Anime Can you really call it anime when...

[Solo Tremaine]

[quote name='EVA Unit 100']So anime means "Japanese animation". Anything done in America, regardless of quality and style, isn't anime. And that's fine.[/quote][COLOR=#503F86]Don't forget that not all 'American' animations are drawn in America- many are drawn in Korea (Invader ZIM and Futurama, for example). Does that make them Korean animations? No, because they're licensed, produced and comissioned by an American company with American writers for an American audience. In the credits to many US animations I've seen loads of Japanese names, even in some Disney films.

If something was animated entirely by Japanese artists, would that be anime? The country it's animated in might not be Japan, but if there's a whole Japanese team working on it, it's about as near as dammit as you can get. It's not as clear-cut as you might think.[/COLOR]

[Dagger]

[QUOTE=Solo Tremaine][COLOR=#503F86]Don't forget that not all 'American' animations are drawn in America- many are drawn in Korea (Invader ZIM and Futurama, for example). Does that make them Korean animations? No, because they're licensed, produced and comissioned by an American company with American writers for an American audience. In the credits to many US animations I've seen loads of Japanese names, even in some Disney films.

If something was animated entirely by Japanese artists, would that be anime? The country it's animated in might not be Japan, but if there's a whole Japanese team working on it, it's about as near as dammit as you can get. It's not as clear-cut as you might think.[/COLOR][/QUOTE]

Good point. Moreover, not all anime is produced solely in Japan... plenty of series are at least partially outsourced. If you look at the credits of any random ongoing show, chances are you'll see a whole slew of Korean names. And in recent years, a lot of really great anime (including Kino's Journey, Kaleido Star and Hi no Tori) have been co-produced by American companies.

~Dagger~

[Darktigerpack17]

I think that anime has a broad range of art.Look at the difference in Akira compared to Gundam Seed? If it has that Japanese feel to it i would'nt care who made it. :rolleyes:

[Queen Asuka]

[quote name='Darktigerpack17']I think that anime has a broad range of art.Look at the difference in Akira compared to Gundam Seed? If it has that Japanese feel to it i would'nt care who made it. :rolleyes:[/quote]

[color=hotpink][size=1]Your comment struck my curiosity, so I have a question for you. What is your view on all the new cartoons that have been coming out lately that are going for that "anime" look and feel? The three main ones that I can think of off the top of my head are Teen Titans, Totally Spies, and the Winx Club. Obviously they aren't Japanese, but they are definately aiming to have the same vibe. What do you think about them?

Also, what IS it with those shows that MAKES them so different? I can't put my finger on it, but you can tell that they are so fake. It's like looking at an apple sitting beside a plastic apple. Basically they LOOK the same, but obviously there IS a difference, however subtle it is.[/color][/size]

[Solo Tremaine]

[quote name='Queen Asuka][color=hotpink][size=1]Also, what IS it with those shows that MAKES them so different? I can't put my finger on it, but you can tell that they are so fake. It's like looking at an apple sitting beside a plastic apple. Basically they LOOK the same, but obviously there IS a difference, however subtle it is.[/size'][/color][/quote][color=#503f86]I've noticed this too, and I think it's probably down to what Manic said earlier:[/color]

[quote name='Manic']Also, Japanese animation uses less frames-per-second than Western animation. [/quote][color=#503f86]Whether the expressions are exactly the same or not, the amount of frames per second will make them appear slightly different. I guess the way animes like Teen Titans try to combat this is by having the expression changes very quick in the same way they do in most traditional anime. But even then, it won't look quite the same because the execution of the timing isn't proportionally right.

Another reason might be down to the direction of the programme itself- where something that takes the most noticeable elements of anime still might not be anime, the said elements might be slightly out of context with the animation itself. It's almost like cutting out Uma Therman's head form a magazine picture and trying to stick it on another picture of Uma Therman. Whilst they're both essentially the same, they don't quite fit the jigsaw. It's an odd subtlety to try and define, but I know what you mean.

That's my take on it, heh.[/color]

[Gin]

One thing that I haven't seen any buddy mention yet that makes anime different from other cartoons is that animes are really the only shows I can think of that actually have a plot/story. Er? I mean like how many non-animes have you seen that have a plot to them ?I mean sure there?s a plot to each episode but they don?t have a beginning and an end? like if you?re first Naruto episode you see is episode 88 then you?ll be a bit confused but if you say the first Simpsons episode you saw was one from whatever season they?re on now you wouldn?t be to confused because it has no story line? I can?t think of one non-anime show that has a plot or any anime that doesn?t have a plot? does what I?m saying make since?:sweat:

[Dagger]

That's a huge generalization. There are plenty of popular anime (such as Case Closed and Azumanga Daioh) which lack an over-arching plot. Additionally, many lengthy series basically "reset" with each new season, so that while the show appears to make progress it never actually gets anywhere. Several Rumiko Takahashi anime are known for having rather circular storylines, although in the past she has devised plots with a definite beginning, middle and end (Maison Ikkoku comes to mind).

I'll let other people provide examples of non-episodic American series, since my experience with American animation is less than extensive.

~Dagger~

[Angel_Kiss]

Anime is nothing more than animation but by us in other countries we call the style of drawing in the animation 'anime'.Anime can be done by more than just japanese although in my opinion if its done by the japanese (the creaters of anime) I'd like it better because its made by the orginal creators of anime. Although some people that are not japanese make and draw anime, that doesnt mean thier anime creation isnt worse than the japanese.Actually, thiers could be better.Anyway, in my opinion, anime is anime no matter who draws it or makes it.

[xYakux]

i don't think the artist has to be japanese, i think it's just a stereotype that has been adopted because the style anime is usually drawn with came from Japan, personally if the anime isn't too painful to watch(someone making a fool of themselves), is funny and drawn very well i'd watch it, it doesn't matter who made it.

[Guest ScirosDarkblade]

[QUOTE=Dagger IX1]
I'll let other people provide examples of non-episodic American series, since my experience with American animation is less than extensive.

~Dagger~[/QUOTE]

I'll provide an ironic example--Spiderman. The show was good while it was episodic. Once it got into the habit of 14 to 18-episode-long arcs it because horrendous and a nightmare to follow and watch. Nevertheless, it was non-episodic and quite popular.

The same thing is true of many X-Men cartoon plots. A number of them were quite long.

[Manic Webb]

[quote name='junkobakaiba']I can’t think of one non-anime show that has a plot[/quote]
[i]Gargoyles[/i]. You miss one episode of that show, you'll be completely lost for the rest of the series.
[quote]or any anime that doesn’t have a plot…[/QUOTE]
[i]Tokyo Pig[/i]. That show had no plot, whatsoever.

I really hate the "anime has plot" comparisons, because people usually compare American comedies (ie. The Simpsons) to Japanese action/dramas. Comedies almost [i]never[/i] have a continuous story. The episodes of [i]Urusei Yatsura[/i] were so interchangable, you could watch the entire series [u]backward[/u]. I could use that kind of apple-to-orange logic to say the exact opposite...

"American shows have better plots than Japanese anime. I mean, [i]Batman: The Animated Series[/i] had a much better story than [i]Hello Kitty[/i]."

See how much sense that kind of comparison makes?

Moving right along...

There are a few things that ride the line between anime and not-anime. Look at the original [i]Transformers[/i]. It's considered anime by many fans. But it was written, produced, originally voiced, and marketed in America. The bulk-work animation was just done in Japan.
Then there's Peter Cheung (Aeon Flux, Reign), whom no one can decide whether he creates anime or Western animation.

What makes these shows on the wall, while shows like [i]Totally Spies[/i] simply thwack their heads against it?

[EVA Unit 100]

Although I can't think of many truely non-episodic American cartoons, I can think of tons that have episodes that can stand alone, but are strongly linked by a long story arc. Here are some (not counting the ones others have said):

Justice League S2/S3
Teen Titans (although that's broken up into story arcs every season/2 seasons)
Spawn: TAS
Invasion America
Futurama (yes, it's a comedy, but it is linked together by longer plotlines i.e. the war against the Brain Scum, Leela's parents, Fry and Leela's growing romance)
Samurai Jack (although that's more of a going-in-circles Rumiko-type cartoon)
MEGAS XLR (although it's long-lasting plot is about as loose as loose can get without untying)

[Guest Senshi_Onigiri]

o! i have a question...what if a non-japanese person were to go to japan and make their anime there? would the people accept it seince it starts off in japanese dialect but by a nonjapanese person? this boogles me...(o.O)

[Havokio]

[COLOR=Indigo]That would more than likely happen, but no one (to the best of my knowledge) has tried it.

I like mostly ANYTHING animated. I happen to be a HUGE fan of Marvel and DC. Those are basically anime with different names. (Carrtoon/Anime - Comic/Manga)

As long as the storyline is good, and the art is ok, I'll (as should everyone) give it a go.

Japanese Anime happens to be more popular and widespread, as well as more mainstream than Anime of any other sort.[/COLOR]

[Kamuro]

I guess if you thought of it technically then its not really anime, and the styles are a bit different, but some people who actually aren't japanese are influenced by animes that had already been made, so the cartoons are similar, and just as good

[JenniKate]

For some reason - and I have no idea what it is - the drawing styles used in 'anime' are different to the styles used in other 'animation'.

Regardless of who and where it was drawn you can usually tell what someone will these days class as 'anime' by looking at the visual aspect.

As anime becomes more wide spread (and I don't particularly agree that is more popular that other cartoons - I feel they are still more widely accessible throughout the world) as it spreads to more people the distinction of having to call something 'anime' vs 'cartoon' will fade away.

Although given that 'anime' fans go to conventions and dress up and you don't see 'cartoon' fans doing this maybe there will always be that group who define the difference between the styles of animation.

[EVA Unit 100]

[quote name='JenniKate']Regardless of who and where it was drawn you can usually tell what someone will these days class as 'anime' by looking at the visual aspect.[/quote]

The problem with this statement is that most animes look hardly anything like each other. Even if anime was limited to Astro Boy, Pokemon, Cowboy Bebop, and Spirited Away, you could barely see any similarities between them.

[JT Darkfire]

While this is true,most animes do have subtle similarities that can be noticed if one looks hard enough.For instance, in a large amount of animes you often see an anger mark (you know what I mean), the sweatdrop,the sleep bubble,etc. Also,animes tend to have theme similarities, if not similar plot form if you look hard enough. The good vs evil/ victory at whatever cost is a theme that is commonly used in anime. Compare Ruruouni Kenshin and Trigun. Despite setting and style,the plots and themes of these two works are very similar. Don't get me wrong; I love anime. But the different series' tend to be recycled from other popular animes.

If you look hard enough, you can tell if something is anime. It doesn't have to be written by the Japanese, it just has to have that classic anime feeling.

[Kamuro]

I agree in this case, Rurouni Kenshin and Trigun are very similar, but you have to take in account a lot of the other animes that are very very different. There is similarities in anime, because writers are inspired but animes already made, ideas are set in place and an anime lacking certain things just isn't worth watching, and although shows like Rurouni Kenshin and Trigun are similar, a lot of people watch them for the characters, story development, etc, that has nothing to do with the main quest of the story

for example, people hear the story of Rurouni Kenshin "A medievil japanese swordman, quick as lightning and just as deadly...who refuses to kill any longer", people say, thats not cool, c'mon, but [U]lots[/U] of people still watch the show

[JT Darkfire]

True, but you've got to take into consideration that the character development for a lot of animes always ends up with a nearly stereotypical cast of characters. If you take that into consideration, thenyou'll see what I mean.

[EVA Unit 100]

[quote name='JT Darkfire']But the different series' tend to be recycled from other popular animes.[/quote]

[QUOTE=Cartoon Network's Summer Schedule for Sunday Nights]
7:00: The Life and Times of Junifer Lee
7:30: Electric Girl
8:00: Totally Spies
8:30: Atomic Betty[/QUOTE]

And you're telling me American shows don't recycle each other?

And to show you the variety in art styles of anime, does this...

[IMG]http://www.sonicteam.com/atom/images/main.jpg[/IMG]

Look like the same style as this...

[IMG]http://www.tuttomanga.com/marcoalbiero/18-animeemanga/POKEMON/POKEMON.jpg[/IMG]

Or this...

[IMG]http://images.amazon.com/images/P/B00005QCW4.01.LZZZZZZZ.jpg[/IMG]

Or this?

[IMG]http://www.solomonia.com/images/august03/spiritedaway.jpg[/IMG]

OK, there are some similarites, but do they have much more similarity than the similarity between this...

[IMG]http://www.chuckjones.com/catalog/images/LT-1DVD.jpg[/IMG]

This...

[IMG]http://rosella.apana.org.au/~tjy/renstimp.gif[/IMG]

This...

[IMG]http://www.cnn.com/interactive/entertainment/0302/gallery.simpsons.characters/gallery.simpsons.family.jpg[/IMG]

And this?

[IMG]http://www.vegalleries.com/hbopc/samauri2.jpg[/IMG]

And now for some extra fun, let us compare this...

[IMG]http://www.ex.org/articles/2002/images/2002.01.13-rev_anime-us-the_big_o-vol_4-cover.jpg[/IMG]

And this.

[IMG]http://www.batman-superman.com/batman/img/newabrlogo.gif[/IMG]

Now, honestly, if this was the first time you ever saw the 2 above shows, could you even tell which one was anime and which one wasn't (and the book Batman: Child of Dreams cancels out the "Batman must be an American thing" logic)?

[r2vq]

I actually did a comparitive essay on the differences between Japanese animation and American animation. Most Anime "otaku" think they know what they are, but most are [b]very[/b] mistaken. After researching on the web, I found that even professional looking websites rely on stereotypes and misconceptions.

The Essay can be summarized as follows: (Underlined objects are very important)
1. [u]Japanese Animation has less funding than American.[/u]
--> Especially today, the average animator in Japan makes less money than the average Japanese worker his/her age.
--> To overcome the problems created by this, Japanese Animators use a technique that makes their work less fluid than American Animation. Most Japanese Animators use a technique invented by Osamu Tezuka called "[u]limited animation[/u]". This is why Japanese Animation is famous for its "action poses".

2. Japanese Animation has a [u]wider variety[/u] of genres.
--> The misconception is that Japanese Animation always has a great storyline that American Animation could never compare to. Fans of Japanese Animation try to prove this by using American Comedies or Satires, because that is the most available American Animation. Few of these fans like to point out American Cartoons based on Comic Books, like Spawn, Gargoyles, and Spiderman. They also don't like to point out Japanese shows that [b]don't[/b] have great, long, story lines like Excel Saga, Samurai Champloo, Cowboy Bebop, One Piece, Ranma½ and Dragonball Z.
--> The wide variety of genres in Japanese Animation is due mostly to the audience it captures. In Japan, Animation and Manga are a valid source of [u]entertainment for every age group, and gender.[/u] Unfortunately due to censorship laws over fifty years old, American Animation is widely viewed as children's material, mainly for boys.

3. As for style of drawing, Japanese style drawings are [u]inspired by American style[/u].
--> The misconception is that Japanese styled drawings are unique and can never be copied. If you look at the [b]original[/b] Mangaka, Osamu Tezuka, the God of Anime, you will notice that early Anime characters look a lot like early Disney characters, and early American comic strip "funnies" characters. Japanese style was spawned from American style, that's where the big eyes came from.
--> There has also been a trend recently of American animators being inspired by Japanese style. I had something here about cross-pollenization with Totally Spies, Martin Mysteries, Powerpuff Girls, and even Dexter's Lab as examples.

+===+
Anyway. Sorry about the long drawn out post. I just saw this thread, thought it fit with it, and that some people would be interested. Maybe one day I'll post the actual essay.

-ArV

[Kamuro]

don't apologize for the post r2vq, its interesting learning about misconceptions created and spread around which are almost never true, and I'm not sure about the rest of you, but I'd rather be a knowledgable about actual japanese animation then just conform with people who think they know what it is, and just because other people believe it to be true, doesn't make it so

[r2vq]

Thanks x kakashi x. Though, I'd really appreciate criticism on the outline. ^^ Any and all is welcome.

I've also been wondering... how many people consider The Animatrix as Anime? Specifically The Final Flight of the Osiris, and Matriculated.
I ask this because both were directed by Americans in the United States. FFotO was directed by Andy Jones (Final Fantasy: The Sprits Within), and Matriculated was directed by Peter Cheung (MTV's Aeon Flux).

-ArV

[Kamuro]

I'm not a big fan of the Animatrix, I'm not sure if thats the eason I don't like it, but I wasn't a big fan of the art work as well as the randomness of the show, maybe it is the american influence that takes away from the show, I'm not sure