Gaming The Legend of Zelda: The Wind Waker

[Desbreko]

[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by GinnyLyn [/i]
[B]I cite the [spoiler]Queen Fairy[/spoiler] incident.[/B][/QUOTE]
[color=indigo]Haha! I loved the look on Link's face at the end of that cutscene, when the King of Red Lions looks back at him. That was great. :laugh:

I agree, TWW does have a lot more depth of character, and I love it. You can actually tell what the characters are feeling, by their expressions. It also makes for more funny scenes, like the one mentioned in the last paragraph.

And that's another thing that sets TWW above OOT, for me. About the only look Link had in OOT--besides his normal look, that is--was a shocked look, usually accompanied by a startled jump. It worked okay for OOT, but it's just so much better in TWW.[/color]

[James]

[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by GinnyLyn [/i]
[B]Who do I blame for the miserable camera angle that keeps turning me away from the Mario series constantly? >.<

[/B][/QUOTE]

[color=#808080]Oh surely you're not serious. ~_^

The camera system in the Mario games is superb! Especially in Super Mario Sunshine -- it doesn't hold your hand, it gives you full control. I really enjoyed that once I got used to it.

And then there's the whole issue of you being turned away from stellar games simply because of the camera alone...tsk tsk. ~_^

Anyway...it's funny how the stylized graphics actually combine with the physics to make something quite realistic. In some ways, I did find this game more realistic than GTAIII. Just look at the fire temple (I have no idea what the name of it is), where you see the ash floating around on the wind. It's really subtle, but done so well.[/color]

[GinnyLyn]

*thwaps James for the second time* ^_~
I do NOT like the Mario series, period. And the camera angle didn't help, either. There's just something that never captivated me about helping a fat Italian plumber jump around all over the place (OK, maybe the RPG ones were good, but other than that, pah! OK OK, I [i]loved[/i] Yoshi's Island, but that's enough of that topic).

As for the ash, when it floats, I wasn't all that impressed. [i]However[/i], when it floats on the pond, [i]that[/i] is the impressive part. And I've already pointed out the realistic body movement.

Sadly, I'm not being impressed as much as I hoped, for some reason. Desbreko and I were talking about [i]Wind[/i] last night, and we both commented on the strange lack of dungeons, or at least the diminuitive number of them. Sure, there's a lot of exploring to be done, but each bit seems a little too short and sweet. I don't want forever lasting dungeons like [i]Mask[/i] (I do NOT have 3 hours to spend in one place, thank you), but the dungeons I've been in don't seem nearly as brain busting as the ones I've remembered all the way back to [i]Past[/i].

*dodges tomatoes and sharp objects*

Don't get me wrong--I love this game in and of itself. But it's starting to slip downward on my favorite Zeldas list. (It still holds a high place in games overall for me--Zelda games always do.)

With any kind of luck, a completion of the game will see a modified opinion of this.

[Semjaza]

I am sticking with what I said. I'm not citing anyone here at OB, but when people mention this game in general it's simply "Miyamoto this" and "Miyamoto that." His role in these games is downplayed more than ever, yet he is getting more of the credit than he ever has. It doesn't make sense to me. In my opinion, the series has gotten far better since Aonuma got more heavily involved... However, I seem to be in the minority that thinks Majora is one of the best Zelda games ever (and it too had far more characterization than any other Zelda game before it). There are tons of people that are not given enough credit at Nintendo, but we're talking only about Zelda. Considering that Aonuma wanted the cel shading as he thought it would show emotions and such better, I'd be willing to say he was the one responsible for getting more characterization and expression into this game personally.


Anyway, what I think about this game...

I don't feel that LttP is that much more difficult dungeon wise. Most of the puzzles in the game consist of you hitting a switch under a pot or pulling levers. The only thing that caught me the first time through was that stupid Ice Temple.

There just seems to be so many cut corners in terms of gameplay. Instead of doing a decent dungeon to some important items, you just have to make your way through a single room. The first two dungeons were so well done and simply massive, and everything since then has been a let down. They are about half the size as the first two it seems, and they reuse the same puzzle ideas several times over (I did like the puzzle in the Earth Temple though, at least it required brain power). But what is that... maybe 6 dungeons total? We're used to almost twice that. I wouldn't care if they were all as impressive as the first two... but they just aren't if you ask me.

I'm under the impression that there is only one more big area (which means one more dungeon) after where I am at... which is too bad. The lack of dungeons hurt the game, but thankfully there is so much other stuff to do. On the other hand, most of it is extremely tedious... and it's made even more tedious because sailing anywhere takes forever (and the Gales doesn't help much). In the starting areas, I could leave and get some food downstairs... and when I get back, Link still isn't there.

And then we get into how EASY this game is. I don't expect to be dying every 5 minutes... but seriously, has anyone died [i]at all[/i]? I've not even been close to dying yet. Enemies take at most, 1/2 a heart from you when they attack in general... and that even goes for bosses. Yet, a giant pig you can attack on Outset will take 3 hearts off in one run at you. This game is hurt from its lack of challenge I think. OoT was also easy, so was Majora (to a lesser extent)... but this is like childishly easy in that regard.

At the same time it can be so frustrating... Having to go between tiny islands to do things becomes a chore, like I was saying. Getting those [spoiler] triforce charts is mostly tedium. And then when you are done doing the stupid task to get the chart, you have to go all the way to Tingle's island to get them deciphered[/spoiler]. Bleh.

The game does a lot of things right though... Like I said, the first few dungeons are among the best in the series I think. The graphics are beautiful. I know I wasn't the only one amazed when you first go to the entrance of that fire dungeon. Link is more likable than ever I think, and I love all the stupid little expressions he makes. The translation is also pretty good, and a lot of characters were captured really well.

It's a mixed bag, but despite all that stuff I complained about... I still think it is an excellent game and I have enjoyed it far more than OoT, which I personally think is severely overrated.

[James]

[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by Semjaza Azazel [/i]
[B]I am sticking with what I said. I'm not citing anyone here at OB, but when people mention this game in general it's simply "Miyamoto this" and "Miyamoto that." His role in these games is downplayed more than ever, yet he is getting more of the credit than he ever has. It doesn't make sense to me. In my opinion, the series has gotten far better since Aonuma got more heavily involved... However, I seem to be in the minority that thinks Majora is one of the best Zelda games ever (and it too had far more characterization than any other Zelda game before it). There are tons of people that are not given enough credit at Nintendo, but we're talking only about Zelda. Considering that Aonuma wanted the cel shading as he thought it would show emotions and such better, I'd be willing to say he was the one responsible for getting more characterization and expression into this game personally.


[/B][/QUOTE]

[color=#808080]I think it's natural for Miyamoto to get some of the credit. And I do think he's getting credit where it's due -- though admittedly, the lay audience is often citing Miyamoto, when in fact they're talking about something created by another designer.

Your comment about Aonuma wanting to show the emotions better and stuff...that's not quite accurate. If you look at the Space World video of 2000, you'll find that this was [i]actually[/i] what was planned in terms of graphics. The original plan had always been to produce an "extension" of Ocarina of Time in terms of style.

It was Miyamoto who was concerned with this and who wanted a fresh and "more expressive" approach. Once again, I repeat what I said -- Miyamoto built the table, Aonuma put the objects on that table. The table, or brief, was for a more expressive game. Miyamoto didn't want an adult link with earrings -- he wanted a mischevious little boy. And Aonuma followed this line of thought and introduced the cel-shading technique and the current visual style as we know it (and rightly so).

I hope that clarifies the Aonuma/Miyamoto thing. I'll even copy and paste the expansive IGN Insider interview and highlight specific parts if you want; there are many references (and often specific descriptions) of what Miyamoto and Aonuma's respective roles were.

Fundamentally though, I do agree; Aonuma does not get enough credit. I adored Majora's Mask and I consider it to be my second favourite Zelda title (Link to the Past first, Ocarina of Time third -- don't know about Wind Waker yet, obviously).

In terms of the older games...I do think that as a general rule, people tend to look through rose coloured glasses -- whether intentionally or not. If you go back and play LttP and directly compare elements with TWW, I think that the comparisions are pretty stark.

However, it's important to note that such comparisons are usually unfair. It's very hard to compare OoT with TWW, in the sense that TWW [i]should[/i], by rights, be the superior game. It was developed after OoT and utilized the experience and lessons learned during development of that game. The natural progression is, ideally, that each new game improves on its predecessor.

Of course, that's not always the case. But, I don't think that the Zelda games have necessarily gotten better or worse -- they're sort of different each time. In addition, it's very hard to compare LttP with OoT or TWW, because each game is actually quite unique. Plus, we're not necessarily talking about which game is better as such (because that's so very subjective); I think most people are referring to the feelings they have when playing each game.

So for example, when I first played OoT, I had this massive sense of wonder and excitement...so it holds fond memories for me. But, I have even stronger positive memories of MM (which is why it's my second favourite). But my most happy memories of a Zelda game are definitely LttP -- in the sense that it took me the longest to beat and I found it to be thoroughly enjoyable all the way through. I never really came across many horribly tedious moments.

So it's all relative. It's about how you felt when playing the games and what elements you value most. Yes, people do tend to look through rose coloured glasses at old games...but sometimes the newer games also fail to capture the magic of the older titles.

Having said that, I'm not one of those "old school is always best" kind of people. I don't subscribe to the idea that all old school games were better and that we were living in a "golden age" of video gaming. I tend to find that newer games are far better designed than their older counterparts in terms of being more balanced and offering more variety. Of course, that's all based on the experience of designers and the changes in the market...it's really another discussion.

[/color]

[GinnyLyn]

Tedium.

That's it--that's what the problem is. You're doing the same stuff over and over again, in the same way. And that's not supposed to happen in a Zelda not. Not often, anyway.

I'm reminded of my big Spyro let down I had last year. [i]Spyro: Year of the Dragon[/i] had to be the BEST of the series, so naturally I was looking forward to the PS2 version. I expected to be wowed like usual (considering that each Spyro was better than the last, but each also had room to improve in, too). Anyways, the first tipoff should have been the multisystem offering. The other--that Insomniac's name was not anywhere on the game.

Intense tedium soon followed. Sure, the graphics were much better, the original idea was clever, but...tedium.

To be honest, [i]Wind Waker[/i] is doing much better in comparison to the rest of its series than [i]Enter the Dragonfly[/i] did to the Spyro series. I know that comparing games is not the best idea. However, when you come to expect something from a series, and don't, you can tell when it is missing.

I like that the three Spirit Gems were different in [i]Ocarina[/i]; three pearls make sense considering the storyline, but still... And then there is the search for [spoiler]only two Sages? I felt really cheated at that point. [i]Ocarina[/i] had us looking for 6 (actual hunting for 5, and finding 7 in [i]Past[/i]).[/spoiler] I know, I know--stop comparing the one game to the other.

I still love [i]Wind Waker[/i] lots. In fact, I'm off to go challenge the Wind Temple again. But there's still something missing.

[Desbreko]

[color=indigo]Okay, this is really weird. Sometimes me or my brother will be playing The Wind Waker, and when we go through a door or something where it has to load a bit, the GCN will occasionally make a weird noise and then an error message will pop up telling you to turn the power off. I've checked both the disc and the lens on my GCN, and both are clean, so I have no idea what's causing this, as it seems to just happen at random. It's never happened with any other game, either, just The Wind Waker.

Has anyone else had this problem? And if so, have you been able to fix it?[/color]

[Mei]

[color=green]GAAAAAHHHHH! I'm having that problem too.Oo But it's with every game we have. It started when my brother rented Mario Party 4...and its just been doing that ever since. That's why I'm not very far on Wind Waker even though I got it two days early.-- *shakes fist at Gamecube* Darn thing...what you need to do is send it in....that's the only way. We've tried cleaning our disks, and our gamecube, vacuuming and blowdrying the dust away, but it seems to be an internal problem that the gamecube itself has after you've had it a while. To send it in go to [url]http://www.nintendo.com[/url] and go to the customer service thingy. Click on gamecube and what info you need to send it in. Fill out all their things and get ready to say byebye to zee Gamecube for a week or two. We just sent ours in...hopefully they can tell us whats wrong.

AND, if your Gamecube isn't under warranty anymore, you sadly, have to pay 75$ to get it fixed. Now I live in America, and I'm really not sure where you live, but if you don't live in America or Canada, you'll have to be directed to another Nintendo site.^^() That's all I can say for now. Hope I helped you a lil.Oo[/color]

[Turkey]

It happened to me a few weeks ago. I gave the console (especially the lens) a very good cleaning, and it all fixed.

[Semjaza]

I've actually heard of a few people having this problem with WW... Strange.

I've yet to have any real problems with my GC though, and I've had mine since launch day.

[Desbreko]

[color=indigo]Yeah, I live in America, so I could send it in if I wanted. I don't have $75, though.

I think I'll try cleaning off the system. It is a bit dusty, though not very much. What should I use to clean the lens, though? I'm thinking just a slightly damp cloth, like you'd use to clean the discs. Would that work?[/color]

[Mei]

[color=green]Ok I'd say if you aren't going to send it in, and just clean it, then use a small maybe SLIGHTLY damp cloth, but make sure no water drops into the system.^^()(that's obvious though). Make sure to clean off all your disks as well with a smooth cloth or actual CD cleaners you can buy for like...5 dollars at best buy. I'd suggest the CD cleaners personally.

Also if your gamecube is still under warranty(you can check on the nintendo site) then you can send it in for free. But otherwise, I'd start raising up some money if cleaning doesn't work.Oo[/color]

[Desbreko]

[color=indigo]Nope, I got my GCN on Christmas 2001, so the warrenty is long expired. If it came down to it, I would just pay the money, though. I don't think I'd be able to live without my GCN. :toothy:

Well, last night I cleaned out all the dust in my system house and on the GCN itself, and wiped off the lens with a soft cloth [i]very carefully.[/i] Then this morning, I played for about eight hours straight with no problem, so I'm hoping for the best.[/color]

[Ninjaman]

Hey, I got the same problem too when I was trying to leave a dungeon. I was afraid I was going to be permanently stuck in there! I think I'd better clean the lens also.

[Brasil]

Hasn't happened to me with WW. I find during Timesplitters 2 it occasionally locks up when loading in one of my huge custom map maker levels...which really does annoy me, because I'm positive those maps are now corrupted...a good four hours of design sucked out of my day.
I've had one problem with a controller, but only due to dog hair on the connectors.
I say, Cube components can take a beating.

[Desbreko]

[color=indigo]Yeah, Nintendo's stuff has always been able to take quite a beating and still work decently. I've heard about a GBC getting dropped from five stories up onto cement and still working.

Anyway, I've played quite a bit since cleaning out my system and system house, and I haven't had an error since, so I think that fixed it. I suppose I really should clean the dust out from around my systems more often anyway, so this'll provide some incentive to get off my butt and do it, heh.[/color]

[prestongraff]

I never have any problems with my Gcn but my friend always does. An error message kept coming on with ww last time I came over. (he said it happens every 45 minutes)

[Krillen]

Hey guys, whats up?

Just thought Id ask you guys how far you've gotten on The Wind Waker.

The first time I beat it, I had 19 hearts with 3/4 of a heart. The last piece of heart was very hard. I had to hit Orca 500 times before he hit me. The closest I got was 436. I didnt have the patients so I went ahead and beat it with all of the sidequest items gained, all bottles, all treasure chests, etc.

Im playing it my second time around with the cool Tropical Pajammas. Im beginning to wonder if Im wasting my time though, I meen gee, ive already beaten it once. I have no money as usual and cant buy another game.

So how are you guys doing witht he game?

[Desbreko]

[color=indigo]I've been lazy about collecting the last Heart Container Pieces (I need 11 more), so I haven't beaten it yet. Once I get all 20 hearts I'll go and beat it, and then I'll have done everything but get all of the figurines in the Nintendo Gallery. I plan on doing that on the second quest, though.

Also, another reason why I haven't gotten those last Heart Container Pieces yet is because I've been playing my GBASP and Metroid Fusion a lot lately. So that's been kind of distracting me, though I'm planning on playing TWW some more tonight.[/color]

[Semjaza]

I beat it within the first five days of owning it. I have no interest in getting all the heart containers, as the last battles are so easy that you don't even need 10 hearts, let alone 20.

I also found most of the extras in the game to be horribly mundane, so I have no plans to do those either. That's me though.

So yeah, long time now.

[Krillen]

Oh yah, I did forget about those figurines.

I am not going to collect those I dont think, it would take way too long, plus, you can only hold 3 pictographs at a time, which meens every 3 Pics you take, you have to run all the way back to the Forest Haven.

I just dont have the patients.

[Charles]

Oh man, I purchased the game the day before the official release, and I've still not gotten around to beating it.

Right now, I'm in the wind temple. After that, I'll have restored the power to repel evil to the master sword. So, I'm pretty far in the game. I doubt that I've uncovered even seventy-five percent of what the game has to offer and I know that I will never explore every secret. The game is so easy that I doubt I'll need all the heart pieces and whatnot to finish it.

I'll probably complete it sometime in May; it'll be the first game I've completed in a while. I must say that I've enjoyed it a lot. I didn't have as much fun playing it as I did with OOT, but it's cool nonetheless.

[Dragonballzman]

Let's see...I've gotten 0% through the game. ^_^ And I won't get any further until 3rd May. Why, you ask? Because England sucks.

[Syk3]

When I beat it, I had 17 and 3/4 hearts, and was tired of trying to get everything. It was fun to get those heart containers, but I was both too lazy and too tired of my friend telling me how he beat it to care about the rest. The one you are talking about, hitting the old guy 500 times, that was actually pretty easy for me. The first time, he asked me to hit him a hundred times, so I did, and when he asked me to hit him 300 times, I saw what was going on and just hit him as many times as I could. I got bored at around 700 and stopped, and he declared me a swordsman, etc. All I did was wait patiently and keep my sheild out most of the time.

As for the photographs, I don't know who would have the patients to do all of that. I did about 3, and that was enough for me. v.v If I did, though, [spoiler]you start out with the delux pictograph on the hard file anyway.[/spoiler]

And then the rest, I pretty much got...I think. I got all the bombs and arrows, as well as the magic and ruppee upgrades. The only thing I missed I believe was the submarine chart and whatever was on all of those ghost ships other than the first one. I also didn't get all the treasure maps.

[Krillen]

Oh man, the shield, I forgot about that one. Hahah! I've only been using B attacks and Parry Attacks, guess I should try using that shield.

Hah, I tried using a fairy once and it didnt work.

It angered me even more because my Prima strat. guide said to get the piece of heart you hit him 300 times, so I did and I got an orange ruppee instead. I was so mad!