To vote or not to vote?

[lea]

[COLOR=blue]As most of you know, in the US, people vote to decide who is the next president. If you're able to vote, and none of the candidates match your exact views, do you think you should just vote for the person that seems to agree with some of what you believe? Or do you think you shouldn't vote at all?

I mean, voting for the sake of voting seems kinda....stupid.
[/COLOR] :therock:

[krippled master]

I hate politics. My father is a huge republican and so is the rest of his family. When i turned 18 he was all over me to go register to vote. I didnt think it was fair for me to just vote the way my father voted. I want to vote for who I thought was best suited, since I hate politics, I rarely watch any debates or any speeches or what have you. So, I dont see it fair for me to vote.

[Ani_Freak]

[color=darkblue]I guess that people should vote if they see a candidate that fits their expectations on what a good candidate should be or do. It's more of a personal thing for me. Voting for the sake of voting is like not voting at all. You are not getting what you'd like. After all, voting is a right, not an obligation.[/color]

[Heaven's Cloud]

[color=indigo]I have always had mixed feelings about whether or not people should be as concerned about voting as the media seems to emphasize.

I can find several reasons for not voting. First, if you view the Electoral College logically it is easy to see how it can invalidate a single vote. Even though ninety-nine times out of one hundred the popular candidate in a state wins the Electoral College, there is always that one percent of fallibility. Second, what if the candidate you vote into office does exactly what he or she plans to, yet is a horrible president? Since you voted for him/her are you not partially responsible? The inverse is what if the candidate you voted for lost, and the candidate that won is a horrible president? Aren?t you somewhat responsible because you weren?t able to convince enough other people that the candidate you desired to win should be president?

The main problem with those reasons is that they can easily be countered with logic. If you don?t vote you obviously don?t care enough about our country to involve yourself in one of the most important functions of our government. I guess my best advice is, at least become familiar enough with the candidates to decide which one closely mimics your political ideology, or at least the one that disgusts you the least. Then on election day, cast your vote and hope that whoever wins advances the general well being of the country more than they set it back.

For example, I think good ole? GW Bush does a pretty decent job as president of the United States, however, I am not about to write off any of the democratic candidates. As the primaries continue the American public will slowly understand exactly what the candidates stand for as well as grasp what GW Bush plans to achieve if he is elected for another term. Remember to catch the State of the Union Address tonight![/color]

[Luminaire]

[color=crimson]In all actuality, don't our votes not count? >thinks of lesson from history in 7th grade< As far as the government voting process goes, they already know who will be president before the voting even starts. There's this group of people, can't remember the name, who choose who is best. Does anyone else find it suspicious that Gore would have won if Florida hadn't had its little mishap? If Gore had won Florida, he would have won. It seemed strange to me.

Personally, if I even register to vote at 18, I would vote for the one who would do more good things for the country. Or, the one who matches most of my ideals. It really depends on who you are. (sounded so cheesy)

~Lumi ^_^[/color]

[Megumi momo]

[COLOR=crimson]I don't believe in voting. Call me weird but the thing is America sits around and blabs about freedom and all this other stuff about how we are not a hiarchy but in reality we are the king who proves hiarchy has it's usuage. If somone is not what you want ruling you country and the rest aint fit to do it then why in the hell would you waste your time on someone else who is not qualified to do the job. Personally I do not vote but I give bush a little respect he has the country in mind not his check.[/COLOR]

[Heaven's Cloud]

[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by Luminaire [/i]
[B][color=crimson]In all actuality, don't our votes not count? >thinks of lesson from history in 7th grade< As far as the government voting process goes, they already know who will be president before the voting even starts. There's this group of people, can't remember the name, who choose who is best. Does anyone else find it suspicious that Gore would have won if Florida hadn't had its little mishap? If Gore had won Florida, he would have won. It seemed strange to me.

~Lumi ^_^[/color] [/B][/QUOTE]

[color=indigo]You are partially right and mostly wrong. The Electoral College is broken down into pieces within each state. Each piece or district comprises their base votes from the popular vote. This can be a problem however, because some districts have a larger population than others yet all receive an equal vote. While Gore won the total popular vote in Florida, Bush won the popular vote in more Electoral districts.

Click on this link, read, become informed. After all the government will play a significant role in the rest of your life.[/color]

[url] [url]http://www.fec.gov/pages/ecworks.htm[/url][/url]

[Drix D'Zanth]

[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by Megumi momo [/i]
[B][COLOR=crimson]Call me weird but the thing is America sits around and blabs about freedom and all this other stuff about how we are not a hiarchy but in reality we are the king who proves hiarchy has it's usuage. [/COLOR] [/B][/QUOTE]

Firstly, while your quantity is fine, please increase your quality of grammar and spelling.

Secondly, I don't really think you know what you are talking about, or you worded it incorrectly. A "hierarchy" is in every single government known to man, whether by king or people. It?s impossible for a country to exist without some form of government or authority. So in effect you are claiming to be anarchist. However your phrase, ?but in reality we are the king who proves hiarchy has it's usuage.? Indicates you think we are a Monarchy ( I think that?s what you were trying to illustrate). We are a republic, or representative Democracy. Our hierarchy isn?t static or untouchable. We are the boss of the president, he just does the work that would probably occupy most of our days.

I think it is essential to vote, personally. I can?t say any president or candidate has ever fully lined up with my ideas of what would be the perfect candidate. Of course you shouldn?t be forced to vote. But, voting is one of the most important responsibilities as a citizen, we have the ability to CHANGE our country to what we feel is best. Finally something run by the masses. Now, as for popular vote.. I can understand the misconception. I agree with our system of electoral colleges. It basically works almost like an affirmative action for less populated areas of the country. Without our Electoral College system, candidates would ONLY need to campaign and appeal to the needs of urban areas, because of the huge metropolis. I don?t live by a huge city, and by using the popular vote, I would miss out on certain amounts of support or attention that I feel I deserve as any other citizen does.

I vote to whatever interests serve myself and my loved ones best. I also vote on who I believe will serve the country the best and it?s various issues. While I may not be 100% ever, I still believe it?s necessary.

[krippled master]

I hear that Drix, Electorial College ROCKS! Seriously though, I think the main problem with America is that we are lazy and complain a lot. We have the people complaining that not enough money is going to health care while others are worried about drugs and another group complaining that the economy is in a recession. They see it fit to put all the blame on the presidential position saying, "He is an idiot" or "He should have never been president". Thats your opinion, great, but lets see you be president. I figure if we put all the time we use to complain about every little thing or every bad thing a president or the goverment as a whole does towards changing the way we live or fixing what you dont like.

It is hard to change things, so wouldnt it be hard for the president as well? Instead of insulting the government every time you dont like something they do, why not try and change it? We dont do it because we are lazy and like to complain. I might not have made any sense here, I was kind of ranting, but let me end with this:

Megumi said we blab about freedom, this is true. Except, we more or less complain about what is happening in the government or what the laws are or whatever. Yet, you tell one of those people how they thing they can fix it, and a majority have no idea. They spend so much time complaining about the little things, they dont see that the being president is hard work. Still, no president will ever satisfy every need, therefore no candadate will ever get 100% of the votes.

I know I got off topic and probably made zero sense, but I said what I wanted to say(somewhat).

[Charles]

Everyone who is able to should vote. If it's not an immediate priority, it should be later. Failure to accept that responsibility is a slap in the face to those who sacrificed their lives to secure that right.

If you look at who votes, it's probably about thirty percent of the eligible population. And, that piece of the pie is likely occupied by wealthy individuals who are wealthy because they know how the system works. They vote so that they can preserve it.

If a different demographic doesn't vote, then of course there's little hope to change anything and what you have left certainly isn't a democracy...

[Guest cloricus]

You really should vote... Though if you can't figure out who to vote for just do what [url=http://www.commondreams.org/news2000/0426-09.htm]Michael[/url] [url=http://abcnews.go.com/sections/politics/DailyNews/ELECTION_moore_chat.html]Moore[/url] [url=http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2003/07/17/60minutes/main563744.shtml]did[/url].

[James]

[color=#707875]I agree 100% with Charles on this issue.

For me, I can never understand it when someone says "I don't believe in voting". How can you not believe in it?

If you cherish your freedom and your democracy...don't you see it as your duty to vote? I've never understood how only 20% or 30% of people in a state could vote and the rest don't.

In Australia, voting is compulsory. Obviously, you can go in there and do a "donkey vote", where you simply check the boxes in order. But by the same token, you are being encouraged to think about the issues and to consider what each party is offering.

I would never pass up the chance to vote, were it optional. I think that to some degree, you get the Government that you deserve -- if you're unhappy with your Government...then you should go out there and vote to replace it.[/color]

[DeathBug]

[color=indigo][size=1][font=century]Go ask Al Gore if every vote counts.

Not only should you vote, but, at the age most of us are at, it is imperative that you vote.

Young voters are the most politically unreliable voting block in history, and therefore have no politicians supporting our interests. Congess panders to the elderly because they are the most reliable voting block, in terms of whether or not they will vote.

It's important because several programs that aid the elderly are very, very expensive, and we're going to be left with the bill. I'm not saying that we do'nt need to support some of those programs, but we should have a say in the guys who basically have the ability to morgatge our furture.[/color][/size][/font]

[Guest cloricus]

[quote]Go ask Al Gore if every vote counts.[/quote]Go ask the recounters if they can count. :) [strike]joke[/strike]

[Soliel]

[COLOR=GREEN] I agree. You should definatly vote. Even if you don't agree 100% with any of the canidates you should still voice your opinion. If you don't, nothing will ever change in this messed up country.[/COLOR]

[Boba Fett]

[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by lea2385 [/i]
[B][COLOR=blue]As most of you know, in the US, people vote to decide who is the next president. If you're able to vote, and none of the candidates match your exact views, do you think you should just vote for the person that seems to agree with some of what you believe? Or do you think you shouldn't vote at all?

I mean, voting for the sake of voting seems kinda....stupid.
[/COLOR] :therock: [/B][/QUOTE]

[color=green]Nobody goes and votes for the sake of voting. Most times that I?ve gone to polling places, to do my part, there have been long lines. Who?d go wait in line for the better part of a half hour just to vote for the heck of it? Is punching the card really that much fun? Doesn?t seem logical to me. I suppose there must be some people who do, but I?d bet they?re an inconsequential minority.[/color]

[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by krippled master [/i]
[B]I hate politics. My father is a huge republican and so is the rest of his family. When i turned 18 he was all over me to go register to vote. I didnt think it was fair for me to just vote the way my father voted. I want to vote for who I thought was best suited, since I hate politics, I rarely watch any debates or any speeches or what have you. So, I dont see it fair for me to vote. [/B][/QUOTE]

[color=green]How is that fact that your father a ?huge republican? relevant? Also, what?s wrong with a father encouraging his son to take an active part in choosing the leaders of his country? Your father also can?t control the way you vote; you?re the only one in that voting booth. It?s completely private, letting you express your opinions without fear.

Also, if you don?t know much about politics, you shouldn?t vote. You?re making a guess, a guess that could have dire consequences. You?re within your rights to vote as you see fit, but don?t you think you should educate yourself a little before you help choose the person who will become the most powerful man in the world for the next four years?
[/color]

[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by Ani_Freak [/i]
[B][color=darkblue]I guess that people should vote if they see a candidate that fits their expectations on what a good candidate should be or do. It's more of a personal thing for me. Voting for the sake of voting is like not voting at all. You are not getting what you'd like. After all, voting is a right, not an obligation.[/color] [/B][/QUOTE]

[color=green]You?re going to vote for a candidate based on if you think they meet your ?expectations on what a good candidate should be or do?? Whoa, shouldn?t you look into their proposed policies and their general politics as well? A candidate may act nicely and be a good person, but I wont elect them based on that alone.[/color]

[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by Heaven's Cloud [/i]
[B][color=indigo]I can find several reasons for not voting. First, if you view the Electoral College logically it is easy to see how it can invalidate a single vote. Even though ninety-nine times out of one hundred the popular candidate in a state wins the Electoral College, there is always that one percent of fallibility.[/color][/B][/QUOTE]

[color=green]Heaven?s Cloud has previously stated that these reasons can all be countered with logic, but I wish to make a few comments about his interpretation of the Electoral College.

The Electoral College, with few exceptions, follows the below voting rules.

In some states, all of the electors vote for the candidate that the majority of the state?s population voted for.

Ex: 51% Vote for candidate A. 49% vote for candidate B. All of the state electors vote for Candidate A.

In other states, electors vote according to how the state?s population as a whole voted.

Ex: 60% Vote for candidate A. 40% Vote for candidate B. Therefore, 60% of the electors vote for A, 40% vote for B.

Therefore, no votes are invalidated. Even if your candidate loses, your vote still made a difference in some way.[/color]

[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by Charles [/i]
[B]Everyone who is able to should vote. If it's not an immediate priority, it should be later. Failure to accept that responsibility is a slap in the face to those who sacrificed their lives to secure that right.[/B][/QUOTE]

[color=green]This I agree with totally.[/color]

[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by Charles [/i]
[B]If you look at who votes, it's probably about thirty percent of the eligible population. And, that piece of the pie is likely occupied by wealthy individuals who are wealthy because they know how the system works. They vote so that they can preserve it. [/B][/QUOTE]

[color=green]This I don?t.

First of all, 30% is far too low a number. The real statistic, as of the last election, is [URL=http://www.secstate.wa.gov/elections/voter_participation.aspx]57.62%[/URL].

Not only the wealthy vote Charles. That?s a completely incorrect statement.[/color]

[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by cloricus [/i]
[B]You really should vote... Though if you can't figure out who to vote for just do what [url=http://www.commondreams.org/news2000/0426-09.htm]Michael[/url] [url=http://abcnews.go.com/sections/politics/DailyNews/ELECTION_moore_chat.html]Moore[/url] [url=http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2003/07/17/60minutes/main563744.shtml]did[/url]. [/B][/QUOTE]

[color=green]Forgive me if I?m not inspired. Voting for a potted plant? That?ll change the system?[/color]

[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by DeathBug [/i]
[B][color=indigo][size=1][font=century]Young voters are the most politically unreliable voting block in history, and therefore have no politicians supporting our interests. Congess panders to the elderly because they are the most reliable voting block, in terms of whether or not they will vote.[/color][/size][/font] [/B][/QUOTE]

[color=green]No politicians catering to the young? Howard Dean is credited with using the Internet to appeal to younger voters. He didn?t do that well in Iowa, but he has appealed to some sections of the younger vote.

Congress spends an appropriate amount of time ?pandering to the elderly?. Medicare and Social Security are important programs that both of us will use someday.[/color]

[ChibiHorsewoman]

[color=violet]Well, I'm going to vote in the November elections, just like I did four years ago. I'm going to step into that booth in All Saints Gym and vote for whomever I think would do the best job.

I don't do it because it's a right or a privledge. ANd after what happened in 2000 I don't really vote becuase I think it'll make a difference. I just vote so if I don't like the president I can legitamately complain about him because I participated. I'm not just going to be one of those people who does [i]nothing[/i] but complains anyway-oh hell no, I'm gonna be one of those people who does [i]something[/i] then complains anyway.[/color]

[anime_guy]

Well now I'm 18 so I can vote, and I'm gunna... know who I want to vote for, and why, but I think if you don't knoe why, or who, then don't vote, it ruins the point if a million people just go and pick some random guy for president.

[xxxGothChickxxx]

I would chose not to vote I am not political at all. ANARCHIST! WOOHOO! I hate the goverment!

[color=darkred] firstly, welcome to OB. I would reccomend you read the rules. Post quality is one aspect of OB that we are priding ourselves in. Please explain your position in better detail. "Why are you an Anarchist?" Also, while a difference in opinion can create positive debate, perhaps discussing governments is taking the thread off-topic. Once again, welcome.
/nice
[/color] -Drix

[Japan]

Though I am just months away from the legal age to vote, which is in July. I don't really care for poilitics, but I will vote for whom I feel is best fit for the office they're running for.

[Guest cloricus]

[quote]Forgive me if I?m not inspired. Voting for a potted plant? That?ll change the system...[/quote]How do you know; it creates oxygen and doesn't like forest fires. Do any of you see politicians with those sorts of credentials and strong opinions that won?t change?

[Semjaza]

This just in: Michael Moore is an idiot to begin with.

I'm mixed on voting. On one hand, you want people to take control of the system and impact it positively. On the other hand, there's so many people in this city, let alone the entire union, that I wouldn't want making decisions for the country. It's evidenced even in just this one thread. Maybe it's better that they don't vote heh.

[DeathBug]

[color=indigo][size=1][font=century]I've been thinking...

I've decided I don't want to encourage others to vote, even though in a perfect world everyone would vote (and be informed on what/who they were voting for.)

You see, the more people that don't vote, the more the strength of the individual vote increases. So, when I vote, my vote is made stronger by the apathy of others, and my ability to influence public policy increases. I can live with that.[/color][/size][/font]

[RainbowChick]

in my opinion, people should vote for candidates that meet their expections. but i stronlgy disagree with voting just for the heck of it. that isn't fair for people who really believe in democracy.

[Charles]

[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by Boba Fett [/i]
[B][color=green]This I don?t.

First of all, 30% is far too low a number. The real statistic, as of the last election, is [URL=http://www.secstate.wa.gov/elections/voter_participation.aspx]57.62%[/URL].

Not only the wealthy vote Charles. That?s a completely incorrect statement.[/color][/B][/QUOTE]

[list]
[*]Your link isn't relevant to local elections. I'm speaking in broad terms. Elections don't begin and end with the Presidential elections. I'd say you're being a tad optimistic if you honestly believe such an inflated number of people participate in selecting their local, less publicized representatives.
[*]57.62% ain't impressing me much even if I [i]do[/i] throw you that bone. You're still talking about a large chunk of the population neglecting their responsibilities as citizens. So, what's that figure supposed to do for me? It doesn't paint a serious attitude towards voting from where I stand. It's still just a drop in the bucket. In foreign lands, such as Australia, they actually cancel your driver's license if you don't vote. Now, [i]that's[/i] serious encouragement.
[*] I never insisted that [b]only[/b] wealthy people vote. I said they're a [i]more likely[/i] demographic to vote. I didn't express that sentiment just for the heck of it, so allow me to explain. Lower class individuals either have a tendency to be nihilistic (they don't believe things are changing regardless of their votes) or they're just too damn busy working to support their families to be interested in politics. Either way, people with more resources readily available to them are typically going to be the ones to participate. Especially considering their greater experience operting within the system itself. [/list]