Warlock Posted December 14, 2003 Share Posted December 14, 2003 Well, Saddam Hussein has finally been captured, in the cellar of a farmhouse in the town of Adwar, 10 miles from Tikrit, and obviously in Iraq. And thanks to DNA, it's been confirmed it's really him. There's not too much more information available just yet, but it should come to light really soon... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baron Samedi Posted December 14, 2003 Share Posted December 14, 2003 Ah yes, I heard about that. They're not sure if it's him though, or so I've heard. Unconfirmed reports they are. Sadly, it doesn't necessarily mean the war is over. At least we apparently have him though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeathKnight Posted December 14, 2003 Share Posted December 14, 2003 [color=crimson]Press conference confirming it now, apparently. This is great news, no matter if you oppose it or support it- finally, maybe things will quiet down at least a bit for the Iraqi's and the Coalition.[/color] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James Posted December 14, 2003 Share Posted December 14, 2003 [color=#707875]Yeah...I don't know what else to add. Seeing the Middle Eastern media cry out as they first showed his pictures was quite an emotional and historic experience. He was cooperative, too; didn't try to fight his way out, like he had previously hinted he would. Predictably cowardly.[/color] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warlock Posted December 14, 2003 Author Share Posted December 14, 2003 [QUOTE][i]Originally posted by James [/i] [B][color=#707875]Yeah...I don't know what else to add. Seeing the Middle Eastern media cry out as they first showed his pictures was quite an emotional and historic experience. [/color] [/B][/QUOTE] *nods* And one I doubt I'll forget anytime soon. [QUOTE][i]Originally posted by James [/i] [B][color=#707875]He was cooperative, too; didn't try to fight his way out, like he had previously hinted he would. Predictably cowardly. [/color] [/B][/QUOTE] Well, I guess that just shows what sort of a person he is. And while some of the foreign fighters might continue to rage their war in Iraq, is does look like the actual Iraqi loyalists will start to stop their attacks. I sure hope they do, anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Patronus Posted December 14, 2003 Share Posted December 14, 2003 [font=tahoma]I am so glad that they captured him. I don't like that they want his own people to try him, though. I think the United States should try him - or that's what I think at least.[/font] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Heezay Posted December 14, 2003 Share Posted December 14, 2003 Man I was going to start this exact thread. Does anyone know what time it happened? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James Posted December 14, 2003 Share Posted December 14, 2003 [color=#707875]Why should the United States try him? Iraq should. The Iraqis are the one who suffered for thirty years under this guy...they are the ones who were gassed and raped and tortured. They should try him and find him guilty in their own court -- I think the Iraqi people deserve that at the very, very least. Anyway, they captured him a few hours ago...I'm not sure exactly when. He was hiding in a little hole under the ground, quite literally. He gave up without a fight and has been cooperative so far, apparently. He also looks incredibly humiliated, I'd say.[/color] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Patronus Posted December 14, 2003 Share Posted December 14, 2003 [FONT=TAHOMA]Fine, James, they can try them first.. but we need to try them in our court too. I don't have too much confidence in the Iraqi court, mainly because it [i]is[/i] or [i]was[/i] corrupted.[/FONT] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James Posted December 14, 2003 Share Posted December 14, 2003 [QUOTE][i]Originally posted by Leh [/i] [B][FONT=TAHOMA]Fine, James, they can try them first.. but we need to try them in our court too. I don't have too much confidence in the Iraqi court, mainly because it [i]is[/i] or [i]was[/i] corrupted.[/FONT] [/B][/QUOTE] [color=#707875]It was corrupted under Saddam. He isn't the leader anymore. A new court has been developed by the Iraqi Governing Council, which is based upon international standards. So the court is fine.[/color] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest cloricus Posted December 14, 2003 Share Posted December 14, 2003 [quote]Predictably cowardly.[/quote] And you want him to fight a country that wants any excuse to kill him? I find that comment ?cheap? as you don't know what that situation is like; making a character judgement on some one you don't know. (And yes I would be making this comment in the case of any one just like I did with hicks.) According to CNN and other sources it happened at 8:30 Saturday, I assume American time. In a cellar with an air pipe or some thing. I would not like to be the people holding him right now and in the future as their are a lot of people loyal to him... Saddam down, Bin Laden still to go. [quote]The Iraqis are the one who suffered for thirty years under this guy...they are the ones who were gassed and raped and tortured. They should try him and find him guilty in their own court.[/quote] Couldn't agree more, Iraq should do this as a nation. BUT to prove them selves it should be done properly, "innocent until proven guilty" other wise their whole "new" country would be based on a flawed justice system. [edit] In reply to below - No James, I'm not attacking your post. I am strongly disagreeing with your point of view on this, not based on the man or his past but his current actions and their out comes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James Posted December 14, 2003 Share Posted December 14, 2003 [QUOTE][i]Originally posted by cloricus [/i] [B]And you want him to fight a country that wants any excuse to kill him? I find that comment ?cheap? as you don't know what that situation is like; making a character judgement on some one you don't know. (And yes I would be making this comment in the case of any one just like I did with hicks.) [/B][/QUOTE] [color=#707875]I find [i]your[/i] comment "cheap". Why? Because you're attacking my post before even knowing about the news. Saddam Hussein indicated time and time again that he "wouldn't go alive". He kept making these bold and arrogant proclamations about himself. I'm not making a character judgement about his entire persona; I'm just repeating what Saddam himself said. So, he didn't kill himself. He didn't go out in a blaze of glory, like he said he would. He's a coward. Don't argue with me just for the sake of arguing; it should be obvious that I'm judging his character based only on how he himself has behaved. And we [i]know[/i] that the man is a coward/cheat/liar based on his previous actions. So don't even go there. Oh, and...a country that wants any excuse to kill him? Uh, Cloricus...didn't you hear that he was [b]captured[/b] and not killed? That statement itself is an absolute falsehood. Again, don't try to argue with me just for the sake of disagreement. It's really not worth it.[/color] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Patronus Posted December 14, 2003 Share Posted December 14, 2003 [QUOTE][i]Originally posted by James [/i] [B][color=#707875]So the court is fine.[/color] [/B][/QUOTE] [font=tahoma]I'll believe that when pigs fly. Sorry, but I don't have much faith in it.[/font] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James Posted December 14, 2003 Share Posted December 14, 2003 [QUOTE][i]Originally posted by Leh [/i] [B][font=tahoma][size=3]I'll believe that when pigs fly. Sorry, but I don't have much faith in it.[/size][/font] [/B][/QUOTE] [color=#707875]Even though the United States set it up and monitors it for them? Okay. And Cloricus...don't back out. You're not disagreeing with me on any substantive level. Your comment about America wanting any excuse to kill him was blatantly false and your objection to my criticism of Saddam was pretty silly. I just explained to you that I'm judging his cowardice based on [b]his own[/b] actions and words, both now and in the past. Your comment there is just a hollow dismissal. If you're going to make comments like that to me, you [i]should[/i] be aware that they'll be heavily tested. [/color] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest cloricus Posted December 14, 2003 Share Posted December 14, 2003 I am aware they will be "heavily tested" and I do and continue to strongly disagree with you on this. I don?t hate this man so I am slightly less bias than yourself, I think this is playing a part in your reply so I am happy for you to opposite my posts and I will listen to your side but I will be taking it with a grain of salt. (Sorry if that sounds rude as I don?t mean it to be.) Moral grounds are different for varying people so I will drop this; I?ve said what I wanted to say there. I can see what you?re saying I plainly just don't agree with it. Also I find it rather odd and silly that you hold the notion that they don't want him dead. Not only is he the reason they are there and possibly, if he was controlling attacks, the one that was responsible for killing Americans and others every day but now every one that goes near him in the future must fear terrorist attack on small or large scale. Another point is America has said the order was to capture "dead or alive" which means, from what I've picked up, kill the target if they resist violently (in an extreme manor). It would logistically have been better off if he had come out in a body bag I think even you will have to agree with that, sure it's nice to have some one to kill at a later date (once he's found guilty) but he is a liability til that time. (I?m interested in yours or others replies/opinions on this.) I would be interested in what this turns up, now that saddam cannot come back as a "leader" (read=dictator) people who the Americans and English said where too afraid to talk about WMA might finally shed light on what really went on in that area. Also according to CNN it was the Kurds who gave the information leading to his arrest, looks like they got their revenge. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James Posted December 14, 2003 Share Posted December 14, 2003 [QUOTE][i]Originally posted by cloricus [/i] [B]I am aware they will be "heavily tested" and I do and continue to strongly disagree with you on this. I don?t hate this man so I am slightly less bias than yourself, I think this is playing a part in your reply so I am happy for you to opposite my posts and I will listen to your side but I will be taking it with a grain of salt. (Sorry if that sounds rude as I don?t mean it to be.)[/quote][/b] [color=#707875]When did I say that I hate Saddam? You are, again, pulling stuff out of thin air. You're only taking my posts with a grain of salt because you don't like being harshly challenged. But I will not have my posts misinterpreted like that. If you're going to interpret me incorrectly, I'm going to correct you.[/color][quote][b] Moral grounds are different for varying people so I will drop this; I?ve said what I wanted to say there. I can see what you?re saying I plainly just don't agree with it.[/quote][/b] [color=#707875]You don't agree with what? That Saddam is a coward? How utterly insular do you have to be not to agree with that? Do you think I have some personal reason for saying it? Geeze. It is a common and historical fact that Saddam Hussein is many things. Would you doubt that he is a coward/liar/cheater/etc? I doubt most would. Saddam has never demonstrated any measure of acknowledgement or accountability. He will quite happily race off somewhere to hide himself while his troops are out there dying -- even when they themselves don't want to be fighting in the army. For you to try and legitimately suggest that Saddam [i]isn't[/i] cowardly is really just flying in the face of history and news reporting over the last two decades. You can take my opinion with a grain of salt as much as you like -- but do you also take basic history with a grain of salt too?[/color][quote][b] Also I find it rather odd and silly that you hold the notion that they don't want him dead. Not only is he the reason they are there and possibly, if he was controlling attacks, the one that was responsible for killing Americans and others every day but now every one that goes near him in the future must fear terrorist attack on small or large scale. Another point is America has said the order was to capture "dead or alive" which means, from what I've picked up, kill the target if they resist violently (in an extreme manor). It would logistically have been better off if he had come out in a body bag I think even you will have to agree with that, sure it's nice to have some one to kill at a later date (once he's found guilty) but he is a liability til that time. (I?m interested in yours or others replies/opinions on this.) [/B][/QUOTE] [color=#707875]Oh, Cloricus...where do I start? If the Americans wanted him dead, [b]he would be dead right now[/b]. How hard is that to grasp? They had a clear shot. He was right there. He didn't resist. They could easily have killed him and [i]easily[/i] justified doing so. But they didn't. They wanted him alive, preferably. Why did they want him alive, preferably? Because they want him to be tried in front of an Iraqi court -- they want him to be accountable to the people of Iraq. And the humiliation that comes with defeat doesn't hurt either. Now, of course, an Iraqi court might sentence him to death. And I doubt that the Americans would care about that at all. But that's clearly not what we're talking about. Honestly, Cloricus. Sometimes I just don't know. You are often able to draw a [i]very[/i] long bow.[/color] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shinobi Posted December 14, 2003 Share Posted December 14, 2003 Well around 12:30 PM i got a phone call from my Dad who was at my Gran's house. They had noticed a News Flash come on the TV and he phoned straight away. Obvioulsy this is great news! To be honest however, i didn't like how the Americans didn't really mention the Kurds until later on. I found out later on in a more depth news report that it was infact leads from the Kurds that led to the capture. Today is my Grandpa's 75th birthday AND Saddam is capture...seems like a very good day :D. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest cloricus Posted December 14, 2003 Share Posted December 14, 2003 Shinobi it's a good day how? A moral victory that will have no effect on the war except possibly on the civilian side and some spin doctors in the US and UK cover over the fact that they are still tied up in two bad wars with one of the people they went after, Osama bin Laden, is still not dead or in custody. It will not stop the attacks in Iraq as they are in a cell structure and American is viewed as the "invaders" which to an extremist just makes everything else cease to matter. People will still continue to die because of this so it can't be that good a day? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James Posted December 14, 2003 Share Posted December 14, 2003 [color=#707875]But why ruin what [i]is[/i] a good day? A violent dictator, who terrorized his people for thirty years and who killed hundreds of thousands of people is now under arrest. I don't know why that isn't a good thing. Using that as a launchpad to start your own spin machine about the war is pretty cynical. But if you really want to debate whether or not Saddam's capture is a good thing, then sure...I'll happily debate that. ~_^[/color] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boba Fett Posted December 14, 2003 Share Posted December 14, 2003 [QUOTE][i]Originally posted by Warlock [/i] [B]Well, Saddam Hussein has finally been captured, right in his home town of Tikrit in Iraq. And thanks to DNA, it's been confirmed it's really him. There's not too much more information available just yet, but it should come to light really soon... [/B][/QUOTE] [QUOTE][i]Originally from FOX News.com[/I] [B]The former Iraqi dictator was captured Saturday at 8:30 p.m. in the cellar of a farmhouse in the town of Adwar, 10 miles from Tikrit, ending one of the most intense manhunts in history.[/B] [/QUOTE] [COLOR=green]Just wanted to make that clarification about where he was actually captured.[/COLOR] [QUOTE][i]Originally posted by James [/i] [B][color=#707875]Yeah...I don't know what else to add. Seeing the Middle Eastern media cry out as they first showed his pictures was quite an emotional and historic experience.[/color] [/B][/QUOTE] [COLOR=green][URL=http://www.foxnews.com]Video of Bremer's Press Conference with the Arab Media[/URL] Obviously this is great news, and I hope to see Saddam tried in an Iraqi court as soon as possible.[/COLOR] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shinken Posted December 14, 2003 Share Posted December 14, 2003 FINALLY!!! We got him! And, cloricus, how can you not think this is a good thing? The guy's tortured his own people for decades, and he's been arrested. Can you find ONE bad aspect of this? Good luck. Oh, and Boba Fett, there's one thing I'd have to disagree with: he should be tried in an American court, in my opinion. Because, let's face it, a lot of these people are still scared of him. Then there are those who're still behind him. So, bring him here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest rttocs77 Posted December 14, 2003 Share Posted December 14, 2003 Yes, they have captured him. Oh, today is a very good day for Republicans. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dagger Posted December 14, 2003 Share Posted December 14, 2003 rttocs77, why is today a good day for Republicans alone? [i]Everyone[/i] should be happy about this--whether they're American, Australian, Democratic, Republican, Iraqi, or any other nationality or political affiliation. I'm personally rather liberal, and I can't claim to have supported all of President Bush's decisions, but why on earth would that stop me from celebrating Saddam Hussein's capture? ~Dagger~ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eleanor Posted December 14, 2003 Share Posted December 14, 2003 [size=1] Mainly Republicans, I guess. I mean, yes, everyone should be happy, but it's a lucky day for Bush because something good actually came out of the Americans troops in Iraq...[/size] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kent Posted December 14, 2003 Share Posted December 14, 2003 Well this was some great news for me this morning. The Iraqi people now have a legitimate chance at living in peace and growing into an honest and reputable country. Soon Iraqi will join the world as a nation that can support itself and contribute to the world. Of course, the trouble is not over and there will be a continuing struggle. However, in the end, this is big and without a doubt, it is a major victory. I also want to mention that this really should be a situation which is blind to political affiliation, however, I can see where people may look into this on a political level. Fact is, with Saddam in custody, and the dow back at 10,000, there are going to be alot of people searching for some new election year attack subjects. But more important than the possible political effects of this, are the expressed political responses in this thread... (ignoring cloricus as always ;) ) We have a liberal who reminded a conservative that they also felt this is a victory for the world... the entire world. So indeed, this is a victory for the world and hopefully one that will not be subject to petty politics. (although I don't really think that will happen.) Anyway, [b] Joy to the world and peace on earth[/b], may we all enjoy this day as a victory for all of humanity. (especially those of us concerned with human rights.) and maladjusted, watch how you talk about those troops... ever single captured baathist is a victory that only they could bring. And something tells me this isn't luck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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