're not even out of high school.... what do you know about colleges and how they work.... everyone and everything has their price... Believe me, if I wanted to go to Harvard and I had 10 million dollars, you better bet they'll let me in.
[/B][/QUOTE]

You're right, I didn't get into Andover. I do know all about it. I also know a lot of people whose families gave tons to the school and they still didn't get in. Andover has one (if not the largest) of the largest endowments out of any school in the country, perhaps the world. If they don't find someone up to par with their standards, they won't accepts them either way. Harvard, maybe you could buy your way into, but not Yale.

Bush may not be the best public speaker, but public speaking doesn't determine a person's intelligence. Have you met him? Did you go to school with him? How can you comment on his intelligence when you have only heard exerpts of his public speeches and information thrown at you by the overtly democratic media.