A question for the ladies: Chivalry

[DeathBug]

Recently, a friend of mine and I got into a great argument over the concept of chivalry. I've never considered myself to be a super-duper outstanding person, but I like to think that one of my better qualities is that I am chivalrous, or try to be.

You know the drill: holding doors, surrendering preferred seating, allowing a lady to cut me in line, refusing to bring up...certain topics...in mixed company unless the lady brings them up herself.

Anyway, my (male) friend told me that this behavior was outdated and sexist. Now, I hadn't been motivated because I thought the girl couldn't open her own door; I was trying to be polite. However, he told me that by giving girls preferred treatment simply on the basis of gender, I was being sexist.

I didn't think it was sexist, it was simply how I was raised. However, I could hardly be able to be a perfect judge of my own actions.

So I leave the question up to the ladies: what are your feelings on the concept of chivalry? Is it nice? Is it offensive? Is it pushing up dasies? What?

[wiccansamurai]

I think it is a bit outdated. Now, if you have some feelings for the girls *wink* than all that is sweet. But I would feel weird if a guy was giving me special treatment. It would kind of feel a bit fun too... If the guy had a crush on me, anyway. Otherwise it can be a bit weird. Er, but that's just me. And I'm weird.

[BabyGirl]

[color=deeppink]I think chivalry is really rather sweet. My boyfriend of 1+ year still holds doors for me and treats me like the lady that I am. In a world where a lot of girls get screwed over in relationships, it's refreshing that there are some good men out there raising their sons to be curteous to a woman.

It may be outdated in a lot of ways [like standing up every time a woman enters or leaves the room], but random acts of kindness are always appreciated. Men often hold doors for me or let me go in front of them in line, and I don't find that to be sexist, I think they're just being nice.

Maybe people shouldn't worry so much about silly things like that, women should take it as a compliment, not an insult.[/color]

[Semjaza]

I open doors for anyone. I don't care if it is some kid, a lady or an old man. I'm not in such a hurry that I'd ignore them and I don't see what could possibly be "outdated" when you're simply being nice. I'm not thinking "Hey, here's a simple minded female member of the human race. In order to show my obvious intelligence and superiority, I think I should open this door and hold it open for her to enter the building. That'll teach her her place." I just do it because it's nice when people do it for me, honestly.'

Hell, I even have random people hold the door open for [i]me[/i], so I don't see how sexism can be added into the equation. Though I don't want a person not even attempting to hold the door for me when I'm two feet away, either. I try not to do it for others heh.

What's next? People being annoyed if I give my seat on the train to an old woman or a pregnant lady?

[terra]

Like Jenna, I think chivalry is pretty sweet as well. But like Tony said, things like holding the door open can often be thought of simply as politeness, not chivalry. I know I find it a little bit rude if the person in front of me doesn't at least pretend s/he's kind of holding the door for me after s/he's walked through. And I'll never think it's outdated or anything if somebody actually holds the door and lets me go first, even if I don't know them.

I would think that any woman who said "Don't hold the door for me, I'm just as much a citizen as you are!" or anything remotely resembling that would be, er, kind of crazy.

So carry on, young knight. ;)

[Heaven's Cloud]

[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by BabyGirl [/i]
[B][color=deeppink]
It may be outdated in a lot of ways [like standing up every time a woman enters or leaves the room], but random acts of kindness are always appreciated. Men often hold doors for me or let me go in front of them in line, and I don't find that to be sexist, I think they're just being nice.
[/color] [/B][/QUOTE]

[color=indigo]In less I am in a large group setting, I stand to greet a lady enters the room. Then again, I don?t think that it is a chivalrous mannerism, just an old fashioned sense of manners that my parents instilled me with. I unlock and open the passenger door for anyone that rides in my car, I remove my hat (if I am wearing one) when I am inside, I pull out chairs for women (as well as my mother, grandmothers, and aunts) at restaurants, like Tony, I?ll hold a door open for anyone, and when I sit down to eat the napkin goes straight in my lap. Again, I don?t find these acts at all chivalrous; I just find them to be appropriate and necessary manners.

Fifty or sixty years ago these things were considered chivalrous because they leant themselves to showing a woman that they were respected and appreciated. However, with the change of women?s roles in society, I think chivalry has changed with it. I think it is more chivalrous to respect a woman?s views on politics, their decision to pursue careers instead of being a ?stay at home mom? (or vice versa), and their decision on whether or not they wish to join the armed forces.
[/color]

[Solo Tremaine]

[COLOR=#503F86]It's not just chivalry- it's common courtesy. Unless they actually object to you opening the door for them I don't see why you shouldn't do it at all. Granted, if you're over the other side of the room and pretty much leap from your seat and dive in their way simply so they don't have to turn the handle that might be a bit much, but I'd never ever have thought of it as being sexist. But then, I am male.

This guy just sounds lazy to me, heh. Who is he to decide what women find sexist anyway? I know I always appreciate having doors opened for me, whoever it's done by.

Like HC, I was always brought up to be generally courteous anyway- saying 'please' and 'thank you' and making polite conversation. It's pretty much second nature to want to help people if there's any way you can. Even if it's just little things. It doesn't make them any less of a person just because you hold a door open for them to walk through. If anything, I'd have thought it'd make them seem more important, but whatever. This is political correctness gone really dumb.[/COLOR]

[DeathKnight]

[color=crimson]I cannot imagine how that could appear offensive. Most men who do that for women would probably do that for anyone- as said, it is just common politeness. Some of the ideas of chivalry might be outdated, but otherwise it seems to be quite good to do in real life.

I find myself doing some aspects of it, especially for the ladies. Some things I just find silly and skip, though.

Silly people. <_<[/color]

[krippled master]

My dad raised me to be polite, you know, "please and thank you". My mom however raised me to treat women with respect. As outdated as you may think it is, would it be outdated to say please or thank you? I think those go hand and hand. Either way, I usually hold the door for everyone, I will offer my chair to an adult or to a peer, and I will save the less respectable conversational pieces for another date. You should treat your girlfriend right. Do that stuff for her all the time because a relationship is two people in it. If you dont treat the other right and they treat you right, that isnt a fair relationship. In terms of women that Im not involved with, im going to hold the door and give up my seat all the time because its just polite.

Thats just how my mom raised me.

[Shinmaru]

With me, much like others in this thread, I do these things simply because they're common courtesy. I mean, if I'm opening a door and someone, whether they're male or female, is only a couple feet behind me, I'm not going to close the door in their face. lol

I think the worst thing that happens is when tons of people just come out of nowhere and you feel obligated to open the door...that happens to me more often than not and I'm too damn polite to just close the door and get the hell out of the way, heh.

Either way, I think it's nice that people can still behave courteously and do the little things for other people. It's a nice reminder that not all the world is shot straight to hell, anyway.

[GreenEyedDragon]

okay, for starters, i'm a really-pld fashioned type of girl*(i.e. i would never ask out a guy, that's his job), and i've come to discover that there are lots of us. Keep that in mind.

I think chivalry may be rare today, but that just makes it all the more sweeter. The only problem with it is if you're being really sweet to a girl who doesn't like you all that much. It drives them mad, because how can you not like someone who's so nice? When and if guys treat me with repsect and open doors for me, and pull out my seat, etc. i think its really sweet. I'm prone to blush or just have this massive grin on my face, because most of the time guys treat me like their little sister, so i'm another punching bag.

Plus, you should listen to yourself on topics like this, where other people are telling you different, because these types of choices influence who you are, and nobody should change you but you.

Hope i helped!

[ChibiHorsewoman]

[color=violet]I think it's sweet as well. Probably because my relationship with my husband is so strange (long distance sucks!) I like the whole idea of a guy pulling out my chair so I can sit down or holding the door open for me.
Of course, the door thing is also a bit of common curtousey which I can't spell right now.
I also have to admit that if my husband started doing some of that stuff I'd ask if he hit himself in teh head with his kevlar helmet instead of just sleeping on it like a good little soldier. But that's just me.
I just realized what I did, ya'll can close this![/color]

[size=1][color=red]I am 99% sure you meant to post this in here rather than making a new thread, so here you go heh. - Semjaza[/size][/color]

[Justin]

I generally open doors and the like for everyone, regardless of gender. Though, I sometimes do show a leaning based on age(out of respect for the elderly), that's about the extent of my bias.

I'm not too shy about conversation topics around anyone, though. I'm the same person in one place as in anywhere else. If I'll talk about something with a guy, I'll probably talk about it with a girl; unless there was some reason I thought she might not understand, or something.

I'm probably not as chivalrous as I'd like to be, or should be, but I do make some effort. I hate to break it to everyone, but I don't have the greates personality, so it's sometimes hard for me to think about things like that.

-Justin

[DeathBug]

Glad to know I'm not just an outdated loser. ^__^ (Well, not outdated, anyway).

I appreciate the feedback. Really, I didn't think there was anything wrong with being slightly more courteous to the ladies; I think a lot of people could learn to be. (One of my pet peeves is guys that are rude or inconsiderate around their girlfriends; drives me nuts...)

[eleanor]

[size=1] Chivalry cannot always be mixed with common courtesies or being nice. It has its own definition, too.

But anyways, being polite like that to ladies is never a bad thing. I don't think it's [i]sexist[/i], I think girls rather enjoy it when boys do nice things for them.[/size]

[Mitch]

[size=1] I'm a real kind, cordial, empathetical person. I've always been this way.

When I leave my classes at school, if I'm in a good mood, I say good-bye to the teacher. I especially say it if I like that teacher.

I saw you're welcome every single day at school when I punch in my number and the lady says thank you to me. When I feel I've done wrong to someone, I say sorry (as I did to Alex). When I'm in a bad mood, I usually keep quiet, and try to act as if I'm in a good mood.

My interaction with ladies at this point in time is lacking. But those that I do interact with, I am kind to. If I were to have a girlfriend, I would definitely treat her as if she were "the cat's pajamas," as the saying goes. I'd hold doors open for her. I'd be kind in what I'd say. I'd probably be the last to engage in physical contact, unless the time was right, and I could feel it.

I often hold doors open for other people. It's kind to do anything like this in general. It depends on my mood though. Lately I haven't been in such a good mood, but I stll do help other people.

My friend didn't have money today. So I bought him pizza. He was going to give me a Dr. Pepper, but I refused. I got it for free. It's what friends are for.

I just try to be kind to people, and dignified in what I do, even if I might think elsewise. I always try to put other people in front of me if I can, because I find that it makes me feel much better to help other people instead of me. At times I am selfish, but I often do what's best for others if I can.

I am kind to ladies. But it's more along the lines of if I know them more, I would be more kinder, because more opportunities would manifest themselves. That should change eventually lol. What can I say, I'm a loser. Tony is the only thing that makes it all worth it, aren't you, Peach Head?

I cease to see what's so bad about being kind. People are such jerks in society today. Stupid jerks, they should become kinder. :p[/size]

[Baron Samedi]

I was raised by my mum. Well, I still am being raised. Holding doors open for people is common courrtesy. Being.. obligated to stand for elderly, or even femals is just... something that you should do. Manners never hurt anyone. Being polite is something you just do.. a simple kindness. It isn't sexist... it is just being polite. I wouldn't allow someone to cut me in line. lol. But... other things. You just do. Especially if your mum prods you. lol. I would do it anyway, but... I don't see why it is sexist.

[Japan]

I think that it is sweet when guys open doors for me. I hate it when people shut the door right in my face. heh....Like mitch, I say please, thank you, and sorry all the time. I also say hello and good bye to my favorite teachers as well.
I open doors for anyone regardless of age and gender though. It is all common courtesy really. Treat others as you want to be treated. That's basically it.

[Guest karrari]

I think its good for boys to be polite in that manner. If your freind thinks its sexist to be extra polite to girls than you can tell your freind he's the one being a sexist. In certain cases it can seem a bit weird. Like if the girl your holding the door for has to touch you to get through, then she might think your just a perv, or if she's paranoid around boys. Otherwise, as a girl of this generation(I'm not some old fart sayin "Be nice to girls sonny.") Boys like you are in short supplie and its nice to see that there are a few left besides my freinds(male). So keep it up!!

[PiroMunkie]

[size=1]Courtesy towards women was not always a part of chivalry, you know. In fact, it was one of the last installments of the code.

"Knights," in the beginning, were barbarians. They killed, stole, maimed, and claimed whatever they liked without a second thought, or even a reason.

Though, soon enough, the Lords of the land began installing this code of chivalry, but at this time it more more military-based. The knights were still free to take women and claim them for whatever their purposes may be.

However, this became less of a problem when knights began to become more reverent. They read the Catholic Bible, attended services, and would do anything in their power to make themselves seem as holy as possible. Though, not because they really cared, but because it gave them a higher social status; people would look up to them.

It was not until later when the traveling poets and storytellers came along with their tales of valiant heroes who did have such courtesy toward women, and so knights became more sensitive. They began to read poetry, learn music, learn how to dance, and courtship. In fact, they could not even [i]touch[/i] the women they fancied because part of the code was the woman had to already be married. So the knights would worship at a distance. Send them gifts, write letters, and other such acts.


I did a report for school a while ago on the history of chivalry, so it was a nice thing to learn. I was never aware of its "darker" background. Everything I said may be a little flawed, because I do not remember exactly what I read, but it is something alng those lines. ^_^

So really, I suppose chivalry [i]could[/i] be taken offensively, depending on which phase of it is apparent.

Personally, I just do things that would fall under the traditional definition of chivalry simply out of common courtesy, as it has been said before. However, the better I know people, the more likely I am to treat them to it.[/size]

[future girl]

I hold doors open for ppl and I'm a girl. It just seems like the polite thing to do. There's this boy in school, though, who will literally sprint to get the door for me and my friends. We've asked him why he does it and he gets really embarassed so we try holding the door open for him and he told us it would be rude of him to walk through. I guess he believes the C building doors are much to heavy for us or something, but I always feel really sorry for him because of it, if anything. Either way, most guys I know will hold the door open for me. I've never felt someone was telling me I was weak because of it. It's just common courtesy.

[Kanariya]

[size=1][color=chocolate]I think holding doors for women and all is really sweet, though I think people should hold doors for other people and stuff, not caring which gender. Meaning to be curtious, that's all.
For me, I'm a girl, I really don't like boys acting all sweet towards me. I don't like to be treated much as a lady.

I'm not saying holding doors and stuff is a bad thing, just that I don't really like people doing it for me. I could care less if someone slammed the door in my face. Curse them. I really don't take it too seriously.
I wasn't raised the be a very polite person either. My mother is a good parent, just doesn't teach being polite very well. I am respectful to others, but at times I say the worst things I could say to other people.[/size][/color]

[Sweet Pie]

[color=coral]I don't think its sexist..is just very gentleman..if you ask me..BUT don't be too overacting you like...I don't what to say..[/color]

[Marron347]

I didn't vote on your poll because none of the choices was my answer.

Every time a guy opens a door for me, gives me his seat, or lets me go first just to be polite, and I know this might sound a little cruel, but I can hardly keep from laughing until they are out of hearing range; then I crack up. I think it is hillarious when people do that, probably because I doesn't happen very often around here (or maybe it's because of the obnoxious men in my family, I dunno). All I know is that when a guy does that it makes him look like fool. (No offense DeathBug.)

[DeathBug]

[color=indigo][size=1][font=century]Oh, you may laugh now; how you my laugh! But you shall feel just retribution!

Some day, your arms will be full, perhaps with books, perhaps with grocieries, perhaps with lawn gnomes; it make no difference. Suddenly, you will need to open a door! Alas, you will be unable to do so on your own. Then, and only then will I strike!

Me: "Do you need a hand?"

You: "Yeah, could you get that?"

Me: "Nope." *walks away*

BWAHHAHAHAHA!! My evil revenge is completed!!

*End Evil Revenge Mode*

Seriously, I fail to see how it makes a guy look like a fool. You don't have to apologize on my account; I feel sorry for you, that no guys you know would do stuff like that for you.[/color][/size][/font]