Anime 2-d + 3-d = ?

[Dagger]

Nowadays, many shows are animated digitally. If done successfully, this makes them look fresh, modern, and very attractive. However, a growing number of studios (such as GONZO and Bones) are also enhancing their series with 3-D special effects.

For example, in the recently released Last Exile, the airships are entirely computer-generated. Last Exile is filled with amazing battle sequences, but it's quite easy to tell which parts of the show are two-dimensional, and which parts were rendered in 3-D.

I'd like to know how you feel about series that seek to integrate CGed machines, ships, weapons, water, etc. with traditional animation. Do you love these kinds of effects? Hate them? Does the contrast between 2-D and 3-D irk you to no end?

I've been thinking about this for a while, and I welcome your opinions. ^_^

~Dagger~

[eleanor]

[color=royalblue] I personally hate it when they put computer generated animation in a mostly drawn cartoon series. The two are very different, and they clash together in a weird way, so I never really enjoyed it. I love traditional animation where absolutely everything is hand-drawn and planned...one anime I can think of that I enjoy watching because of the art is [i]Cowboy Bebop[/i].

I've recently been watching the animated serise of [i]DN Angel[/i], and they mixed it CGed building and cities, and I don't particularly like it. It makes the overall world seem strange and seperate to me. *shrugs* I'm not what you would call fan over it.[/color]

[Flashlight]

I bit of CG here and there is just fine for me. If they artists can blend the CG and non CG effectivly, then I welcome them to go ahead, but usually this isn't the case :( I prefer traditional animeation all the way, but I try to keep an open mind. It can be bad or good, all depends on the series, so I welcome the artists to take some risks. :)

[OtakuSennen]

[color=midnightblue]I don't mind CG in anime that much, as long as it's done so that it looks half-presentable.

For example, I enjoy the series Witch Hunter Robin. The plot, background and action sequences are all very intriguing and fun to watch. However, the animation really throws me off. Many of the backgrounds are three-dimensional, computer generated models. I wouldn't care as much if they looked half realistic, but no. They are very simple polygons with poor textures that are basically screaming "Look, we're using modern techniques! Make note of us and buy our merchandise!".

Blue Sub Number 6, however, had some impressive Computer Graphics that enriched the experience of the miniseries for me. It came out before Witch Hunter Robin, and yet has CG that was leaps and bounds over what we found in the more recent series.

I don't like backgrounds being three-dimensional, though. My belief is that mechanical objects, such as airplanes or robots, don't seem out of place if they are three-dimensional. More natural objects, such as trees or mountains, keep their "natural" aura if they are drawn with a more ancient, polished medium such as paint brushes.

I would rather have the series be entirely hand-done, at least until technology reaches the point that a series can not look like garbage when the studio has some extra special effects money to blow.[/color]

[Dan Rugh]

I think 3D put in anime looks really out of place. I saw this anime called [i]Zaion: I Wish You Were Here[/i] on On Demand and everything was 2D except for these robots that they showed every once in a while. They looked so strange with the 2D background that it actually took away from the series a little.

[Turkey]

My main beef with 3d on anime is that the animators can't seem to stay at a constant frame rate (Zoids, anyone?). Also, the CG should be saved for scenes that really need it, not to show off the technique.

Also, if you're gonna add 3d, at least cel-shade it. That way, it won't contrast so much (unless the contrast works for the situation).

[Semjaza]

Depends on how well it is pulled off. It's almost flawless in Metropolis, for example. If they manage to match the CG style to the actual cel animated style, I have no issues with that. However, it can be a problem in the case of TV shows where the production values aren't really up to the standards of a flim like Metropolis.

Golgo 13 is a good example of why 3D shouldn't be used in anime. Then again, it's well over a decade old now heh.

[James]

[color=#707875]I agree with Semjaza, in the sense that it depends entirely on the implementation for me.

If you look at episodes on The Animatrix, you'll notice that 3D was utilized quite extensively throughout many of the episodes. However, in most cases, it came across as being very natural and fluid.

If great care is taken to combine 2D and 3D elements, then yes...I think it's quite a desirable effect, especially if it allows the animators to do things that they couldn't normally do as well in a purely 2D format.[/color]

[Queen Asuka]

[color=hotpink][size=1]I personally don't like it, even though it does enhance the show and add a lot more special effects. But then again I also think that "Hey, it's animation, they should be able to create their own special effects [i]without[/i] computer-generation!" and so I feel a tad bit disappointed.

I haven't really watched alot of anime containing 3D effects, but I know that they use it all the time in Disney movies nowadays. I miss when things were hand-drawn. It was beautiful...[/color][/size]

[The Mac Attack]

[quote]2-d + 3-d = ?[/quote]

Actually, I believe in this kind of art you can call it 4d, the fourth dimension being sound. At least that's what my old art teacher taught me.

-The Mac Attack

[Dagger]

[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by The Mac Attack[/i]
[B]Actually, I believe in this kind of art you can call it 4d, the fourth dimension being sound. At least that's what my old art teacher taught me.[/B][/QUOTE]

While I know very little about physics, I was under the impression that the fourth dimension is generally thought of as being time. It's a nice idea, however, to imagine that sound adds an entirely new level to the "moving pictures" category of art, which includes cinema, television shows, video games and animation.

[quote][i]Originally posted by OtakuSennen[/i]
[b]More natural objects, such as trees or mountains, keep their "natural" aura if they are drawn with a more ancient, polished medium such as paint brushes.[/b][/quote]

I agree, with one important exception. A lot of shows, such as Pretear and Last Exile (a series that I referred to in my original post) make good use of CGed water. If it's relatively calm and still, with only a few ripples, this can look really fantastic and usually blends quite well with 2-D backgrounds and characters. Active bodies of water, on the other hand--like stormy oceans--appear more natural when they're drawn (as opposed to rendered).

~Dagger~

[Dan Rugh]

Speaking of water, in Rurouni Kenshin, was that extremely shiny water that they would show sometimes CGd? It really didn't look hand-drawn to me.

[Dagger]

[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by Dan Rugh [/i]
[B]Speaking of water, in Rurouni Kenshin, was that extremely shiny water that they would show sometimes CGd? It really didn't look hand-drawn to me. [/B][/QUOTE]

Which episodes are you referring to?

I believe that certain parts of Rurouni Kenshin actually make use of live-action footage; while the kind of water that you're referring to [i]could[/i] have been CGed, it was probably just taken from film. In my experience, CGed water tends to look somewhat subdued and very clear, not shiny.

~Dagger~

[eleanor]

[color=royalblue][i]Speaking of water, in Rurouni Kenshin, was that extremely shiny water that they would show sometimes CGd? It really didn't look hand-drawn to me.[/i]

I don't know about [i]Rurouni Kenshin[/i], but in [i]Samurai X[/i], the directors used real-life animations of water, fire, smoke, and a beach and inserted it into the animation. I sort of flinched every time I saw those.[/color]

[Dagger]

[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by maladjusted [/i]
[B][color=royalblue]I don't know about [i]Rurouni Kenshin[/i], but in [i]Samurai X[/i], the directors used real-life animations of water, fire, smoke, and a beach and inserted it into the animation. I sort of flinched every time I saw those.[/color][/B][/QUOTE]

Episode 95 of Rurouni Kenshin uses live-action footage so heavily that I actually couldn't bear to finish watching it.

Although I realized that parts of Samurai X were not hand-drawn, I was unable to tell whether they had been rendered or simply filmed. Thanks for clearing that up. ^_^

Anyway, your comments bring me to another question: Do you think that real-life footage can ever be successfully combined with anime? I'm not referring to something drastic like the recent Looney Tunes movie; however, I have seen shows (including Fruits Basket, Gravitation and Boogiepop Phantom), which occasionally made use of live-action sequences or backgrounds.

I hope that this isn't considered to be going off-topic. I could have made a separate thread for discussing the synthesis of film and animation, but that sort of seemed like overkill.

~Dagger~

[Semjaza]

They still use that? It was funny in Muppet Babies, but that's about it. I was hoping it died after Ralph Bakshi did the Lord of the Rings and American Pop. Although he used a weird style where they filmed people and did something to it to make it look like a cartoon... even though it never did. It looked terrible. Absolutely terrible.

[JC Goodwin]

Get over it i thing cg anime is prety cool such as dominator.