Anime complicated

[Guest Vengenceuk]

ok here's the thing i was wondering why most anime's are complicated sure it adds to the plot it could even get you thinking but if your like me they just confuse you and anoy you until you you have watched them 50 times and start then to get the jist of what the movie is about anyone else agree

[Hittokiri Zero]

To be honest i've never had that problem most people who complain about this are usually younger viewers =|. There are some animes such as Lain and Boogiepop Phantom that can seriousley screw with your head, even Akira would fall into that category at times but for the most part i've always found the majority of anime easy to follow =O...

[Dagger]

Funny you should mention this, Vengenceuk--I'm actually the exact opposite. I agree with Hittokiri; most series are pretty straightforward, and an anime's popularity is often inversely proportional to the complexity of its plot. Just look at Inuyasha and Dragonball Z: those shows certainly won't strain your gray matter, but they're well-known nonetheless.

I don't watch certain shows simply for the sake of making myself think. All the same, it's my belief that slowly putting together the pieces of a carefully planned storyline is one of life's great pleasures, whether you're watching a series or reading a novel. Boogiepop Phantom is among my favorite anime, and The Big O's twisted ending nearly made me weep with joy. So perhaps my tastes are a little unusual. ^_^;

~Dagger~

[eleanor]

[size=1] Some animes can be very confusing, but it's one thing that sets anime apart from other types of cartoons. Some of the plots seen in anime are very deep and intellectual, and not the usual simple one that make all ends meet. But just because a plot is confusing doesn't mean that it's good.

Sometimes if it's [i]that[/i] confusing, you should rewatch and reflect on what you just saw. I never really do that [I would hate doing that, really. :p], but I guess it helps some people.[/size]

[Fyxe]

[size=1][color=darkblue]Hmm, well normally I have no trouble at all following a story line. I havn't really watched many confusing animes, exept for FLCL. I think that stumped just about everyone. I have to agree that most of them are pretty straightforward, out of what I've seen anyway. The only times I have ever really gotten confused is when I havn't seen the show forever and you watch the, what, 20th or so episode later. Then you have no idea what's going on. Otherwise, I'm okay.
So I can normally always follow an anime pretty easily, but that's just me. *shrugs*[/color][/size]

[ElrickOtaku]

Anime series vary in complexity depeding on the demographics of whom they are aimed at. So for younger fans who dislike complexity, there are always series like Dragonball Z or Pokemon, etc.

For fans who like an added layer of complexity there are series like Martian Successor Nadesico and Gundam Wing, etc.

It is only when moving into the heavier anime like Neon Genesis Evangelion (the later episodes mainly), Gasaraki and others that the complication begins to be a problem for general fans.

Basically, just search around as anime as a whole entity is not complicated, its just that SOME series are more complicated than others.

[SasukeUchiha]

The only anime that I can think of that was confusing is FLCL. It kind of makes sense, but I think it is made to make you think and wonder. Sometimes it can be hard to catch on to certain interweaving plots, but if you pay close enough attention, you should not get confused.

[Semjaza]

I'm not really fond of the idea that [i]only[/i] anime can have complex plots in the animation world. There are so many anime that don't even require a single brain cell, same with animation here. There are some anime that are very intellectual, same with animation here.

I don't really know how this conclusion was reached, but it's definitely not always true. I would say that more anime has complexities to it simply because animation is something that is not looked upon as stuff for children in Japan... but there are [i]many[/i] exceptions to the typical, goofy Western cartoon stereotype. Same with comics and manga -- not all comics are about some invulernable superhero. OF course, you'll never know this if you don't bother to look. If someone has already made up their mind on the subject, however, I doubt anyone is going to change it.

[Heaven's Cloud]

[color=indigo]To be honest, I have never seen an anime that has more substance than Disney?s Snow White. Now before people get there panties in a bunch, I am not saying that there isn?t complicated anime out there, I just wanted to compound on what Semjaza Azazel stated.

Grave of Fireflies has some beautiful imagery, a few metaphorical references and a moving story line. Series like Boogie Pop Phantom and .hack seem complicated, but only in the sense that it is hard to understand the pieces without the whole. And Chobits is a fairly good allegory that references a higher power, the human condition, and love.

But none of these touch Snow White (as well as a host of other early Disney movies) in depth, development, and deliberate metaphorical references. You don?t have to look hard at Snow White eating a poisoned apple to make an instant connection to Eve eating an apple. She ate the apple and fell into a deep sleep, another purposeful reference to man before the biblical second coming of Jesus. However, before heathen (and I point out that by heathen I mean polytheistic not pagan) could crush her, Snow White?s Prince Charming rescued her. Prince Charming is a blatant reference to both God and Jesus, he was a kind gentle man to Snow White before she fell from grace and he was her salvation afterwards. The heathen ideology is represented by the Evil Queen, who was once the most beautiful woman in the land. If you look at the Queen?s transformation she parallels the last stance of heathen ideology, turning into what she detests just to remain in power.

And it goes deeper than that, actually most Disney movies are deeper than that purposefully. But the beauty of Disney is that you don?t have to get the symbolism and the allegories to enjoy the movie. Anyway if this interested anyone in any fashion there are tons of sites on the net, including some that have discussions with historians that talked to Walt Disney about his earlier movies?[/color]

[Rockstar Haruko]

I think its cool when the anime has you confused and thinking. It just makes me more curious about it. FLCL was so confusing that when it was going off, I was just staring at the screen. I like anime that shows one thing and then skips to a part totally out of the subject. I like to piece together everything.

[eleanor]

[size=1] I don't know about Disney or anything, but I'm not saying anime is the only animation medium that can be complicated. In terms of plot and story development, more animes has more complex elements that most Disney movies and cartoons. Symbolism and metaphors might be found every minute in Disney movies, but their plots are simple enough. And you have to add that almost every Disney movie is based off of a story already written down or passed down by word of mouth. Disney does not simply make this stuff up, people did that a long time ago. Case in point, Snow White vs. Evangelion. Snow White was a tale, an old one, that Walt Disney decided to make a movie out of. Hideaki Anno dug up all that stuff from religious documents and decided to jumble it all into an anime series.

Think of all the mainstream American cartoons, versus anime like Boogiepop Phantom, Evangelion, .hack//SIGN, etc. that were popular in Japan. Come on, Simpsons VS. BP. Which one has a more complex PLOT?

Yes, most animes are bunch of fanservice stupid things like...hamsters rescuing the day or whatever. Yet the few anime that actually have more interesting plots are definately above most other cartoons. And this is excluding pictures and comics, since I have no interest in American comics whatsoever and wouldn't know what I was talking about at all. I don't know, this argument can be a load of crap for what I know.

And then there's my anti-argument, since out of millions of anime titles, only about 30 are actually good. And we all know a good book beats everything mentioned here. :p[/size]

[Heaven's Cloud]

[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by maladjusted [/i]
[B][size=1] I don't know about Disney or anything, but I'm not saying anime is the only animation medium that can be complicated. In terms of plot and story development, more animes has more complex elements that most Disney movies and cartoons. [/size] [/B][/QUOTE]

[color=indigo]I have never seen a well made anime movie that is more complex than Snow White that is enjoyable. The greatest anime movies have fairly straightforward plots. Akira, Knockin? on Heaven?s Door, Vampire Hunter D, Ninja Scroll, and Spirited Away, are all very easy to follow; none have a more or less complex plot than Snow White. [/color]

[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by maladjusted [/i]
[B][size=1] Symbolism and metaphors might be found every minute in Disney movies, but their plots are simple enough. And you have to add that almost every Disney movie is based off of a story already written down or passed down by word of mouth. Disney does not simply make this stuff up, people did that a long time ago. Case in point, Snow White vs. Evangelion. Snow White was a tale, an old one, that Walt Disney decided to make a movie out of. Hideaki Anno dug up all that stuff from religious documents and decided to jumble it all into an anime series. [/size] [/B][/QUOTE]

[color=indigo]Snow White is a two hour movie, it is pointless to compare plot twists of a two hour movie to a twenty-six episode series, and the End of Evangelion movie is pretty straight forward as well. No offense, Hiddeaki Anno?s religious references are quite obvious and you could parallel the tale with the old Greek Titan myth, the Tale of the Armored Guardian, and several others?Anno just incorporated Biblical concepts to those stories. I am not saying that Evangelion wasn?t a fabulous show, it was. I am just stating that Anno revitalized an old tale(s) and added a new twist just like Disney did (for example, in the original Grimm?s tale, Snow White didn?t fall victim to a poisoned apple, but to a tightly laced bodice). [/color]

[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by maladjusted [/i]
[B][size=1]Think of all the mainstream American cartoons, versus anime like Boogiepop Phantom, Evangelion, .hack//SIGN, etc. that were popular in Japan. Come on, Simpsons VS. BP. Which one has a more complex PLOT? [/size] [/B][/QUOTE]

[color=indigo]To be honest, I think the Simpson?s is a much more intelligent show. You have to be a lot smarter and well read to get some of the references that the Simpsons incorporates than you do to understand Boogie Pop Phantom. Does Boogie Pop Phantom have a more complex plot? Needlessly complex, yes. Again, you are comparing a show that depends on the viewer watching every episode to grasp the plot to a show that runs stand alone episodes. [/color]

[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by maladjusted [/i]
[B][size=1]Yes, most animes are bunch of fanservice stupid things like...hamsters rescuing the day or whatever. Yet the few anime that actually have more interesting plots are definately above most other cartoons. [/size] [/B][/QUOTE]

[color=indigo]I agree with you there, then again most of the anime that you seem to find complex and well written are marketed towards people in their late teens and older while most American cartoons are marketed to young children. (In all due respect, if you are going to argue that anime is more complex and adult than American cartoons please remember that ?anime? is both singular and plural, there is never an ?s? :)) [/color]

[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by maladjusted [/i]
[B][size=1]And then there's my anti-argument, since out of millions of anime titles, only about 30 are actually good. And we all know a good book beats everything mentioned here. :p[/size] [/B][/QUOTE]

[color=indigo]Yes, a good book is much better than any television show. But that statement contradicts your post somewhat considering that the most renowned literature is beautifully simple and straightforward at a glance yet contain boldly complex undertones when you read between the lines.[/color]

[Dagger]

[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by Heaven's Cloud [/i]
[B]I am just stating that Anno revitalized an old tale(s) and added a new twist just like Disney did (for example, in the original Grimm?s tale, Snow White didn?t fall victim to a poisoned apple, but to a tightly laced bodice).[/b][/quote]

Actually, I was under the impression that she fell victim first to a tightly laced bodice, next to a poisoned comb, and finally to the notorious poisoned apple. Although Walt Disney was indeed a veritable genius, he didn't come up with the concept of the apple on his own; it was already present in Grimm's version of the Snow White story.

Since I'm a big fairy tale fan, I felt as though I ought to mention that.

~Dagger~

[Heaven's Cloud]

[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by Dagger IX1 [/i]
[B]Actually, I was under the impression that she fell victim first to a tightly laced bodice, next to a poisoned comb, and finally to the notorious poisoned apple. Although Walt Disney was indeed a veritable genius, he didn't come up with the concept of the apple on his own; it was already present in Grimm's version of the Snow White story.

Since I'm a big fairy tale fan, I felt as though I ought to mention that.

~Dagger~ [/B][/QUOTE]

[color=indigo]Ahhh, yes. I was a little misleading, but it was on purpose I assure you :). In the original Grimm's tale the Huntsman/Prince saved Snow White from the bodice, comb, and apple (which she choked on until it became dislodged when a servant stumbled carrying the glass coffin). In other versions Snow White was poisoned by a rose and a doll. Disney could have used any of these themes but he chose the apple...why? Why did he want Cinderella to have glass slippers instead of the original gold ones? Many aspects of Disney's movies were modified for specific reasons...

Oh well...I had no intention of writing nearly this much on the subject, I just have gotten sick of people stating how much more accomplished, elaborate, and complex anime is than western cartoons...it is not.[/color]

[Bio]

[size=1]Complications in any media make a story interesting, unless you can't comprehend them. If so, don't complain, watch something different.

If you want to watch an incredibly simple, mindless television show, then turn on PBS and watch Sesame Street. Its simplicity will have you drooling and singing the alphabet within minutes.
[/size]

[eleanor]

[i]Yes, a good book is much better than any television show. But that statement contradicts your post somewhat considering that the most renowned literature is beautifully simple and straightforward at a glance yet contain boldly complex undertones when you read between the lines.[/i]

Now, I don't think things have to be complicated to be good. I won't try to explain anything, it was really just a side comment.

I'm not going to say I know the inner workings of Walt Disney's mind, but I doubt he was trying to make all of those references. He changed things to suit the movie that was for kids. Would a tightly-laced bodice appeal to kids and their mothers? Ok, an apple doesn't really do much, but it's better than a bodice when it comes to kids' movies.

And I do now know why so many people are thinking I'm saying anime is so much better than American cartoons. I'm [i]not[/i]. I'm just saying that anime has more of a history of being more complicated intentionally than American cartoons. If I can't rely on Evangelion since Hideaki based it off this Greek myth, I will say that more anime have more complicated plots that have been researched and created by minds today rather than most American cartoons. I don't know much about Disney, but I really don't think Walt Disney cared about the connections; he was just trying to make good movies. What about Looney Toons and old Saturday morning cartoons? Some people will think anime is 10,000 times better than American cartoons, and in terms of plot, it can be. It's just that bit of anime and that bit of Western animation that can really battle it out. Will people recognize Evangelion and say it's confusing? Yes. Will people recognize Snow White to full of metaphors and symbolism. A few. Unlike anime, Western cartoons do not purposefully show plot complications and hidden meaning like anime. Anime just decides to blast it all at you, while other will just keep it hidden. Do I still think anime like Evangelion and BP was developed in a more purposely intellectual and is still more complicated in terms of plot? Yes. Western cartoons can be really stupid, and so can Asian cartoons. Western cartoons can be filled with symbolism and other things, and so can anime. I just think anime actually shows it, or at least tries to. But I have my very good favorites that are Western cartoons, too.

I'm not going to write anymore after this. Anime was adapted from Western cartoons, they developed the art style further in their own ways [ex: expression, huge eyes, whatever.] and took a more risque turn. It can be complicated, and I think it's more straightfoward than Western cartoons, but sure, I believe that Western cartoons can be just as complicated.[/size]

[OtakuSennen]

[color=midnightblue]Many people find me to be highly intellectual, and I agree on some levels- I refuse to watch any reality show other than The Apprentice, and I prefer VH1 over MTV (Yeah, really mature of me, huh?). I haven't found an anime yet that really gave me a headache.

[/egotystical rant] :p

Evangelion was a very thought-provoking anime, I must admit, and its depth really provoked me into thinking a lot more about a series, and looking past the action-oriented surface material. I actually spent more time reading sites explaining Judeo-Christianity and Evangelion religious references in general than actually watching the 26-episode series. I really learned a lot from this series, just because I took the time to evaluate the depth.

FLCL wasn't as philosophical or religiously based as Evangelion, but it also made me think. There were a lot of scenes that were not in order, it seemed, and I had to watch the series several times over to fully understand what was happening. I spent maybe twenty hours trying to figure out the first volume of manga alone. The confusion was the essence of this series. Its complication was its strong point.

.hack//SIGN was the first mystery anime I ever saw. Heck, it was the first (if not only) 26-episode series I ever saw that wasn't butchered after editing. From the very first episode I was enthralled-- The original setup and dialogue-oriented script drew me in, and I was blown away by the end. It was a series not based entirely on fights and yelling. It had deep thoughts, metaphors, analogies.. It's a very complicated series.

Do I think complication is bad in an anime title? For people like myself, no. I enjoy a deep series with complex character relations and philosophy. Other people may disagree. They can go watch something a little more shallow, and I haven't a problem with that. That is the beauty of anime- There's something for everyone.[/color]