Anime Charcoal Feathers Federation [Haibane Renmei]

[outlawstar69]

I recently came across this anime not too long ago, I have yet to watch it. Are there any people here who have seen it, and what are your opinions on it? This series is in the same style as Lain, and has some of the atmosphere of Witch Hunter Robin (at least that's what one review said.) I'll post what I think when I watch it.

[The Mac Attack]

I believe you're referring to Haibane-Renmei (I don't know why people call it by is alternate name. Maybe I'm using the wrong name).

Haibane-Renmei certainly is a good show. I've only seen the first four episodes though. It's not your typical "sit back and watch" programme, as I've come to expect from alot of anime. It's a real thinker.

I've become so frustrated with the show however, because the characters (so far) haven't come to the realisation about how morally awful the world they're living in is, nor have they done anything about it. They (the Haibane) have so many restrictions such as never being allowed to leave town, only wearing second hand clothes, having to work (many of them are young) and not speaking in certain circumstances.

It makes you think that reason we have so many restrictions and laws in our world is for a cause, yet in their world, all these rules have no apparent reasoning behind them.

As another note, this is the best dub I've seen so far. Everything I've viewed with comparison to subtitles is near word-to-word and I haven't found any english voices to be particularly inappropriate.

You should definetily watch this. I've heard a lot of good things from review sites about this series as well.

[ninetails390]

Haibane Renmai's great! I have a DVD of it. It kind of reminnds me of The Giver, by Louis Lowrey. You should watch it, it's a great anime. The characters are really lovable. I't's kinda sad at times though. :love2: I love the characters though;they're so sweet.

[vash-san]

i recetly watched the first two episodes of this anime but i found that the storyline moves at an incredibly slow rate.... after two episodes i still dont know what it's supposta be about....the artwork is good adn all and im probably gonna continue to watch teh whole series it just how slow the storyline moves that bothers me...

[ryo_sagara]

Haibane-Renmai is a real thinker...I really like it though. Most of Yoshitoshi aBe's stuff is really good.

I actually went to a panel on it at an anime convention and they sort of explained it as being a sort of, an after death place inbetween heaven and earth or thats what I got out of it anyway.
What the guy who was doing the panel said was that some animes like that may be too intelligent for non-japanese people. Not to be racist, but I think it's true...I being from America have realized most shows on T.V. are reality shows or makeover shows. It's dissapointing.
Back to Haibane, I think that the regular people shouldn't be so anti-haibane, they treat them like they are a lower species. It makes for a more interesting story plot though.^_^ But I also agree with The Mac Attack person, they really haven't done anything to make their lives any better.

It really is a wonderful series, I would also recommend Niea_7 it's made by the same person.^_^

[Guest Chii Ayumi]

Haibane Renmei was a awesome anime, the storyline, the charcters where al awesome, but there are only 12 or 13 epps.

[natetron46]

There were only 12 eps, I thought it was closer to 20 actually, maybe your right though, either way its not a long anime, which is too bad, if they could just make more eps with more plot, action, and character development that would have made an even better series. :)

[Okita]

I am sorry to say that I absolutely detest the execution and format of this type of show, it's predecessor is an anime called Neia Under 7 (or something as such) and shares the same painfully slow pacing.

The theme is actually interesting, and I've nothing against it, but the way the director choose to portray action and reaction in this (and all the anime I've seen him direct) really bores me to tears, I gave up after episode six (just about the halfway point i think) and besides a few odd laugh found the show extremely sleep inducing, had this anime been giving a slightly faster pacing or even more plot centric rather than theme centric I would have enjoyed it more, as it is I find it only good as a sleep aid...

[Dagger]

I went into this anime with a wee bit of trepidation. As feared, the first episode basically started putting me to sleep--but the scene in which [spoiler]Rakka's wings sprouted[/spoiler] really made me sit up and take notice. It was startlingly gruesome and quickly succeeded in jolting me out of my stupor. If I make it past the first DVD of Haibane-Renmei, it will be thanks to the potential offered by that initial hint of darkness.

~Dagger~

[AzureWolf]

[FONT=book antiqua][SIZE=2][COLOR=blue]I loved Haibane Renmei (so anyone who disses it will have to answer to me! j/k).

I have to disagree with your description, Dagger. I don't know why you saw the scene as gruesome, but to me, there was little to be grossed out about. In fact, I dare say that the whole experience from the scene is akin to [SPOILER]pinching one's self to make sure they are awake. What is happening is extraordinarily real, just as the pain is extraordinarily great[/SPOILER]. Anyway, the whole event wasn't... "gruesome."

As for liking Haibane Renmei, I see the show as a hit or miss: either you like what it is doing and where it is going, or you don't. There's little to be had in terms of story, but the character development is top notch, IMO. So, you could kind of call Haibane Renmei a "tester" to see what you are really into: plot or character development, heh.

It's not even like, character development... *thinks* It's like, character "experience." *shrugs* You'll see what I'm talking about.

Before Tsukihime, Haibane Renmei was my anime of choice. I was obsessed with it, haha. I even got the doujins to figure out if there was further development/clarification in there. What's funny is that the creator says something like, "these are the questions that the anime will address."[/COLOR][/SIZE][/FONT]

[Dagger]

[QUOTE=AzureWolf][FONT=book antiqua][SIZE=2][COLOR=blue]I loved Haibane Renmei (so anyone who disses it will have to answer to me! j/k).

I have to disagree with your description, Dagger. I don't know why you saw the scene as gruesome, but to me, there was little to be grossed out about. In fact, I dare say that the whole experience from the scene is akin to [SPOILER]pinching one's self to make sure they are awake. What is happening is extraordinarily real, just as the pain is extraordinarily great[/SPOILER]. Anyway, the whole event wasn't... "gruesome."[/color][/size][/font][/quote]

That's a good point, and I can see how the experience would be valuable to Rakka, but it did make me cringe. Her pain was portrayed very realistically and unflinchingly, which is what impressed me. It's not that I was grossed out, precisely--I just found it uncomfortably easy to imagine what it would feel like. Gruesome may have been too strong a word. "Disconcerting," maybe?

~Dagger~

[Sara]

[color=#4b4b79]This is an anime that I actually mean to see. I remember reading an article about it...early last year? I don't really recall, but I remember being very taken with the images presented, and interested by the concept and the characters.

I remember thinking that it reminded me of Serial Experiments Lain. Is there anything to that?

I actually had a Rakka avatar and banner for a while, heh, which is unusual, since I don't often have both at the same time.

two sandcastles,
Sara[/color]

[AzureWolf]

[quote name='Lore][color=#4b4b79']I remember thinking that it reminded me of Serial Experiments Lain. Is there anything to that?[/color][/quote][FONT=book antiqua][SIZE=2][COLOR=blue]Yep! I noticed that too! Rakka is SO much like Lain! It's because the same doujin/manga creator drew them both. Some guy named Yoshitoshi aBe (Yoshi-toshi, haha).

[quote name='Lore][color=#4b4b79']I actually had a Rakka avatar and banner for a while, heh, which is unusual, since I don't often have both at the same time.[/color][/quote]You know, I didn't want to say anything earlier because I thought you'd find it weird, but then I ran it past Umberto Eco. :p I seriously always associated you with Rakka because of that avi and banner, and after seeing Haibane Renmei, your character/behavior seems to be like Rakka (not that it is, I just associate the two, heh). So, when I think Sara in anime, I think Rakka.[/COLOR][/SIZE][/FONT]

EDIT: Oh, whoops. Missed Dagger's post. Yeah, I realize I may be nit-picking (yet again), but really, the connotation gruesome gives off is very close to gore, which I always associate with dismemberment (at the least).

[Sara]

[quote name='AzureWolf][FONT=book antiqua][SIZE=2][COLOR=blue]You know, I didn't want to say anything earlier because I thought you'd find it weird, but then I ran it past Umberto Eco. :p I seriously always associated you with Rakka because of that avi and banner, and after seeing Haibane Renmei, your character/behavior seems to be like Rakka (not that it is, I just associate the two, heh). So, when I think Sara in anime, I think Rakka.[/COLOR][/SIZE'][/FONT][/quote][color=#4b4b79]*laughs* I really should see this now, heh. (Umberto says hello, incidently.)

It turns out my friend has this, so I might actually go over to his house tonight and watch part of it. He owes me a movie night, anyway, heh. It's been such a long time since I watched something new.

The impression I have of the show is something...hm. *tries to put this into words instead of pictures* Something sort of soft, and strange and dark. (Not dark, exactly....oh, bother. I can't quite translate, heh.)

Azure, if you had to describe the feel of the series (not what happens, or the story, but the feel/ambience) of it, what would you say it was?

aMAIZEing mazes,
Sara[/color]

[AzureWolf]

[quote name='Lore][color=#4b4b79']It turns out my friend has this, so I might actually go over to his house tonight and watch part of it. He owes me a movie night, anyway, heh. It's been such a long time since I watched something new.[/color][/quote][FONT=book antiqua][SIZE=2][COLOR=blue]Awesome. If you watch it in english, please tell me how the dubbing fares. I do have the whole set (and the pencil boards they come with!), but I never got around to actually watching it with the english voice actors.

Yes, I realize you haven't heard it in Japanese, but that's actually better, as you can make a more objective stance. It's been my experience that the first dub a person hears usually impairs their opinion of the other dub (not saying that applies to you, but it could, like it does to me, haha). [QUOTE=Lore][color=#4b4b79]The impression I have of the show is something...hm. *tries to put this into words instead of pictures* Something sort of soft, and strange and dark. (Not dark, exactly....oh, bother. I can't quite translate, heh.)

Azure, if you had to describe the feel of the series (not what happens, or the story, but the feel/ambience) of it, what would you say it was?[/color][/QUOTE]OMG! This is why you must watch more anime (or at least animes I've seen)! Only you could come up with such creative discussion pieces! What an awesome topic to talk about!

But at the same time, these are the types of questions that have brought me down to a B in all my college humanities classes (well, except history of medicine, which doesn't count as a humanities in my book)...

*thinks hard* This question is quite the thinker. Definately [i]soft[/i], that goes without question. The feeling, if not due to the artwork, is due to the setting and the music - "Adore" specifically comes to mind. Everything - art, setting, and music - gives off a strongly soft feel (strongly soft... you know what I mean).

With the words [i]strange[/i] and [i]dark[/i]... I know what you mean, but those words just aren't it (as you've noticed). [i]Surreal[/i] also goes into the category of describing Haibane Renmei - but not quite. In fact, I think you've already got the feeling of Haibane Renmei. Now I'm curious about how you arrived at it without having ever seen the series.

Does [i]ethereal surrealism[/i] make sense? I think that comes closest to the feeling of Haibane Renmei: a very realistic/reasonable, yet somehow distant, world.

In the end, I think a few words that border on paradoxical describe Haibane Renmei best. If I had to put my money on any words, it would be [i]soft, shadowy, surreal, distant, and inviting[/i]. I know I technically can't be wrong (since the question is the feeling [i][B]I[/B][/i] think Haibane Renmei has). Still, those words just don't hit the nail on the head as well as they should, but they are the closest I could come up with.

To put it simply, I really like this question, but I don't have the capacity to answer it, haha. If you brought this question up for an anime like Naruto, it would have been so easy to explain, and yet, you picked possibly one of the hardest ones to describe! I'm not a Professor of Semantics, so asking someone with those kinds of credentials would be your best bet. Yeah, maybe [B]in your dreams[/B] (sorry, I just can't let it go!). :p

Just asking again in case you missed it: what gives off the feeling of Haibane Renmei to you without having ever seen it?[/COLOR][/SIZE][/FONT]

[Sara]

[quote name='AzureWolf][FONT=book antiqua][SIZE=2][COLOR=blue]Just asking again in case you missed it: what gives off the feeling of Haibane Renmei to you without having ever seen it?[/COLOR][/SIZE'][/FONT][/quote][color=#4b4b79]*laughs*

Well...the artwork I've seen all gives off that impression, for one thing. It looks like it's been done in dark pastels, which is a really interesting medium to work with. (I have no idea what the pictures were actually done with, heh, but thats just my thought.) [url=http://cff.ssw.net/merchandise/cd-hanenone-j-lg.jpg]This picture[/url] and [url=http://inferno.slug.org/jpeg/haibane-renmei.jpg]this picture[/url] show that really well. The colors used are also interesting--I haven't seen [i]anything[/i] with any bright colors. Everything is muted. The 'pastel' look is the softness of the pictures. There aren't sharp lines, or anything (for a good example of that, look at the trees in the background there.) I realize that seperate artwork doesn't reflect the style of animation, but artwork generally does capture the feel of the series...that's what it's meant to do. (Example: Watercolors and concept/character art from Studio Ghibli (Say, [i]Totoro[/i] or [i]Spirited Away[/i]) pieces. The film obviously isn't [i]animated[/i] using watercolor, but it's a soft, light medium that fits the way things are done in the film.)

The idea of angels with grey wings is interesting, as well. Angels are usually shown as being pure, special, magical, so the concept of angels with "dirty" wings kind of turns that on its head, and gives the impression that if not [i]dark[/i], the show is at least, um....dim. *laughs softly* (There was a time a little over a year ago when I drew a lot of interesting "dirty" angels. [url=http://fanart.theotaku.com/view.php?action=retrieve&id=2791]Gabi and Trudi[/url] and [url=http://fanart.theotaku.com/view.php?action=retrieve&id=8337]Carina[/url] are examples. Carina was actually a character in a story-concept I had. The other two are actually called "Charcoal Angels" in the title, because the medium I used was charcoal, heh. Interesting trivia.)

At the same time, it is about angels, which lends at least some aspect of otherworldiness to it. It seems (I don't know if this is right) like they are second-rate citizens, which, coupled with the fact they're in a walled town they aren't allowed to leave, has a vague feel of dystopia to it.

...I've also read some information on the characters, but I can't pull anything particular out from that at the moment, heh.

(And incidently, I did go over to my friend's house, but we ended up watching [i]Dr. Strangelove[/i], so I've still not seen any of it.)

one potato, two potato,
Sara[/color]

[AzureWolf]

[quote name='Lore][color=#4b4b79](There was a time a little over a year ago when I drew a lot of interesting "dirty" angels. [url=http://fanart.theotaku.com/view.php?action=retrieve&id=2791]Gabi and Trudi[/url] and [url=http://fanart.theotaku.com/view.php?action=retrieve&id=8337]Carina[/url'] are examples. Carina was actually a character in a story-concept I had. The other two are actually called "Charcoal Angels" in the title, because the medium I used was charcoal, heh. Interesting trivia.)[/color][/quote][FONT=book antiqua][SIZE=2][COLOR=blue]You have an interesting mind to come up with such ideas and characters, and it is suprising that so much thought of "necessity" is in your artwork. I know when I make banners and the like, I add things "because they look nice," not because they have any interesting backstory, haha. Last time I had a double meaning in anything my professor thought I wanted to room with him. O_o

As for the rest of your post... OMG! You are killing me. There's so much to say about your comments that I can't! All I can say (until you watch the thing) is that you are quite an interesting person.

Sara, this is an [B]honest[/B] threat: watch Haibane Renmei or there will be...[/COLOR][/FONT] [FONT=comic sans MS][COLOR=green]dire consequences. This threat is not as simple as it appears at first, as it much worse dan u expect. yes u wont want wut i have planend for u shud u not finally wach haibane renmei

dis iz not an idle threat, and i will do mai best to [B]make it as bad as posibe[/B][/COLOR][/SIZE][/FONT]

[FONT=book antiqua][SIZE=2][COLOR=blue]In hindsight, I wonder if it's wise to threaten a moderator who has the power to ban me...[/COLOR][/SIZE][/FONT]

[Sara]

[color=#4b4b79](Sorry for kipping out on you just now, my internet connection is not everything it could be.)

I'm really sorry that I've been "killing" you for so long. I've been kinda waiting for you to post, so I could post again and then talk about what I thought as I watched it with my friend. Anyway, I've seen roughly the first half of the series (there are 12 episodes? I think I saw that earlier in this thread... Anyway, I think the last one I watched was the one after[/color] [spoiler]Kuu disappeared[/spoiler][color=#4b4b79].

I have to admit, I'm really anxious to know what on earth you've been so desperate to talk about. So...maybe I'd better just hand this over to you.

Although I wanted to ask--are the Haibane always the same age? Because there were flashbacks of Reki looking small and cute, but it seemed like Kuu never grew into her too-big clothes (how much longer than Rakka has she been there?) So I didn't really know what to make of that.

curiously [strike]george[/strike]
Sara[/color]

[AzureWolf]

[quote name='Lore][color=#4b4b79]I'm really sorry that I've been "killing" you for so long. I've been kinda waiting for you to post, so I could post again and then talk about what I thought as I watched it with my friend. Anyway, I've seen roughly the first half of the series (there are 12 episodes? I think I saw that earlier in this thread... Anyway, I think the last one I watched was the one after[/color] [spoiler]Kuu disappeared[/spoiler'].[/quote][FONT=book antiqua][SIZE=2][COLOR=blue]w00t! That's a relief. I don't know if I could write that badly (and in green) for very long anyway...

There are 13 episodes (close enough, heh). I actually took a break around the same time as you to let the whole incident sink in and pretty much sort out a few of the events and emotions in my head before continuing. (this seems rather pointless to post, since I'm IMing the same thing to you right now. O_o) [QUOTE][color=#4b4b79]I have to admit, I'm really anxious to know what on earth you've been so desperate to talk about. So...maybe I'd better just hand this over to you.[/color][/QUOTE] Well, to put it bluntly, everything you said is more accurate than you can imagine. It's simply unbelieveable (to me at least) that you were able to derive so many important aspects of HR without ever having seen the series. That's just the start of what I want to say, btw! [QUOTE][color=#4b4b79]Although I wanted to ask--are the Haibane always the same age? Because there were flashbacks of Reki looking small and cute, but it seemed like Kuu never grew into her too-big clothes (how much longer than Rakka has she been there?) So I didn't really know what to make of that.[/color][/QUOTE] The Haibane do age naturally, as do the townspeople. The only people I don't think age are [SPOILER]the Toga[/SPOILER], but that's really my guess, based on a variety of ideas I've gathered. I think you'll come to the same conclusion yourself, though, since you already picked up on and figured out way more than I did at this point.

Case and point, you noticed the ages and durations... Again, you have an incredibly sharp mind.[/COLOR][/SIZE][/FONT]

[Dagger]

Finally finished the first DVD... it might be a month or so before I can get my hands on the second one, though. We'll see.

At first I was unimpressed by the show's OP, but I've realized that in the context of the series it's actually pretty exciting and evocative. The instrumental music is really beautiful, and it reminds me of Twelve Kingdom's opening theme (which is one of my all-time favorites). The ending song/animation is also very pretty.

So far, Kana is probably my favorite character, and that's mostly thanks to episode 4. She and Rakka play off each other nicely. Plus, her presence is what allowed for a clarification of the whole crow metaphor (at least, I think I understand it a little better now).

~Dagger~

[AzureWolf]

[quote name='Dagger IX1]Finally finished the first DVD... it might be a month or so before I can get my hands on the second one, though. We'll see.[/QUOTE][FONT=book antiqua][SIZE=2][COLOR=blue]What happens at the end of the first DVD? I don't have a perfect memory of what DVD contains what, heh, and I'm curious as to how far you are. [QUOTE']At first I was unimpressed by the show's OP, but I've realized that in the context of the series it's actually pretty exciting and evocative. The instrumental music is really beautiful...[/quote]Evocative, huh... *looks it up* So... would you say it's [i]erotically[/i] evocative, or just evocative? j/k (nice word, btw)

I'm a huge fan of the music myself. The uniqueness of it is only topped by Last Exile's soundtrack (or just sounds overall). I know, if you are a fan of classical instrumental music, all of this stuff may seem unoriginal, but for anime, it is rather unique. Also, the music always tends to give a good sense of the atmosphere, and there are a diversity of moods. There are times when it's energetic and everyone's happy, and then there are the gloomy times, but whatever the situation, the songs are very suitable.

The opening is very powerful and beautiful, IMO. Speaking of which, I liked how they didn't have nudity for the sake of nudity. The Haibane enter with clothes on, which is such a nice change. I never bothered to think if that was important, since it is out of the ordinary for something like that to not be nude.[QUOTE]So far, Kana is probably my favorite character, and that's mostly thanks to episode 4. She and Rakka play off each other nicely. Plus, her presence is what allowed for a clarification of the whole crow metaphor (at least, I think I understand it a little better now).[/QUOTE] While we are on the topic of music, I'm 100% sure my favorite song from Haibane Renmei plays in that episode. It's called "A Little Plate's Rondo." Rondo's are simple, but if pulled off well, they can be very good (it's that A-B-A-C-A thing). It plays at some point when [SPOILER]Kana has trouble with the crows[/SPOILER].

You know what's interesting about the crows? They are also in the opening in Lain, but I didn't figure out their significance there. I don't think there's a single crow throughout Lain except in the opening, which is weird. In Haibane Renmei, even if you get the meaning wrong, you'll figure it out sooner or later (I'm pretty sure they tell you at some point).[/COLOR][/SIZE][/FONT]

[Dagger]

[quote name='AzureWolf][FONT=book antiqua][SIZE=2][COLOR=blue]What happens at the end of the first DVD? I don't have a perfect memory of what DVD contains what, heh, and I'm curious as to how far you are.[/COLOR][/SIZE'][/FONT][/quote]

Let's see... well, in the previous episode, Rakka had just started going around with different Haibane and helping them with their jobs. In the last episode on the disc, she heads over to the clock tower with Kana, so it's really the first time Kana becomes a focal character. This isn't spoiler tag material, is it?

Toward the end of the DVD, I started to feel like the OP animation was trying to tell me something--but every time I watched it I sort of slipped into this ultra-relaxed mood that totally thwarted my attempts to pick up on little clues (assuming there even are any in the first place). ^_^;;

~Dagger~

[Sara]

[color=#4b4b79]Okay, heh. I wasn't really sure where I wanted to go with this, so right now I think I'm just going to post parts of the conversation I had with Azure and expand on them a little bit.

These are all theories and musings. And spoilers, probably, so have fun.


[center][size=4][b][u]Reki, the Ending, FGiWD?[/b][/u][/size][/center][/color]

[quote=Azure and Sara]

[b]And the ending, was it satisfactory? [/b]

[spoiler]I think so, mostly. It was very dramatic and dark, which was interesting. I think...it ended up working very well. I was a little annoyed that they put in the younger version of Reki, because everything else semed very fresh and original, and "Creepy little girl in a white dress" is kinda overused in scary stuff... *laughs softly* But other than that, I think...

[b]Yeah, I agree with that. I don't even know why they needed her there.[/b][/spoiler][/quote][spoiler]The ending turned out to be very dark, and more so than I had originally expected. I did expect that it would end with Reki's "Day of Flight," since there had been references to her not having much time left.

When she got up after the festival and said goodbye to everyone, it seemed like she was happy and ready to leave, and I assumed that she had found forgiveness--possibly from Abandoned Factory's yellow fireworks. (Remember, it was said that a sin-bound Haibane could not forgive himself; he had to be given forgiveness by another.) After Midori's mad race to make sure Reki saw the fireworks as midnight, I was sure that they would be symbolic of forgiveness, and everything would turn out as a result.

So when Reki's halo started flickering and she left the guest room with the other Haibane in it, I thought she was going out to the ruins. When Rakka went looking for her in her room, I was surprised. When she went into the studio, and Reki was there, I was even more surprised--especially by Reki's comment, which was definitely not the sort of kind thing I expected of her. Of course, Reki made a point of explaining herself and really shaking Rakka up. //

After Reki finished yelling at Rakka, I again expected something like Rakka's saying "I forgive you," but that didn't happen either. She [i]left[/i], scared and upset, which was in character, but not what I had been anticipating. Once again, I was pleased that it hadn't ended in such a cliché (well, maybe not cliché, but certainly trite) cop-out, heh.

I wasn't happy with the Freaky Girl in White Dress? at all. I understand that there can be a lot of underlying symbolism, blah blah blah... (Interesting: the first time we saw Mini-Reki here, she was trying to help. But...she turned into stone and fell apart or something. I don't quite remember. The second time, when Rakka sees her, FGiWD? is [i]keeping Rakka from helping[/i] Reki. So if you want to get into symbolism, the first appearance (pre-shattering) is Reki as a child when she is still open and easily trusting. The second appearance (post-shattering) is Reki as a girl after Kuramori left and after the incident with Hyouko at the wall, after she made the decision not to let anyone in. So that could explain the drastic change in behavior that puzzled me originally.)

Also, few things scare me like demonic children in horror movies. ^^;[/spoiler]

[color=#4b4b79]I think I'm going to stop there for now. Wow, there's so much stuff I want to talk about. =p Anyway, Azure...comments? Come on, you milked me for my thoughts earlier, give me some input.

More later.

I only dream of you,
Sara[/color]

[AzureWolf]

[FONT=book antiqua][SIZE=2][COLOR=blue]Whoa... Anyone else see lines after reading highlighted text for extended periods of time?

Anyway, that entire scene was filled with unexpected developments. Like you, I did not expect those actions certain characters made. I tell you, [SPOILER]when Rakka ran out after Reki's convincingly-insane banter[/SPOILER], I almost went crazy with anticipation. That single action really intensified the entire situation to maddening levels. I too was expecting [SPOILER]Rakka to say, "I forgive you"[/spoiler]. If that did happen, just imagine how much lighter (comparatively, of course) the whole situation would have been.

Very very tense. Moving on, I never considered the FGiWD? thing too much (I can do that without spoiler text because of your nifty abbreviation). However, do you really think that [SPOILER]Hyouko's failed attempt at going past the wall was responsible for Reki's cynical behavior[/SPOILER]? Wasn't she always like that when she came to Gaihe (I think that's the name of the town)? Regardless, FGiWD? has a duality that probably has a good reason behind it, and yours makes sense. I'm just wondering if you could build on your explanation by telling why one version shows up at one point, and another at a different time.

Now that I think about it, it would be important that the FGiWD? [SPOILER]has wings[/SPOILER]. I don't remember if she does, but if she doesn't, then I'm more inclined to think that it has something to do with [SPOILER]her former life (or pre-Gaihe existence)[/SPOILER]. I don't know what exactly, but we have some stuff to think about if that's the case. But I won't start extrapolating wild ideas before you tell me if FGiWD? [SPOILER]had wings[/SPOILER] or not, because if she did and I start making this long-winded post about if she didn't, it'd be so awkward (for me).

One last point about the ending: [SPOILER]Rakka didn't really discover the answers to any mysteries. Her search for the answer to "What is this place?" and "What are the Haibane?" and so forth are left unanswered. In fact, nothing in Gaihe changes.

However, just before the very end, it was so dark and the degree of intensity so high, that you are left with contentment when things finally resolve. From day one, even if you don't notice while watching, it was all about Reki's Day of Flight, and so I was happy with the ending (and so was Rakka, heh). Still, nothing happens or changes, and we are left with quite a bit of things to think about[/SPOILER].

But as Einstein says, "God's greatest gift to man is mystery." I think it rings true in this anime more than in others. [SPOILER]You aren't left with a bad taste in your mouth, even if you haven't learned (directly/explicitly at least) of anything. And you still want to think about it more (why is that?)[/SPOILER].

That was the essence of my "are you happy with the ending" question. I'm glad you saw it the way I did, and were pleased. It wasn't supposed to be [SPOILER]a lesson in conformity[/SPOILER] or some such nonsense, as I've heard other people say.

I really have to thank you for taking more initiative (compared to other anime viewers, including myself) and [SPOILER]looking up the names of other characters to ponder about their deaths, not to mention about the meaning of Toga[/SPOILER]. Those were things I never bothered to do, as big of a Haibane fan I am. So, thanks to you, my appreciation for the anime has grown. I'm glad I'm getting to revisit and relearn about such a powerful series, haha.

Alright, time for more pestering. :p

I have a thought about the Toga that I would like to share, but not until you've formed your own opinion about them. This idea first came to me when [SPOILER]Rakka was given a job to clean the insides(?) of the wall, and I noticed the Toga dude's physical disposition. The definition you found STRONGLY supports my idea[/SPOILER].

Also, we never discussed the crows! Meaning of the crows? What are the crows in Gaihe's purpose (if they have one)?[/COLOR][/SIZE][/FONT]

[Sara]

[color=#ff6600]Okay, let's see.

[center][size=4][b][u]Reki and her relationship to FGiWD?[/b][/u][/size][/center]

Remember, from the very beginning of the series, Reki was always upset about[/color] [spoiler]people always leaving her[/spoiler]. [color=#ff6600]I think that after she arrived in the town, [/color][spoiler]she was still very open--looking for friendship and help. However, a series of events--from Kuramori's day of flight, to befriending the Haibane at the factory and then being forbidden to make contact with them after the wall incident--caused her to stop looking for help. She closed herself off. So while she was always lost, at the beginning, she was at least looking to others for friendship and help.[/spoiler] [color=#ff6600]And that's where I'm drawing the 'duality of FGiWD?' interpretation from. Not that it was [spoiler]Hyouko's attempt at climbing the wall[/spoiler], exactly, but that (and the results of it) were a factor.

I have no idea if FGiWD? [spoiler] had wings[/spoiler].

[center][size=4][b][u]Toga, Toga, Toga! [spoiler]sorry =][/spoiler][/b][/u][/size][/center]

I think, before I can say anything about the Toga, I need to know who they are, exactly. That is, what information are we given in the story? They only [spoiler]use hand signals, do not speak, and...are allowed to trade with the outside world? [/spoiler]

The Official guy at the Temple place knew the [spoiler]hand signals and could communicate with them, yes? [/spoiler] Was he one of them?

I guess my thoughts (without elaborating, because I'm given to assuming you have roughly the same idea, and I don't want to wax philosophical without knowing what I'm talking about *points upward*) are this: [spoiler]Haibane who "miss" their Day of Flight because they are sinbound (or for another reason?) "lose their halos and wings and live away from both the Haibane and the humans" (to quote something I remember the Official guy saying). My original thought here was that the Toga were such "failed" Haibane.[/spoiler] There wasn't a lot of good reason for this...they were the only group I hadn't heard explained yet, heh, so it seemed to fit. (Although later there was more stuff that seemed to fit with this.)

I was talking with Robb about this last night, and he suggested that the Official was [spoiler] such a failed Haibane. I personally can't remember if he had his halo and wings, although I think he did have wings (or at least wing covers?) [/spoiler]

When I asked about the Toga [spoiler]not talking, he said it was to keep the people in the town from getting any information about the outside world.[/spoiler] Which makes sense, I think.

So I guess...there are two different aspects of the Toga I just posted about. I'm not sure what, exactly, either of them are, but I'm sort of pulling in two different directions, and I shall leave it up to you to decipher which is which.

I can't believe I ate the whole thing,
Sara[/color]