Should it be allowed?!

[Queen Asuka]

[color=hotpink][size=1]Okay, this is just something that's been bothering me since the censor lift on the Adventure Arena.

Okay, I'm see alot of 16+, 18+, and R-rated RPGs getting started, alot of them containing violence, sex, etc. What bothers me is that alot of these RPGs are started by people who are only 12-14, some probably younger than that. This is REALLY bothering me.

Of course, if you made a restriction on it, some people might start lying about their age and such, but I really am bothered by these seemingly 12-year olds in their RPGs doing the sex and violence thing. Maybe they are desensitized and that is the way of the world nowadays, but I'm thinking perhaps the Adventure Arena moderators should put some sort of check on that and restrict it a bit.

Maybe it's just me or has anyone else thought the same thing?[/color][/size]

[Dagger]

The way I see it, if people demonstrate (through both their writing and general comportment) that they possess the presence of mind to participate in and contribute to a discussion about violence or sex, then they should be permitted to create RPGs which contain R-rated content. Maturity isn't something that can be measured solely by one's age.

I agree with you, Asuka--something ought to be done about this. However, I'd rather leave it up to the moderators' discretion than force someone to develop a more rigid set of rules. The kind of RPG you mentioned usually doesn't have the most amazing post quality as it is, which might by itself merit some kind of warning.

~Dagger~

[Kyo no Ryu]

well, I personally am 12. I started a 12 plus RPG for violence, and I do not enter sex-related RPGs. Personally I think it should be allowed and if an RPG starter is under that age then, well, long as there not spamming who gives? Tch, theyve probably seen worse in manga.

[Baron Samedi]

I agree with what you're saying Asuka.. despite my mere 14 years of age. But, on the other hand- is there any right to discriminate against younger people who are mature, or know about these facets of society already? If they already are aware of these things, and can contribute... then they obviously have been 'spoiled' and it matters not. I think 12 is too young. 13 and 14 too maybe. But it comes down to the person. Discrimination on age isn't a very good thing.

Personally- the age notes should be removed for a ratings system:
1- low level violence/coarse language
2-Sex/drug references, low-level language and violence
3- medium language and violence
4- medium lnaguage and violence and low-level sex referrals
5- high violence, hich languag, medium sex
6 High language, violence and sex
7 Explicit language, sex and violence.

This would be more effective, but again it comes down to each persons individual discretion on such matters.

You can't effectivley block people on age over the Net. It isn't that hard to lie and cheat, you know. For all you know, I could be 35, not 14. But I am 14, don't worry. ~_^

Basically, these things aren't our responsibility. If they choose to enter into such things, it is their problem, not ours.

[James]

[color=#707875]It's a very difficult line to walk. The truth is that we've always allowed people to make "mature" RPGs -- and many have in the past. I doubt that most who do are 18 years or older.

So, it's very difficult. I don't think we can restrict ages because that just wouldn't work. It's something nearly impossible to verify for many people. I've seen people post on here who are in their 20s, but who post as though they're 12. It's really hard to decide.

The main thing is to ensure that people post warnings about the kind of content they're including, so that people who don't want to see that kind of content won't see it.

This is no different to fan fiction or any other type of creative medium; I want to allow people to have freedom in what they write, within reason (as in, I don't want them to begin abusing or insulting other people or something).[/color]

[Patronus]

[size=1][color=006699]Most of the RPG makers who are twelve and under, and who make mature-contented RPGs don't have the capacity to make it a responsible RPG.. or at least in my line of sight.[/color][/size]

[Solo Tremaine]

[COLOR=#503F86]It's up to them to join and make the RPGs anyway- in the same way we can't stop people from posting about anime series or games that they shouldn't be playing, we can't really stop anyone from signing up for them. It's the responsibility of the applicant to know what they should or shouldn't be doing.[/COLOR]

[Semjaza]

This would be near impossible to enforce on any level anyway. What would you just the age of someone by? The age they posted that could very easily be false? The quality of their posts? James's comment already proved that means nothing in terms of age, really.

All you can do is the same thing the mods in there have been doing well anyway. Going through the RPGs and getting rid of the ones that just shouldn't be there.

Even if there was some hack that only enabled the no-censor feature for only certain age groups, people could easily get around it by changing their birthdate. A lot of people don't even put their birth year in there.

This no-censor thing is a novelty right now. Everyone and their brother is going to feel some need to create an RPG (some seemingly created for the single reason of letting people swear and be overly violent, which I agree is lame). Once that novelty wears off, the place will calm down and even out.

So really, that's all that can be said. Totally removing it has just as many drawbacks in my opinion. Anyone "mature" enough to handle all of it most likely won't fill their RPG with sentences where every other word is cursing anyway. If the younger members cannot handle it, their RPG won't work out and will thus be closed by the mods that work in there.

In any case, for me personally... Yes, I am a mod. Yes, I'm supposed to keep this place sorted out and whatever else. But I'm not a babysitter. What these kids do is not my problem, as long as it falls within the rules.

[Dan Rugh]

I was just talking to Arcadia about this subject last night on AIM.

I rarely ever go into the Adventure Arena, but when I did last night I saw an abundance of these types of threads. The one at the top of the forum was the one started by "the 12-year old". It's completely ridiculous that there is even a warning if the people who aren't supposed to see it are the ones making the threads.

[Transtic Nerve]

I say we just get rid of the whole crappy forum and then everything will be solved.... of course I've been saying that for years... literally lol.

[Kei]

[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by Transtic Nerve [/i]
[B]I say we just get rid of the whole crappy forum and then everything will be solved.... [/B][/QUOTE]

[color=darkblue]Save for the inevitable riot...

As everyone has said, I can understand the viewpoint in a certain way, but there's really no way to moderate Adventure Arena in that way.

Like James said, there's been many a person in their 20s that posts like they're a pre-teen, so rooting out who's what age would be a difficult (and tedious) task.

I'll have to follow the flock and say that as long as they're mature enough to keep the RPG up and decent enough, everything should be peachy.[/color]

[Queen Asuka]

[color=hotpink][size=1]Yeah, I thought about all of those angles before I posted this thread, but I just had to get it off of my chest and see what everyone else was thinking about the whole situation.

Maybe it's just me being overly-moral, but I don't like to see some 12-year old posting as if she's 20 with a ton of sexual experience. But of course, the way kids are nowadays, she probably has more than me.

[I AM HAVING A HEART ATTACK. MY SISTER WAS IN A CAR WRECK!][/color][/size]

[terra]

Queen Asuka, my God, I really really hope your sister was all right and everything.


[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by Transtic Nerve [/i]
[B]I say we just get rid of the whole crappy forum and then everything will be solved....[/B][/QUOTE]
TRAVESTY.

Anyway, I've been thinking about this as well, and haven't really come up with any solid opinions. Like others have been saying, the maturity of the posts doesn't depend on the age of the poster. The idea of a 12-year-old writing a sex scene in an RPG disturbs me as well ... [strike]but if she can write a [i]good[/i] sex scene then why stop her?[/strike] But I really can't think of any good way to preclude them from it.

[Baron Samedi]

Why don't you create an official ratings system.. which people can do themselves, or a moderator can upgrade/downgrade depending on the RPG? A number system [as explained in my previous post] would be a much easier way to do it. Age shouldn't be a factor [despite how shocking some of their knowledge is for 12!], however a warning, or number system would be more effective.

To my mind, anyway.

[Muad'Dib]

This is gonna sound stupid, but most kids who are prer-teen these days have already seen plenty of R-rated material on TV or movies. I myself am only 13, and believe me... I've seen plenty of R-rated movies. And saying that, it doesn't make much sense to keep a person from posting on what they've seen already. But that's just one point of view.

You could argue that there are a lot of kids out there who havn't seen any of that stuff. Either volontary or their parents kept them from expeinceing such things. And maybe they're just here so they can be a part of it. Wich would be pretty perverted.

Anyway, I guess I'm saying, it depends on the person... wich I guess is what you guys have been saying the whole time.

Oh, one more thing... [color=red]Perverts, stay OUT![/color]

thanks for your time ^^

[Arcadia]

[size=1][color=maroon]Well, here's my take on it. Seems to me that Semjaza's got a point - I'm definitely not anybody's mother, and I'm not about to tell any 12 year old what he/she should and should not post or read, based on his/her age. And while I do find it completely disturbing that some of the things going up in the Adventure Arena specifically are a little more graphic than [i]I'd[/i] care to write or read, as long as there is some sort of warning on it, I'm not going to touch it. Just because I don't like it doesn't mean other people can't. Freedom of speech, freedom of the press, whichever you like.

As for the rating systems.. I don't particularly like the 13+, 18+, etc. ratings because as Dagger pointed out, a person's age doesn't neccessarily have to do with their maturity (although we have no real way to control that [i]anyway.[/i] Are we going to ban them because of their age?). Dagger herself is a great example - even though she's a good few years younger than me, she's displayed her of intelligence and sophistication over and over again, and sometimes I'm almost positive she acts more mature than I do. I'd much prefer to see a "Mature" rating, and then perhaps a quick explanation of what that refers to at the start of the thread, so people know what they're getting into.

I think the novelty of being able to post lots of sex and gore and swear constantly like a sailor is eventually going to die down, as well. Until then, I'll just continue to wear my rose-colored glasses, thank you.[/color][/size]

[The Harlequin]

[font=gothic][color=indigo]Well, I suppose I'd better have a little spin at this.

Firstly. I'm 16. And I'm the catagory moderator. So if [i]I[/i] can't read the rpgs, we may have something of a problem. Of course, I'm sure several of you are aware of my propensity for not acting my age (in which direction I'll leave to the discretion of this myriad collection of individuals, who I'm sure in their collective wisdom will hash out something I can selectively like enough to agree with), so obviously I don't consider it a problem.


The other point I'd like to make is this. The ratings aren't a means of forbidding anyone anything. They're merely a guide for people who might prefer to avoid certain aspects of the writing. It doesn't really matter with the rating on the rpg is "R", or "18+", or "Coarse language, violence, sexual explicity and rabid bonsai" or whatever else people seem to come up with for whatever reason, the point is that anybody reading the title probably has a fair idea of what they do or don't want to read, and I'm sure they're intelligent enough that if they don't want to read something sounding like your typical Z grade slasher movie or whatever, "R" probably isn't for them. If not, then they can press back fairly quickly. I'm sure the text won't leap of the page and vivisect them.

Furthermore on codified ratings, as I'm sure several people have mentioned already, they are based far too much on personal discretion, and there would have to be a separate rating system for each set of iniquities, just to make things clear. There are, for some reason, people who'll happily write about removing someone's achilles tendons with a cheesegrater, but wouldn't swear if their life depended on it, to use that particular tired old cliche. Is tired old cliche one? Anyway, if we were going to codify ratings, we'd probably have to give it a general maturity level rating (NB: Not age rating, though they may end up reflecting that), along with some kind of qualifier (S) for Sexual activity, (L) for language etc. It wouldn't take too long to hash something out, but I'm not reading every rpg to make sure it's content reflects the title, and I certainly wouldn't expect Terra and Arcadia to either.

So, it seems to me the best way to deal with this is that if a member is participating in an rpg, and something they believe inappropriate, or something they would prefer not to read, comes up, they can PM the creator of the rpg about it. If the creator of the rpg believes it is too extreme, they can PM myself or the other moderators about it, and we'll have a quick word with the post and poster in question, and that will be the end of it. If the creator of the rpg has no particular objection, then the plaintiff can grit their teeth and bear it or leave the rpg. Of course, we'll have to nose it around that it's not acceptable to leave rpgs for that reason...

Anyway, I think that given the individual nature of all cases, and the simple fact that people are more than capable of making their own choices, it's a pretty moot issue.

But hey, what do I know. I just work here.[/font][/color]

[Justin]

I just find it amusing that 12-year-olds are making RPGs and labeling them "18+".

(I am praying for you sister, Tori. I hope it's all good.)

-Justin

[James]

[color=#707875]Hopefully we can create a very simple ratings system and accompanying rules in order to guide the creation of these new RPGs. If "mature" RPGs are going to be popular, they're going to have to be held to mature/adult standards.

That is, I think it would be unreasonable to have a "mature" RPG and then to write three line posts throughout the entire thing.

I think I mentioned somewhere in that forum; if you're going to write an adult/mature story, you will be held to adult/mature standards. I suspect this means that many more RPGs than usual will be closed and that people will need to think more carefully when attempting to write something mature/adult. That seems reasonable to me.[/color]

[Kei]

[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by James [/i]
[B][color=#707875]Hopefully we can create a very simple ratings system and accompanying rules in order to guide the creation of these new RPGs. [/color] [/B][/QUOTE]

[color=darkblue]To me, the easiest thing to implement would be the same ratings system the American (I have no idea if it's in effect elsewhere) FCC has developed for television (G, PG, PG14, M, and the sub-catagories L, S, D, V).

General (or G) would be your base stuff (i.e. Sara's Care Bear RPG), PG would be the next step up with more teenagerly (for lack of better term) situations, PG14 for slightly more intense stiuations than the former, and M is pretty much self-explanatory.

The sub-catagories for language (L), sexuality (S), suggestive dialouge (D) and violence (V) would have to be added, if nessecary, to anything above a G-rating.

That's my thought about the thing, anyway.[/color]

[James]

[color=#707875]The only problem is that a lot of our visitors also come from Europe and Australia. So, we'd have to be careful about that.

I was thinking of something more simple (perhaps only three levels of rating), and then requiring the RPG creator to write a small warning at the beginning, where they talk about what the RPG entails.

But I haven't really sat down and given it a lot of thought. So, with that said, I'm open to all suggestions on a potential ratings system.[/color]

[Kinetic]

[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by James [/i]
[B][color=#707875]

I think I mentioned somewhere in that forum; if you're going to write an adult/mature story, you will be held to adult/mature standards.[/color] [/B][/QUOTE]

You bring up a very valid point, James. I often browse the Recruitment forum (wishing to find a quality RPG to invest my time in), but while I'm browsing, I often come upon a "Mature" rated RPG and an interesting title. However, when I enter the thread, I find a paragraph long introduction and it drives me insane. If someone's going to advertise a mature RPG, I expect quality introductions at least, not something that a 6th grader thought up at lunch. Even I, though less creative as of late (due to my absence from OtakuBoards), have always made sure that my introductions are fairly long, quality and still interesting. Another thing is grammar and punctuation. It annoys me to see, "gOku jumped Up tha stere case 2 Kill tha Fish," in a Mature rated thread. That's just my thought though, and I couldn't care less about how credible you all think I am.

[James]

[color=#707875]Agreed, Kinetic. I think it's only fair to hold "mature RPGs" to "mature standards". Hopefully that will discourage people from making them, who intend only to make something really low quality, with the purpose of allowing a little swearing and sex.[/color]

[The Harlequin]

[font=gothic][color=indigo]If people are writing like Kinetic's aforementioned example, or writing three line posts, the rpg should be shut down, or at least the members warned, anyway...

This whole fiasco is really getting to the point where members are stepping forward and saying "I think other people may be offended, we need to do something", and "I just don't read it because I don't like it, but other people could be offended", not "I read something I shouldn't have and am now scarred for life". Could be that we're all being a little excessive. As Justin said, we have 12 year old kids writing rpgs on a mature level. There can't be that much wrong.[/font][/color]