Art A simple question

[Kinetic]

[size=1]This post may be considered offensive to some and I may (and most likely will) seem self-centered and rude. It's pertaining to my work and why many people seem to hate it. Of course, there are the kind people that reply to my threads and I try to reply to many as well, but I can't understand why certain threads (including my own) can be seen by so many people and not replied to. This isn't actually concerning only me, for this happens to many threads.

The question being, is our work really so horrible that it doesn't deserve a reply?

I may seem hypocritical since I haven't been replying to other peoples' threads lately, but that's changing because I'm gaining more free time every day. I believe that if someone posts a piece of art (any type of art) that took effort (and some that even don't) deserve recognition to make the artist feel at ease and proud of themselves.

I used to be one of the people that would just go into threads, view peoples' work and leave without critiquing or giving suggestions. It was when I found out what it was like to not have any replies that I finally started to help people out and give them the heartwarming comments that they justly hope for and deserve.

What I'm trying to say, is it truly an inconvenience to reply to these threads of ours that we wished to gain advice and praise for?

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[AzureWolf]

My philosophy at this forum (most of the time) is, "if you can't say anything helpful, why bother?" I saw that thread about the contest art you made, but there was no reason for anyone to reply. Why? Because it's the same thing as all your other pieces. That's not to say it's bad, but you already know what we think of your style, and if there's ultimately nothing new, we also have nothing new to say.

Hope that helps. Again, it's not that your work is bad - no, I think it's really awesome (really cool stuff), but making too few variations doesn't give us enough to realize that you are doing something different.

[Kinetic]

[size=1]I understand your point of view, but this isn't only about me. I've seen countless threads go unanswered and I have replied to them myself (not only on this forum, but many others), just to give the artist a little recognition.

About my art, I agree that alot of it is the same, but that's only because the three last pieces I've made have been with the same style. My work varies alot (you would see if I posted the link to my portfolio, but I'm currently cleaning it out), but yes, the last 3 banners I have posted have all been the same style (well, two were and another was majorly different).

That still doesn't mean that an artist doesn't deserve recognition. I don't always have to be appreciated here, because I am appreciated in many other forums and communities, but other people also go unrecognized and it's not pleasant.

E D I T: And another thing is, just because someone's art has the same style most of the time, that doesn't mean every banner is the same and can't be given different critique. Most people have a certain [i]style[/i] to their work, but each piece is unique and different and deserves to be critiqued just as much as any other piece.
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[Baron Samedi]

As with everything... people will reply when they feel like it. Someone once said that people wouldn't reply if your work was too bad, or too good.

I don't think this is true. I too know what it is like to get one reply to a piece of work that you thought was excellent. But you can't make people reply. Mayhap they feel that they have nothing to say? Maybe it just doesn't 'do it' for them. Yet they have no reason. I like your work, thought it is commonly very similar.

I'll reply if I feel like it, if I feel I can help, or if I feel very impressed. I often like your work... but there isn't always something to say. I disagree on a fundamental basis with just saying 'Awesome banner. Great work'. I need to be able to comment more specifically, or to be able to suggest improvements. Thats how I feel on the matter.

If there isn't something to say about the work... no matter how good it is, they won't say anything.

[Kinetic]

[size=1]I also understand your viewpoint and agree with most points. I am also a fan of your work (especially your current banner and avatar set, props for that). But that's what critiquing is all about, finding strengths and weaknesses in the piece and commenting on how they could be repaired and mended.
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[AzureWolf]

[quote]About my art, I agree that alot of it is the same, but that's only because the three last pieces I've made have been with the same style. My work varies alot (you would see if I posted the link to my portfolio, but I'm currently cleaning it out), but yes, the last 3 banners I have posted have all been the same style (well, two were and another was majorly different)

E D I T: And another thing is, just because someone's art has the same style most of the time, that doesn't mean every banner is the same and can't be given different critique. Most people have a certain style to their work, but each piece is unique and different and deserves to be critiqued just as much as any other piece.[/quote] I'm not trying to say that you lack diversity in your art, but when I've said everything I could about a particular style and can't come up with anything more (especially if I can't see anything wrong with similiar pieces), then I feel posting again on a different thread is pointless. I also know that every work has something of it's own. However, as Baron has stated, if you can't help the person in any way (because you can't even think of a way it could improve), then giving general kudos seems useless.

[Kinetic]

[size=1]That's the point. "General kudos," are unnecessary. Each and every piece, as I said, has strengths and weaknesses. If you cannot find any flaws, then speak about certain strengthening details that you find interesting. That's what critique is all about (again). People don't post art only for advice, but commonly for praise as well and that's why we should all give it to them in some form.

E D I T: Wow, I just reached 2222 posts for the third time. o_O I must be posting in threads that get deleted alot.
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[Hittokiri Zero]

Hmmm.... one of the biggest thing is that there aren't very many good graphic artists here, and because of that most people just skip over many threads and only reply to their "friends" threads. It's quite sad actually... There's not really much that can be done to change one's personal prefernce though. I've tried to get the same point across as you are by putting [i]dumb[/i] things in my signature and what not but it's really to no avail. Another big thing that i've noticed is that people tend to post soley in their threads and not others -_o. That's another big problem... If you want more replies I reccomend posting in other peoples threads as well although there's really no sure guarantee that you'll automatically get more replies like this... *sighs* past my bedtime j/k... >_>... That's really all I have to say off the top of my head though...

[SasukeUchiha]

I dont really mind, you should just look at how many times the image was downloaded, that shows how many people came and took the time to view the art that you posted. I dunno I do not really show it for other people, if I get one reply to it I am pretty much pleased that at least one person saw it and liked it.

[Haze]

*thanks God someone finally was able to start a thread like this* I have been waiting for something like this. It happens to me all of the time. Like my current thread: 21 replies, viewed 265. How can so many people look at the stuff then not comment? It makes you feel very underappreciated. I have never been one for the useless comments so when I am saying good job, I say everything I like about the stuff. And usually after I keep looking back I can find some minor flaw that will help them. Or even if I don't find a flaw or two, the people still know what their strengths are so they can do it again and make good stuff.

Sasuke, I hate doing that. It just makes me mad that so many people would download it and just not bother. It is a waste, in my opinion, to post it and get a few looks but no posts.

I think we need some posts here. I mean, if you look at somebody's work and you took the time to look, why not take the time to post a simple reply as to why you did/did not like it. Not that hard.

heh. I might post more later. I'm gonna be late for school if I keep at it. >_<
-haze

P.S. Kinetic, I like that. [I]Each and every piece, as I said, has strengths and weaknesses[/I] Sounds like a fortune cookie. O.o

[SasukeUchiha]

Haze_Gundam006 you make a good point, but this is a message board and even in the art forum, most people just want to see it. You need to join a community specifically driven to comment and critique peoples work. Oh and I meant to ask you in my Wp thread are you part of deviantart?

[DeadSeraphim]

[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by SasukeUchiha [/i]
[B]Haze_Gundam006 you make a good point, but this is a message board and even in the art forum, most people just want to see it. You need to join a community specifically driven to comment and critique peoples work. Oh and I meant to ask you in my Wp thread are you part of deviantart? [/B][/QUOTE]

That is a good suggestion actually, though I'd probably recommend Art Conspiracy a little more. It is possible to belong to more than one forum. As to the original question, my answer would be that some people are simply taught that when you have nothing good to say, say nothing at all. As for the great art that gets posted here and never commented on I don't know. Have you considered the large number of people who just browse around as 'visitor'? That might account for high viewings.

[SasukeUchiha]

I actually never thought aboutt he visitors. That is a good point though. It kind of explains why alot of people would not comment...they basically can't. But I still do not think that the Majority of people who do stumble into the posts are visitors.

[haruno_sakura]

Personally, I don't really care if I get replies or not. I do put some art out there, and if I get replies, great! If I don't, then I don't, and I move on to my next project. It may seem like a nonchalant way of going about things, but most of the art I do is for myself, as selfish as that may seem. As long as I'm happy with the product, it doesn't matter if people like it or not; it's not going to change how I feel about what I've done. I do appreciate when people can tell me how to aesthetically improve my techniques, but the value of my art isn't going to change for me just because I get less replies.

I see your point that it may be discouraging to not get as many replies on work you may have worked hard on, but so long as you're satisfied with what you've done, it shouldn't matter much that others don't have much to say.

I guess my view is that art isn't for recognition (o.0 as idealistic as that may sound...). I used to feel otherwise, but once I realized that I started doing art just to get feedback, I wasn't totally staying true to my belief of art as self-expression, and that changed my attitude. I wasn't happy because I thought my art sucked, but when I found that I depended too much on what others thought, I began to really not care about who was viewing my work so long as I liked what I did. Then I was much more satisfied with my work that the number of replies didn't equate the value of what I felt my project was worth to me.

So I guess what I'm saying is, people will reply when they have something to say, and if they don't, then there's really nothing you can do to make them. Sure, it's always great to know what others think and it's always helpful to get advice on aesthetics so that you can improve, but as long as you're happy with what you've done, the amount of replies shouldn't matter.

That's just my view of this entire thing, and disagree with me if you wish ^_^

[Hittokiri Zero]

Essentially it really depends on the works your posting I guess, for me if I post a signature or what not and get a couple of replies that is okay. Because like Haruno here said in that case the image is really just for me... On the other hand when I post something such as a website layout or the occasional wallpaper I honestly would appreciate some sort of feedback because those two things often take a long time to make (good) and i'm often creating those for others and not myself -_-.

[haruno_sakura]

Hittokiri Zero made a good point about wanting feedback when the work is for someone else like a web layout, but then if that's the case, then maybe you should explain that in the thread heading that it's urgent and explain why feedback would be helpful in the body of the post. I'd feel more inclined to leave feedback if it really was needed for a project. And if anything, you can always ask the person you're making the layout for if they like it or not, and ask why or why not.

But the bottom line is, as much as one would like feedback, there's no way you can force anyone to give it to you. Yes, some may feel unappreciated, but what really matters is that you did your best and you like what you put out, right? ....am I being too optimistic? LOL

~haruno_sakura

[Shizoku]

I just wanted to say that I view a lot of peoples work. But, a lot of times I don't have the time to reply to all of them. Sometimes, I'll tell myself to come back to it later, but i forget.

I don't get that many replys, but the ones I do get are really good. I'm not really great at putting my thoughts into words, so that is also a problem for me :). I don't mind a praise post, because it definatly makes my happy, but if I could choose between a lot of praise posts, or just 2 or 3 really good c&c posts...I'd take the c&c ones.

Trust me people will see you work. They probably think it is really good too. But, sometimes you just don't have the words your looking for when you go to post a reply...Anyone know what I mean? hehe, I'm confusing myself.

I do like you work and many of the people who posted here work. So keep it up, I enjoy seeing it, it gives my great ideas and inspiration for my own work.

Edit: I have now taken the time to post in some of the newer threads and will try to give my feedback as much as possible :)(:

[Syn]

I really couldnt be bothered reading everyones replies and what not, but me and hittokiri have been griping about this for some time.

Now I think about it, I dont think its the fact that people just arent posting, although that is a large factor, its that all the n00 --new people to this forum >>; are making threads for every piece of art they do, instead of sticking to one topic. Resulting in threads being pushed to the back. Obviously this isnt a problem if you're just making the odd topic every now and again but still.

People think that they shouldnt post, in fact, not posting is probably the most offensive thing you can do with art. I mean, if people posted to my art saying bad things about it, fine, at least they took the time, but when you check for replies and see 50 page views and no replies its just down right rude. :/

Bah, we might just sound bitchy but I really think the better artists on this board arent getting the feedback they deserve.

[SasukeUchiha]

Forum rules say not to double post your art in the same thread i believe. And I do not really see many submissions in the art category to begin with.

[Syn]

Yes, the rules say not to double post art, I never said you should double post art, I meant be patient and wait for people to reply first, there really is no need to post all your art at the same time, i mean come on.

If I remember rightly, keeping your art in one thread is encouraged. *shrug*

[haruno_sakura]

[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by Kaisuke [/i]
[B]I really couldnt be bothered reading everyones replies and what not, but me and hittokiri have been griping about this for some time.

Now I think about it, I dont think its the fact that people just arent posting, although that is a large factor, its that all the n00 --new people to this forum >>; are making threads for every piece of art they do, instead of sticking to one topic. Resulting in threads being pushed to the back. Obviously this isnt a problem if you're just making the odd topic every now and again but still.

People think that they shouldnt post, in fact, not posting is probably the most offensive thing you can do with art. I mean, if people posted to my art saying bad things about it, fine, at least they took the time, but when you check for replies and see 50 page views and no replies its just down right rude. :/

Bah, we might just sound bitchy but I really think the better artists on this board arent getting the feedback they deserve. [/B][/QUOTE]

Er, I think this is a contradiction. If it's offensive to see 50 page views w/no replies, isn't it even more offensive to see a thread with replies, and not even read the replies that are already there before stating your opinion, especially in a thread such as this in which a debate has been formed?

As for not posting replies about art, there have been quite a few valid points made on this thread already that counter your perspective on the lack of feedback. As for people not leaving feedback on art being offensive and rude, I feel it's just as offensive and rude (or quite possibly even more so) to skip over everyone else's replies and opinions about the subject just because you 'couldn't be bothered' to read them all.

Anyone could use that same argument and say that they didn't want to comment on anyone's art because they 'couldn't be bothered' with typing out a long drawn-out critique even though they just like looking at others' work.

By saying 'People think they shouldn't post,' is rude in and of itself. You've made a generalization of every single person here on this board and labeled us under one category of 'people.' We are all not the same; we all differ in opinion and interest, and to use a broad generalization such as this, including the one in which you say 'all the n00>>new people,' is as rude as you can possibly get. There are quite a few exceptions in both the generalizations you've made of 'people' and 'n00>>new people' on this board. It is quite presumptuous and self-righteous of you to label me (the n00b that I am) in such a way.

~haruno_sakura

[Dagger]

The main reason that I don't reply to certain threads is because I'm not skilled enough to offer advice on a particular piece, whether it's a banner, web layout, wallpaper, or something else entirely. Kaisuke, Kinetic, and Hittokiri Zero, for example, are all fantastic graphic artists. They have far more experience and talent than I could ever lay claim to. Most of the time, I just don't feel that I'm qualified to post helpful comments about their work. While I may occasionally be able to offer aesthetic criticism, I can't discuss the techniques that they use to create their graphics.

Most threads--regardless of which forum they're found in--have far more views than actual replies. I think it's safe to say that people generally put just as much effort into writing a poem, story, or intelligent rebuttal as they do into making a new banner or wallpaper. Just look at how many poetry threads go unnoticed; not everyone has the time or the knowledge necessary to leave an intelligent reply. So this problem--although I wouldn't really call it that--isn't solely confined to the Art & Design forum.

On a side note, it's often easier to formulate your critique when the artist tells you which specific aspects of his work he wants you to comment on.

~Dagger~

[Semjaza]

I find some of the ideas presented in here rather strange.

How can someone complain about "new" members posting a new topic for each piece of art, when I see so many others who have been here for awhile do the same? I'm not one to name names in general, but many established members posted threads that contain nothing but a single piece of art. I can understand it getting out of control in some cases with other members, but I've never noticed it being that much of a problem. I've seen very few cases (if any) where a new person makes like ten threads in a row for each piece of their work, so I don't know what this is referring to anyway. The thread wouldn't even be pushed off the page by that point... although I do admit that some people seemingly only look at the top 10 or so threads and that's it.

Most people here at OB cannot even really manage to make a great piece of graphics work, and they know it. Some people are also far better at critiqueing than others. I mean, I may see a piece of art in here... but unless I find it incredibly bad or incredibly good, what am I going to say? "Keep practicing!"? Really, I don't think a bunch of spammy posts with little value to them would make anyone feel any better about people looking at their graphics.

I generally only post in graphics threads where I feel something new or interesting has been done. Quite frankly, I have [i]zero[/i] interest in threads that deal with abstract pieces that generally just look like a 3D mess with a photo placed over it. So why would I post in these threads? There's really no reason for me to. I look at a graphic and if it doesn't appeal to me, I'm not going to bother saying something. Really, what would I say anyway? That I am just not into the style? I can't say this in every other thread lol.

By the same token, should I and everyone post in every other thread we look at just so the original poster feels better about their topic creating ability? I only post in threads that interest me and I'll only know that they interest me if I [i]view[/i] them in the first place.

I've done threads on websites I've done and I barely got any replies either. I think wrist cutter and baron samedi were the only ones that ever bothered on a semi-regular basis. I wasn't about to get upset over it all though. It seemed more like people just didn't want to go to another site to view my stuff when they're already on OB. Laziness, I guess. I valued the few really thoughtful posts I've gotten moreso than I would have valued 10 posts kissing my ***.

I mean, maybe the fact that people aren't replying is not a sign that they're dumb or rude. Maybe it's a sign that people are tiring of all this similar art work (as good as it may be, the same idea being refined isn't appealing after awhile). I don't want to sound like a jerk by saying that, but I think that's a good portion of the problem.

For example, I think hittokiri's web site designs are far more worth commenting on than more banners... or that kenji's (kaisuke) graffiti style banners are more worth a comment than his past 3D-ish abstract ones. People just need a change, I guess.

Edit -- I added in some extra stuff for clarification.