Gaming Nintendo DS

[Guest ScirosDarkblade]

[quote name='James][color=#707875']Well, up until recently, Sony has been making net losses on each PS2 unit sold. And Microsoft still makes net losses on both Xbox hardware sales and the Xbox Live service.[/color][/quote]

Well yes, they lose money on the consoles themselves, but with 63 million PS2s out there as opposed to only 20 million GBAs (and much fewer GCNs and Xboxes) it's pretty clear who sells more games (and therefore profits).

[QUOTE][color=#707875]..the market is probably large enough to support multiple hardware manufacturers. ... Nobody knows how much PSP will cost, but it will probably cost more than the DS by a significant amount... better technology does not always equate to superior sales power.[/color][/QUOTE]

Certainly the GBA sp will not be overtaken, and neither will the DS honestly, but once the PSP (which will cost from $199 to $249 from what I understand) becomes affordable, it will become a very powerful force and Nintendo will have to work against that somehow. And yes, better technology doesn't mean bigger sales, but [i]Sony[/i] does mean big sales, and everyone knows it.

I agree that innovation from Nintendo always sounds promising, but if you ask me it has failed before. Take for instance two "innovative" games: Luigi's Mansion and Pikmin. Both, compared to sales of an actual blockbuster title, had mediocre sales. And then there's the cel-shaded Zelda: the Wind Waker, which although an amazing game (and my favorite game on Gamecube), did far worse in sales than if it were done using, say, the Metroid Prime engine. Nintendo prioritizes innovation, and although that is commendable in principle, it's sometimes unwise. I just hope it works out this time.

[James]

[quote]Well yes, they lose money on the consoles themselves, but with 63 million PS2s out there as opposed to only 20 million GBAs (and much fewer GCNs and Xboxes) it's pretty clear who sells more games (and therefore profits).
[/quote]
[color=#707875]The point I was trying to illustrate was that Nintendo actually used to make a small net profit on GameCube hardware sales. Right now, at current prices, I don't know whether they're making a profit or a loss.

In regard to profit on the non-handheld consoles, that's a very big discussion. Remember that I said Nintendo was the "most profitable". That doesn't mean that they make the most revenue. It means that they make the most [i]profit [/i]on sold units.

Nintendo's third party licensing fees are higher than Sony's and Nintendo's percentage royalty system is more generous than Sony's. So even on third party releases, Nintendo makes more profit. Nintendo also does not suffer from any form of piracy (other than emulators on the 'net). Where Sony loses over $200 million each year on this basis, Nintendo does not.

So, Nintendo is by far the most profitable hardware maker out there. If you want to compare GBA to PS2, I think you'll still find that Nintendo does pretty well. Nintendo's profit margins are substantially higher in general. So on the profitability question, there's really no contest.[/color]

[quote]Certainly the GBA sp will not be overtaken, and neither will the DS honestly, but once the PSP (which will cost from $199 to $249 from what I understand) becomes affordable, it will become a very powerful force and Nintendo will have to work against that somehow. And yes, better technology doesn't mean bigger sales, but [i]Sony[/i] does mean big sales, and everyone knows it.
[/quote]
[color=#707875]Even if all of this is true, I don't think that Nintendo necessarily has to aim its crosshairs directly on PSP.

It's quite possible for PSP to exist in a market segment that does not overlap with any Nintendo products (or at least, has very little overlapping). Based on price and specifications alone, I think it's reasonable to assume that the PSP's customer base is going to be quite different to the GBA customer base in a number of ways. For example, a lot of young children won't be receiving PSPs, where they might be receiving GBAs (especially once the price is reduced).

I really have no doubt that the PSP could be a great success. But right now I don't think that the impact on Nintendo -- if any -- has been determined.[/color]

[quote]Take for instance two "innovative" games: Luigi's Mansion and Pikmin. Both, compared to sales of an actual blockbuster title, had mediocre sales. And then there's the cel-shaded Zelda: the Wind Waker, which although an amazing game (and my favorite game on Gamecube), did far worse in sales than if it were done using, say, the Metroid Prime engine. Nintendo prioritizes innovation, and although that is commendable in principle, it's sometimes unwise. I just hope it works out this time.[/quote]
[color=#707875]I don't have any sales figures in front of me, so I'll see if I can find the global sales results to confirm this.

In regard to The Wind Waker, I think you'll find that it was one of the highest selling games of its year. Saying that it would sell in greater numbers if using the Metroid Prime engine is a bit of a red herring, because nobody really knows whether that would make a difference or not. The cel-shading may actually have given Zelda an appeal to certain audiences that it never had before. It's very hard to talk about these qualitative factors.[/color]

[Guest ScirosDarkblade]

Ok I see where you were going with the profitability thing. In any case that whole discussion was irrelevant, unless the profitability can lure developers over.

[QUOTE=James][color=#707875]I don't have any sales figures in front of me, so I'll see if I can find the global sales results to confirm this.

In regard to The Wind Waker, I think you'll find that it was one of the highest selling games of its year. Saying that it would sell in greater numbers if using the Metroid Prime engine is a bit of a red herring, because nobody really knows whether that would make a difference or not. The cel-shading may actually have given Zelda an appeal to certain audiences that it never had before. It's very hard to talk about these qualitative factors.[/color][/QUOTE]

Umm, Pikmin sold around 600000 copies, Luigi's Mansion over 1200000, MP about 1150000 and Zelda about 1400000. So Zelda kicked ***, and yeah, it's hard to say what would've happened. In fact only Pikmin really didn't KILL. But in each of those cases it wasn't "innovation" that sold, and I'm dead sure of that. It was the usual Nintendo quality that did it. ...I guess the only point I can make is I think it will be quality rather than innovation that will sell the Nintendo DS, and that's what Nintendo should be primarily concerned with (I think they ARE, of course, but they keep stressing innovation and really not enough people give a damn).

[James]

[color=#707875]I assume those figures are USA/North America only.

In general, any game that hits the 500,000 mark is considered a "hit" in the industry. So if the 600,000 figure is correct for the United States, then that's pretty darn good, considering that we're talking a 500,000 threshold on a global level. From what I remember, Pikmin sold through something like 1.3 million units worldwide -- but I forget. Again, I'll have to check that out to be sure.

It's interesting that you say it wasn't innovation that sold these games; that it was quality.

But innovation plays a role in quality, as far as Nintendo is concerned.

Nintendo has never really come to the market and said "Hey everyone, this product is innovative so you should buy it". What is the innovation for? The innovation is a vehicle through which some kind of compelling content is offered.

DS -- regardless of its technology -- will need [b]good games[/b] to be successful. We can all agree on that, I'm sure. But what makes those games good? And most critically of all, what makes them different to what you'll find on other machines? If Nintendo wants you to buy the DS, they are going to want to create games that [b]require[/b] the DS's proprietary technology and design, so that you physically can't play these games anywhere else.

I think that's the critical point. It's not innovation for innovation's sake. The innovation is there to drive these qualitative elements.

In the case of, say, Ocarina of Time, the Z Targeting system was an innovation. But it wasn't there just because Nintendo wanted to add a pointless innovation -- it was an innovation that fundamentally affected qualitative aspects of the game. I think the same will be true with DS. We really no reason to believe otherwise, especially considering Nintendo's own history.

So, at this point I'm not saying that DS will be the absolute pinnacle of gaming or anything. Even members of the gaming media only know a certain amount about the machine; it hasn't been demonstrated to anyone within the media yet. However, I do think that it's important to try and see where Nintendo is coming from here. I assume that this will be very clear and apparent when E3 rolls around and people are actually able to get their hands on the new unit and its games. [/color]

[Rurouni Kenshin]

Wouldnt it be easier to just have buttons that switch the POV? Change the games... not the system... YOURE BURNING MY POCKETS NINTENDO!

[Guest ScirosDarkblade]

Heh. It seems that Mario 64 has been ported onto the DS from what I hear. Maybe so, and that means I'm buying it (I LOVE Mario 64). It also means that the DS can have some nice graphics. Not anywhere near PSP's (if the PSP developers can actually deliver, which is why I'm hoping Team NINJA does something for it--those guys can do graphics like nobody else), but still that's enough of a reason to get it in addition to a GBA SP.

Still, even if they port the coolest games ever to the DS, that says very little for the innovation Nintendo is promising with a 2-screened system. The closer we get to E3, the more excited I get about the DS, but I'm really hoping that it actually kicks ***.

Although it's still a good ways away from actual RELEASE, and that's what concerns me most. I want the DS to do well, and the more time it gives to the PSP to settle in, the worse off it'll be. Every gaming device competes with others -- kids don't have unlimited entertainment dollars.

Here's hoping it'll be here soon and it'll be sweet.

[James]

[color=#707875]Apparently Super Mario 64 was a software demonstration on the DS. At the moment I'm not sure if they are actually intending to release that game on the system.

It's similar to the Yoshi's Story demo on GBA; that demo was shown to third party developers as an indication of what they could achieve.

There has been some suggestion that Nintendo (and her third parties) could show anywhere up to 30 titles for the DS at E3.

Bear in mind that the DS is probably not a very likely candidate for direct ports -- at least, not [i]direct [/i]ports. Any ported games would have to be substantially changed, I'd imagine, considering that Nintendo and various other developers are focusing on the unique control system for the unit.

As far as PSP goes, I'm not sure exactly what the release date is; I don't think one has been mentioned. But it is my understanding that the DS and PSP are quite different machines. Right now, the question of what impact the PSP will have on the DS (if any), is a very open one. DS is a different type of machine (remember, Nintendo said it was [i]portable [/i]and not [i]handheld; [/i]that's one indication) and we may find that the market reflects that in some way.

In any case, I think E3 will be a big point for Nintendo followers this year. A very big point.[/color]

[Guest ScirosDarkblade]

Yeah DS and PSP are very different and won't compete for the same "entertainment time" that kids have, or at least that's what I figure. I don't think people will be "torn between" the two products in any case. The GBA SP will compete with the PSP far more directly than the DS will (same goes for all the stupid Palm-based or mobile phone portable game systems).

I think I'm just being a bit paranoid about the effect the PSP can have on the portable market in general. I'm a Nintendo fan, but I FEAR Sony rather than hate it. I don't hate it.

...But portable and not handheld... haha well as long as it can remain stable on my bed while I'm laying on my stomach playing it I'll be happy.

[James]

[color=#707875]I see what you're saying. I guess that lately (especially with the SK and Nintendo split announced today), I'm seeing a [i]lot [/i]of conclusion-jumping. Especially in the media.

I was having a discussion with several N-Sider editors today about IGN's reporting of that incident. It was very biased.

When Nintendo split from Rare, everyone blamed Nintendo. But as more info came out, we realized that Rare was (and is) in an utter mess.

I know that what we're talking about is different, but I think this is something that has made me extra-careful when it comes to discussing certain subjects.

In regard to PSP's effect, I think it really depends on a few points.

First and foremost, the most critical question is whether PSP is going to be another Game Gear, Lynx, or something along those lines. In other words, what's the battery life like? So far I've heard various people (including Sony's own projections) saying that the battery life would be four to eight hours -- but probably closer to four. That is not a good sign.

Believe me when I say that I want PSP to do well (afterall, I wouldn't mind owning one myself). But, Sony should be careful here.

Remember that various "technologically superior" machines came along, in an attempt to unseat Game Boy. And what happened to them? They're all dead now. I think that demonstrates that most consumers don't care about power and so on...it's about the games and the practicality more than anything else.

So, I wouldn't worry, from Nintendo's point of view. Sony has a lot more to worry about, because this is new territory for them. This is like going up against Microsoft in the OS market...you're talking about a company with a virtual monopoly.

The great thing is that GBA SP is already out there. And profitable.

If the Nintendo DS ends up failing horribly, it's not a case of Nintendo having put all of her eggs in one basket. And that puts them in a secure position (well, relatively speaking).

In any case, I can imagine a lot of really cool games would be possible for DS. A Marble Madness-esque game where you use your thumb on the touch-pad to roll around (I think that was suggested by IGN), or a golf game where you use a wave of the thumb to determine the strength of the golf shot (suggested by me, "borrowed" by IGN lol).

So yeah, there's plenty to look forward to I imagine. I could even see a really cool spin on the Mario Paint idea (where you actually write/paint using your fingers/stylus). The possibilities are really endless with this machine I think. I've heard a lot of really interesting ideas from various people, and I know that the Japanese development community is very excited. The latter is probably the most uplifting news in terms of this machine.[/color]

[Desbreko]

[color=indigo]Well, you have to remember, the PSP isn't exactly close to being released either. Last E3, all Sony had to show were specs, which tells me they're probably not a whole lot farther ahead of Nintendo and the DS. I think that Nintendo isn't going to be too far behind in releasing the DS, if at all.

Also, I kind of doubt many kids are going to be buying the PSP -- at least not with their own money. If Sony does come through with what they've said about it, I'm guessing it's going to be pretty dang expensive. Certainly more than the $100 price that the GBA/SP started at. If Nintendo keeps the DS's price down to that same $100, I think they're going to have an edge on the PSP, same as the GCN has on the PS2. It'll certainly make it affordable for me, at any rate.

The DS being capable of even N64 quality 3D graphics would be awesome, though. As James once said, "The idea of Mario 64 on a handheld is simply orgasm inducing." The only thing that concerns me about porting over N64 games, however, is the button layout. Some 3D games would be a bit hard to do without an analog stick, and the N64 simply had a lot of buttons -- more than the DS is going to have, I'm guessing. But other than having those couple reservations, I think porting some of the old N64 classics would be awesome. (Playing the original Super Smash Bros. while out and about would be just as orgasm inducing as Mario 64).

But what I'm really looking forward to seeing at E3 are the original games Nintendo is working on. I'm anxious to see how they're going to be using the dual screens, and also just specifics about the system itself, such as what it looks like and the button layout and whatnot. E3 can't come soon enough, heh.[/color]

[Semjaza]

Nintendo has already said that the DS wouldn't be getting ports, based on some things I read. I wouldn't even concern myself with it. Mario 64 is likely just a demo to show what the DS is capable of in terms of 3D, as was stated.

Good enough for me, as long as the thing doesn't display blurry textures and too much anti-aliasing like many N64 games.

[Gavin]

[font=Verdana][size=1]When I first read about the DS I have to admit that I wasn't very lured by the idea, but the more I read the more I'm impressed and the more I'm worried that Nintendo will strip me of my hard earned money with their ingenious production and addictively fun games. To me anyway, the DS project represents the quinntisential Nintendo philosophy: [b]Innovation[/b], time and again Nintendo come out with an innovative idea, system or product which causes a shockwave among it's peers and customers, [i]Z-Targetting, Anagloue controls, the Gameboy series[/i], and much more (damn my memory to hell).[/size][/font]

[font=Verdana][size=1]I do however agree with James when he said that the DS will need some very good games to help launch it as a system, I think the Gamecube may have had a rocky start (at least here in Ireland) due to the over all lack of games for the system as a whole on the launch. However in saying that the games released were of great quality and are still some of the best available on the system, I think that we can rest assured that Nintendo will provide some very good games for the DS when it comes out (a two screened proper FF RPG will please me anyway :D ).[/size][/font]

[font=Verdana][size=1]As for the SK split I think it is unfortunate since they did produce some excellent games on the Gamecube, Metroid Prime and Eternal Darkness darkness for example, but the split does seem to bare the halmarks of a similar split between Nintendo and Rare and we've not really seen anything to be sorry about.[/size][/font]

[Semjaza]

Press releases:

[quote]New Nintendo DS Attracts Worldwide Developer Interest; Major Publishers Create Games for Industry's Most Innovative Device

E3Expo 2004

REDMOND, Wash.--(BUSINESS WIRE)--May 6, 2004--The video game industry's biggest and best game developers are lining up to be the first to create innovative content for Nintendo's upcoming dual-screen hand-held innovation, code-named Nintendo DS.

"Nintendo DS is going to push hand-held technology to uncharted territories," says Yves Blehaut, senior vice president of Atari. "It's going to energize both developers and consumers with amazing new game mechanics and new game design. Once more, Nintendo leads the way with something unexpected and totally innovative."

To date, more than 100 companies worldwide have received software development kits and are planning games for Nintendo DS, which for the first time offers gamers two separate perspectives on the action. Companies include THQ, Electronic Arts, Activision, Atari, Ubisoft, Majesco, Capcom, Sega, Konami, Hudson Soft, Namco, Bandai, Koei and Square Enix, to name a few.

"The Nintendo dual screen is something that we're really excited about developing for," says Nick Earl, vice president and general manager of Electronic Arts. "It's very innovative, which is classic Nintendo."

Nintendo DS will revolutionize how people approach, perceive and enjoy video games, while including additional options that enhance the game-play experience.

"It's exciting to see so many publishers are as inspired about the Nintendo DS as we are," says George Harrison, Nintendo of America's senior vice president of marketing and corporate communications. "The creative contributions of the publishers will reinforce Nintendo's reputation as the industry's leader in innovation."

In effect, thanks to the success of the wildly popular Game Boy(R) franchise, Nintendo owns the current hand-held video game market: The Game Boy line has sold more than 168 million units worldwide during the past 15 years. And with the introduction of the revolutionary Nintendo DS, Nintendo's dominance is certain to continue in the future.

The Nintendo DS will be unveiled at the 2004 Electronic Entertainment Expo (E3), May 12 to May 14 in Los Angeles. The Nintendo DS remains on track to launch before the end of the year.[/quote]

[Guest ScirosDarkblade]

Awesome. I really can't wait to see what it ends up really being. I want handheld 3-d Zelda, Mario, etc. games real bad. Seeing that so many developers are eager to deveolop games for the DS is great, because I don't want the PSP to take any of Nintendo's market away.

Question: will the DS have wireless link capability? I forget whether that has been mentioned or not. Anyway, if it will be wireless link capable, then a Smash Bros. game would sell like crazy. I'd love to play a Smash Bros. game vs. my brother in the car on family trips out of town. If Nintendo released a SSB game for the DS, it'd sell like crazy.

[Semjaza]

[url]http://www.usatoday.com/life/lifestyle/2004-05-11-nintendo-ds_x.htm[/url]

This article confirms a lot of things... it also shows a first possible screen of the system. I'm not sure if it's the real deal or just a concept, but there you go.

Nintendo's conference is later today, so we'll know for sure rather soon.

[quote]The DS will sell alongside today's Game Boy Advance, not replace it, according to the company. Nintendo has not announced a release date or price, though analysts predict it may sell in the $150 range.

One of the two 3-inch screens is touch-sensitive and works with a stylus ? like Palms and Pocket PCs ? to control the action in some games. In one demo, players guide a toddler-age Mario as he falls from the sky by drawing clouds. Other games give multiple views of the action.

The DS also has Bluetooth wireless communication to connect with other units within range for cordless competition. DS has separate slots for current Game Boy Advance cartridges and new, smaller DS game cards.[/quote]

[Guest ScirosDarkblade]

Hoooo ninja! Is that a Mario Kart screenshot I see? Of a Yoshi-shaped track?

The more I see the better it all sounds! Now I just want to know what sort of games we'll be looking at when it comes time for the system launch.

The PSP is much meaner when it comes to hardware, but yeah it's really friggin expensive and I'm pretty sure it'll take it a while to even come close to matching the DS's game library for quality (well that's just me; I'm not the biggest PS2 fan).

[Semjaza]

That's how the system looks. They've just debuted it and are talking about the games.

The USAToday article was wrong in one spot: the DS uses wi-fi, not Bluetooth. Why does this matter? Apparently you can link up to 16 players within 100 feet of eachother wirelessly. Freaking awesome.

Launches in Japan and America this year.

Software screens:

[url]http://www.nintendo.com/e3_2004/ds/ds_software.jsp[/url]

The graphics on this thing are certainly better than I expected.

Lots more screens thanks to Something Awful [u][url="http://www.sofuckingemo.co.uk/ds/"]here[/url][/u]

Random 1st party game shots thanks to N-Sider: [url]http://www.n-sider.com/newsview.php?type=day&date=2004-05-11#181[/url]

From Gamespot:

[quote]Nintendo unveiled its mysterious dual-screen portable system today during its E3 press conference. Prior to the event we had the chance to get some quality time with the hardware to see what it's all about.

While the units we tried were obviously playable, Nintendo reps noted that the design wasn't quite final as yet and would likely still undergo a few cosmetic tweaks--perhaps even a name change--before the device ships this fall.

The rectangular system is slightly larger than a standard PDA, and features a clamshell design similar to the GBA SP and the old school Game-in-Watch systems from back in the day. The system uses two backlit screens that are each roughly the size of the GBA screen. The DS features a total of six buttons, in a configuration reminiscent of the Super Nintendo Entertainment System controller. You've got buttons A, B, X, and Y on the face as well as left and right shoulder buttons. The twist to the system's control inputs is the lower screen's functionality as a touch screen. The screen will respond to input from the included stylus, or your finger instead.

The system will be backwards compatible with the Game Boy Advance (and, therefore, with other, earlier Game Boy models), with GBA cartridges fitting in a slot in the front of the system and the DS cartridges fitting in the back. The DS cartridges will be noticeably smaller than the GBA carts, and while we weren't able to see one, they were described as being roughly the same size as a standard SD media card used for devices such as Pocket PCs and digital cameras. The system will use a rechargeable battery that's estimated to last roughly 10 hours. In addition, the system includes a few extra perks such as a built-in headphone jack and a microphone input, which suggests that voice support of some kind will be in some games. The most impressive extra built into the system is its wireless connectivity, which is composed of Nintendo's own wireless technology as well as standard WiFi. Of note, it was hard to get a sense for how heavy the system was, as the units were firmly bolted into their respective kiosks and we'd left our industrial strength bolt cutters at home.

As far as the system's graphical muscle goes, there was plenty of evidence of` the DS' versatility. In addition to a selection of first- and third-party offerings, there was also an assortment of eight technology demos to show off the hardware's potential. The most notable demo starred Sega's own Sonic the Hedgehog. The demo proper was displayed in the top DS screen and featured Sonic running through a familiar island setting. You were able to control Sonic's movements by using the stylus on the lower touch screen. Tapping the screen made Sonic jump while sliding the stylus across the power meter style image on the lower screen let you build up Sonic's speed. The more you slide the stylus, the faster an onscreen meter built up. Every time the meter filled, Sonic's speed would bump up to a higher level. Another component of the demo let you manipulate the camera on Sonic by switching between different angles on the fly by tapping icons on the touchscreen. The graphics in the demo looked good and ran at a smooth clip. Texture detail and polygon count were respectable but didn't quite match the quality of console hardware. The effects used as Sonic's speed leveled up were pretty slick and made use of a wide variety of color and particle effects.

Balloon Trip is a demo starring Mario's lovable baby incarnation from Yoshi's Island and finds you guiding him to safety as he falls to the ground. At the start of the demo Baby Mario is dropped by a stork and starts a freefall to the ground. You'll use the stylus to create cloud trails that will gently guide his descent to the ground and steer him to collect coins and avoid enemies that will kidnap him and end the demo. You'll be able to take out certain enemies by quickly drawing a circle around them, trapping them in bubbles that Baby Mario will collect along with coins. The demo forces you to make use of both screens as Baby Mario is falling in the upper screen while you draw his path in the lower one. The trick is to plan ahead and go about arranging the clouds so that they reach the baby and line him up for the next set you send his way. The ultimate goal of the demo is to get the little guy to the ground where Yoshi awaits to ferry him off to safety. The graphics in the game mimic the Yoshi's Island style of graphics with some extra flourishes such as the clouds that help keep it looking fresh.

The Carving demo is a cool little bit of tech showing off the sensitivity of the touch screen and the graphics speed of the unit. Basically the demo lets you choose from one of four materials: watermelon, wood, chrome, and Mario clay. Once your material is selected and on the screen, you'll be able to run your stylus over it and carve a design much like working on a pottery wheel. After you've finished you can choose to destroy your creation or display it. You'll be able to use the stylus on the screen to manipulate your work of art by turning it any way you like. The graphics in the demo weren't exactly mind boggling, although the chrome looked quite sharp. The eye-catching aspect of the presentation is how the stylus interacts with and affects the graphics.

The Mario Face demo was just that, a demo that starred both Mario and Wario's mug in the lower screen. The demo was much like the tech demo in Mario 64 that let you manipulate Mario's face. You'll use the stylus to grab the characters' faces and stretch it in a number of ways. Whose face you'll be tugging at is determined by which of the pair's 2D versions jumps down the warp pipe in a rolling guide that plays out on the upper screen. In it the two characters are running around underneath blocks that correspond to the four buttons on the lower screen you can select with the touch pad and offer brief explanations of what they do. Basically the buttons affect what your manipulation of the face does. One lets you stretch various parts of the face anyway you like and sends whatever piece you had hold of ricocheting back to normal once you lift the stylus. The second button forces the face to hold whatever ungodly stretched form you drag it in even if you remove the stylus and "let go". The third lets you rotate the image anyway you want with the stylus. The fourth lets you switch from normal or toon shaded graphics. Finally the last button lets you choose to play with either Mario or Wario's face by calling down the appropriate guinea pig from up top.

The Table Hockey demo was a simple version of table hockey that you played with the stylus. The top screen displayed the area around your opponent's goal while the lower touch screen displayed yours and let you control your paddle with the stylus. The game had a slightly space age feel to it as your goal and that of your opponent featured energy shields that had to be hit with the puck once in order to give you a clear shot. The demo featured sparse graphics that pretty much recreated the basic look of an air hockey table. However the demo's big draw was naturally its simple but addictive gameplay. Once you get the handle of using the stylus it's possible to pull off some fancy blocks that give the puck some spin, which is cool.

The special effects demo offered three modes of effects, selected by hitting one of three icons on the lower touch screen, which displayed various special effects in the upper screen on the fly based on your actions. The first option let you mess around with an assortment of cubes that displayed erratic light patterns as you jostled them every which way. The second option let you push around circles that would yield different patterns of effects. The third option let you select one special effect by tapping any circle in a grid that took up much of the lower screen and waving around your stylus, repeating the effect. The effects included everything from clouds and fireworks to spinning batons.

The Pikachu demo offered a virtual Pikachu to love or abuse with your stylus. The hopelessly peppy critter alternated between the two screens. Obviously you're only able to interact with him when he's on the lower screen. In addition to following his whims, onscreen text will let you know when he wants some attention, you can also call up a menu that lets you play with him in a variety of ways using musical instruments,such as a xylophone, or even drawing (well tracing really) over him with the stylus. The graphics in the demo surpassed their nearest cousin, the Pikachu in Nintendo 64's Hey you Pikachu!, but weren't quite as crisp as the Pikachu in the GameCube's Pokemon Channel.

The last demo we tried, the submarine demo, was said to be Miyamoto's favorite. The simple game, featuring a submarine, took place on the upper screen while the sub's controls appeared on the bottom. The goal of the demo is to get your submarine across a stretch of ocean. The trip will force you to raise and submerge your sub as well as deal with obstacles such as rocks and enemy ships that block your way. The controls consist of dials that you'll manipulate with the stylus. You'll be able to adjust the craft's depth, pitch, and speed on the fly and fire off torpedoes as the need arises. The mechanics, while simple, took some getting used to and offered a fun "lunar lander" style challenge as you try to beat the clock. The graphics in the game were simple but clean, and offered some nice effects for water bubbles and the sub as you go through the demo.

All told, the Nintendo DS is an interesting piece of hardware that's the most versatile piece of hardware the company has ever put out. The design is unusual--we're a little iffy on the stylus considering how easy it is to lose those things, and the amount of features crammed into it is certainly impressive. Compatibility with the GBA is a good thing and the tech behind the hardware is certainly sound. The tech demos we saw made a case for why the DS is a platform that may offer some truly unique experience. However, that's just part of the story. In addition to the demos, there were several games on display for the system that we checked out, as well. Namco's Pac-Pix and Pac'n Roll, Konami's Yu-Gi-Oh!: Nightmare Troubador, Bandai's Mobile Suite Gundam Seed, Square Enix's Egg Monster Hero, Hudson's Bomberman, and Nintendo's own DS Picto Chat, WarioWare Inc. DS, Super Mario 64 4x4, and Metroid Prime Hunters all showed off some unique and interesting ways to use Nintendo's new hardware. The Nintendo DS is currently slated to ship this fall. Look for more on the system from the E3 show floor and in the coming months. [/quote]

[James]

[color=#707875]All I can say is that I'm majorly impressed with what I've seen of DS so far. The hardware unit is a great piece of technology, with some awesome features. "Versatility" is definitely the key word here.

In terms of the games...I don't know how anyone could be disappointed with the initial first party lineup that we've seen. You've got Animal Crossing DS, Mario Kart DS, Super Mario 64 x 4 and more; the list goes on.

Even PictoChat looks pretty cool in terms of being a good demonstration of what the machine can do. It will be amazing to see developers put the wireless communication to some good use, especially in multiplayer games.

If there any surprises for me, they'd be the simple fact that DS is already sporting such an abundance of big name software. There were concerns about how Nintendo would distribute its development resources, to cope with the introduction of this all-new platform. But based on what we've seen, even in simple numerical terms, things are looking good. And the third party support is insane; already significantly higher than PSP.

I've already done a lot of DS-related browsing and I've spoken to a couple of my N-S colleagues about it. So far, everyone seems to be quite impressed with things. The demonstration at the conference was definitely impressive in and of itself; it'll be good to start getting proper impressions going soon.

All of these announcements give me the distinct impression that those who doubted Iwata early on may soon be eating their collective hats. Remember when IGN used the headline "Iwata Reiterates Baffling Philosophy"? That headline was obviously biased. I think now, his philosophy for Nintendo may not be quite so baffling.[/color]

[Guest ScirosDarkblade]

Basically, if Super Mario 64 x 4 has the same file select music as the original Super Mario 64, I'm buying the DS as soon as that game hits shelves. Really. That file select music brings back such memories...

[James]

[color=#707875]I know exactly what you mean, Sciros. Super Mario 64 is probably one of my most memorable games. Seeing Mario in 3D for the first time was pretty incredible, afterall. ~_^

It looks like Mario 64 x 4 is actually a four player version of the original. The screens so far look amazing; it seems as though the visuals have actually been updated from the original version of the game, too, which is pretty cool.

I remember talking to Alex just yesterday about how much I'd love to see an updated Super Mario 64...[/color]

[Guest ScirosDarkblade]

Poops! I just read IGN's article on Metroid Prime: Hunters, and it seems that you control Samus's movement with the control pad and aiming/shooting/belching with the stylus. Well, I'm left handed. I use my wacom tablet with my left hand. So this is going to be an awkward change. Very stupid learning curve. Oh well, I'll get used to it; maybe they'll make the buttons on the right function as a control pad as well (or as aiming/lock-on controls). Something redundant for us left-handed folk.

[Semjaza]

[url]http://gameboy.ign.com/articles/514/514688p3.html[/url]

Here's a transcript of the roundtable with Tazuka and Miyamoto about the DS. I found one thing in particular interesting.

[QUOTE]Question: With the DS' chat and instant message capabilities, are you competing with mobile phones? What direction are you going with this?

Miyamoto: I think there are two ways of looking at it. Our target user is everyone: people age 5 to 95. And if you look at that wide user base, you have children who see their parents with PDAs and such. So there's a lot of appeal for kids to use the DS and the stylus for its chat and IMing. And it's possible for someone with a wireless router in their home to potentially link up the Nintendo DS to that router, the computer and the internet and then to potentially link up to other instant messenging programs. I don't know how Microsoft will see this or if anyone will put anything out for this, or we may put something out independent as well. But maybe since Microsoft isn't making any cellphones maybe we'll be fine. (laughs).[/QUOTE]

There had been a bunch of developer quotes about how the DS could "link people all around the world" and I never quite understood it. Mostly because while the wireless capabilites are great, they apparently don't go beyond 30 to 100 feet (30 being a modest estimate and 100 probably being in only the best conditions).

So I thought this quote was particularly interesting. I'm really interested in seeing what they could do with that.

Another interview about the DS is here: [url]http://gameboy.ign.com/articles/514/514177p1.html[/url]

They further talk about the idea of one cart multiplayer games.

[quote]IGN: Is there any aspect of the Nintendo DS abilities that you just didn't get around to showing off in the E3 demos that you would have liked to have shown?

Hideki Konno: Two of them. Wireless capabilities is extremely promising, and we'll be able to do a lot more features with it in the future than what you've seen here. I like the idea that someone with a DS can wander into an area with other DS system and automatically send over a copy of a game to that system for multiplayer. The voice recognition is another feature that we didn't have time to expand on and show off at E3.[/quote]

To me, this is potentially a huge step in videogaming. If enough people buy the DS there could literally be an entire network of people sharing games, talking and playing against eachother. Sounds great.

[BlueGender]

[COLOR=Navy][SIZE=1]When I saw Nintendo's DS E3 presentation it just wowed me I was expecting the DS to be 2nd to my anticipation of the PSP but after E3 DS is all I can think about. The new Super Mario Brothers and Animal Crossing DS are what did it for me. Animal Crossing DS excited me so much because it appeared to have online features and thats the only thing that the Gamecube version needs to be perfect in my opinion.

From the looks of it the DS will be heavily muliplayer centered and I have a feeling that its going to revolutionalise multiplayer. The only thing that I didnt like was the size, I was kind of hoping it to be just as portable as the GBA's but hey im not complaining if the screens were any smaller it would take away from gameplay. I have a feeling Nintendo's going to slaughter Sony with there better price point,battery life, and there backward combatability, they already have what over 500 titles available and im guessing Sony is going to launch with about 10-20 at most. Im still picking up both and its going to be a great year for on the go gaming.[/SIZE][/COLOR]

[BlueYoshi]

[COLOR=Teal]Seems interesting so far judging by its specifics. It's not as hyped as I would have imagined it to be though, heh.

The way Nintendo are going with the DS they'll soon may able to hold considerable prosperity in the handheld market, along with Sony's release of the highly anticipated PSP, which both seem to be on the same level.

Some of the major prospects of the DS come from the SP though, you know, keep the good throw away the bad, but there are many other characteristics that make the SP completely inferior to it. Twin screens with much more display capacity support this, for example. Optimistically, I'm sure whatever Sony has to offer, Nintendo will blindly counter. I'd like to think that both ways though, not to produce a one-sided argument.

To say the least, neither handheld system shine in the light of originality. They're both simply franchising existing titles (MP: Hunters, MGS Acid) from other consoles, which I don't find considerably reputable. Because, let's face it, every prequel and sequel released has the ability to introduce new types of game play, some do respectively, however, the concept and premise will always remain.

Interesting line up overall, very different to what the GBA had planned at first--but maybe that's just because MP: Hunters is there, lol.[/COLOR] :p

[James]

[color=#707875]I don't think that the DS and PSP are really comparable, as I've mentioned before. Moreover, I wouldn't say that the DS is actually a response to the PSP. The DS is more a response to the stagnation of the industry than anything else (not to mention that there are some great flow-on effects from having strong developer support on the DS).

There really hasn't been anything as original as the DS on the video game scene for quite a long time (save for the Virtual Boy, which was a complete disaster).

In regard to software originality, there are two key points to bear in mind.

Firstly, finalized games weren't being shown at E3. As Miyamoto himself said, the demos were all deliberately kept very short. More importantly still, you've mentioned MP: Hunters (and there [i]are [/i]plenty of franchise titles on the machine), but the vast majority of game demos at E3 were totally original pieces (like the Submarine demo). I don't know how many of these will be turned into games, but the same can probably be said for the franchise demos also.

The second key thing to remember is that while MP: Hunters might be a "franchise title", the core gameplay is still fundamentally changed as a result of the hardware that it is running on, whereas MGS Acid is a slightly different situation. The PSP essentially just replicates the PS2's control system, whereas the DS attempts to provide something pretty new and unseen. This is why all of the demos at the show actually relied on both screens, as well as touch-screen compatibility.

I think that this will become much clearer when you have the unit in your hands and when you actually play it and interact with it. It's quite a different piece of hardware -- and it's very different to the PSP, on just about all fronts.

It's also important to note that we've seen no evidence of ports moving to the DS. Nintendo said, very directly, that if developers simply want to make ports, they can put that type of game on the GBA SP. Games that are produced for DS are supposed to actually make use of the DS's proprietary features, whether we're talking about the twin screens, touch sensitivity or Wi-Fi.

So, those are a few critical distinctions. But again, I think they will become a lot clearer when the final unit is released.[/color]