Gaming Nintendo DS

[Guest cloricus]

Hot off the press is some sketchy, but better than before, details of Nintendo's new handheld gaming system. [url=http://www.gamespydaily.com/news/fullstory.asp?id=5624]Link[/url]. This report has been confirmed by Nintendo as real if you were wondering.

Reading about the DS and others comments it sounds like a good idea, at least in most cases games could really rule with two screens though it could be slightly hard to get used too. Another factor is this will probably replace the GameBoy line and name which would be a shame because of the history. (And memories. :p)

What do others think of it with these specs? Would you buy it or are you still paying off your last Gameboy...

[Semjaza]

If this is what I think it is... It really shouldn't be replacing anything in the future. I wouldn't be concerned about that heh.

Nintendo--Iwata specifically--has been talking about this thing for months. The idea that it was a new system, but it wasn't next in the line for anything. It wouldn't take the place of the Game Boy or console line they develop currently. It's kind of like their new iQue system in concept in that sense.

It was to be a rather stand-alone system that would bring something new and innovative to the table. This idea, however, apparently required a new set of hardware to create. It would be marketed seperately from the GBA and GCN lines. All of these things were things he has referred to (cryptically lol) in the past...

So apparently that's what this is, especially since Iwata planned to show it at E3 and that's where the DS is set to make its first appearance. I can't say I can draw much of an opinion on it so far heh. So far it sounds rather gimmicky and reminds me of a Virtual Boy without a headset lol.

[James]

[color=#707875]I think that this is what Nintendo should have done in the beginning.

I wrote an article a while ago about connectivity and how it isn't really workable, because of price constraints and things like that.

[i]But[/i], the idea of having two screens for one game is a great concept. When it works...it works really well (especially when you look at Four Swords and Pac-Man).

I feel that this machine is the natural evolution of that idea. So I'm personally pleased to hear about this announcement.

It'll be interesting to see how the whole thing works when E3 comes around.[/color]

[Zidane]

I think dual screens is great, My friend had 3 screen set up for a driving game at his house, Each screen was for a different view e.g righ screen was the right side window, The feel was intense and felt like u were really driving, Anyway if this new DS is anything like that it should boost the gaming experience atleast 2 fold.

[Ganon6d9]

This one actually sounds like a pretty good idea to me, taking into account the size of a handheld screen. you could, for example, be playing a First-Person Shooter and while one screen displays the main action the other one could show your ammo and weapons etc.

It would also work well in a racing game, while one screen shows your car, the other one could show you a map. It would greatly improve upon the amount of action shown in the actual game, you could display more without having to sacrifice quality for the speed of a game or something along those lines.

Another way they could use the Dual Screens is to have an Eternal Darkness style game with an isometric perepective, but when you target an enemy you could target specific parts of their body by using the other screen. The same idea could also apply for an FPS, use one screen for sniping when you zoom in but still being able to see an enemy that is right in front of you.

All things considering, I think this is a step up from handhelds and a step forward in gaming. I'm eagerly awaiting the unveiling of it at E3 to see how the idea works out.

[Flashlight]

As you have all said, this dual screen gimmick sounds like a good idea, and I really hope it works, but I'm sitting here wondering, "If it's not a successor to the GBA, then what the heck is it?"
If it's not the GBA's successor, that means it will most likely be competing with the GBA on the market, and that doesn't make much sense (Unless Nintendo is trying to phaze out the GBA, but that still doesn't make much sense).
I'm also concerned about the size of the N DS, 2 3" screens + the space needed for controls ect seems a little big to me (How many centimetres is that?).
But, besides this and a few other little worries, the N DS seems pretty cool to me, and I'm really looking forward to it!

Oh, and if anyone cares, gamespot also has 2 articles on this. :)

[Shinmaru]

What I found interesting is that the article mostly seemed to refer to using the dual screens in a single-player context, rather than multiplayer. This quote, especially, highlights single player:

[quote]From information made available today, players can look forward to being able to simultaneously manage their game progress from two different perspectives, enhancing both the speed and strategy of the challenge. For example, players will no longer be forced to interrupt game play to shift perspective, such as moving from a wide shot to a close up, or alternating between a character's ongoing battle and a map of their environment. Nintendo DS makes it possible to perform the tasks in real time by simply glancing from one screen to the other.[/quote]

The multiplayer uses for the DS are fairly obvious (I mean, like James said, stuff like Pac-Man and Four Swords would be perfect for this), but I'm actually pretty interested to see how Nintendo can use the DS to expand upon single-player games, as well.

[Brasil]

Yeah, but will it replace Battleship?








Forgive the Spam, please; I just couldn't resist.

[Dan Rugh]

Am I the only one that was disappointed to find out that [i]this[/i] was the mystery product. It' basically a gameboy with another screen. "Something you've never seen before" hyped this up way more than it should've been.

[Guest cloricus]

[quote]The multiplayer uses for the DS are fairly obvious.[/quote]What is the point of multiplayer with only one control set?

Also Dan Rugh judging by how closely they are keeping info on this system I'd say they don't want to be beaten at the post, basically these are only small bits to keep the market happy and we haven't seen most of the improvements. Then again the dual screen could well just be... it.

[Semjaza]

The article doesn't actually mention how many control sets there would be. Honestly, if there's two screens, I'd expect a certain number of buttons to be delegated to each of them... most likely full controls.

Really, in the end, it doesn't matter how many new ideas they throw onto this thing if they don't make the games take advantage of it while still being fun. That was the main issue with the Virtual Boy. In addition to the cost and health issues, very few games even took advantage of the 3D display in any new way.

So as long as they come up with some good applications for this and not lame things like putting menu selections on the second screen (just press Select or Start, what's the big deal in that?)... I think it could work out. It could result in a lot of fun cooperative game styles.

However, at this point I really don't see how this is much different than linking two GBAs together. In fact, I can't see how the thing would even cost less than buying two GBAs for yourself... especially considering the screen amount and size.

I'm not too impressed so far, but obviously little has been said. I'll have to see it in action.

[Shinmaru]

[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by cloricus [/i]
[B]What is the point of multiplayer with only one control set?[/B][/QUOTE]

That's where the "multi" part of this comes in...as in more than one. I'd hardly think that Nintendo would keep this limited to single-player only, especially with how hard they've been pushing multiplayer over the past few years. Making the DS usable only in single-player would really alienate a lot of the audience that Nintendo would be going for, I think.

[James]

[color=#707875]There is a massive difference between this and linking two GBAs together. Again, I think it's about connectivity.

As I said before, the concept of connectivity is great. Look at Kirby's Tilt 'n' Tumble -- the way in which you use two screens to play the game. It's the kind of game that you really can't do on a single screen. The same applies to Pac-Man and Four Swords.

I don't believe for a moment that Nintendo intends to simply produce a "two-screened GameBoy". Frankly, they aren't that stupid. lol

You may be quite surprised when you see the software and functions that are revealed at E3 this year.[/color]

[Semjaza]

I don't think it would be a two-screened Game Boy, but I'm failing to see what sort of newfound applications they'll suddenly be able to do with this that couldn't have been done in some form elsewhere. My comments were geared towards the idea of making this thing for multiplayer applications and in that case, I don't see how it would make a difference. Obviously it would be a different case for single player games.

Nintendo has had years to do something interesting with the connectivity aspect on the GCN/GBA and for the most part it has been a failure. As of right now, I have no real reason to think this will suddenly be the saving grace of the "connectivity" idea like some are making it sound -- which up until this point has really acted as little more than a colored VMU.

As for Four Swords GC, last I read in an interview they were also going to work in a PIP for people without a GBA, which makes more sense in the first place. If that were applied to a portable system, why would it need anything than a couple of linked Game Boys anyway? Forcing you to play underground sections on a GBA and the rest on the GCN is hardly my idea of innovative gameplay. That game interests me just because it looks like a blast, not because of the "connectivity".

The only real thing that makes me interested in this is that because of the set up, it would probably be able to pull off far more complex games than the GBA can... especially in terms of the GBA's limited multiplayer scope. Sure, they're going to take advantage of this, but it's not something that has got me all that optimistic so far.

This isn't grabbing my attention, especially based on the examples given so far. Unless they magically come up with another game that basically isn't a clone of something else they've tried to do elsewhere, I can't see this taking my money.

Of course, I have no final opinion on it. I won't until I actually play the thing.

[James]

[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by Semjaza Azazel [/i]
[B]I don't think it would be a two-screened Game Boy, but I'm failing to see what sort of newfound applications they'll suddenly be able to do with this that couldn't have been done in some form elsewhere. My comments were geared towards the idea of making this thing for multiplayer applications and in that case, I don't see how it would make a difference. Obviously it would be a different case for single player games.[/quote][/b]

[color=#707875]Well, again...if you play games like Pac-Man Vs. or Four Swords for GameCube, you'll notice how the two screen format can work.

Connectivity has provided a platform for new types of games, but the concept isn't being supported to any great degree. And that's simply due to cost. Very few people are going to buy three or four GBAs, just to play a couple of connectivity-enabled games.

Nintendo are still talking about connectivity. But I don't think they should, at least, not in the terms that they've been using thusfar.

The Nintendo DS is a potential solution to the fundamental cost problems of connectivity. If Nintendo can provide unique multi-screen games -- games that [i]require[/i] two screens to be playable -- and if they can do it at a reasonable cost, I think it's an inventive idea that could be a success.

So, my belief is that the gameplay generated (or promised) by connectivity is what they're aiming at here.[/color][quote][b]

Nintendo has had years to do something interesting with the connectivity aspect on the GCN/GBA and for the most part it has been a failure. As of right now, I have no real reason to think this will suddenly be the saving grace of the "connectivity" idea like some are making it sound -- which up until this point has really acted as little more than a colored VMU.[/quote][/b]

[color=#707875]I agree. And again, it comes down to the cost factor.

I think that while the [i]idea[/i] is sound, it's not feasable in terms of the market.

Why would there be any reason to suggest anything [i]other[/i] than this being something that is connectivity-centric?

Let's remember that the very few games to truly rely on connectivity are games that actually require two screens in order to be played. It's a great idea. As I mentioned above, Kirby's Tilt 'n' Tumble is a fantastic demonstration of what connectivity can be at its best.

But it's not going to happen with the GBA and GameCube.

So why not develop a third platform, to take full advantage of this multi-screen gameplay concept? I think it makes sense, provided that Nintendo [i]do[/i] support the technology with the appropriate software.

And I have no reason to think that they won't. Obviously, nobody knows what the specific games are going to be at this point. But the concept is sound and we do know that the games which require connectivity (although perhaps not Final Fantasy: Crystal Chronicles) are actually quite different to regular single-screen games.[/color][quote][b]

As for Four Swords GC, last I read in an interview they were also going to work in a PIP for people without a GBA, which makes more sense in the first place. If that were applied to a portable system, why would it need anything than a couple of linked Game Boys anyway? Forcing you to play underground sections on a GBA and the rest on the GCN is hardly my idea of innovative gameplay. That game interests me just because it looks like a blast, not because of the "connectivity".[/quote][/b]

[color=#707875]Picture in picture defeats the purpose of what makes the game fun, though.

The idea is that you can actually enter buildings and other areas of the map [i]without[/i] your teammates seeing what you're doing.

Who wants to have a three picture in picture displays on the same screen? That entirely defeats the purpose.

This may not be your idea of innovative gameplay, but don't be in any doubt that Four Swords is providing a direction, rather than a location. In other words, games like this are demonstrating the potential of multi-screen-based games. I'm certainly not implying that they are the be-all and end-all, or that they themselves are some sort of killer application for the technology, because I don't believe that to be true. But they are definitely indicators of where it can go.[/color][quote][b]

The only real thing that makes me interested in this is that because of the set up, it would probably be able to pull off far more complex games than the GBA can... especially in terms of the GBA's limited multiplayer scope. Sure, they're going to take advantage of this, but it's not something that has got me all that optimistic so far.[/quote][/b]

[color=#707875]Well, you don't know enough to be optimistic. The same is true for most people. The same is even true for myself. Right now, we only know that it's a multi-screen unit and that it will play new types of games.

But I'm not going into the situation with a pessimistic attitude toward it, because I know what has already been achieved with connectivity...and I know what can potentially be done with a unit like this. I'm sure that after E3, you will definitely have a different perspective, simply because more information is available.[/color][quote][b]

This isn't grabbing my attention, especially based on the examples given so far. Unless they magically come up with another game that basically isn't a clone of something else they've tried to do elsewhere, I can't see this taking my money.[/quote][/b]

[color=#707875]Have you played either Four Swords or Pac-Man Vs.? I think that when you try these games out, you realize the kind of potential that exists.

Having said that, it's obvious that these two games are very light demonstrations in and of themselves. I personally feel that Kirby's Tilt 'n' Tumble is a far better demonstration of what can be achieved with this setup. Nobody who played that game had a negative word to say about it, basically. It was very obvious that it was truly a game that went past being reliant on some kind of gimmick.

I think you'll find that Nintendo isn't going to be cloning what they've done in the past. And that's simply because there's very little to clone, in regard to something like this. [/color][quote][b]

Of course, I have no final opinion on it. I won't until I actually play the thing. [/B][/QUOTE]

[color=#707875]Absolutely. I'm sure the same is true for everyone; the proof will be in the playing.

I'm simply pointing out that there is more to this announcement than you may realize initially. I would definitely not compare the Nintendo DS to the Virtual Boy, even at this early stage.

So, hopefully Nintendo will provide us with plenty of new software to try out at E3. I'm definitely looking forward to seeing what they come up with -- and I hope that they focus on the DS, in terms of these new connectivity games, rather than relying on the cumbersome GBA/GCN approach.[/color]

[Guest cloricus]

Excuse me James but how can Pac-Man be multiplayer or anything different to the original Atari version? (Apart from better graphics.) I just can't understand what you are talking about.

Also I'm not sure if you people understand what others are getting at in the way of memory allocation so just to put it in perspective; that sort of power shouldn?t be in a handheld gaming system... I can see game programmers jumping for joy and having a field day.

[Shinmaru]

[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by cloricus [/i]
[B]Excuse me James but how can Pac-Man be multiplayer or anything different to the original Atari version? (Apart from better graphics.) I just can't understand what you are talking about. [/B][/QUOTE]

James is referring to the version of Pac-Man released for the GameCube with copies of different Namco games (I forget which ones at the moment, heh). It's called Pac-Man vs., I believe, and involves GBA-GC connectivity. The first player uses the GameCube and plays as Pac-Man and the other people use GBAs to play as the ghosts.

So, yeah, that's what James is talking about, heh.

[Brasil]

[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by cloricus [/i]
[B]Also I'm not sure if you people understand what others are getting at in the way of memory allocation so just to put it in perspective; that sort of power shouldn?t be in a handheld gaming system... I can see game programmers jumping for joy and having a field day. [/B][/QUOTE]

Ahem...so, are you against a more powerful handheld system? One that may rival a desktop console? Cloricus, you know I respect you a lot. Your opinions and views are just so informed and intelligent, you know? But, even with this boundless respect I hold for you, I cannot begin to see any logic in your post[size=1]s[/size].

You seem to be against a handheld or non-desktop console having those kind of capabilities, the kind of capabilities that may rival desktop console gaming.

Let's take your statement a step further, shall we?

Are you saying that you dislike the GBA, simply because it has more power than NES?

Are you saying that we should shun the GBA SP because it is a portable SNES?

"I can see game programmers jumping for joy and having a field day."

You say that like it's a bad thing.

EDIT: And I suppose your reply is going to feature some bizarre point about system size and processing speed, where it's unnatural for a smaller unit to overpower a larger one.

Well, I've got a 64 Mb, USB high capacity storage device no bigger than a small marker, that is far more reliable than a bulky, 100 Mb ZIP disk.

You mean to tell me that the ZIP is better, simply because it's bigger and "natural"?

[Guest cloricus]

No; my reply is going to be one of confusion, PoisonTongue.

I love portable systems, a lot (looks over at game boy colour on floor, pda on desk and portable tetris in bin) and I'm saying that power like this in portable systems is just some thing that a lot of us thought wouldn't be in some thing portable, this soon at least.

So before you go on your normal spiel think about what you say before you type, okay? And next time ask instead of accuse.

[Brasil]

[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by cloricus [/i]
[B]No; my reply is going to be one of confusion, PoisonTongue.

I love portable systems, a lot (looks over at game boy colour on floor, pda on desk and portable tetris in bin) and I'm saying that power like this in portable systems is just some thing that a lot of us thought wouldn't be in some thing portable, this soon at least.

So before you go on your normal spiel think about what you say before you type, okay? And next time ask instead of accuse. [/B][/QUOTE]

Ooh...you really let me have it, huh? Don't take that kind of tone with me, Cloricus. It's not welcome here, or anywhere on OB. You should really keep that in mind, so...before you go on your normal spiel think about what you say before you type, okay?

I can throw the same sentence right back at you, so it would be of your best interests to remove thineself from thine rectum.

Charles has already warned you about your attitude, too, hasn't he?

Furthermore, it would suit you as well to acquire a grasp on the English language, or language in general, before writing a post like the one quoted above. If you read with any attention to detail, you would realize that I did in fact use questions. I am going to ask you another question here, too. I want to make that perfectly clear, as you seem to ignore anything that isn't made blatantly obvious.

Do you pay attention to detail only when you feel like it, or only when it will benefit your inane argument?

Now, on-topic. I don't have too much time here, but I'd be very intrigued to see just what kind of software N is planning with this new system. The gaming possibilities are very interesting. Two player co-op would certainly be cool.

I keep coming back to Super Mario Bros Deluxe on GameBoy Color. The link mode featured a competitive mode in which both players raced against each other through levels designed for the race mode.

With this dual system screen, I think it would be very neat to incorporate the SMB Deluxe idea into a more developed gameplay. I would love to see original levels used for the races. It would be precisely what I have been doing already, seeing just how fast I can get through SMB1 without dying. It would make for some very interesting races...

[Shinmaru]

[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by PoisonTongue [/i]
[B]Now, on-topic. I don't have too much time here, but I'd be very intrigued to see just what kind of software N is planning with this new system. The gaming possibilities are very interesting. Two player co-op would certainly be cool.

I keep coming back to Super Mario Bros Deluxe on GameBoy Color. The link mode featured a competitive mode in which both players raced against each other through levels designed for the race mode.

With this dual system screen, I think it would be very neat to incorporate the SMB Deluxe idea into a more developed gameplay. I would love to see original levels used for the races. It would be precisely what I have been doing already, seeing just how fast I can get through SMB1 without dying. It would make for some very interesting races... [/B][/QUOTE]

I think it's ideas like these that could very well make or break the DS...it's still fairly early in the creative process, I believe, and I'm sure that Nintendo is already brewing up ideas similar to this as we speak (or type lol). I really think that they've learned their lesson from the Virtual Boy era and Nintendo definitely won't be mishandling this system...they could really create some innovative stuff, handheld wise, with this, heh.

Hopefully, tons more information about the DS will be passed out come E3.

[Guest cloricus]

[quote]Hopefully, tons more information about the DS will be passed out come E3[/quote]I suspect that Nintendo will strategically "leak" information about it in the coming month?s right up until E3, and maybe if they use Microsoft some hackers might steal the plans too. (Hehehe...)

[James]

[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by cloricus [/i]
[B]I suspect that Nintendo will strategically "leak" information about it in the coming month?s right up until E3, and maybe if they use Microsoft some hackers might steal the plans too. (Hehehe...) [/B][/QUOTE]

[color=#707875]I doubt that Nintendo will be leaking anything, as such. It's not Nintendo's style. They're like the CIA; it's very, very rare that anything is leaked from within the company.

However, I do think that Nintendo will reveal more details before E3 rolls around. We might actually see some photographs of the hardware before the show and if we're lucky, we'll hear something about software.

But it's relatively unlikely at the moment, I'd say. Nintendo generally provide very little information until the show itself, because they would prefer that journalists actually play the machine, rather than simply look at pictures and write about it from that point of view.[/color]

[Shinmaru]

[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by James [/i]
[B][color=#707875]I doubt that Nintendo will be leaking anything, as such. It's not Nintendo's style. They're like the CIA; it's very, very rare that anything is leaked from within the company.

However, I do think that Nintendo will reveal more details before E3 rolls around. We might actually see some photographs of the hardware before the show and if we're lucky, we'll hear something about software.

But it's relatively unlikely at the moment, I'd say. Nintendo generally provide very little information until the show itself, because they would prefer that journalists actually play the machine, rather than simply look at pictures and write about it from that point of view.[/color] [/B][/QUOTE]

I agree with James here, simply because that is the best way to go about it. I mean, the average person whom doesn't have access to E3 would probably prefer that Nintendo "leak" information...but would you really get an objective point of view on the DS? No, everything would be subjective to the individual journalists perceptions of what the DS would be like.

And, as James pointed out, that's why Nintendo doesn't leak information; they're smart enough to know that they'll get the best reaction when they spring something like the DS at a big show like E3 and allow the media full and ready access to it. And really, wouldn't you better trust the judgement of someone who has actually played the darn thing over someone who is judging the DS based on information that was leaked? I know I would.

[Guest cloricus]

Really? I remember for about six months before the N64 came out they dropped heaps of hints, mainly on children?s tv after noon show?s like Amazing where the host would just keep saying (at least once a show) things like "The 64 is coming!" and "N64, will you be ready for it?" so it got kind of annoying but he would add in every so often a small touch of info about it. This was done on several shows like it and I noticed it worked very well as several friends bought it the day it came out.

So are you saying is this unlike them and just some weird marketing thing they did as a test? Noting that I?ve never paid attention to any other advertising by them so I?m unsure.