Gaming Nintendo DS

[BlueYoshi]

[quote name='James][color=#707875']I don't think that the DS and PSP are really comparable, as I've mentioned before. Moreover, I wouldn't say that the DS is actually a response to the PSP. The DS is more a response to the stagnation of the industry than anything else (not to mention that there are some great flow-on effects from having strong developer support on the DS).[/color][/quote]

[COLOR=Teal]Pretty much so. They both characterise different and high-tech specs that the SP currently wouldn't be able to live up to, and [i]if[/i] the SP is Nintendo's battle plan for the PSP then they seriously have another thing coming, as the only barrier between the two systems are the prices. Don?t get me wrong, I?m not saying that it is, that?s just the way I see it.

I don't believe that the DS is just an addition to the company to merely boost morale; they have many other products that can accomplish that, in and out of development. The NES style SP, for example. The DS may have been developed for the benefit of Nintendo's own purposes, which may contribute to sales, but when it comes to the crunch, they'll have to bite the bullet and step down to the PSP, because Sony is home to one of the most highly acclaimed consoles of this generation.

Overall, Nintendo will definitely need a higher degree of competitiveness, even if it's not a "response" to the PSP.[/COLOR]

[QUOTE=James][color=#707875]Firstly, finalized games weren't being shown at E3. As Miyamoto himself said, the demos were all deliberately kept very short. More importantly still, you've mentioned MP: Hunters (and there [i]are [/i]plenty of franchise titles on the machine), but the vast majority of game demos at E3 were totally original pieces (like the Submarine demo). I don't know how many of these will be turned into games, but the same can probably be said for the franchise demos also.

The second key thing to remember is that while MP: Hunters might be a "franchise title", the core gameplay is still fundamentally changed as a result of the hardware that it is running on, whereas MGS Acid is a slightly different situation. The PSP essentially just replicates the PS2's control system, whereas the DS attempts to provide something pretty new and unseen. This is why all of the demos at the show actually relied on both screens, as well as touch-screen compatibility.[/color][/QUOTE]

[COLOR=Teal]What's seen in the E3 demos is an idea of what Nintendo has planned in terms of software for the DS. True, we can't tell what will be fully developed and what won't, but teasers are enough to demonstrate what's in store for us.

I can see your point under this aspect, the DS certainly does provide a new load that hasn?t been seen on a handheld before, however, it won?t necessarily justify the fact that few of these games have already been done, or if they?re going to be poor for that matter. In any case, I do agree with your statement that shows the relative difference between both systems, the PSP seemingly is a replica.

MP: Hunters is a typical alien shoot ?em up. It?s been done before and a second instalment is soon to be released. Primarily though, I know it?s a good game and I wouldn?t hesitate to buy it, because it motivates long life span, game play, and decent graphics. Heck, I?d even say it?s up there with Halo. The fact that I know it sustains enhanced controls and game play makes me want it even more.

In the light of that argument though, consistently producing games as such would get repetitive and wouldn?t prosper in my books. I don?t want to blow off any of the games even before their release, but I?d just like some form of piece of mind.[/COLOR]

[Guest ScirosDarkblade]

Well, I personally see the DS as the superior system, simply because I think it will have better games. (I don't give a crap about how "innovative" or original any of the mechanics are; I just care about good games.) However, it cannot be denied, as I've mentioned earlier, that Sony currently has a much stronger footing in the console market than does Nintendo. The PSP is Sony's first attempt to venture into the handheld market, and although so far everything else trying to compete with the Gameboy failed, Sony is [i]not[/i] everyone else. Certainly when it comes to marketing, Sony beats the hell out of Nintendo and Microsoft.

Also, one can never underestimate the poor tastes and reasoning of the casual gamer, who may buy a PS2 over a GCN because the PS2 can play DVDs, when a $25 DVD player would be of higher quality. The PS2, when it cost double that of the Gamecube, still sold reasonably well. Yes, the price of the PSP will probably hurt it, but I think there are plenty of prospective buyers out there nevertheless.

Basically, if Nintendo wants to crush Sony's venture into the handheld market, it cannot do it with the DS. Or the GBA sp. Or any system, for that matter. (Hardware doesn't count for jack; the Gamecube is more powerful than the PS2, and the N64 was more powerful than the Playstation.) Nintendo can only do it with killer marketing.

[Semjaza]

Not using sequels and franchise characters to push this system would be a huge mistake in my opinion. To expect a company like Nintendo, with tons of characters under its belt, to basically make nothing but totally unique games for a new system is a bit much.

The DS is something new for a lot of people. It requires a new style of gameplay from those who purchase it. To have something unique like this and not back it with franchise games would make absolutely no sense from a marketing perspective. Games like Pac-man, Mario and Metroid being on this system at least guarantee a level of interest from consumers that simply would not exist if the only games for it featured unknowns.

Besides, no game can truly be simply ported to the DS as it is. Everything that was shown was substantially different from any game it might have been based on, even if that just meant using the touch screen in some odd way. Games have to be altered just to take advantage of the system's abilities.

As for comparisons to the PSP... I don't know. They're in competition and they're not. Obviously Sony wants to affect the pretty much rock-solid Game Boy brand name. However, doing so by charging $300 for the system, $50 for games and having a super low battery life sure brings that probability of that down a lot. The GBA is an every day person's device... the PSP seems like its marketed to the same people who will blow $500 on a MP3 player when there's one that's just as good for $250.

Personally I have very little interest in playing a bunch of games I could play on my PS2 on the road. That's me though.

[BlueGender]

[COLOR=Navy][SIZE=1]The battery life being 2-10 hours basically means to me that they have it at 2 hours and are going for 10. I mean who really wants to switch batteries in there PSP 2/3 through a 3 hour movie. If the systems battery life increases to 7 hours i'll pick it up. I was hoping for a whole bunch of original titles for the PSP but I kind of think 3rd parties are waiting to see how sales of the system do before they jump into developing for a system that could possibly be a complete flop (N-gage). [/SIZE] [/COLOR]

[James]

[quote name='BlueYoshi][color=teal]Pretty much so. They both characterise different and high-tech specs that the SP currently wouldn't be able to live up to, and [i]if[/i'] the SP is Nintendo's battle plan for the PSP then they seriously have another thing coming, as the only barrier between the two systems are the prices. Don?t get me wrong, I?m not saying that it is, that?s just the way I see it.[/quote][/color]
[color=teal][/color]
[color=teal][color=dimgray]I think that we are always used to the idea that two companies are competing on the same level. But it's just not the case, especially with these "next generation" portable systems.[/color][/color]
[color=teal][color=#696969][/color][/color]
[color=teal][color=#696969]You'll find that to some degree, the PSP will be competing with the GBA SP. But this shouldn't be alarming to anyone -- we've seen a history where the Game Boy has repeatedly put down opposition with superior hardware. I'm not saying that PSP will not survive, because I think it is Sony's best chance to enter the handheld market. What I [i]am [/i]saying, is that PSP is introducing itself to a market that already has a dominant leader.[/color][/color]
[color=teal][color=#696969][/color][/color]
[color=teal][color=#696969]Moreover, you could argue that GBA SP and PSP are aimed at slightly different audiences, even though their demographics admittedly overlap to some extent.[/color][/color]
[color=teal][color=#696969][/color][/color]
[color=teal][color=#696969]In regard to the DS, I think it's clear that DS isn't a direct competitor to the PSP. There are so many reasons for this. First and foremost, the DS hardware is fundamentally different to anything out there.[/color][/color]
[color=teal][color=#696969][/color][/color]
[color=teal][color=#696969]You might say that Metroid Prime: Hunters is the same old thing, but I don't think that's the case. Apart from the fact that the control inputs are different, we're also presumably talking about a multiplayer-focused, Wi-Fi-based game. The dynamic present in Hunters is probably more akin to Unreal Tournament than the original Metroid Prime, if only because it's entirely focused on multiplayer. So already, even though we're talking about an existing franchise, we're still talking about quite a unique game.[/color][/color]
[color=#696969][/color]
[color=#696969][quote=BlueYoshi][/color][color=teal]

I don't believe that the DS is just an addition to the company to merely boost morale; they have many other products that can accomplish that, in and out of development. The NES style SP, for example. The DS may have been developed for the benefit of Nintendo's own purposes, which may contribute to sales, but when it comes to the crunch, they'll have to bite the bullet and step down to the PSP, because Sony is home to one of the most highly acclaimed consoles of this generation.[/quote]
[color=dimgray]The problem is that I think this is a really simplistic analysis of the competition as it stands right now. The primary reason is because the console market is fundamentally different from the handheld market. A clear example of this would be the fact that a large percentage of GBA SP buyers are women -- yet this is not a demographic that Sony actively seeks with PlayStation 2. If you want to get serious about the industry, it becomes very difficult to make such broad comparisons.[/color]
[color=#696969][/color]
[color=#696969]More importantly still, there's still the underlying assumption that PSP and DS are in the same "class" of product. But the two are, for all intents and purposes, completely different machines. The DS's unique hardware is only going to provide support to particular types of games -- games that make deliberate use of that hardware. The case is completely different for PSP. If anything, the two systems probably complement each other, more than directly competing. I think this will become evident when the two machines actually launch.[/color]

[quote=BlueYoshi]
Overall, Nintendo will definitely need a higher degree of competitiveness, even if it's not a "response" to the PSP.[/quote][/color]

[color=dimgray]What makes you say that they are in need of a higher degree of competitiveness? 20+ million GBAs isn't competitive enough?[/color]

[color=#696969]Nintendo is plenty competitive, regardless of the PSP's introduction to the marketplace. I can tell you right now, without any hesitation, that even if the DS were not launching, Nintendo could quite comfortably rely on the GBA as its bread and butter -- irrespective of whether or not the PSP is a success.[/color]

[color=#696969]I think that this E3 demonstrated that Nintendo is being proactive in their approach. They aren't responding to Sony -- they're going out there and marching to the beat of their own drum. You could say that they've entirely bypassed the PSP, by attempting something that is possibly even more risky: the development of an entirely new market segment.[/color]
[quote=BlueYoshi]
[color=teal]What's seen in the E3 demos is an idea of what Nintendo has planned in terms of software for the DS. True, we can't tell what will be fully developed and what won't, but teasers are enough to demonstrate what's in store for us.[/quote]
[color=dimgray]Absolutely. The demos were deliberately short, to show both the media and the developers what kind of variety we could see in the DS hardware, when applied to different kinds of software.[/color]
[color=#696969][/color]
[color=#696969]Obviously, Nintendo would be crazy not to launch the DS with plenty of franchise support. The same can be said for Sony and the PSP. But this is unrelated to the idea that games will be stale, or repetitive. In fact, the opposite is true, because Nintendo is deliberately creating games that are "DS-centric", rather than games that one might consider to be a port. Nintendo is exercising this same degree of control -- for lack of a better term -- over third party developers. And from what we've seen of their responses, we can expect anything [i]but [/i]rehashed, repetitive ideas.[/color]

[quote=BlueYoshi]
I can see your point under this aspect, the DS certainly does provide a new load that hasn?t been seen on a handheld before, however, it won?t necessarily justify the fact that few of these games have already been done, or if they?re going to be poor for that matter. In any case, I do agree with your statement that shows the relative difference between both systems, the PSP seemingly is a replica.[/quote]
[color=dimgray]Even if a few of those games have been done before, how would that be different to any other system out there, including PSP? As long as the vast majority of games are DS-centric in terms of their gameplay, we don't have to worry about a small few that may or may not be rehashes of existing concepts. But even that scenario seems unlikely to me, because Nintendo has set up what I'd call a "DS-centric model". This includes a particular model of developer support, where developers who don't wish to contribute DS-centric software will be encouraged to develop for GBA instead.[/color]
[color=#696969][/color]
[color=#696969]I think it's safe to assume that not every game on DS will blow people away. Every system comes with its collection of relatively poor games. And not every developer will be able to make the system work in the right way. But that shouldn't give us an impression that DS is unimpressive, or not able to fulfill its original goals.[/color]

[quote=BlueYoshi]
MP: Hunters is a typical alien shoot ?em up. It?s been done before and a second instalment is soon to be released. Primarily though, I know it?s a good game and I wouldn?t hesitate to buy it, because it motivates long life span, game play, and decent graphics. Heck, I?d even say it?s up there with Halo. The fact that I know it sustains enhanced controls and game play makes me want it even more.
[/quote]
[color=dimgray]If you read about MP2's multiplayer mode, you may realize that Hunters isn't at all a typical shoot 'em up. That's the first point -- and I'm not just talking about controls or something, I'm talking about the way the game is played on a fundamental level.[/color]

[quote=BlueYoshi]
In the light of that argument though, consistently producing games as such would get repetitive and wouldn?t prosper in my books. I don?t want to blow off any of the games even before their release, but I?d just like some form of piece of mind.[/color][/QUOTE]
[color=dimgray]I don't think that we'll see a billion Metroid Prime: Hunters games out there. Especially based on what we've seen from third party submissions so far (especially Namco).[/color]
[color=#696969][/color]
[color=#696969]MP: Hunters is just one possibility. And there are probably thousands of others, as indicated by Nintendo's on-hand software demos. The key thing is to be realistic about all of this -- I'm certainly not giving the DS an outright pass or anything, but I do feel that it's important to clarify certain points about it.[/color]

[BlueYoshi]

[COLOR=Teal]I think a few of you are beginning to misunderstand my whole point on franchising games. For that I apologise.

Quite simply, my argument is that I want something new, in the form of a franchise or not. I want to feel that Nintendo (and Sony for that matter) are making that extra bit of effort to satisfy consumer demands. Still don't get it?

Take Mario for example. At first it was merely a 2D platformer with the utmost basic controls and life span, however, Nintendo took it further by releasing Mario 64, where we saw a 3D Mario for the first time showing off new moves and atmospheres--though it held onto its original plot, to rescue peach.

But then, Nintendo introduced Mario to the GCN, along with new game play and enhanced graphics, plus a story that entailed Mario as an innocent person convicted of graffiti crimes, thus enter FLUDD, a high-powered water-dispensing machine. This allowed for FLUDD to fit in perfectly with the story's background, it all made sense, even though the plot still revolved around rescuing Peach.

Mario Sunshine took the series to the fullest, I think. It made full use of the Yoshi's (who weren't playable in 3D form before), and even had time to introduce a new character to the franchise--Baby Bowser. I'm sure the same can be said for Metroid Prime, too. Switching perspective modes was a huge step for Nintendo, and it also came as a bigger surprise for gamers. That's the feeling I want.[/COLOR]

[Semjaza]

I really don't understand how you don't seem to think putting these games on a handheld device that requires new forms in interaction will not be a signifcant change from what is currently out there. That's the impression I'm getting, unless I'm reading you wrong.

Sure, Metroid Prime: Hunters in its current form is really just like MP2's deathmatch mode. Except of course that you have to tap the screen where you want to shoot. That alone changes quite a bit of the game and is a pretty unique idea in my opinion. Plus you can play against others wirelessly.

Then you have Pacpix. You draw little Pac-Men on the screen and have them eat the pellets. IT's a weird sort of puzzle game and hard to explain adequately, but it wouldn't even be possible without something like the DS. Sure, it uses a very well known character, but it's obviously doing new things with it. Even Pac and Roll was a rather unique take on standard Pac-Man maze games.

Wario Ware even seemed somewhat original. There's already been two versions of the game so far and I figured this would be more of the same. And in a way it is, but the touch screen allows for new styles of gameplay that really just would have not even been possible on a normal GBA.

So I don't know. If you've not had the chance, I suggest finding some videos of people actually playing the unit. I wasn't convinced that it was anything special until I read all the impressions of the smaller games and watched videos of people using the thing. Very much worth the time.

You have to keep in mind that thse are just demos. Some might become full games, some might not. The main idea was simply to show what the DS could do. When these things are applied to full games people will pay for, I'm sure many new gameplay ideas will be forumlated.

[James]

[color=#707875]I think that Tony is really expressing the point that I've been trying to make, in a very clear way.

I think that you will have that feeling of newness with DS, simply because there's nothing else like it out there. The sheer act of interacting with existing games differently will be a unique experience. Again, I think that Tony's examples are good to remember. It's also a good idea to read impressions from those who have played the demos at E3.[/color]

[Guest ScirosDarkblade]

[QUOTE=James]I think that we are always used to the idea that two companies are competing on the same level. But it's just not the case, especially with these "next generation" portable systems.
...You'll find that to some degree, the PSP will be competing with the GBA SP. But this shouldn't be alarming to anyone -- we've seen a history where the Game Boy has repeatedly put down opposition with superior hardware. I'm not saying that PSP will not survive, because I think it is Sony's best chance to enter the handheld market. What I [i]am [/i]saying, is that PSP is introducing itself to a market that already has a dominant leader.
...Moreover, you could argue that GBA SP and PSP are aimed at slightly different audiences, even though their demographics admittedly overlap to some extent.
...In regard to the DS, I think it's clear that DS isn't a direct competitor to the PSP. There are so many reasons for this. First and foremost, the DS hardware is fundamentally different to anything out there....[/QUOTE]

I'm glad you pointed these things out. It's true that the DS and PSP will have somewhat different audiences. Well, I think more precisely, the PSP will have a subset of the DS audience.
I agree that the DS and PSP will not compete on the same level. The PSP is trying to cover a lot more entertainment ground than the DS, and so is really competing against the whole of handheld systems, MP3 players, and portable movie players.

But I don't think that success has much to do with hardware, innovation, or anything that really has to do with the systems too much. What sells a system? Marketing, the occasional [i]insane blockbuster title[/i] (GTA3, Halo, Pokemon, Goldeneye, etc.), and buyer familiarity (which is part of marketing I suppose, but also has to do with word of mouth, etc.). So if Sony really knows what they're doing, and port FFVII-FFXII to PSP, as well as Devil May Cry and GTA and so forth, and then advertise the heck out of it, it [i]will sell[/i]. Maybe not to the same people as the DS, but to enough people. And if its price drops, it might start encroaching on the Gameboy's and DS's market as well.

So anyway, I think that to combat this Nintendo just needs to maintain a large, loyal audience. To do this they can put out some "guaranteed hit" titles for the DS as well, like Metroid Prime, and I'm thinking some cool new Pokemon games, maybe a Zelda game, etc. And of course, lure some of Sony's developers over. Nintendo has shown that they can deliver in terms of innovation, hardware quality, etc. Now they need to show how good their business sense is. The PSP I think will test that to some extent.

[BlueYoshi]

[COLOR=Teal]I figured that I'd post this here since we've got more of a discussion going on rather than in the PSP thread.

Anyway, according to Game Industry, who claims to have received their info from MVC magazine, both Nintendo and Sony have marked March 18th 2005 as the European release date for both systems--the week before the Easter holidays apparently, which is ?traditionally? a busy time for the games market.[/COLOR]

[QUOTE]"The PSP is expected to launch at a price point of at least 300 Euro, while the DS is expected to be given a price tag of 199 Euro - or perhaps even as little as 149 Euro - emphasising the difference in approach on the two machines."[/QUOTE]

[COLOR=Teal]By the looks of it there will be a serious engage between the two companies on the alleged release date. Personally, I think either company should aim to head for a slightly earlier release or at least for around Christmas time; it will probably give them space to build up some credit, I suppose.[/COLOR]

[Semjaza]

I don't want to post this in that PSP vs DS thread because I don't care about what does what better.

[url]http://www.nintendo.co.jp/ds/[/url]

Nintendo has redesigned the DS. It's a hell of a lot more attractive looking now and a bit smaller. Looks nice.

[url]www.gcadvanced.com[/url]

[QUOTE]Nintendo Announces Official Name and New Design for Nintendo DS; More Than 120 Games in Development Worldwide for Nintendo's New Game Platform

Today, Nintendo has formally announced the official name of their next handheld, and "third pillar". First there was the Nintendo DS, then we found out about the name the "Nitro". The it was back to the DS again. Nintendo has offically gone on record to say that the new system's name will be Nintendo DS. The name was chosen because it represents the product as "dual-screen" so natively.

"The Nintendo DS will change the future of hand-held gaming," says
Satoru Iwata, president of Nintendo Co., Ltd. "Dual screens, chat
functions, a touch screen, wireless capabilities, voice recognition --
these abilities surpass anything attempted before, and consumers will
benefit from the creativity and innovation the new features bring to
the world of video games."

The hardware announcements that came may also come to make people happy:

# Redesigned to sport a slimmer, sharper look.
# Features a thinner, black base
and an angular platinum flip-top cover
# Face buttons and shoulder
buttons are larger, and some have been reconfigured for optimum use
# Includes a new storage slot for the touch screen's stylus
# The speakers now broadcast in stereo sound with or without headphones

Nintendo also announced that the developer support list for the DS is now 100 software companies strong. There are over 120 titles currently in development with at least 20 of them coming from Nintendo themselves.

"The innovative functions make Nintendo DS a superior game device,
while the chat feature and ability to detect other DS units make it a
social device as well," says Reggie Fils-Aime, Nintendo of America's
executive vice president of sales and marketing. "We've figured out
the magic of what makes portable game play so attractive to consumers.
We've defeated nine challengers and once again we're prepared to win."

The launch date, launch price, and launch game line-up at a later date still.[/QUOTE]

[Ganon6d9]

The new DS looks pretty damn sexy, the new design reminds me of a Game and Watch, all boxy-like like that. Now there's a helluva lot more incentive to buy one when it comes out. Perhaps still not as nice looking as the PSP but hey, what are you gonna do?

[Shinmaru]

I'm glad that Nintendo stuck with the Nintendo DS name. I thought that was a pretty good name - nice and to the point. There would have been no real need to change it, I think. Nitro would have been a crappy name, anyway.

And I like the new look of the DS, too. Looks more streamlined than the version that was shown at E3. Sort of similar to the evolution of the Game Boy Advance to the GBA SP, except that nobody was suckered into buying some alternate version of the DS first :p

[Arkadyz]

[color=royalblue][font=century gothic][size=1] Very nice indeed. Much sleeker then the boxy design of the old one...It sure does let it compete with the PSP more in the looks dept.

Still kinda sad not to see a analog stick but ill live :D

Now the waiting begins... [/color][/font][/size]

[James]

[color=#707875]Cool stuff. This pretty much seems to be similar to what many were expecting, in the sense that they were going to edit minor things and make the overall system more visually appealing, while still keeping the fundamentals intact.

I particularly like the way the screens themselves look. They don't look like Game Boy screens bolted on, with those thick black borders. They look a lot more sleek now.

Very nice. [/color]

[BlueYoshi]

[color=teal]Well, it looks a lot more professional than the working design when you compare it to the SP, and still looks just as simplistic. Hopefully the casing will have an efficient adjustable lock-back function so as it won't flop around up and down whilst you're playing since the top screen is as fundamental as the bottom, so precaution won't be needed.[/color]

[Desbreko]

[color=indigo]The first thing I have to say about it: If they release an all-black version at all, they better do it at launch this time. Yes, I am still pissed off about getting stuck with a platinum GBA SP after Nintendo waited six months to release the black onyx model. I shall be even more pissed if they pull the same thing with the DS.

But anyway, about the design itself, I'm a bit apprehensive about the way it folds up. The GBA SP folds so that the two halves are flush against each other around the edge, so that it's a flat edge with practically no space in between the two halves. I liked that, but with the DS, the top half is smaller than the button, so no smooth edge, and it also looks like there's some space between the halves. (Though I could be wrong -- hard to tell from that picture.) I hope there's at least some space near the edge that's flat against the bottom half so that dust won't be able to get in between them and dirty the screens. Some dust already gets in between the halves when I have my SP folded up, and having it it happen moreso with the DS would be annoying.

Other than that, I like the look of the redesign, though I wish I could see the shoulder buttons. If they're the same as on the original GBA, I fear for my hands. For me, the R and L buttons on the GBA were the main cause of my hand aches, so hopefully the ones on the DS are more like the SNES ones. (I.e., not so dang close to the corner and can be pushed down anywhere on the button instead of only the outside edges).

I also hope the buttons -- all of them, including the control cross -- have the same clicky feeling that the SP buttons have. I love that about the SP (especially that they managed to keep the same feeling on the R and L buttons while still allowing them to be pressed down farther), as it makes it so you can really [i]feel[/i] when the buttons have been pressed. From the picture, the buttons and control cross on the DS look similar to those of the SP, so here's to hoping. ^_^[/color]

[BlueYoshi]

[quote name='Desbreko][color=indigo']Other than that, I like the look of the redesign, though I wish I could see the shoulder buttons. If they're the same as on the original GBA, I fear for my hands. For me, the R and L buttons on the GBA were the main cause of my hand aches, so hopefully the ones on the DS are more like the SNES ones. (I.e., not so dang close to the corner and can be pushed down anywhere on the button instead of only the outside edges).[/color][/quote]

[color=teal]I think it'd be safe to think that. The SP was Nintendo's response to what GBA fans wanted improved from the original design, so everything good and dear about the SP that didn't work out for the GBA should appear on the DS.

One thing I can't help thinking about is the fact that the DS is kind of a combination of the GBA and SP since it's both vertical [i]and[/i] horizontal. Due to that it should have a greater surface area, and so, both of your index fingers will have to extend a bit further over the shoulders to take the design's shape, which brings back your problem.

The SP's design was mostly vertical, thus you could reposition your fingers over the shoulder's every time they started to cramp without them interfering with the position of your thumbs on the other buttons. Hopefully, Nintendo will get the DS all right the first time around based on their theories of the SP, so there'll be no need for another recreation of it.[/color]

[natetron46]

i think that they will get it right, the other systems were really good and successful and there are only minor improvements that they had to make so i think they can nail this one right on the head.

[Desbreko]

[color=indigo]Well, the DS being wider like the original GBA shouldn't be a problem if they do the shoulder buttons right. I've never had any problem with SNES, N64, or GCN controllers in that area, and they're wider than the SP. The reason I had a problem with the GBA's shoulder buttons was mainly because they could only be pressed down properly on the outside edges of the buttons. Because of this, I had to put my fingers in an uncomfortable position in order to use them right, causing hand aches.

So as long as they make the shoulder buttons on the DS able to be pressed straight down across the whole button (like the SP's R and L buttons), and not only on the outside edges, I think it should be fine. Extending my index fingers farther over the top of the system doesn't bother me, as I usually do that anyway.[/color]

[James]

[color=#707875]In terms of dimensions, the original concept DS was pretty darn small. I don't know if you guys actually saw anyone playing with it, but its width would probably be comparable to an N64 controller or something.

The updated model is even smaller/thinner/lighter and features larger buttons. So it should be fine. Although to my knowledge, nobody has seen the shoulder buttons yet.[/color]

[BlueYoshi]

[color=teal]Another small problem about the GBA's shoulders is how they got incredibly mucky over time. It must have been something to do with the material they were made from because it never happened to the A and B buttons, and they were different. Not something I'd care much for heh, but they don't really look the part.

It's like I said before though, hopefully Nintendo will pay attention to what was good and bad about both the GBA and the SP, and will apply it to the DS.[/color]

[Semjaza]

Nintendo had a press confernce today.

Will be $150, available in the US November 21st. The DS will have Pictochat included as well as Metroid Prime: First Hunt. This is a smaller, four player wireless enabled version (more or less a demo) of Metroid Prime: Hunters.

From IGN, for those that don't know about Pictochat:

[quote]PictoChat, the software program that enables DS owners to sent text and pictures wirelessly to nearby DS systems, will be embedded in the system hardware. The DS system will spring to life out of "sleep mode" if it senses any other systems in the area, giving gamers the opportunity to chat spontaneously with each other.[/quote]

Nintendo has also talked about possible additions to the Pictochat software. Has some nice possiblities:

* Wireless Voice Mail Services
* Wireless Electronic Transmission of Voice Signals
* Online Videogame News and Hints
* Data Transfer
* Demo Downloads
* Message Boards

Full official specs from IGN:

[quote]Launch Date and MSRP: Nov. 21, 2004, in North America ($149.99), Dec. 2, 2004, in Japan (¥15,000). Q1 2005 in Europe and Australia

Size (when closed): 148.7 millimeters (5.85 inches) wide, 84.7 millimeters (3.33 inches) long, 28.9 millimeters (1.13 inches) tall

Top Screen: A backlit, 3-inch, semitransparent reflective TFT color LCD with 256 x 192 pixel resolution and .24 mm dot pitch, capable of displaying 260,000 colors

Touch Screen: Same specs as top screen, but with a transparent analog touch screen

Wireless Communication: IEEE 802.11 and Nintendo's proprietary format; wireless range is 30 to 100 feet, depending on circumstances; multiple users can play multiplayer games using just one DS Game Card

Controls: Touch screen, embedded microphone for voice recognition, A/B/X/Y face buttons, plus control pad, L/R shoulder buttons, Start and Select buttons

Input/Output: Ports for both Nintendo DS Game Cards and Game Boy Advance Game Paks, terminals for stereo headphones and microphone

Other features: Embedded PictoChat software that allows up to 16 users to chat at once; embedded real-time clock; date, time and alarm; touch-screen calibration

CPUs: One ARM9 and one ARM7

Sound: Stereo speakers providing virtual surround sound, depending on the software

Battery: Lithium ion battery delivering six to 10 hours of play on a four-hour charge, depending on use; power-saving sleep mode; AC adapter

Languages: English, Japanese, Spanish, French, German, Italian

Color: Silver and black [/quote]

Not a bad price. About what I was expecting... twice the SP price now. Makes sense. Latest news is putting the PSP price at an amount of yen equal to $300 US.

The current packaging: [url]http://media.nintendo.com/mediaFiles/6ec84695-254b-4fdf-9781-f40683ab5915.jpg[/url]

[Sword Breaker]

In my opinion, the DS is gona totally blow the PSP out of the water. First of all it is more affordable. It has the patented Duel Screen system. And it is bringing a totally new field of games to the table, where as the PSP is bringing back old games. dont get me wrong, the PSP will be a great system with great games, but it cant possibly beat the DS. The only way that it might beat it by a marketing perspective is if people think "Oh look, another Nintendo system! It is probably gona be worse then all the others, just like the GCN!" and they go and buy the PSP.

[Desbreko]

[color=#4B0082]Sword Breaker, just to let you know, we already have the [url=http://www.otakuboards.com/showthread.php?t=40830][u]PSP or Nintendo DS?[/u][/url] thread for discussion relating to both systems, so please post in there if you'd like to talk about which system you think will do better, etc. This thread is for the talking about the DS specifically.

Anyway, there's also a news article up on [url=http://www.nintendo.com/newsarticle?articleid=6a6f583d-1711-47be-b03c-d64d6bdd1d66][u]Nintendo.com[/u][/url] about this. Pretty much the same stuff that Semjaza posted, but whatever.

Myself, I'm still waiting for a list of games that are going to be released at or near the system's launch. The article on Nintendo.com says that "The complete lineup of games planned for the launch of Nintendo DS will be announced in the near future," so hopefully they'll get that out soon. Like I've said before, nothing that's been shown so far really interests me enough to buy the system at launch; I'm still hoping Nintendo has something up their sleeve.

Though even so, I probably won't get one any sooner than mid-January anyway, just because there are already too many GCN/GBA games that I want. After Christmas and my birthday are past and I've picked up my most wanted GCN/GBA games, I'll look at how much cash I've got left and what games are available for the DS before deciding whether to get one or keep waiting.[/color]