Saddam Hussein Captured

[TheShinje]

Open wide, Saddam......


[img]http://i.cnn.net/cnn/interactive/world/0312/gallery.saddam.captured/4.saddam.jpg[/img]

For a man that said he would go down in a blaze of glory, this is pretty humilliating.

It's a great day for the Iraqi people, they now know that the tyranny of Saddams Baathist regime will not come back into power. I only hope now that the remaining insurgence from the Baathist and Saddam loyalists takes a huge blow, now their leader and reason for fighting is in the hands of the Coalition.

After the months and months of insurgence and attacks on coaltition troops, the capture of Saddam must be seen as a light at the end of the tunnel for the Iraq saga, his capture brings us that one step closer to brining back sovereignty to the Iraqi people.

I must say that I had some doubts about wether Saddam should be tried before and Iraqi court, because I felt that the level of security might be a problem, however I am confident that Saddam must be tried before the very people that he tortured and dictated for 30+ years. I'm sure the U.S will have the upmost security in place.

[Harry]

[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by Dagger IX1 [/i]
[B]rttocs77, why is today a good day for Republicans alone?

[i]Everyone[/i] should be happy about this--whether they're American, Australian, Democratic, Republican, Iraqi, or any other nationality or political affiliation. I'm personally rather liberal, and I can't claim to have supported all of President Bush's decisions, but why on earth would that stop me from celebrating Saddam Hussein's capture?

~Dagger~ [/B][/QUOTE]
Because democrats have been using the "where's Hussein???" lines for the past few months now. Now they have one less tool to systematically break down america into a bunch of PC zombies that think everything on this earth is sacred, people aren't evil, their environment is, and that the white man must pay for slavery.

[ChibiHorsewoman]

[color=violet]This is a victory for the soldiers stationed in Iraq and the Iraqi people. I saw this @ 8:30 AM EST. And I'm happy about it.
However, I'm also rather pessimistic about the whole outcome. Yes, we've finally caught Sadam, but now what? We can't send everyone home and let the fledgeling government rule themselves can we? Maybe we could, but how good would that look on our war resume's?
THe way I see it is we've won another battle, but the end of the war is a long way off.
Curious as to why I'm such a pessimist? My husband has to go over there in March and won't come home until 2005. I know he'll have that year long tour of duty reguardless of what happened today.
So while I'm happy that we've finally caught Sadam, I still hope and pray that there's soem way we can finish this soon[/color]

[DuoMax]

This is a great day for the Iraqi people. The one who oppressed them for 30 years has been captured. :)

[quote] he should be tried in an American court, in my opinion. Because, let's face it, a lot of these people are still scared of him.[/quote]

I don't quite follow your logic. Just because people in the United States have been duped into thinking he going to nuke the world means he should be tried there? Doesn't make sense. It's good the Iraqis are trying him, though I'd like to see him handed over to the ICC. Unofortunately, sense America does not support the ICC, (God forbid [i]Americans[/i] should be broguht to International justice.) he won't be brought to the ICC.

[Asura]

I was asleep when all of this was going on.
In my opinion, it is a good thing not only was he captured but he was seen to be by everyone a coward. Nothing but a cowardly man hiding in a hole. The war isn't over but it was nice to see a chapter of it close. Hopefully things will calm now and the war will finish not that it has now.

[The Vampire: Ed]

Clorius, seems to like misinterpreting people's posts. Not to mention talk about things he/she knows nothing of by defending Saddam when James said "Predictably cowardly."

The man murdered, and tortured his own people. Call me crazy, but I don't like sadistic dictators who murder and tortures his own people just for the hell of it. That alone makes him a coward, so by going against his "I won't be taken alive" speeches, he proves he's just a lying coward who suffers from diarrhea of the mouth.

Anyway, I'm just glad they caught him. Perhaps now, the people of Iraq can live life without fear of Saddam. The US just needs to pull the troops out when they get the chance, because as long as the troops are there the people won't be able to have a normal life without fearing their so called leader.

Oh, and one more thing I was wondering...what the hell took them so long? Did they have to fight their way into the town or something? I mean it was Saddam's home town, shouldn't that have been the first place they looked? I mean it's just common sense really. Ah, but what do I know. They probably had other things to deal with at the time.

[Baron Samedi]

Actually, you're wrong there TVE. He wasn't in Tukrit, he was in an isolated farmhouse [i]near[/i] Tukrit. He was in a secret room therein, which they found by a breathing pipe and exhaust fan. In there, he was hiding in a spiderhole, which is basically a readymade coffin. 6 feet deep, long enought to lay down in and covered over. He wasn't in any damn position to attack, he was unarmed, lying on the ground. What the hell was he supposed to do, hey?

Anyway, whilst this is a good thing, it may not necessarily end the war. They could all give up and surrender, or they could now fight to the death - All or nothing.

I thought the newsflash showing it all was annoying. Half an hour of good TV wasted, showing the same footage of him getting a lice check, and a mouth check 5 or 6 times. It regurgitated a whole ton of useless information, the people spoke like dimwits [probably for interpreters benefit, I know] and yeah... Maybe since I am Australian I don't find this that big a deal. They caught him. Cheer and rejoice, now buckle down. It isn't over yet.

Oh... some reporter asked what were the first words Saddam said when he was caught.

My mum reckoned it was probably "Oh ****, you got me."

Or "Ok, now you go and hide" *turns to wall* "1,2,3..."

Anyway... yeah. He's been caught, now what? He should be tried in an Iraqi court, because they would have the ability to kill him. The American's should not get him because if they hang him or whatever, there will be a huge political disaster. I would hope the Americans would not be so dense as to kill him.

[The Vampire: Ed]

[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by Baron Samedi [/i]
[B]Actually, you're wrong there TVE. He wasn't in Tukrit, he was in an isolated farmhouse [i]near[/i] Tukrit. He was in a secret room therein, which they found by a breathing pipe and exhaust fan. In there, he was hiding in a spiderhole, which is basically a readymade coffin. 6 feet deep, long enought to lay down in and covered over. He wasn't in any damn position to attack, he was unarmed, lying on the ground. What the hell was he supposed to do, hey? [/B][/QUOTE]

Well, all I've been hearing from reporters is "Saddam has finally been captured, he was hiding in a basement of a home." I didn't hear about it being outside of his home town, but either way it's still in the general area. As for what he was supposed to do, well...nothing. I didn't expect him to do anything, but the thing I'm taking about is that the man sat at his little desk telling the world he would die before he'd be captured. Sure, he wouldn't have been able to fight back all that much, but you know had the opportunity to do something to one of them. Like I said, I didn't expect him to do anything, but it just shows that he's just all talk when he's not actually in the situation.

But I agree that the Iraqis should get him to put on trial. They had the suffer because of him, so it's their every right to decide his fate.

[Guest cloricus]

TVE what's with the personal attacks today?
[quote]Just for the hell of it.[/quote]To retain power you must, in a dictator situation, instil fear in people and destroy groups that revolt. It was not done "just for the hell of it" but for the purpose of holding onto power.[quote]That alone makes him a coward.[/quote]How?[quote]"I won't be taken alive."[/quote]What did you expect him to say? "Oh jolly good show my forces are putting up, fighting you old chaps but once I'm found I'm just going to give myself over to get my arse kicked." That is just moral boosting sort of talk, and chances are he was feed that stuff by advisors. As Samedi has pointed out he wasn't in a position to fight and even now he is more important alive than dead for the forces fighting for him, it could have been strategic, logical or he just didn't have a gun handy. You don't know the situation so you cannot call him a coward.[quote]I'm just glad they caught him.[/quote]I am to, now hopefully the Iraqis can give him a fair and just trial. (Though I wouldn't support the death penalty as a result of any ruling.)[quote]Normal life without fearing their so called leader.[/quote]Without a stable controlling force the country would collapse, they don't even have electricity. Pulling out ASAP is not a good thing when the country can't sustain its self yet. They need to stay until the job is done.[quote]What the hell took them so long? ... Shouldn't that have been the first place they looked?[/quote]It was one of the first if I remember the CNN report at the time, thing is he was moving around the whole time. The reason they caught him this time (according to the NBS stream) was because he used the same taxi car and driver for a prolonged time and some Kurds noticed and tipped off the army.

[Harry]

[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by The Vampire: Ed [/i]
[B], shouldn't that have been the first place they looked? I mean it's just common sense really. [/B][/QUOTE]
He was hiding in a whole under a random shack in the woods, it wasn't that obvious you know.

[The Vampire: Ed]

[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by cloricus [/i]
[B]TVE what's with the personal attacks today?[/b][/quote]

I apologize, I just haven't been in a good mood lately and I ended up bringing it to the boards.

[quote][b]To retain power you must, in a dictator situation, instil fear in people and destroy groups that revolt. It was not done "just for the hell of it" but for the purpose of holding onto power.[/b][/quote]

Yes, that is ture, but still he would have more loyalty if he didn't do the things that he has done to his people. Instead of his people cheering his capture, they probably would have been more willing to help him.

[quote][b]How?[/b][/quote]

Well, I just think it's a cowardly thing to do. To murder an innocent person to scare the rest of them so he can treat them like a flock of sheep.

[quote][b]What did you expect him to say? "Oh jolly good show my forces are putting up, fighting you old chaps but once I'm found I'm just going to give myself over to get my arse kicked." That is just moral boosting sort of talk, and chances are he was feed that stuff by advisors. As Samedi has pointed out he wasn't in a position to fight and even now he is more important alive than dead for the forces fighting for him, it could have been strategic, logical or he just didn't have a gun handy. You don't know the situation so you cannot call him a coward.[/b][/quote]

Well, that is true. He could have just been reading what his advisors wrote. It's an attempt to rise moral, but at the same time it's not doing him much good having the reputation he has with his people. I still consider him a coward for murdering his people, and if he was thinking moral this type of action wasn't going to help. Maybe motivate them not to fail though.

[quote][b]I am to, now hopefully the Iraqis can give him a fair and just trial. (Though I wouldn't support the death penalty as a result of any ruling.)[/b][/quote]

Well, I think the Iraqis should definitely get Saddam for trial, but I don't know if they'd give him a fair and just trail. I mean, they are fully capable of it, but with all of the pain and suffering he's caused them, I wouldn't be surprised if they did give him the death penalty. I wouldn't have a problem with that, but then again that's just my opinion.

[quote][b]Without a stable controlling force the country would collapse, they don't even have electricity. Pulling out ASAP is not a good thing when the country can't sustain its self yet. They need to stay until the job is done.[/b][/quote]

I didn't think of that. You're right. But hopefully we won't have to hear about anymore blood shed, but that's probably asking for too much.

[quote][b]It was one of the first if I remember the CNN report at the time, thing is he was moving around the whole time. The reason they caught him this time (according to the NBS stream) was because he used the same taxi car and driver for a prolonged time and some Kurds noticed and tipped off the army. [/B][/QUOTE]

Ah, I see. Well, that would explain it. But I just wonder how he was able to travel around without being discovered. I figured there was soldiers positioned at the exits to town, but most likely there are more than the most obvious way to get out of the city.

[quote][i]Originally posted by Harry[/i]
[b]He was hiding in a whole under a random shack in the woods, it wasn't that obvious you know.[/b][/quote]

Yeah, but I was talking about his home town in general.

[Dmitri_Dragoon]

Alright, Saddam was captured. Hooray.

I've read this entire thread and have agreements and disagreements.

Firstly, I agree that he should not be tried in America. He didn't break any American laws. Except have his army shoot at us after we invaded. If that is too confusing just think about it for a moment.

When he is tried it should be in Iraq for the crimes he commited in Iraq. Afterwords, he should then be taken to Geneva to face the other International crimes he commited. Then commence with the sentencing.

Surrendering the way he did, was cowardly, but in the long run, wouldn't you rather live? Perhaps this way he can find a way to escape. Not impossible, just improbable.

There is more that I can add to this, but my mind is far to destroyed from work to be able to put my thoughts together. So feel free to criticize what I have typed.

[Harry]

[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by The Vampire: Ed [/i]
[B]

Yeah, but I was talking about his home town in general. [/B][/QUOTE]
You expect them to check every single shack in his home town, even when they knew he was moving about. Also I don't think you saw a picture of this place but it was literally in the middle of nowhere, it's not like it was in a suburb.

[James]

[quote][i]Originally posted by Cloricus:[/i][b]
What did you expect him to say? "Oh jolly good show my forces are putting up, fighting you old chaps but once I'm found I'm just going to give myself over to get my arse kicked." That is just moral boosting sort of talk, and chances are he was feed that stuff by advisors. As Samedi has pointed out he wasn't in a position to fight and even now he is more important alive than dead for the forces fighting for him, it could have been strategic, logical or he just didn't have a gun handy. You don't know the situation so you cannot call him a coward.[/b][/quote]

[color=#707875]Cloricus, you're totally missing the point here.

Firstly, you're telling me that I don't know the situation. Well, that's wrong. I do. Saddam was equipped with a pistol -- but he never used it. He never attempted to use it. So that's the first point.

Secondly, Saddam frequently said that he'd "die as a martyr" for his country. Bzzt, wrong.

And thirdly...I saw them interviewing an Iraqi on the street, who himself said that Saddam is an utter coward for giving up without a fight. It's a cowardly act, in the context of how this guy presented himself to the world in his public persona.

How can you think that this guy is anything other than a coward? I mean, really? I don't see how you can. Are you telling me that gassing women and children isn't a cowardly thing to do? Attacking people who are weaker than you and who can't fight back?

Please.

Right now we're just getting into stupid hair-splitting stuff. The guy is a coward, pure and simple. If you want to continue defending him, or if you want to try and say that he somehow [i]isn't[/i] a coward...that's fine. But if that's the case, I think your definition of cowardice is really in need of review.[/color]

[Kent]

Im with James and that's enough said.

Fact is, right now we are all getting a lesson in true ignorance.

So let's all pay tribute to it and take one more look at that sig of mine.
(Not sorry at all cloricus, but on too many occassions you have been on the wrong side of logic, reason, morality, and ethics.) (if your really willing to support not killing saddam in the name of your own beliefs on human rights, than you should just be quiet and rejoice in his capture)

[Guest cloricus]

I would like to note that I did not say that quote or create that avatar, I believe under copyright you may [b]not[/b] attribute it to myself. Though I have no care if you say I used a avatar that some one else made and I am happy to put it back up to be exactly what it was, a joke.
[quote]You have been on the wrong side of logic.[/quote]I've been on the wrong side of [u]your[/u] logic and opinion; I have no problem with this. I mean you are the one going to the lengths of complaining about it in your sig. Though this is fine if you don't like others side of situations.

[Kent]

Well, sure, what the heck. Have your say and enjoy it.

But [b]Don't take us for fools[/b], everyone here knows and has seen your bush avatar with the "terrorist in cheif" logo.

You [b]did[/b] use an avatar, which I have cited in my signiture... I mean, does the fact that you knew it was from an avatar even though I never mention an avatar show any sort of evidence?

Plus you even back pedaled and tried to say it was a joke.

Or better yet, just leave it to anyone who has been here for more than 3 months.

Go ahead and keep your opinions and continue arguing with me. But do not try and act like that specific qoute was never used.

Anyway, thats about as far off subject as I care to see any thread go.

Sooo... sorry everyone, but I just had to address this subject.

And please mention it if you do remember that avatar.

btw cloricus, does this defensive stance mean your ashamed of your avatar?

[Guest cloricus]

[quote]Everyone here knows and has seen your bush avatar.[/quote]I would expect that they had, I kept it there for several months and it is in plain view for any one who reads my posts. What is your point?[quote]You did use an avatar, which I have cited in my signature... I mean, does the fact that you knew it was from an avatar even though I never mention an avatar show any sort of evidence?[/quote]Slow down and rethink this sentence; please.[quote]You even back pedaled and tried to say it was a joke.[/quote]I told James when he PMed me in concern of how others would take it just after I first put it up and I explained then to him that it was in part a joke and I would explain this to any one who raised it with me, though I have had only a positive response to it. I do not see the original goal of it to be back-pedalling.[quote]Keep your opinions.[/quote]I thought I just said I was going too? Never mind...[quote]But do not try and act like that specific qoute was never used.[/quote]Are you sure you are reading the same thing as me here, I am only saying that I'm not the original author of it and only a means of republication.[quote]Sooo... sorry everyone, but I just had to address this subject.[/quote]If you are sorry to people here why did you not conduct this in PM which I believe in future should be done as this is far off topic. Really we've both had a chance to respond to each other in the public area, now if you wish to continue move it out to privet. Thank you.
[quote]btw cloricus, does this defensive stance mean your ashamed of your avatar?[/quote][quote]I am happy to put it back up.[/quote]

[Kent]

First off, don't give me lessons on where discussions belong. (pm vs open board. You should take your own advice and keep it in a pm if your gonna get on me about that.)

Second and more importantly.

You are missing the point.

It's not about what you were quietly intending the avatar to achieve or who made it... [b]it's about the fact that you used it, were proud of it[/b], and didn't express it to be a joke to anyone besides (as you claim) james.

I liked your use of qoutes, but I don't really think it achieved anything.

You say it's a joke, you insinuate your proud to use the avatar.

I think it was never a joke. (unless you mean an insult at my president's expense)

To me, your arguments and replies are nothing but a waste of internet space.

And once again, I am sorry for doing this sort of thing on the board, but I just can't let cloricus's comments go uncontended.

btw, did I mention that I think the stock market is gonna go up big time today? Well I do think that. Just a guess though.

[Guest Crimson Spider]

Why would anyone defend Saddam is beyond me. "The guys hobby was rape..." said one news reporter.

We would have to send him through their legal system simply because American Prisoners are noble... to a certain degree. They think there was a good reason for the car they ripped off, or the man they murdered. If Saddam were to go to our prisons, he would HAVE to be put in isolation, because the other inmates would kill him.

I guess he surrendered because of intelligence. I don't know about how much contact he had with the outside world, but I'm guessing that he knew that his sons died because they fought back. If he even fired one shot, it would've bounced off of a kevlar-insolated army suit and then had a clip of rifle bullets emptied into him. I guess he weighed the outcomes: execution with extream prejudice, or capture and punishment with extream prejudice.

But I really don't know what our nation plans now that Saddam is caught. Chances are, we are going to steadily spend money and have our army stay in their nation for more of a time to take out rebellious Saddam supporters, and help to establish a government.

EDIT: PS; I've only skimmed through the 3 pages, so if what I've said has already been mentioned, then don't attack me on it.

[Heaven's Cloud]

[color=indigo]I haven?t been on in a few days so I missed out on most of this stellar debate, although I really don?t understand what is being debated. Regardless, I shall put in my two cents.

I think that Saddam?s capture will definatly help to bring this war to a halt. The remaining resistance was comprised of Iraqi?s that were long time supporters of Saddam (the few that fed off the toils of the many) and those that believed Saddam was a larger than life figure that defeated the US once and would do it again. Now that he is captured I think that the resistance will fizzle out and die.

I am glad that Saddam allowed himself to be captured instead of shooting a solider and getting himself killed, and I would absolutely love it if the Iraqi people tried him and sentenced him to life without a chance of parole. That way he will never get to be a martyr, he?ll just die a sad, pathetic old man.

I feel that Saddam needs to be tried in Iraq, but I also think he needs to be tried by the UN regardless of Iraq?s outcome. Obviously if the Iraqi people convict him (which will more than likely occur, then again OJ got off, lol) this will be a formality. However, even formalities can be necessary, especially since the UN has been in a bit of disarray lately.

Well, those are my thoughts. I really didn?t add anything to the discussion I guess, but sometimes that is just how it goes :). [/color]

[Chaos]

A shame Cloricus couldn't put his voice to good use, eh? Like heating my house.

My myOtaku account sums it up fairly. Do check it out. I would copy/paste it, but I'm a lazy, good-for-nothing.

[Justin]

I actually expect to see a brief spike in terrorist activity and resistance in Iraq after this. Note the 'brief' in that staement.

Anyway, I don't see how this couldn't be a good thing...

-Justin

[Chaos]

Well, there was that explosion a mere few minutes after Bush gave his speech, but whatever.

[Guest cloricus]

[size=1]Well I'm rather disappointed that my last reply to Gokents was deleted as I put a bit of effort into it and used it to defend my point, that he raised, and now that it is gone so it looks like I backed out and his points are correct. I'd like to say this is not the case and he has taken it into PM. (Hopefully it wont go on much further as the reasons for it are just silly.)[/size]

Voice for good, hmmm okay let?s see. I'll ask the question "Where are the WMD?"
Saddam has been quoted to say he didn't have any only a day ago. It has been long enough now to search the country. It's not like searching for a needle in a hay stack, it's like looking for a tennis ball in a hay stack; easy to find once you have a bit of a look.
And if the USA doesn't find any why isn?t it getting in trouble, lots of it. (So should all countries involved, including Australia.) They [b][i][u]INVADED[/u][/i][/b] a country for no reason at all as it wasn?t posing a threat, it doesn?t even have enough oil to pay off ?war damages?.
Of course you can't use "he's an evil dictator" because I will be telling you to go off and fight all the other, and easier, dictators to remove who have and are more evil to their people than that old man Saddam.
(To see list view my post in the last thread like this, if there is public demand I will repost it here.)

Sure it?s nice to catch him but why did we lose our troops going after him in the first place?