Gaming Final Fantasy XII

[Dagger]

This game is pure love. <3

Granted, I just started playing it today. I landed in the sky city of whatchamacallit right before turning it off for the night. Anyway, I started trying to figure out why I was enjoying the beginning of FFXII so much, and to pinpoint the reason(s), I had to resort to the process of elimination.

It's not the story (stock empire/resistance blah blah blah, at least so far), and it's not the characters (although I can think of a lot of games that would be better off if they featured someone like Balthier). It's not the setting (pretty, but jumbled--why all the swords and medieval armor?). It's certainly not the translation, with its high fantasy-esque turns of phrase (was the Japanese script equally pretentious?). It's not the voice acting, although the cast is thankfully solid and not at all ear-charring to listen to. It's certainly not the uninspired music.

What sets FFXII apart from the others RPGs I've played is how well it flows, at least in these first few hours. They use typical game devices to make Vaan scurry around and meet people, but it's less of a hassle than usual. Once you start collecting party members and so forth, things go even more smoothly. As someone overly prone to getting bogged down, I appreciated this.

I guess it's kind of hard to explain. So I'll just pick one element of the game--the hunt sidequests--and contrast it with Xenosaga II, which had similarly organized sidequests called Good Samaritan campaigns. The basic process of completing these two sets of sidequests is almost identical. But while Xeno makes you constantly double back and go out of your way just to talk to the right people, FFXII's hunts seem to minimize backtracking... which makes them feel like a more integral part of the game's forward motion. And if that changes--well, I'll enjoy it while it lasts.

Also, the Gambit system is brilliant. It's so brilliant that it almost makes me sad. Even if developers are moving away from the traditional RPG party battle system, I hope some of them keep on using stuff like this.

I'm not as big a fan of the License board. On some level, it bothers me to have a character's strength be directly tied to his or her weapon--I mean, that's pretty much always true to a certain extent, but being forced to license weapons underscores the connection. It also seems wasteful to spent points on weapons and accessories that you might never end up buying or using. It's a great way to pick up spells, abilities and other enhancements. Equipment? Not so much.

Being spoiler-phobic, I've shied away from looking this up online, but here are a few questions (all related). What type(s) of weapons are best suited for each character? For that matter, where does one go to get better bullets and arrows? (I've been to every type of shop... maybe they aren't selling upgrades yet, or else I just overlooked it.) I'm mainly asking because I'm confused about Balthier. How much potential do guns have in this game? If he's already a fast character, I might try giving him a dagger or ninja sword instead. Bah, I need to look at his stats again. :animesigh

~Dagger~

[TheResplendent]

[QUOTE=Dagger]This game is pure love. <3

Granted, I just started playing it today. I landed in the sky city of whatchamacallit right before turning it off for the night. Anyway, I started trying to figure out why I was enjoying the beginning of FFXII so much, and to pinpoint the reason(s), I had to resort to the process of elimination.

It's not the story (stock empire/resistance blah blah blah, at least so far), and it's not the characters (although I can think of a lot of games that would be better off if they featured someone like Balthier). It's not the setting (pretty, but jumbled--why all the swords and medieval armor?). It's certainly not the translation, with its high fantasy-esque turns of phrase (was the Japanese script equally pretentious?). It's not the voice acting, although the cast is thankfully solid and not at all ear-charring to listen to. It's certainly not the uninspired music.

What sets FFXII apart from the others RPGs I've played is how well it flows, at least in these first few hours. They use typical game devices to make Vaan scurry around and meet people, but it's less of a hassle than usual. Once you start collecting party members and so forth, things go even more smoothly. As someone overly prone to getting bogged down, I appreciated this.

I guess it's kind of hard to explain. So I'll just pick one element of the game--the hunt sidequests--and contrast it with Xenosaga II, which had similarly organized sidequests called Good Samaritan campaigns. The basic process of completing these two sets of sidequests is almost identical. But while Xeno makes you constantly double back and go out of your way just to talk to the right people, FFXII's hunts seem to minimize backtracking... which makes them feel like a more integral part of the game's forward motion. And if that changes--well, I'll enjoy it while it lasts.

Also, the Gambit system is brilliant. It's so brilliant that it almost makes me sad. Even if developers are moving away from the traditional RPG party battle system, I hope some of them keep on using stuff like this.

I'm not as big a fan of the License board. On some level, it bothers me to have a character's strength be directly tied to his or her weapon--I mean, that's pretty much always true to a certain extent, but being forced to license weapons underscores the connection. It also seems wasteful to spent points on weapons and accessories that you might never end up buying or using. It's a great way to pick up spells, abilities and other enhancements. Equipment? Not so much.

Being spoiler-phobic, I've shied away from looking this up online, but here are a few questions (all related). What type(s) of weapons are best suited for each character? For that matter, where does one go to get better bullets and arrows? (I've been to every type of shop... maybe they aren't selling upgrades yet, or else I just overlooked it.) I'm mainly asking because I'm confused about Balthier. How much potential do guns have in this game? If he's already a fast character, I might try giving him a dagger or ninja sword instead. Bah, I need to look at his stats again. :animesigh

~Dagger~[/QUOTE]

[font=tahoma]
I'll answer your questions before I give my final opinion of the game after beating it.

Get very comfortable with onion bombs, shots, arrows, and bolts (depending on what weap you choose to use) because it is quite difficult to get alternative ammo =P. But most of them can be found through bazaar shopping, much like other rare items. I ended up using silence shot for Balthier for most of the game.

As for what weapons fit what character the best. This is what I have my chars set on:

[center]Vaan - Sword&Shield
Balthier - Guns or Poles
Fran - Spears
Basch - Knight Sword (will be a while bfore you can get your first knight sword though, before i used knight swords I had him on hammers/axes&shield)
Ashe - Sword&Shield
Penelo - Bow[/center]

I find these to be very beneficial all around, it grants 2 ranged allies and with the way my stats were set Basch, Vaan, and Ashe were damage dealing machines. Fran was my black mage/knight char as she is extremely fast in turn speed so an upclose melee weapon fit nicely since Bows tend to miss a lot (which would make her fast speed seem almost inconsequential). Feel free to use whatever you want for whoever really though, as no weapon really suits anyone better then others with the exception of how it fits their personality. That's pretty much how I went.

To answer your questions about Guns, they are useful because they ignore enemy defense and therefore do the same amount of damage against all enemies. Despite Balthier's exceptionally weak attack stats, the usage of Guns will even it out. I ended the game with Balth actually being my second strongest hitter next to Basch. I only had him on poles when I found out a certain something about him (big spoiler if I were to reveal it now) and therefore a melee weapon seemed to fit his personality as well. Wanting him to be different I started giving him poles. But overall, guns are his best fit.

[center]* * * * *[/center]

On to my final opinion.

Not only is this game a disgrace in the long run to the Final Fantasy name, but it is even a disgrace to role playing games as a whole. Being a huge FF fanboy, this comes as a shock to me to hear myself say this...but in the end the fact that FFXII was a Square game was the sole reason I kept playing in.

I'll discuss good points as well as bad so it dosn't seem like it's 100% unappealing, but the most important aspects of an RPG are skewed or missing here.

-The characters lack very heavily in back-story and depth, as it even seems no matter how far in the game you are, certain characters don't even seem to belong on this "journey". Relationships hardly have time to form and it ultimatley seems like your only playing as these characters for the sake of having characters to play as. In other words it's a necessity to have characters to play an RPG, but they might as well be Rabanastre Citizen #4 in the main character position as there is nothing outstanding about the majority of the cast.

-Take away all the player controlled parts of the game (running around, shopping, fighting, etc etc) and you have maybe a half hour of story. The cutscenes are nice, but hardly move things along satisfactory enough. It is easy to lose yourself in all the fighting and farming you will be doing because of how much time you spend doing it, eventually you realize that you've forgotten for a moment what's going on in the story. The progression of the storyline is inconsistent and too infrequent and there is a great amount of plot holes that are easily noticeable. Overall the story itself is lacking greatly in it's ability to captivate.

These are the biggest let downs as it concerns the continuation of the Final Fantasy legacy. The next parts will contain spoilers so they will be marked.

-Some words about the final boss: [spoiler]Vayne has done 2 things throughout the whole game. Talk and Stand. When he talks, he says barely anything noteworthy or important, and when he stands...well...he stands. He has done nothing outstanding other then kill his father for power. But what does he do with the power? He is only the heir to the empire that took over Dalmasca, he himself has made no mark on history nor is he memorable in any way. The final battle comes quickly and we are supposed to accept that Vayne is super powerful to the point where he is worthy of the title of "The Undying". We are to be satisfied with Nethecite having the power of making the antagonist more important then he actually is. In my eyes, you need to do a hell of a lot more throughout the progress of the game in order to be considered a decent candidate for final boss. Vayne also fits into the lack of depth in characters. Cid, is more memorable to me then Vayne was.[/spoiler]

-The Final Dungeon: [spoiler]It arrives out of nowhere with no previous references back to such a thing. Vayne made no plans, nothing at all. Everyone suddenly knows what it is and how to get there despite hardly knowing any facts about it other then what it's called and it's in the air. Explanations are like the story itself in this game, inconsistent, unsatisfying, and lacking. It's like they were rushing the writing of the story, and just through together some glue for the bonds rather then welding them. It's length is hardly that of what we have come to expect from a final dungeron as well. It's a door, a turn, a circular room with unending (and annoying) enemies that you don't even have to fight. Then after that, an elevator, a boss fight, then the final boss. Altogether you can go through it in less then 10 minutes, that first boss battle included.[/spoiler]

The game ended with hardly any anticipation for the end to come, the best way to describe how I feel about the game is that it's like part 1 of something that has no part 2.

But it isn't without it's merits. Though they are insignificant to the requirements for a succesful RPG, FFXII has the absolute best voice acting and script i've ever heard in an RPG. Everything about it to me is excellently done. The dialogue, the accents, the emotion, everything. Obviosly another great thing about it is it's graphics, the opening movie was more then enough to get me interested in playing through the game. It's a shame that desire was crushed not far into it.

I posted this earlier in this thread: [i]I also enjoy the initial seemingly simple battle system that later actually incorporates much complexity in mastering what to do in particular situations. This is something that turns a lot of people off to the game, but I can enjoy the added element of making some of the battles more exhilirating then a normal RPG battle would be. Mind you this does not mean I prefer this over traditional battle systems. I'm merely pointing out one of the changes that worked out well, unlike many others in the game.[/i]

Anyway, the game will ultimatley be a matter of opinion and preference...but I've heard enough people defend this game so blindly simply because it's a Final Fantasy. As I've said before, i'm a gigantic FF fanboy...but it dosn't make me blind to faults and fallacies.
[/font]

[Veritas]

[size=1][color=gray]BK, I agree with you 100%. The characters had the potential, but like they never formed them into fully 3D characters. They were just so 2D, with almost no relations between each other, no backround, and ultimately no heart. I think part of the reason why is because other than Cut-Scenes there is almost no dialogue. There was a severe lack of plot, or at least execution of the plot.[/color][/size]
[size=1][color=gray][/color][/size]
[size=1][color=gray]As far as the License board, I'm not a big fan. I like my characters to have some originality to them, almost like a class, even if I can change the class to something else, example FFX Sphere Grid, or FF Tactics Class Change. Just something that adds originality to the characters, like a particular weapon or something. I think that was anothing thing that made the characters less personable, they didn't have any real unique weapons, or abilities other than quickenings, and I didn't use them unless I was desperate, bored, finishing off a boss, or wanted to see them.[/color][/size]
[size=1][color=gray][/color][/size]
[size=1][color=gray]The game just felt rushed to me, although it took me 90 hours to finish, when I think back about those 90 hours and the majority of the time was spent walking, fighting and doing hunts. When I fought the final boss and the credits started rolling, I thought, Whaaaaat? That's it?........ There was no feeling of impending doom before the fight, like one more battle, one more to save the world. It just felt like a half finished game.[/color][/size]
[size=1][color=gray][/color][/size]
[size=1][color=gray]As you've already stated the voice acting was amazing. I think that was about the only thing that let me get a feel for the characters.[/color][/size]
[size=1][color=gray][/color][/size]
[size=1][color=gray]Anyways, I don't have much else to say that wouldn't be repeating what you've already said but yeah, like you I remain a FF fanboy. I just had higher expectations, especially since FF Tactics is probably my favorite FF.[/color][/size]

[Kimmeh]

Aha, a thread completely dedicated to Final Fantasy 12. Loving it. ^_^

Well, I got the game for Christmas, so needless to say, I'm not super far into the game... Or rather maybe I am and I just don't know it. Haha. I've got the entire party, and after meeting all the main characters, I have to say Balthier is by far one of my favorite Final Fantasy characters ever... Which is saying a lot, because I happen to be obsessed with Vincent Valentine, and Auron...

To anyone who is contemplating on whether buying the game or not, like I was before I got it for Christmas, get it. It's an amazing game. The graphics and the storyline are priceless. ^_^

[Kenshin DX]

[B][COLOR=Blue]I just picked up this game.The first hour and a half I just wanted too kill myself it was so boring. Not to mention the liscense system and gambits were complicated. After playing more though the battle system became second nature setting gambits was easy as well as using liscenes but it does take awhile to get used to. The characters are ok im not to far in but they really don't intrest me Balthier is cool but they hardly flesh him out. Like they did with the other characters. Ive noticed this game revolves around Politics and not action or religion. Its a good game i just hope the pace picks up soon. I also got the collectors edition if anyone has it are their any stuff worth watching on it?[/COLOR][/B]

[Dagger]

A few story/character comments now that I'm done...

Okay, I lied, it's actually a lot. But I should note that I enjoyed the game as a whole immensely, even if it was shorter and easier than I would have liked. The gameplay was tremendously fun throughout, and I liked playing with every single character (which is a first for me in the FF series). I wish I'd had more time to make my secondary party (Fran, Basch and Penelo) as strong as my first, but I wanted to finish before heading back to school.

[quote name='Veritas][size=1][color=gray]BK, I agree with you 100%. The characters had the potential, but like they never formed them into fully 3D characters. They were just so 2D, with almost no relations between each other, no backround, and ultimately no heart. [B]I think part of the reason why is because other than Cut-Scenes there is almost no dialogue.[/B] There was a severe lack of plot, or at least execution of the plot.[/color'][/size][/quote]
Bingo. The last FF game I played before this was VIII, so the difference was quite stark. This could have been easily remedied, though. There are two changes I would've made in terms of what happens when you enter a non-fighting environment.

First off, you should have the ability to make your on-screen avatar any character of your choosing (with certain characters being unavailable under specific circumstances--for instance, in the visit to the [spoiler]Viera[/spoiler] village, you would have to pick someone other than Fran). In locations like Rabanastre, key NPC dialogue should change in response who you've picked as your avatar (that is, people there would recognize Vaan but wouldn't know Balthier).

Second, while you're in these locations, the rest of the playable characters should be available to talk to (either scattered around, doing their own thing, or just standing there, depending on the expansiveness of the place in question). Giving you the option to talk to them there would go a long way toward establishing a personal connection with the characters.

I don't think the characters are any more 2-D than those in past FF games. Going back to FFVIII, since I still have it on the brain, you only really get to know two characters (Squall and Rinoa), and only one of those undergoes heavy character development (Squall). All of the other playable characters can pretty much be summed up in one sentence. In FFVII, the only people who get any significant character development are Cloud and Tifa.

The thing about FFXII, unlike in the past few FF games, the protagonist (Vaan) isn't the main character (Ashe). I applaud this--it's refreshing for the viewpoint character to be someone ordinary, and for the Chosen One to be someone else. The problem is that, due to the low number of cutscenes and almost complete lack of dialogue beyond the cutscenes, you never really come to see things from Vaan's point of view. It's more of an omniscient perspective, which distances the player from the characters.

They have rich histories with tons of potential for angst, doubt, and what have you. While I'm not advocating the emo-tization of the cast, the fact that their respective pasts are often revealed in one or two lines (Balthier: Hay guyz, [spoiler]I used to be a Judge[/spoiler]) forces you to guess at what they've gone through and how it's changed them. The graphics are lovely, but not so advanced that I can deduce exactly how torn Ashe feels just by squinting at her face.

So, yes, it would've been nice if we could have gotten into the characters' heads more. There were a lot of opportunities for this. Instead of just testing Ashe with a phantom of Rasler, the [spoiler]Occuria[/spoiler] should've done something like showing her [spoiler]an illusion of his death and tempting her to use the Nethicite to save him.[/spoiler] Then the player would be much more invested in her declaration that [spoiler]what's done is done, and even Nethicite doesn't have the power to alter the past.[/spoiler]

I bought into the bonds between all of the playable characters, so the writers must have been doing something right--I just felt that I was missing out on how they'd gotten to that point. I would've loved to see a scene of, say, the rest of the group jokingly ragging on Ashe, or her becoming quietly envious of the easy, playful dynamic between Vaan, Penelo and [spoiler]Larsa.[/spoiler] There were some great little bits of camaraderie in there--Fran and Balthier bumping fists, for instance.

So yeah. I wanted to see a lot more of the characters, but that's because I liked them. I guess I'd better buy a DS in time for Revenant Wings.

Now, the story. I don't think the story itself is problematic. Yeah, empires and resistances and saving the world are all overdone, but any FF plot can easily be reduced to something dull. Two things hamper the story here.

First, the juicy stuff--Ashelia's transformation into Ashe, Warrior Princess, Balthier [spoiler]the Judge[/spoiler], Fran [spoiler]leaving Eruyt Village and[/spoiler] eventually becoming his partner, Basch and [spoiler]Gabranth/Noah[/spoiler] going their separate ways--is all in the past.

Second, although [spoiler]Doctor Cid[/spoiler] makes a great & amusing sub-villain, the main villain is uninspired at best. One gets no sense of why he wants power (perhaps he's a passionate historian on the side?). Ultimately he's a plot device with nice hair and an ugly final form. The playable characters have no feelings of ambiguity toward him. There's not much urgency involved in defeating him because [spoiler]the Occuria[/spoiler] are much more powerful than him, anyway.

It should've gone something like this: [spoiler]Pharos --> Bahamut (defeat Vayne, who, before dying, asks Ashe to defeat the Occuria; defeat Venat--perhaps possessing Larsa or some other innocent) --> another dungeon, a trip into the past, a pilgrimage, I don't care what --> confronting the Occuria on behalf of humanity.[/spoiler] I can't swallow the idea that [spoiler]destroying the Sun-Cryst means destroying the Occuria's influence. If they have the power of gods, they can make another one.[/spoiler]

I agree that neither the story nor characters felt fully realized, and in another game this might have been a huge problem for me, but the gameplay was good enough to make up for it. Of course, it helped that I didn't hate any of the playable characters. Either way, it's a huge, huge step up from FFX.

Bring on XIII!

~Dagger~

[TheResplendent]

[QUOTE=Dagger]A few story/character comments now that I'm done...

Okay, I lied, it's actually a lot. But I should note that I enjoyed the game as a whole immensely, even if it was shorter and easier than I would have liked. The gameplay was tremendously fun throughout, and I liked playing with every single character (which is a first for me in the FF series). I wish I'd had more time to make my secondary party (Fran, Basch and Penelo) as strong as my first, but I wanted to finish before heading back to school.


Bingo. The last FF game I played before this was VIII, so the difference was quite stark. This could have been easily remedied, though. There are two changes I would've made in terms of what happens when you enter a non-fighting environment.

First off, you should have the ability to make your on-screen avatar any character of your choosing (with certain characters being unavailable under specific circumstances--for instance, in the visit to the [spoiler]Viera[/spoiler] village, you would have to pick someone other than Fran). In locations like Rabanastre, key NPC dialogue should change in response who you've picked as your avatar (that is, people there would recognize Vaan but wouldn't know Balthier).

Second, while you're in these locations, the rest of the playable characters should be available to talk to (either scattered around, doing their own thing, or just standing there, depending on the expansiveness of the place in question). Giving you the option to talk to them there would go a long way toward establishing a personal connection with the characters.

I don't think the characters are any more 2-D than those in past FF games. Going back to FFVIII, since I still have it on the brain, you only really get to know two characters (Squall and Rinoa), and only one of those undergoes heavy character development (Squall). All of the other playable characters can pretty much be summed up in one sentence. In FFVII, the only people who get any significant character development are Cloud and Tifa.

The thing about FFXII, unlike in the past few FF games, the protagonist (Vaan) isn't the main character (Ashe). I applaud this--it's refreshing for the viewpoint character to be someone ordinary, and for the Chosen One to be someone else. The problem is that, due to the low number of cutscenes and almost complete lack of dialogue beyond the cutscenes, you never really come to see things from Vaan's point of view. It's more of an omniscient perspective, which distances the player from the characters.

They have rich histories with tons of potential for angst, doubt, and what have you. While I'm not advocating the emo-tization of the cast, the fact that their respective pasts are often revealed in one or two lines (Balthier: Hay guyz, [spoiler]I used to be a Judge[/spoiler]) forces you to guess at what they've gone through and how it's changed them. The graphics are lovely, but not so advanced that I can deduce exactly how torn Ashe feels just by squinting at her face.

So, yes, it would've been nice if we could have gotten into the characters' heads more. There were a lot of opportunities for this. Instead of just testing Ashe with a phantom of Rasler, the [spoiler]Occuria[/spoiler] should've done something like showing her [spoiler]an illusion of his death and tempting her to use the Nethicite to save him.[/spoiler] Then the player would be much more invested in her declaration that [spoiler]what's done is done, and even Nethicite doesn't have the power to alter the past.[/spoiler]

I bought into the bonds between all of the playable characters, so the writers must have been doing something right--I just felt that I was missing out on how they'd gotten to that point. I would've loved to see a scene of, say, the rest of the group jokingly ragging on Ashe, or her becoming quietly envious of the easy, playful dynamic between Vaan, Penelo and [spoiler]Larsa.[/spoiler] There were some great little bits of camaraderie in there--Fran and Balthier bumping fists, for instance.

So yeah. I wanted to see a lot more of the characters, but that's because I liked them. I guess I'd better buy a DS in time for Revenant Wings.

Now, the story. I don't think the story itself is problematic. Yeah, empires and resistances and saving the world are all overdone, but any FF plot can easily be reduced to something dull. Two things hamper the story here.

First, the juicy stuff--Ashelia's transformation into Ashe, Warrior Princess, Balthier [spoiler]the Judge[/spoiler], Fran [spoiler]leaving Eruyt Village and[/spoiler] eventually becoming his partner, Basch and [spoiler]Gabranth/Noah[/spoiler] going their separate ways--is all in the past.

Second, although [spoiler]Doctor Cid[/spoiler] makes a great & amusing sub-villain, the main villain is uninspired at best. One gets no sense of why he wants power (perhaps he's a passionate historian on the side?). Ultimately he's a plot device with nice hair and an ugly final form. The playable characters have no feelings of ambiguity toward him. There's not much urgency involved in defeating him because [spoiler]the Occuria[/spoiler] are much more powerful than him, anyway.

It should've gone something like this: [spoiler]Pharos --> Bahamut (defeat Vayne, who, before dying, asks Ashe to defeat the Occuria; defeat Venat--perhaps possessing Larsa or some other innocent) --> another dungeon, a trip into the past, a pilgrimage, I don't care what --> confronting the Occuria on behalf of humanity.[/spoiler] I can't swallow the idea that [spoiler]destroying the Sun-Cryst means destroying the Occuria's influence. If they have the power of gods, they can make another one.[/spoiler]

I agree that neither the story nor characters felt fully realized, and in another game this might have been a huge problem for me, but the gameplay was good enough to make up for it. Of course, it helped that I didn't hate any of the playable characters. Either way, it's a huge, huge step up from FFX.

Bring on XIII!

~Dagger~[/QUOTE]


[font=tahoma]Despite thinking you are far too generous in your opinions, you really have captured the true problem with the game. Bravo for grasping it so well that you've pinpointed the exact points of the story that needed more elaboration (mainly the suggestions toward how the final sequence should have went, as well as the larger roles particular characters should have played). Between my explanation and yours I believe that sums up FFXII more then well enough.

Overall, the story is unspiring, certainly not "epic" in any form, and just plain lacking. The gameplay was decent and kept the game alive for many of us throughout the long and lost hours.

The characters were great only in design, and just as lacking as the story was with the exception of what it allows the imagination to elaborate on itself (which is a lot). I wouldn't like to get too used to this as a new trend despite loving what my versatile imagination can conjure in many cases, it's part of the game's protocol to offer characters that we can grow to love, hate, and relate to as opposed to characters we can constantly form in the image we see from faint hints. The character's role contribute greatly to the story and the lack of dimension in them seems to let the creativity of the developers falter, which in the long run leaves us desiring too much to want to do the job for every game. So every once in a while, it's fine as long as the story is compatible (which FFXII's is not, despite having potential, it simply has no followthrough), but hopefully this will not persist to an unwanted level. [/font]

[Veritas]

[QUOTE=Dagger]A few story/character comments now that I'm done...

Okay, I lied, it's actually a lot. But I should note that I enjoyed the game as a whole immensely, even if it was shorter and easier than I would have liked. The gameplay was tremendously fun throughout, and I liked playing with every single character (which is a first for me in the FF series). I wish I'd had more time to make my secondary party (Fran, Basch and Penelo) as strong as my first, but I wanted to finish before heading back to school. [/QUOTE][size=1]My party was pretty well rounded, I'd level up one set, then I'd switch all three characters to the ones in reserve. So I ended up with Ashe, Vaan and Fran in my first party and Basch, Balthier and Peneloin my second. Though even keeping them at the same level I'd say my first party was stronger. One thing I need to do is go back and all the hunts, I'd like to find some of the stronger weapons, and get all the Espers.[/size]

[QUOTE=Dagger]Bingo. The last FF game I played before this was VIII, so the difference was quite stark. This could have been easily remedied, though. There are two changes I would've made in terms of what happens when you enter a non-fighting environment.

First off, you should have the ability to make your on-screen avatar any character of your choosing (with certain characters being unavailable under specific circumstances--for instance, in the visit to the [spoiler]Viera[/spoiler] village, you would have to pick someone other than Fran). In locations like Rabanastre, key NPC dialogue should change in response who you've picked as your avatar (that is, people there would recognize Vaan but wouldn't know Balthier).

Second, while you're in these locations, the rest of the playable characters should be available to talk to (either scattered around, doing their own thing, or just standing there, depending on the expansiveness of the place in question). Giving you the option to talk to them there would go a long way toward establishing a personal connection with the characters.[/QUOTE][size=1]Chrono Cross comes to mind as far as the character switching. You can only recruit certain people by talking to them with a certain character if I remember right, and peoples resposes to change according to if they knew the character or other reasons. [/size]
[size=1] [/size]
[size=1]I think that it added a slight amount of depth to the game, like they could have had it that someone in Rabanastre has a rare item or something, but they wouldn't give it to just anyone, it would have to be someone they trusted example Vaan or Penelo.[/size]
[size=1] [/size]
[size=1]I also think FFX is a good example about having the other characters around and being able to talk to them, though it's not all the time, another example is Star Ocean: The Second story and Radiata Stories.[/size]

[quote name='Dagger']I don't think the characters are any more 2-D than those in past FF games. Going back to FFVIII, since I still have it on the brain, you only really get to know two characters (Squall and Rinoa), and only one of those undergoes heavy character development (Squall). All of the other playable characters can pretty much be summed up in one sentence. In FFVII, the only people who get any significant character development are Cloud and Tifa. [/quote][size=1]True the supporting roles didn't have as much development, but they had more interaction with the other characters and it gave them a greater sense of being 3D in my opinion.[/size]

[QUOTE=Dagger]The thing about FFXII, unlike in the past few FF games, the protagonist (Vaan) isn't the main character (Ashe). I applaud this--it's refreshing for the viewpoint character to be someone ordinary, and for the Chosen One to be someone else. The problem is that, due to the low number of cutscenes and almost complete lack of dialogue beyond the cutscenes, you never really come to see things from Vaan's point of view. It's more of an omniscient perspective, which distances the player from the characters.

They have rich histories with tons of potential for angst, doubt, and what have you. While I'm not advocating the emo-tization of the cast, the fact that their respective pasts are often revealed in one or two lines (Balthier: Hay guyz, [spoiler]I used to be a Judge[/spoiler]) forces you to guess at what they've gone through and how it's changed them. The graphics are lovely, but not so advanced that I can deduce exactly how torn Ashe feels just by squinting at her face.[/QUOTE][size=1]I think one of their flaws here is I get the impression that they almost tried to make all the characters a main character, each one getting sucked into a larger plot for various reasons. You're view point is that of Vaans and the majority of the events have to do with Ashe but I don't consider her more or less signifigant than any of the other characters. Probably just me though o_O.[/size]
[size=1] [/size]
[size=1]I think flashbacks would have helped alot with the character histories. Even if it is 5 minute short tiny flashback with a bit more dialogue whould help the characters backrounds. Just to help the player understand where the character is coming from[/size].

[QUOTE=Dagger]I bought into the bonds between all of the playable characters, so the writers must have been doing something right--I just felt that I was missing out on how they'd gotten to that point. I would've loved to see a scene of, say, the rest of the group jokingly ragging on Ashe, or her becoming quietly envious of the easy, playful dynamic between Vaan, Penelo and [spoiler]Larsa.[/spoiler] There were some great little bits of camaraderie in there--Fran and Balthier bumping fists, for instance.

So yeah. I wanted to see a lot more of the characters, but that's because I liked them. I guess I'd better buy a DS in time for Revenant Wings.[/QUOTE][size=1]You're right I bought into the bonds between the characters too, I just wish I could have seen them forming, or strenghtening. It's just like they were all of a sudden there, It's just like there are gaps. [spoiler]When you get to the Pharos and Bathier tells Vaan if anything happens to him to take the ship but he'd teach him how to fly it one day. Next thing I know I'm leaving the Bahamut and Vaan can fly an Airship. Not to mention Penelo who can magically navigate.[/spoiler]It's just like wait did I miss something, like fall asleep during a cutscene.[/size]
[size=1] [/size]
[size=1]I'm gonna be there with you getting a DS, I'm a sucker for sequels. [/size]

[QUOTE=Dagger]Now, the story. I don't think the story itself is problematic. Yeah, empires and resistances and saving the world are all overdone, but any FF plot can easily be reduced to something dull. Two things hamper the story here.

First, the juicy stuff--Ashelia's transformation into Ashe, Warrior Princess, Balthier [spoiler]the Judge[/spoiler], Fran [spoiler]leaving Eruyt Village and[/spoiler] eventually becoming his partner, Basch and [spoiler]Gabranth/Noah[/spoiler] going their separate ways--is all in the past.

Second, although [spoiler]Doctor Cid[/spoiler] makes a great & amusing sub-villain, the main villain is uninspired at best. One gets no sense of why he wants power (perhaps he's a passionate historian on the side?). Ultimately he's a plot device with nice hair and an ugly final form. The playable characters have no feelings of ambiguity toward him. There's not much urgency involved in defeating him because [spoiler]the Occuria[/spoiler] are much more powerful than him, anyway. [/QUOTE][size=1]Again the use of flashbacks would have helped the juicy stuff, if I wanted to hear about it I'd close my eyes, I just would like a little visual stimulations to go along with what you're saying. [/size]
[size=1] [/size]
[size=1]I think they should have definately twisted the plot with Vayne kinda like in FFVIII with Edea. It would have made the game much more interesting. But then again that is kinda expected, so they kinda did the unexpected, caught people off guard just not in the way people are used to.[/size]

[QUOTE=Dagger]It should've gone something like this: [spoiler]Pharos --> Bahamut (defeat Vayne, who, before dying, asks Ashe to defeat the Occuria; defeat Venat--perhaps possessing Larsa or some other innocent) --> another dungeon, a trip into the past, a pilgrimage, I don't care what --> confronting the Occuria on behalf of humanity.[/spoiler] I can't swallow the idea that [spoiler]destroying the Sun-Cryst means destroying the Occuria's influence. If they have the power of gods, they can make another one.[/spoiler]

I agree that neither the story nor characters felt fully realized, and in another game this might have been a huge problem for me, but the gameplay was good enough to make up for it. Of course, it helped that I didn't hate any of the playable characters. Either way, it's a huge, huge step up from FFX.

Bring on XIII!

~Dagger~ [/QUOTE][size=1]Yeah I like your story line a little bit better. I don't know it just seems like the recent Final Fantasy's end bosses are too easy. Anyways I'll shut up now since I wrote a comment to basically everything you said, what can I say it's a friday night, I'm at home, and very bored to boot. But you summed the game up quite nicely though and I agree with you, as I like to put it the game had about as much character depth as a hack and slash game, well maybe a little more than that.[/size]

[Gavin]

[SIZE=1]Interesting, most interesting.

Well seeing as today [23rd] was both XII's PAL release and my birthday I was fortunate enough to get the game. So far I'm pretty impressed although the battle system drove me nuts for the first hour as did one particular hunting session. I'll try to give a more thorough response tomorrow after some sleep and some more play. [/SIZE]

[James]

[font=arial]I just bought this game yesterday so I'm still ridiculously early on [spoiler]haven't yet broken into the palace, for example[/spoiler]. But I'm loving it so far, although there are still a few elements that I need to get used to.

I don't think I'll post my thoughts just yet, as it's so early in the game. I will say two things though. One, I am [i]loving[/i] the battle system. I still don't fully understand it (obviously), but I love where it's going. Fantastic stuff. I really hope this sets a new standard for Final Fantasy games.

And two...the voice acting! I was quite surprised at how significantly Square Enix has improved both the dialogue and the voice acting in XII; it is [i]so[/i] much better than FFX. I rarely want to block out a character's voice, which is one of the highest compliments I can give for a game (especially as I'm not a huge fan of voice acting in general with RPGs).

Also, the general presentation is absolutely superb. The on-screen indicators, the map, the warning tones...everything is just so thoughtfully presented. The way the map includes icons/explanations and "x marks the spot" points is wonderful. It just seems that there was so much more thought put into this game than was put into FFX.

I do have one early question though (and this may be covered in later tutorials anyway):

[spoiler]With battles...does it matter how much I run around and such? I mean, does it make any difference to the battle? If I'm further from an opponent or if I'm attacking from a certain side...does the game recognise that? I assume some later enemies might make more use of the 3D battle environment, but it hasn't seem to have made a tangible difference thusfar.[/spoiler][/font]

[TheResplendent]

[QUOTE=James][font=arial]
I do have one early question though (and this may be covered in later tutorials anyway):

[spoiler]With battles...does it matter how much I run around and such? I mean, does it make any difference to the battle? If I'm further from an opponent or if I'm attacking from a certain side...does the game recognise that? I assume some later enemies might make more use of the 3D battle environment, but it hasn't seem to have made a tangible difference thusfar.[/spoiler][/font][/QUOTE]

[font=tahoma]Well the obvious is that if your a certain distance, you won't be able to hit the enemy. But position around the enemy does matter when it comes to the enemy's attacks. Some have attacks that can hit behind them, on their sides, all around, and every enemy obviously can attack anything infront of them. So if you are attacking a certain enemy that has no method of attacking any of your party unless they are infront, you can avoid harm mostly by standing behind it until it turns around and refocuses it's aggro.

Other then that, it makes no different in terms of damage you deal out. Taking advantage of the 3D environment will be essential later on, whether it's trying to escape an area-hitting magick attack or trying to buy yourself time or trying to lure it after you. Other than traps, your surroundings don't really play a big part of a battle unless your hiding behind a mountain or trying to shoot/cast from afar (i.e from one side of a cliff to the other). The game might glitch up every now and then though and you'll find that an enemy will get stuck between things, or just get stuck in a narrow path and can't get through. [/font]

[Dagger]

^^ What he said.

You can usually let targeting gambits take care of closing the distance--you shouldn't have to worry about running around behind a regular enemy. With a short-range character, backing up after each strike won't do anything to keep you safe.

What I would suggest, though, is setting up a character with a long-range weapon as your party leader. When controlled solely by gambits, a long-range character will still stay a little farther back, but he or she may not go far enough away to avoid attacks. When you're controlling his movements, you can creep back to the maximum length of his range, and it offers added protection as well as giving you a much better perspective on even minor battles (in my opinion). This is useful during ordinary battles as well as boss fights, particularly since there are a whole lot of enemies that specifically target the party leader.

If you've just come into a new area, and the enemies are suddenly much harder, running around (and particularly using the run away command for short periods) is useful in that it lets you control how many enemies you take on at once and so forth.

Anyway, I'm glad you're enjoying it! :catgirl:

~Dagger~

[Zidargh]

Well I recieved the game on Saturday and I'm now about 7 hours in. [spoiler]I'm still in Rabanastre, have done two hunts and need to meet Balthier at the Aerodrome,[/spoiler] so I decided to leave it there.

As such, and I'm not sure whether it's due to the lack of anti-aliasing for example, or me just not being able to focus very well, but it's not completely drawing me in. I mean it's fun, and by all means I love the FF series, but I was just wondering if I will begin to get sucked into it after a while. If anyone could answer that, it'd be much appreciated.

Please refrain from completely bitching about it though, as I don't want to be disappointed, lol. I guess it's what you make of it. And by all means, it could just be because I was very tired this weekend.

[Sandy]

I bought the game on Friday, and I have a hard time letting it go out of my hands. Clocking over 30 hours now, but I will hold my opinions about it until I'm finished. *fears the spoilers he has been dodging for a year now*

There's just one thing I'm absolutely certain of: this is the friggin' [I]best[/I] game I have ever played. Let's see if that opinion holds to the end.

[James]

[font=arial]Geeze, I am amazed at how you guys can do hours in one sitting! Haha. I'm still only about three hours in...I've had a couple of small doses. I have just acquired Balthier and Fran and I've just recently learned about Gambits for the first time.

Everything that's been said here about Gambits is true and then some; these things are fantastic! They work so well with the more "freestyle" battle system. Obviously having only just discovered them I still have plenty to see...but I am [i]loving[/i] this system already. I am really going to enjoy fiddling with character stats and such as the game progresses, I'm sure.

So far, so good.[/font]

[Juke Box Hero]

[QUOTE=Zidargh]Well I recieved the game on Saturday and I'm now about 7 hours in. [spoiler]I'm still in Rabanastre, have done two hunts and need to meet Balthier at the Aerodrome,[/spoiler] so I decided to leave it there.

As such, and I'm not sure whether it's due to the lack of anti-aliasing for example, or me just not being able to focus very well, but it's not completely drawing me in. I mean it's fun, and by all means I love the FF series, but I was just wondering if I will begin to get sucked into it after a while. If anyone could answer that, it'd be much appreciated.

Please refrain from completely bitching about it though, as I don't want to be disappointed, lol. I guess it's what you make of it. And by all means, it could just be because I was very tired this weekend.[/QUOTE]


After you get past the 15 or 16 hour mark of story progression, it will grab you up like no other. Hang with it for a bit longer man.

[Gavin]

[SIZE=1]Alright gone a bit further into the game, just clocked up over seventeen hours at this stage and [spoiler]just into the Tomb of Raithwall for the Dawn Shard[/spoiler] and I have to say while I'm still pretty impressed with the game over all, especially the Gambit system, a few things remaining irritating:

[B]Vaan[/B]
I really don't know what perverse pleasure came out of making Vaan so bloody stupid but it really does bug the hell out of me. I mean it seems to be the FF thing to have a main protagonist character that is a young, angry, near androgynous male with not a brain cell in his head. Please Square-Enix come up with something original.

I swear that boy opens his mouth and trouble follows, in [spoiler]Bhujerba he's told not to mention Basch's name and the first bloody person he encounters, who just happens to be a disguised Imperial prince, he drops Basch's name straight out.[/spoiler] If it weren't for the fact he's part of my main party, I'd happily exile the gobshite for good.

[b]Character Speech[/b]
Dagger already brought this one up, but seriously who wrote the script for some of the main characters, the pretentiousness simply drips from their every word.[/SIZE]

[Dagger]

I didn't mind Vaan particularly--as far as I recall, [spoiler]any slip-ups on his part never really got the party into trouble.[/spoiler] Maybe he was able to magically sense [spoiler]Larsa's extreme awesomeness & trustworthiness.[/spoiler] :animesmil The best part by far, though, is that he never [spoiler]develops romantic designs on Ashe.[/spoiler]

If I had to finger a party member as "the angry one," it would most definitely not be Vaan, but that's another story. He's not the protagonist, either--but that's also another story.

~Dagger~

[James]

[font=arial]Okay so I played just a [i]bit[/i] more two nights ago (didn't play at all last night) and I actually died, haha. I was exploring the area outside the dungeon when the party is arrested (and where you acquire Basch as a guest). I have to say though...it wasn't frustrating. Some of these dungeon crawling areas in past FF games have really annoyed me, but I had no problems with XII.

Now that I'm using the Gambit system more and experimenting with changing party leaders and such, it's all becoming a lot more engaging. The story does start a bit slow but nevertheless I'm finding it enjoyable. It certainly doesn't grip you immediately like Final Fantasy VII did, but I can sense a strong progression already...it's all moving in the right direction and I'm looking forward to the twists and turns.[/font]

[Guest XsimplencleanO]

lol i did that same exact thing, but luckily i saved right before, and i didnt have to do much ^.^ anways, this game is taking forever to finish!!!
[color=red][size=1]XsimplenclenO, here at Otakuboards, there is a strong emphasize on posting quality and conversation. Try to expand your post a bit, otherwise it'll be counted as spam and gets deleted. I encourage you to read the rules and FAQs. If you have any questions, pm me or any other moderator. ~Phenom~[/size][/color]

[Inuyasha Fandom]

I love final fantasy 12, but it sucks too......


First off... Graphics.... SWEET

second. No random Battles...Okay...

Third... The battle system... I HATE IT WITH A PASSION

fourth.. the gambits....what the hell is this for?

and fith and final scrore from me:

the storyline:


Exellent!!!! though it does seem to drag sometimes

[only1specialed]

[COLOR=DarkRed][SIZE=2][FONT=Verdana]you know whats funny. i bought this game about 3 weeks ago and its still in its package. i want to play it but for some reason something about it just stops me from playing. i hear about all the great things about this game and some of the crappy stuff. but overall i cant seem to pull myself to play. i guess my question is. is this game very time consuming cause i dont really have the time to be playing long games like i used to.[/FONT][/SIZE][/COLOR]

[Sandy]

[quote name='only1specialed][COLOR=DarkRed][SIZE=2][FONT=Verdana]is this game very time consuming cause i dont really have the time to be playing long games like i used to.[/FONT][/SIZE'][/COLOR][/quote]

It [I]can[/I] be extremely time-consuming, or then you can fly through it with the aid of Quickenings and focusing only on three of the six characters. Your choice.

My choice was to do everything I can in the game (without using a guide), so now I'm clocking well over 60 hours (with my characters all in level 41), and I don't think I'm even near the end... XP

[James]

[quote]second. No random Battles...Okay...

Third... The battle system... I HATE IT WITH A PASSION

fourth.. the gambits....what the hell is this for?[/quote]

[font=arial]You don't like the lack of random battles? I really thought that random battles were one of the most annoying aspect of the previous games (especially the frequency with which they would occur at times - sometimes you couldn't walk one single step without getting dragged into a repetitive battle).

The battle system will largely come down to personal opinion, but have you played very far into the game? Gambits are brilliant. They will end up being a necessary (or at least, important) part of your strategy. They make the battle system easier in many ways, rather than forcing the player to constantly micro-manage.[/font]

[Engel]

[color=seagreen][size=1]While the Gambit system is extremely useful, it is semi-annoying spending License points on Gambit slots. It would be much nicer if they came along in level increments or something of the sort.

Right now, I'm at the Bur-Omisace Mt. and leveling up. Vaan is 29, Basch is 29, and Fran is 25, with Balthier at 23. I have to choose between lveling Balthier or Fran. right now. I I think I'm leaning more towards Balthier. Any thoughts on that?

Also, I really hope I get a new [spoiler] esper soon.I mean, Belias is pretty neat, but I heard I can get Adrammelech soon, and Adrammelech was my favorite from FFTA, and his design is supposed to be the same. Meh.[/spoiler]. That would be incredibly nice.[/color][/size]