Guest ScirosDarkblade Posted January 12, 2004 Share Posted January 12, 2004 I am writing a paper in an Art Education class of mine, where I plan on contrasting manga with American comics, from all sorts of standpoints. Of course I will touch on artwork, writing, panel arrangement, and so forth. But the most important thing is comparing the enormous recent success of manga with the small and ever-wavering niche of American comics. I want to know why and when you started reading manga. I am also interested in what social/age group you'd place yourself, because that will add an important perspective to your response. If you have or have not read American comics, please tell me so and tell me why. If you don't like the art styles American comics tend to have, tell me. If you think the writing is too predictable then tell me. Also if you do have such opinions, please tell me what American comics you base them off of. I will read each response carefully and treat it seriously. Thanks a lot for your input! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scrmngfangrl Posted January 12, 2004 Share Posted January 12, 2004 i started freshman year, my friend lend me Dragonknights. i never really read any comics before that but i did watch spider man cartoons. i read a crossgen comic and it bugged me a lot. mostly the colouring an a few other things that i currently cant remember. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Angelus_Necare Posted January 12, 2004 Share Posted January 12, 2004 My first encounter with Manga was probably when I was thirteen years old, My first manga being Pokemon sold in four magazine-like forms. I had read American comics before (mainly Marvel), but Manga was so much different from the bulky giants compared to meek characters that had humor and seriousness within their pages. I'm an artist, so Manga was something unuiqe for me and something I could base my talent off of, Manga just stuck I suppose. I now own what seems to be a library of japanese comic books, and I wonder where I get money to put clothes on my back sometimes. All in all, Manga is definitely an art that has been offten over looked and I'm glad you're giving it the attention it deserves. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Megumi momo Posted January 12, 2004 Share Posted January 12, 2004 My first time was when Taomaru my friend from korea handed me the Korean version of Shonen Jump he read it loud to me and said "they make it in american too" the next day i saw shonen jump and bought it along with vampire princess miyu i was 10! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kei Posted January 12, 2004 Share Posted January 12, 2004 [color=darkblue]The first time I ever read a manga was back in 2000. I believe it was the 4th installment of Dragonball from Viz. I had never been a huge comic fan, just reading the occasional X-Men now and again from the library. It never really appealed to me. The main reason I probably read manga now was because I got into animé. A friend of mine told me how the animé usually has some contrasts from the original manga version, so I decided to go looking for some. Lo and behold, I found that Dragonball. Ever since then, I don't read it just to see the original story, though. I mostly read them to see the original art. I've noticed that some aspects in the character design are present when mangas are transfered to animation, and since I've been getting into art a lot recently, it's cool to see how they change. (Take a look at the Yu-Gi-Oh! manga and the animé to see what I'm talking about, lol. Jonouichi looked totally different in the beginning.)[/color] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dagger Posted January 12, 2004 Share Posted January 12, 2004 Social/age group? I'm a girl, and I'm in high school. Although I've been a fan of anime for many years, I started reading manga rather recently--just this past summer, if I recall correctly. I was never really interested in reading comic books. People tend to think of them as being rather juvenile and focused solely on superheroes, which couldn't be further from the truth, but at the time I didn't realize that. Being the fantasy and science-fiction maniac that I am, I've wanted to read Neil Gaiman's graphic novels for a [i]very[/i] long time. However, their price ended up deterring me. Since I occasionally watch anime solely for the sake of its artwork, I thought that it might be interesting to examine the stylistic differences between anime and manga. I'm now collecting several series (including Chobits, Gravitation, and Demon Diary), and own random volumes of many more (such as Vampire Princess Miyu and Revolutionary Girl Utena). [quote][b]But the most important thing is comparing the enormous recent success of manga with the small and ever-wavering niche of American comics.[/b][/quote] Manga may be growing in popularity, but it isn't exactly mainstream. Although I currently know very little when it comes to American comics, I plan to educate myself about them at some point or another. The Japanese don't have a monopoly on creativity or artistic ability. So, there's your answer. I first became interested in manga and manwha (Korean manga) because I liked the artwork. While I'm not a big fan of the muscle-bound-superhero look that's sometimes found in American comics, both manga and comic books offer a diverse array of artistic styles to choose from. ~Dagger~ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eleanor Posted January 12, 2004 Share Posted January 12, 2004 [size=1] Hm...my first manga? In sixth grade, I became unhealthily obsessed with DBZ, and I freaked when my friend bought some DBZ mangas. She went to the mall with me and took me to Waldenbooks, and I looked around. I really didn't know any other anime but DBZ back then, but I decided to get the Evangelion manga because it looked interesting and I couldn't find the DBZ ones. Needless to say, I found Evangelion to be awesome, and then continued my obsession with illegal downloading and internet scouring. Hm. Well, I've come a long way. Right now, I'm an eigth grader at 13 years old, and not a [i]complete[/i] loser. No, manga and manwha [I don't think manwha will ever really become popular in America] aren't mainstream, but the sales of manga has increased greatly and you can look around in the mall and shopping areas to see for yourself. Bookstores like Waldonbooks [is that Waldenbooks?] and Barnes and Noble have sections dedicated to mangas, and major electronics stores have huge sections of anime. Not mainstream, but closer to becoming as popular as american comics. Well, actually, I have no idea of the number of people who still regularly buy American comics. Not anybody I know, anyway. [i]The Japanese don't have a monopoly on creativity or artistic ability.[/i] I wish, lol. But really, you're right, because the only reason the awesome amateur artists out there are usually Japanese or whatever is because anime and manga are a big part in Asian culture. I will say that anime definately has much more creativity than most American comics/shows. It may just be their culture, I have no idea. [/size] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dagger Posted January 12, 2004 Share Posted January 12, 2004 [QUOTE][i]Originally posted by maladjusted [/i] [B]No, manga and manwha [I don't think manwha will ever really become popular in America][/b][/quote] Really? To be perfectly honest, I don't think that most fans realize that there's a difference between manga and manwha. After all, bookstores place them in the same section, and manwha has the added advantage of reading left-to-right (not that there's anything wrong with right-to-left >_>). Certain manwha--including King of Hell and Under the Glass Moon, as well as Demon Diary--seem to have attracted numerous fans, and their artwork is admittedly superior to that of many popular manga series (anything by Rumiko Takahashi, for example). In my local Borders, Demon Diary is displayed more prominently than Paradise Kiss or even Angelic Layer. I'd say that since a lot of people don't really care about the differences between manga and manwha (assuming that any substantial ones exist), their sales will probably continue to rise together. [quote][b]aren't mainstream, but the sales of manga has increased greatly and you can look around in the mall and shopping areas to see for yourself. Bookstores like Waldonbooks [is that Waldenbooks?] and Barnes and Noble have sections dedicated to mangas, and major electronics stores have huge sections of anime.[/B][/QUOTE] Good point. My mom recently commented on how you could never have bought manga (or manwha, for that matter ^_~) at a normal bookstore when she first immigrated to the States. I recently read a very interesting article in the Washington Post about how one of Japan's biggest exports is simply its pop culture. But.... yeah, I'll stop rambling now. ;p ~Dagger~ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wiccansamurai Posted January 12, 2004 Share Posted January 12, 2004 My first manga was Sailor Moon. I was 11, and me and my sis had always been fans of the show. So she went to the mall and bought me the manga. *starry eyes* Of course, I didn't even know there there was other manga until I was 13. That's pretty sad, since I now own 600$ worth of manga. That I've bought. Like this year. That is a lot. Actually, manga was my first real hobby, as well. Actually, I have read a bit of American comics. One or two, anyway. I've read one about Death, you know that comic that Vertigo comes out with once a year. I just usually like comics with female main characters. Hence the piles of shoujo in my room. ^_^ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SasukeUchiha Posted January 13, 2004 Share Posted January 13, 2004 [quote][i]originally posted by Dagger IX1 [/i] as well as Demon Diary--seem to have attracted numerous fans, and their artwork is admittedly superior to that of many popular manga series (anything by Rumiko Takahashi, for example).[/quote] Although I love Demon Diary with a passion, I would not call the artwork superior. The differences are very strong and I do not think that they can be compared. Manwha is also hard to tell apart from japanese manga because as you said they do not do anything to indicate that they are created in different countries. Somone who knows about manga is normally able to tell, but alot of people I think would be surprised as to how much manga is actually Manwha. As for your question, I have liked it on and off for most of my life (I am currently 18), But I really got into it my sophmore year in high school when I read the first Graphic Novel of Ranma 1/2. Now I am a Freshman in College, and my love for manga/anime is only growing. As for American art, I tend to be turned off by them because the focus is more on Big Muscular Men doing these manly things and the women with large "accesories" helping them (or vice versa) I know that is not true to all American Comic's, but the thing I most like about manga is that everyone is not perfect, and the villans are not completely villans and can be identified with, and sometimes the Manga-kun makes it so you actually pity the villan. Its examples like this that really make Manga stand out for me against American Comics. :P Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Minako Posted January 13, 2004 Share Posted January 13, 2004 I started reading Manga this school year. (PSST! I'm a girl and a sophomore in high school!) I got started on them through a friend of a friend (Now I'm friends with them both) and we were talking about animes and she lent me the first two Inuyasha mangas. She gets the Inuyasha ones every so often. I've read through 15. I've also read Wish, Gunslinger Girl, both from her, and I own Chobits 1 and Cardcaptor Sakura 1 and 2. I've read a few american comics. I don't like them. They are too...bold. They use bright colors and very accentuated lines. I just like how manga's set up and how many different genres of manga there are. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G/S/B Master Posted January 13, 2004 Share Posted January 13, 2004 I started when I was 3rd grade when they started giving them out in videos as a bonus. (I'm currently in 5th ^_^) I'm now starting to read mangas in Shonen Jump and nothing else (I can only buy them off from the book orders. I have no shops that I know so far that sells them). American Comics aren't my thing. They aren't so intresting. I always encourage my friends to read manga. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest ScirosDarkblade Posted January 13, 2004 Share Posted January 13, 2004 Thanks for your responses so far, guys. Hey, just to give you a little perspective on the whole "success of manga vs American comics," I read an article where a columnist from some comic book site said that while Jim Lee and Jeph Loeb (guys who did Batman: HUSH, which b.t.w. is drawn spectacularly (although you don't like the 'muscular men' and 'busty women' I know, but Lee's Batman is just ridiculously badass) and you can't help but appreciate the talent there, even if the style isn't your thing, but I digress) managed to bump up sales of BATMAN to 150,000 copies per monthly issue, but at the same time SHONEN JUMP (now here's where I'm confused, cause I've never seen this publication in bookstores or newsstands even, although I do know what it is...) sells 350,000 to 500,000 per month. Now that's crazy, because I know that BATMAN was #1 on the comic book charts for a long, long time, and by quite a large margin, but those charts (Wizard's, etc.) don't include manga. Yeah, so unless the columnist was talking about SHONEN JUMP selling in Japan (which honestly would make no sense for the article, cause he was talking about the manga boom in the U.S.), that's a substantial difference and bears some reflection. Anyway, thanks again for the feedback. Every response helps a lot! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest ScirosDarkblade Posted January 13, 2004 Share Posted January 13, 2004 Also it's really interesting that almost all of you who have read American comics in the past read the Marvel ones, not D.C. True, that was a long time ago, when D.C. hadn't yet really gotten on too many killer artists or anything, but so far if you ask me D.C. kicks the crap out of Marvel, and always has. Batman and Superman, since the 1990s, have been far better written titles than anything Marvel has been able to put out. And nowadays, thanks to the p.o.s. Spiderman/Hulk/Daredevil movies, all we see on bookstore shelves is Spiderman/Hulk/Daredevil comics, so I can totally see how they'll never win any manga fans over... Anyway in reality people read manga not because it's better than American comics. Really people don't choose BETWEEN the two and decide on one, obviously. But the social attitude towards one does differ from attitude towards the other, and I bring up American comics because it helps me get a better bearing on those attitudes, and maybe how they came to be so different, and why they will/will not change as time goes by. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SasukeUchiha Posted January 13, 2004 Share Posted January 13, 2004 When you talka bout social views, are you talking about social views that make American Comics less popular? Because I know more epople who like American Comics than manga, and those people in my experience tend to rip on manga alot more than most of us really care aout their preference. I can agree with you when you say some of the art in American comics is amazing, its the straight forward stories that annoy me. I like a story that has many layers with characters that have many layers to them, and If you look at most American Comics, its non existant. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest ScirosDarkblade Posted January 13, 2004 Share Posted January 13, 2004 Well both manga and American comics suffer from some improper views (comics here being "for kids" when they're in fact for older teens, manga being "for perverts" and so forth), but there aren't really any beneficial generalizations at this point toward American comics that I can think of, where as people will often say manga is more complex in general and its characters have more depth. While this is not unfounded, since if you pick a random American comic and a random manga chances are that generalization WILL hold, the reason it's not a good one is that if you look for them, you'll FIND American comics which do have complex plots and deep characters, and even some comics with "real world" problems and so forth. In other words, thematically a lot of what manga fans are looking for (except for artwork, but that's a different issue). Anyway, obviously the "social views" I'm actually talking about are a bit more complex, and have important history to them (and are shifting even as we speak). I can see how you might know more people who like American comics than people who like manga (and actually so do I, and so do a LOT of people), but those people don't seem to be buying nearly as many comics as do manga readers. If you want to know, personally I like American comics more also, but that's because I have found some really good ones. Also I'm a big Batman fan (mostly because of the cartoon), and I've been able to find a couple of good Batman comics (though most suck). But as far as "quality" goes, Alex Ross's Kingdom Come is one of the most complex, complete, and well-illustrated comics to ever come out, and if you've read it I'm sure you agree. In fact it was part of the reading material for an English course here at OSU, which amused me (though I didn't take that course). Also I mostly buy comics for the artwork (and many manga fans, although attracted to the artwork, care just as much about the writing), since if I want a good story I'll read an actual book. That's why the one manga I truly am a fan of is Oh My Goddess! The line art there is impressive, to say the least. Anyway keep writing, people! This is all good stuff and I want to hear more! :-D. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest ScirosDarkblade Posted January 15, 2004 Share Posted January 15, 2004 ...I'm gonna need more replies than this... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SasukeUchiha Posted January 15, 2004 Share Posted January 15, 2004 So if you wnat a good story you will buy a book??!!.. What is hte point of reading American or Japanese comic's then? Just for the art alone? That is a waste of money.... Some American Comics can be interesting, I read 2 American Comics, Uncanny X-Men and Lady Death. They actually do have good stories even though it they are pretty straight forward. I think it is the size of our comics that make the story seem so straightforward. If you look at the size of a manga and the size of an American Comic book, the page number is drastically different. The one point I will say American Comics have, is the coloring. Manga's are normally not colored. But, you also have to take into consideration the fact that Manga looks GOOD in black and white, but would some of the comic book art we see stand up to that if it was not colored? I highly doubt it. (If no one else jumps into this conversation and you would like to carry it on, we will switch to PM's) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest ScirosDarkblade Posted January 15, 2004 Share Posted January 15, 2004 Hah. Well getting comics for the artwork certainly isn't a waste of money. I don't feel like I've wasted my money, at least. And a few have decent stories, I'm not saying that none do. But really compared to ACTUALLY GOOD writing, no comics stand up. And page number-wise... there's plenty of long American comics out there. They're not 20 volumes, but many are 3 or more, and that's plenty to tell a very complete story with all the elements you'll ever need. As far as the black-and-white goes, of course comics that are meant to be colored would look incomplete if done in black and white. But that's not how black-and-white comics are done, is it? It's not like American artists are idiots. Black and white comics require a different approach from the start, because color can no longer be used to create focal points or lead the viewer's eyes. But you probably know that, and just brought up the b/w thing without thinking. ...And then there are the American PAINTED comics, like Alex Ross's and Christopher Moeller's and so forth. But really this is not what this forum is about. I hate having to defend American comics. I shouldn't have to. I wanted to know WHY and WHEN people started to read manga, that's all. This is for a paper for an Art Education class. Of course I want to hear any feelings people have toward any comics, and I suppose it helps explain why people like manga, but nobody really "got into" manga by holding up Scion and Excel Saga at the same time and going "hmmm Excel Saga has better artwork and a better story I will now buy manga and forsake American comics." People don't get one instead of the other. The American comic audience and manga's don't really conflict so much. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikkaddo Posted February 19, 2004 Share Posted February 19, 2004 [COLOR=DarkRed]My first (and favorate) manga is Priest, and yes I know I put "is" thats because I still read it, and have a number of them, up to 9 minus 7 since I read it in the store and have been broke lately . . . (damn gas prices) anyway, thats my fave and first, and the when? . . . last year around this time Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Epitome Posted February 19, 2004 Share Posted February 19, 2004 [size=1]I started reading manga about the same time I became an anime fan, so about the year 2000-2001 and I did read it because (1) I love anime and (2) I love reading. So basically put 1 and 2 together and you get manga. But I also started reading manga because after they started re-running all my favorite animes on CN, I got really bored of it and started reading manga a lot more. So, thats basically my story for reading manga.[/size] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
duorocks17 Posted February 19, 2004 Share Posted February 19, 2004 [FONT=Century Gothic][COLOR=Blue]I have been an anime fan for years, but I have only just recently started to read magna. What made me start reading it? Sometimes i ask myself the same question. I remember one time, me and a friend of mine who are also into anime, stopped by this store that was going out of business. We look in, and there in the front of the store are these manga books. We walk over to them, and I picked one up called "Planet Ladder". The are on the front was beutiful, so i turned it over to read the discription of the plot. I looked at it, and it rememinded me of a story i am writing. So, i figured, the thing is only $3.50, i think i can spend that much on a book, and it might help me with my writing. Let's just say I have been reading magna ever since. :) My friend on the other hand, she picked out a particular series, i can't quite remember the name, but she didn't like it that much, but still reads magna, when I give her something I have finished reading. If you need to know our genders and such, we are both females, and both seniors in high school. [/FONT][/COLOR] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sere Tuscumbia Posted February 19, 2004 Share Posted February 19, 2004 [left][font=Times New Roman]When I first got ahold of a manga? (actually, it was a manwha, but I just refer to it all as manga) Actually, I don't really know. Young, though. My first manga was the third volume of Sailor Moon. I'm not really sure why I bought it, or where I bought it, but I do know collecting the whole series became my [i]obsession[/i]. Any bookstore I went to, I searched for the Sailor Moon books that I didn't have. Heck, I didn't even care if I didn't buy them in order! But I've got them all now (all 18!) and my poor 3rd book has been read so many times that all the pages have broken away from the spine. ^^;;[/font][/left] [left][font=Times New Roman]I guess what really drives me in my gigantic quest for manga is the art. A lot of the times, I buy books because they're pretty. I read a lot of web-mangas because they're pretty. I'm a pretty-oriented kind of person, I guess. ^^;;[/font][/left] [left][font=Times New Roman]But right now, I'm trying to buy less manga, because I've got so many series that I've started to buy, but I've never finished buying all of them. So I'm going to refrain from buying any more new mangas (unless something from Natsumi Ando pops up, and then it's bought automatically) until I finish collecting all of my other series. Heck, I live within walking distance of one of the most extensive manga collection stores I've ever seen, so I don't really have to worry about a new manga I'm planning on buying disappearing before I get to buy it any time soon.[/font][/left] [left][font=Times New Roman]Haha, I guess all-in-all, I like manga because it's so unique. And it's also easier to relate to. I mean, normal people (mainly teenagers) thrust into abnormal situations, and they have to figure out how to deal. They're a whole lot human than some alien that wears spandex, and can make people not recognise him by putting on some freaking glasses. (although Sailor Moon comes pretty darn close. O_o;;)[/font][/left] [left][font=Times New Roman]--Sere[/font][/left] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest ScirosDarkblade Posted February 20, 2004 Share Posted February 20, 2004 [QUOTE=Sere Tuscumbia][left][font=Times New Roman]Haha, I guess all-in-all, I like manga because it's so unique. And it's also easier to relate to. I mean, normal people (mainly teenagers) thrust into abnormal situations, and they have to figure out how to deal. They're a whole lot human than some alien that wears spandex, and can make people not recognise him by putting on some freaking glasses. (although Sailor Moon comes pretty darn close. O_o;;)[/font][/left] [/QUOTE] Yeah, definitely it's easier to find "normal people" stories in manga than in DC and Marvel. Although I find it interesting that much of the popular manga and anime has superhumans as lead characters. Really what sets lead characters in "superhero" comics apart from anime/manga's protagonists is that the former are purely GOOD fighting their EVIL opponents, whereas the latter often have something of a gray area (but usually not in their convictions, and that might be the most important thing about a character). But saying Superman isn't "human," well that means you probably don't know Superman very well as a character, as he's more "human" than a lot of normal humans. Superman comics aren't bad because of the character; they suck because of the poor writers. The character is above the writers, in a sense. Some ideal form of him exists regardless of how much the next issue of "Action Comics" will suck (and it will almost always suck). The glasses thing is funny and honestly I think it's been conceded that even Perry White really knows who Superman is, he's just too good a guy to make it known. With Superman the thing is there's not really a question of him having a secret identity. People assume he's Superman 24/7. Unlike Batman, who many know is a real human and obviously has a "secret identity." Anyway I think it would really interesting to write a paper detailing the parallels between characters like Vash the Stampede and Supes or something. They're really similar in many ways, most importantly in their convictions. As far as manga being "pretty," well that is what confuses me the most. It's true, a lot of people like manga because they like the artwork (and honestly that is the most legit reason because you can always find a better story with better characters in an actual novel, if you're willing to look). But it's, well, pretty much a fact that American comics are, on average, technically superior in artwork to manga. Many people are turned off by the skin-tight costumes of many superheroes (or so they claim) or the "messy" colors (which is really confusing because the messiest colors are in Sandman, which is one of the most popular American comics among manga readers), but that's not to say that there aren't American comics that have both the kind of story manga readers like and far better artwork. Anyway I'm not saying some manga isn't pretty, because certainly there is some. And of course there is some really poorly drawn artwork in American comics. The thing is, so many comics here are overlooked although they would give manga readers what they want (or claim they want; very few actually say they like it because it's popular and because it's Japanese, which is part of the subconscious appeal). But mostly that is because these American comics are crammed in between total crap like "Daredevil" and "Hulk" and "Matrix Comics". It IS hard to find good stuff these days, and I haven't bought an American comic "for the story" in over 5 years if you don't count the recent "Bruce Wayne: Murderer/Fugitive" TPBs. I get them for the artwork. I also get manga for the artwork. I guess my views are not like many people's because I DO get comics/manga almost strictly for the artwork. Of course I read them, and I get into the story and such, but I will never buy a comic which has great story and poor art. It costs twice as much as buying a good novel. And I haven't even read the Harry Potters yet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luminaire Posted February 22, 2004 Share Posted February 22, 2004 [color=crimson]The very first manga I ever got was Ragnarok. That was...last year, or the year before. I don't remember. O_o My sis had some of the Sailor mangas before that, but I barely read them. I was just browsing the bookstore and a book with green binding and jagged letters caught my eye. Turned out I was in the Graphic Novels section. I picked it off the shelf and read the back. I read the first ten pages and then decided to buy it. And then I explored the rest of the section and found other great mangas. I guess I became interested in manga because it was like anime, but more accessible. u_u The obsession idea seems to rule out. ~Lumi ^_^[/color] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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