Battle against the genders

[wiccansamurai]

Thanks to Glasstemple.com....
[QUOTE]Women are Wonderful

Everyday I give thanks to the Goddess
I have two mounds upon my bodice
I shave my legs, I sit down to pee
I can justify any shopping spree
Not to a barber, but a beauty salon
Can get a massage without a hard on
Can balance the checkbook, pump my own gas
Can talk to my friends about the size of my ***
I always save money by using coupons
Can admit to others when I am wrong
Don't drive in circles at any cost
So I don't have to admit when I am lost
Don't act like I'm in a timed marathon
Every time I go to the john
I spend two hours preparing for a date
Only to find you're two hours late
I don't watch movies with lots of gore
Don't need instant replay to remember the score
I won't lose my hair
I don't get jock itch
And just cause I'm assertive
Don't call me a *****
I don't wear the same underwear everyday
The food in my fridge has no sign of decay
I don't go to Sears
To look at the tools
I don't cheat at poker
I follow the rules
I don't smoke cigars
Don't pay for drinks at bars
I don't punch my friends just to say "Hi"
And it's okay for me to cry
I know all you men
Think that you're "IT"
But compared to a woman
You just ain't ****!
[/QUOTE]

And thanks to Amanda, band person....

[QUOTE]If coat hangers could supply children, there would be no need for guys![/QUOTE]

I'm sorry, I found it irresistable to put these here. But on a more serious debate, let me just say it's an individual thing.

Evidence A: Breezy and Matt have been going out for a week when Matt promises her a huge ring. Only because she asked hm for one. He got a ring from his friends older brother, it was his class ring. LMAO. So, both of them are pretty stupid, here for asking stuff from him all the time, and need I explain the stupidity in him?

Evidence B: Justin and Amanda go great together, never do anything mean to eachother. Thet're both really great people, and as far as matters of the heart go, its pretty much said they're great.

Evidence C: I had to mention Sean in here. Here's an example of a guy who's brains got taken over by his reproductive organs. Need I say more?

Listen to me or not, I've tried my hardest to make a point that needed to be made.

[eleanor]

[size=1][QUOTE][i]Originally posted by cloricus [/i]
[B]I thought males generally have more muscle mass than females and if both were to work out and be fit the male generally would still win?
I'm incredibly unfit (no not fat) and I can beat nearly every girl in my grade in an arm wrestle or running race easily in most cases. [/B][/QUOTE]

^_~ I know an excellent female tennis player at my school and can whup many of the football players' buttocks.[/size]

[Mitch]

[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by Semjaza Azazel [/i]
[B]How many times am I going to have to see that stupid equation at this place? [/B][/QUOTE]

[size=1] For infinity times and finite minds,
the aquiesce to bondageman is the stalemate.
Altered views perceptioned true,
the answer lies not in how many,
but it lies in how much.

Neither man nor woman be greater,
and a man cannot bear forth a child,
and a woman cannot make a child lone.
Each needs another to breed their kinds.

Neither man nor woman think the same,
and nor will they ever do so, it shall never changed.

When it rains men, it rains pigs,
the swine that are divine interventors,
and when it rains women, it rains whales,
beeched, shore-ridden things, with long tails.
And in the rain, and splattering hail,
it rains beauty.

I find threads like these to be ignorance at its most outspoken.

Judging someone on their gender is like judging them on their skin color. It is something that is predefined, it is something that cannot be changed, but only through superficial manners.

How can two sexes of the same breed be greater than another? Each is not the same, and each does not think the same, but neither has things that outweight the other.

To think otherwise is to think without one's mind.[/size]

[Imp]

Quote by maladjusted: "Scientifically, men are smarter in the fields of math and science."

Hmmmm... then how come I'm smarter than most of the boys in my school in that field? And I'm a girl...

Quote also by maladjusted: "Men are physically stronger."

I agree. But who cares--females make that up for looks and less body odor. (And I make up for it with my psychic powers! Tee hee hee!)

It's quite weird (and stupid) that men, throughout history, have severely discriminated against women. They made them slaves, gave them no rights at all, made them "a man's property"...THAT'S JUST CRAZY!!! I wonder how the men would feel if the women discriminated against them... :demon: Arrgh... Sometimes men would kill people just because they were female! That definitely happened in the Salem Witch Trials, which happened a long time ago. Mainly because they thought that women were witches. (What's wrong with that? Putting spells on people is perfectly OK, as long as they're not curses!) I feel sorry for those women back then, and I'm glad I wasn't alive back then... (eek! I have witch written all over me!) Even now, there's still some discrimination against women, and virtually none agaist men. How unfair!

Well, other points about males and females:

-Overall, males tend to get better grades in school than females do. (most of the best students in classes are male)
-Most important positions, such as president, are taken only by a male.
-Discrimination against females is mostly due to the fact that males are physically stronger than females.
-Females generally have less body odor than males do.
-Females sing better than males.
-Because females are the ones that give birth, the males sometimes rape them so that they can get them pregnant and stuck with a baby. That can be emotionally hurtful. That's probably why 97% of rapists are male.
-Females are generally better than males as far as looks go.
-A lot of people worldwide have stated that "all men are created equal". What about women?
-Some of the best leaders in the world have been female.

Well, there are a lot more than that... anyone wanna add on to the list?

[wrist cutter]

[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by Nefertimon [/i]
[B]-Females are generally better than males as far as looks go.[/B][/QUOTE]

I would have to disagree with that.

[Semjaza]

This has kind of debased itself into an "anything you can do, I can do better" thread, it seems lol

Statistics can be used in this, but there's statistics to prove anything. They're nearly useless unless you exactly know why, when and how they were determined. However, when you just base it on people you know, you don't exactly get any farther. Several girls I know are very insecure, I could turn that into a statistic. Would it mean anything? No, not really.

So I don't see why is matters. I don't care about genders in this way. I haven't found anyone that is so much better than someone at singing, writing, painting, drawing or whatever simply because of their sex and no other reason. I'm sure there are plenty of girls who could kick the *** of most any guy on OB. I'm sure there are guys that could sing far better than most of the girls here. What does that prove?

Besides, I'm detecting an undertone of "my sex are better" in a lot of these posts, rather than a "boys and girls are equal" one... Although many haven't outright said it. Even in the posts by the girls who are claiming they are discrimated against. Even the first post mentiond that the first thing that was brought up was that "women are better workers normally" (sic), which had to have started the whole gender debate in the first place... That doesn't sound like something a bunch of argumentative, stupid boys would say. That doesn't seem odd?

I don't like any of my friends any more or less because of their sex. I like them based on their personalities, and sure there are gender-related things that can affect that personality, but on a whole I can't see how something that basic could affect my choices. Oh, he's a guy, so he must like screwing girls constantly. Oh, she's a girl, she must love wearing makeup and pink clothes. Nothing works that way.

I thought I'd see the even treatment thing mentioned in here a bit more often.. Sure, males can do some things females can't and vice versa, but that balances itself out. Whatever though. The more you get hung up on this stuff, the more you're going to make it a problem for yourself. All the complaining about generalizing and stereotyping that we have to read about in threads here, and that's exactly what is happening in this one. It's actually pretty humorous.

[Guest cloricus]

One would have to be superior.

[Toraneko]

I dunno - when it comes to minor cases of everyday life - one, I guess, is superior... but if you think about it.. overall, we're all mankind. We all exist as the same race ... as say - aliens are concerned lol

[Heaven's Cloud]

[color=indigo]Some of the supposed generalizations posted in this thread have to among the stupidest I have ever read. Broadly comparing the capabilities between women and men is like debating the pronunciation of the word ?potato? (or, in case Dan Quayle is reading, ?potatoe?).

The only real differences between men and women are reproductive and base physicality. Women obviously have the ability to give birth to children, and the female body has been created (for lack of a better term, I guess evolved or molded would have also sufficed) for that purpose. Because of this the average women does not possess the maximum physical potential that a man does. Any other difference, as far as abilities or capacity (such as the ability to excel in language arts and mathematics) can be chalked up to a person?s social and environmental interaction.

I think that today?s world (or rather today?s America) treats men and women as equally as can be expected, though chauvinistic members reside on both sides of the coin. With the exceptions of some base generalizations, I don?t really expect any specific characteristics from members of the either sex without interacting with them.[/color]

[ChibiHorsewoman]

[color=violet]Why not just put it this way and be done with it?
This 'debate' has been going on since before recorded history. Men and women have been going back and forth since before the sufferage movement and the war efforts of ww1 and ww2.
We both have strengths and weaknesses.
Some men have a better sense of direction than women and some women can build things better than men. Simple as that
We're different but equal at the same time.
Now that that's finished, if you need me I'll be participating in the Indy 500 (yeah riiiiiight)[/color]

[Mitch]

[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by cloricus [/i]
[B]One would have to be superior. [/B][/QUOTE]

[size=1] One would have to be spammy.

No, neither needs to be "superior," it's only in some kid's mind like yours that it has to be.

Did you even listen to what Tony said? because it's exactly what I think.[/size]

[Dan L]

[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by cloricus [/i]
[B]One would have to be superior. [/B][/QUOTE]

Nah, we're all idiots.

Both seem to feel a need to be superior but both are equally weak.

There are general characteristics of females and general characteristics of males. There are exceptions but such is the case with humanity.

The general characteristics of neither male nor female are better- only different.

[Katana]

Eh...I know it'd be better to keep my mouth shut, but...

To look at the topic at hand, you have to take it really broadly. You can't just state your opinion and say "because theyr'e better" and leave it at that.
No one is superior.
I guess you could also look at the subject from a different view.
The gender thing is kind of like two things on the boards: Otaku Idol and graphic artists. With the Otaku Idol, just because a certain person won dosen't mean their better. It just means the bribbed the people.
Just kidding, color guard! ^^
For banner makers, if you looked at two people's banners that they made and the person the b.ms. made them for chooses one, that doesn't mean he or she is better. It just means that that person chose the style the requester liked.
(I hope that made sense.)
Okay, now on to RANTS! Woo! *coughs*
I am a total feminist....by this, I don't mean women are better,[strike]even though they are[/strike] I mean that I fight for a female's rights, that's all.
Who says we can't fight? Say that to my face please and say hello to my right fist...or my knee...or my elbow...or my head...
Women also are the source of life. Guys, if we were to all die out, you'd probably die in....*thinks* twenty years or so, maybe more, maybe less. Females do practiclly all the basic jobs for men (cooking, etc).
In fifth grade, we had these journals to write in. And everyday we were given a subject to write about. One was "what do you think of the opposite gender?" Of course, being me, I went on and on about how boys are lazy. ^^;;
When we told the class what we thought, one boy said that women are "[u]only[/u] good for cooking and cleaning and serving us (men)". Oh hoho, he went into uncharted territory there. All the girls rose up against him and the few boys defending him. It was great.
One guy, who is really nice, flat out said that girls are better than guys. All the girls clapped for him, a few of us cheered. End of story. :D

[Fyxe]

[size=1][color=darkblue]Lol, I like your little story Katana. ^^ But about what that boy said.... I heard to much of it. I don't like to be belittled by boys just because I am a girl. At my school, however, I have proved that girl can do the same things and do just as well at them as boys. I'm rather violent when someone pisses me off, so normally people know when to stay away. :P I do just as well in sports to, and frankly.... I'm a terrible cook and cleaner. Lol, so I would never be able to live with a man I guess. :rolleyes: Or so they think. All I heard that we [i]are good[/i] at or [i]meant[/i] to only do are things such as keeping tidy and cooking. Heh, I'm terrible at having a clean space... I hate a really clean spot. Plus, they say all girls take an hour or more to get ready in the morning. NOT TRUE! I take a total of about five minutes. I don't like make-up.... it's evil, never use it.
I'm not trying to say that women are better than men, it's just they don't normally think of our feelings or how they should treat us. They belittle our gender to much. They think we cannot do the same things as them, but we can. Also, as I said before, men cannot do some things that women can do and women cannot do somethings men can. So really we are equal, because for what a certain gender cannot do, the other one can. So really, no one is superior. True, women may be the source of life, but if it weren't for men, they couln't make life. We all play a valuable part to life and all I ever wanted was a little gratitude. It's like whenever we do something, we are barely ever thanked. Most men have always treated me like I was just something there and I didn't matter and I hate that. I would rather us live more together and help eachother and stop battling over what gender is better. Because we are smart enough to know that both genders are needed on the same amount.
That's really how I feel about that.[/color][/size]

[Kieko]

[QUOTE]Lol, I like your little story Katana. ^^ But about what that boy said.... I heard to much of it. I don't like to be belittled by boys just because I am a girl. At my school, however, I have proved that girl can do the same things and do just as well at them as boys. I'm rather violent when someone pisses me off, so normally people know when to stay away. :P I do just as well in sports to, and frankly.... I'm a terrible cook and cleaner. Lol, so I would never be able to live with a man I guess. Or so they think. All I heard that we are good at or meant to only do are things such as keeping tidy and cooking. Heh, I'm terrible at having a clean space... I hate a really clean spot. Plus, they say all girls take an hour or more to get ready in the morning. NOT TRUE! I take a total of about five minutes. I don't like make-up.... it's evil, never use it.
I'm not trying to say that women are better than men, it's just they don't normally think of our feelings or how they should treat us. They belittle our gender to much. They think we cannot do the same things as them, but we can. Also, as I said before, men cannot do some things that women can do and women cannot do somethings men can. So really we are equal, because for what a certain gender cannot do, the other one can. So really, no one is superior. True, women may be the source of life, but if it weren't for men, they couln't make life. We all play a valuable part to life and all I ever wanted was a little gratitude. It's like whenever we do something, we are barely ever thanked. Most men have always treated me like I was just something there and I didn't matter and I hate that. I would rather us live more together and help eachother and stop battling over what gender is better. Because we are smart enough to know that both genders are needed on the same amount.
That's really how I feel about that.[/QUOTE]


Here, here! That about sums it up for me and my life! There are SO many sports, actually, all the sports in our school are gender coded: there are no coed sports. And, on top of that, boys get extra sports that girls aren't given the opportunity to do! Like football and what not. (I love football! ^_^). I agree! Boys DO belittle girls! (It could go the opposite way, but I don't feel that way because basicly all my friends are boys and the two who aren't are tomboys like me).

[wrist cutter]

[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by Kieko [/i]
[B]here are SO many sports, actually, all the sports in our school are gender coded: there are no coed sports. And, on top of that, boys get extra sports that girls aren't given the opportunity to do! Like football and what not. (I love football! ^_^). I agree! Boys DO belittle girls! (It could go the opposite way, but I don't feel that way because basicly all my friends are boys and the two who aren't are tomboys like me). [/B][/QUOTE]

Boys at my school can't play volleyball or do cheerleading. I'm sure there are other sports too.

[Guest Crimson Spider]

Boys are often belittled by girls too. How many times I've been stereotyped instantly as being some lazy racist and idiot, regardless if it was true or not. BUt since girls are viewed in modern society as the ones who are opressed and looked down upon, the teachers at my elementry just turned their heads at acts that girls are doing that are against the rules.

But one thing: if there are some things that are different, they are not equal. But they can be pretty darn close. There IS a superior sex, ther IS a superior race, there IS a superior dog... you can go on forever.

But many over time have known the existance of a superior race. The problem lies with not knowing which one it is. And thus, the quest for which one is better (ultimatly trying to prove one's own race is superior) had started, and that leads to nothing but trouble.

People know less than they think. I've said this once: "The smartest men in the world knows exactly how dumb they are." generalizing the entire human race into one classification of course.

Because of this, one often searches for the "Better" race with cocky and headstrong intentions to better themselve, and not to actually find the best race. With this intention, no progress is ever made.

Such as this: Men were said to be better than women for centuries because of one simple fact: We are stronger. Not can be stronger. [i]Are[/i]. You see, 50% of a man's body is nothing but muscle, while 25% pf a womens body is muscle. With this fact, men said that they were better because they could do more jobs of manual labor. But this was only one fact, and not looked at four-dimensionally. Sure! Men are stronger. But you would need to take consideration into the enviroment of which we exist. Greater strength was quite a nice bonous in the 15th century, but is it now? What was true in the past isn't necisarily true in the present or future on this discussion. In the computer age, we have machines do all our work. Everything is automated. [i]The need for a strength that would require ONLY a man is no longer needed[/i]. The only strength required is to press a button, or pull a lever. The strength to make a cheeseburger, or to take apart a computer. Greater strength is no longer an issue because in our modern society, it is no longer needed. Atleast in most of the worlds countries. Some of the poorer ones this is still true. Hardly, but still true.

And then there's the fourth angle which is hardly ever looked at: If a man is stronger, and yet a woman is weaker, and yet they can both do jobs with the same outcome and skill, then wouldn't it mean that the woman is better because she not only has a dis-advantage at the task, but aslo can handle it with the same skill as one who has the very easy potential of being more physically adept than her?

Simple strengths and measurable levels of various things cannot simply determin the "betterness" of either gender nor race because of this fourth angle. "White men can't dance." I've heard this about a thousand times. And wouldn't that mean that white men are better because we are capable of meeting the challange presented to us that other races are pratically handed to on a silver platter?

But listening to this, those who are pratically convinced that your gender is the best, can you really say that yours is better? Or are you just more adept at handling certain situations, and ignoring that the are more adept at handeling others?

One could say that the one who is most suitable at existing in their enviroment is best, but that would just mean that they are more suitable now, and not later. But even if the other race/gender isn't as suitable, and they can still preform the job. Would one be so certain that your gender/race would have the ability to rise to such an occasion with your dis-advantages so you can do the same thing as another race?

But knowing which one is superior would not help anything. It would cause cockyness, and nothing but trouble.

So technically, although just saying that they are both equal is incorrect, it is the right choice to make.

[ChibiHorsewoman]

[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by Conna_da_fox [/i]
[B][size=1][color=darkblue]Lol, I like your little story Katana. ^^ But about what that boy said.... I heard to much of it. I don't like to be belittled by boys just because I am a girl. At my school, however, I have proved that girl can do the same things and do just as well at them as boys. I'm rather violent when someone pisses me off, so normally people know when to stay away. :P I do just as well in sports to, and frankly.... I'm a terrible cook and cleaner. Lol, so I would never be able to live with a man I guess. :rolleyes: Or so they think. All I heard that we [i]are good[/i] at or [i]meant[/i] to only do are things such as keeping tidy and cooking. Heh, I'm terrible at having a clean space... I hate a really clean spot. Plus, they say all girls take an hour or more to get ready in the morning. NOT TRUE! I take a total of about five minutes. I don't like make-up.... it's evil, never use it.
I'm not trying to say that women are better than men, it's just they don't normally think of our feelings or how they should treat us. They belittle our gender to much. They think we cannot do the same things as them, but we can. Also, as I said before, men cannot do some things that women can do and women cannot do somethings men can. So really we are equal, because for what a certain gender cannot do, the other one can. So really, no one is superior. True, women may be the source of life, but if it weren't for men, they couln't make life. We all play a valuable part to life and all I ever wanted was a little gratitude. It's like whenever we do something, we are barely ever thanked. Most men have always treated me like I was just something there and I didn't matter and I hate that. I would rather us live more together and help eachother and stop battling over what gender is better. Because we are smart enough to know that both genders are needed on the same amount.
That's really how I feel about that.[/color][/size] [/B][/QUOTE]
[color=violet]That basically sums up my near life in a nutshell. Of course, I ended up married to a man who can cook and clean better than me, but I do the laundry and help with grocery shopping because I'm better at those things than he is.
But who says you really have to get married? You can live a completely productive life without having to commit yourself to one person.
Of course, I suck in most sports, but my husband doesn't know a stirrup from a billet strap on a saddle and I do alot of jumping and dressage.
I wear make-up, but I only take about 10-fifteen minutes outting it on. and the lipgloss can be applied in the car.
We're all equal tho, I don't understand why we keep going thru this day after day, year after year, century after century.
Okay, I still want Lincoln to get pregnant with me, but that's such a dream![/color]

[Toraneko]

I wonder how much of this repeativeness of this arguement though history is due to usually when a new generation is born the human race has to be educated all over again.... therefore the arguements arrise again.

[James]

[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by Crimson Spider [/i]
[B]


But many over time have known the existance of a superior race. The problem lies with not knowing which one it is. And thus, the quest for which one is better (ultimatly trying to prove one's own race is superior) had started, and that leads to nothing but trouble.

[/B][/QUOTE]

[color=#707875]Tell me, Crimson Spider...which race [b]is[/b] superior?

In relation to gender...being "different" doesn't mean that both are not "equal". You can have equality while also having diversity.

If a man and a woman both exercise all the time...the man will ultimately be the physically stronger individual. I don't think anyone is questioning that. That's just how mankind has evolved; it's the same with many other species (although in some species, the female is actually the bigger/stronger individual...like spiders and other invertibrates, for example).

But the fact is, our society isn't based purely on these extremely basic aspects of nature. Men don't have to go and hunt down food for the family in the society that you and I live in. And, by the same token, women don't have to spend all their time at home rearing children in this society either. Because we have developed beyond those basic fundamentals in our everyday lives.

And we do know that men and women are capable of achieving the same feats on a mental level -- women can become lawyers, doctors, writers, painters and so on, the same as men. Women can also become national leaders (like Margaret Thatcher, Gloria Arroyo and Helen Clark for example). We [i]know[/i], through experience, that the playing field is pretty darn equal when it comes to cerebral matters. And I think that's the most important aspect of it.

The problem is that some of you are taking "equality" too literally. I mean, my own physical makeup is going to be different to another male -- does that mean that one of us is superior to the other? Of course not. Not only is the idea of superiority subjective...but also, again, "different" doesn't necessarily mean "better". And even if you called one person "better" than another...how do you decide that? On looks? Or on sense of humor? Or intelligence? Or how good they are at sport?

And who makes the decision? You? Me?

*shrug*

This is why I find the whole "debate" over which gender is better to be pretty moot at this stage. Not only is the actual idea of "better" extremely vague and subjective...but the idea that we, as people living and working in modern society, would actually spend our time trying to find an answer to that question (a silly question in the first place), is pointless.

[/color]

[Guest cloricus]

[quote]No, neither needs to be "superior," it's only in some kid's mind like yours that it has to be.
Did you even listen to what Tony said? Because it's exactly what I think.[/quote]Is it really just some kids mind that it has to be in - Can you prove that it isn't in one of the many other people in this threads mind, or that you haven't thought like this at one point and how do you know neither is not superior as a proven fact?
I'm just curious because in nature every living thing has a lesser and greater phenomenon than it's self so why are we exempt; Is it because we believe god(s) put us here and told us we were special, we have been raised to think this or that some cannot accept that humans are the same as every thing else and in no way better than other things?

I would also like to know why it is that when Tony says some thing it becomes gospel just because you too believe it? Not to be rude but it is no way to discredit others [i]opinions[/i] especially in an argument that can never have a clear winner without an independent and non bias review by a random passing alien or talking dolphin. (To prove that either we are equal or one is better.)

All I am saying from my stand point in this debate is that one from a relative stand point will be better than the other overall, and I am not under any circumstances putting one forward as the better. I?m just saying that one should and must be superior if you apply what you can observe in the world around you.

[Tom Bullivant]

I tend to agree with the majority here. In this day and age, both genders should be treated as equals. It is also true that biologically they are different, however this shouldn't affect how they are treated. I certainly cannot or wouldn't want to imagine a world without either males or females.

I especially like the point James put across about the fact that on forums it can sometimes be hard to determine a poster's gender, and the way you treat them is regardless of their gender, (and rightly so too).