Gaming Resident Evil 4

[Brasil]

[QUOTE=AzureWolf]This goes back to efficienct use of ammo. I don't know about you, but I had the shotgun by that particular scene, and properly-planned (and aimed? O_o) shots will give you more than enough time to reload. Why just slash down to reload a few shots when you can almost kill them with one or two blows in the process?

But let's get back to a bigger problem: Why would you need to reload? You obviously aren't using ammo efficiently if you find yourself needing to reload while there are monsters standing. I've played through the entire game, so I'm familiar with every scenario it throws at you. With the exception of the mine cart part, I never found myself needed to reload at crucial points. Hell, I stopped using the knife early in the game and still had to sell ammo to have room to grab herbs.

This isn't a boast about how good I am, mind you (my aim is terrible, haha). I'm just saying, if you know which gun to use for a specific situation, and make every shot count, not only will you find yourself never reloading in the middle of a fight, but you will have enough ammo that you'll be forced to sell/throw quite a bit away.[/quote]
AW, you can't have perfect shots all the time. You just can't. You can't always have enough ammo. You just can't. Yes, there are some portions in the game where you have quite a bit--more than you would think you need in an RE game--but your lack of ammo reserves often does not depend on your accuracy, because throughout the game, there are enemies constantly stalking you and you will be draining those clips.

[quote]if you know which gun to use for a specific situation, and make every shot count, not only will you find yourself never reloading in the middle of a fight[/quote]
I find that statement to be particularly naive. Selecting your shots will conserve the clips, yes, but that certainly doesn't guarantee anything. It's not as if popping enemies in the legs all the time is going to magically give you a seemingly infinite clip in combat. You say your aim is terrible. That doesn't really coincide with what you're saying (and implying) in your reply. You've been saying that with solid shots, you can conserve ammo like nothing else, and never have to reload, but then say you have terrible aim.

AzureWolf, I do have pretty damn good accuracy in RE4 (my lowest accuracy rating was approximately 85% give or take a few points), and others here do, as well, and we all know that even if you're a frigging crackshot in RE4, you're still going to be needing to reload in combat...you're still going to be running low on ammo at various points in the game. With the new menu change (Inability to reload in the Inventory screen, forcing the player to reload in-game), I find it incredibly hard to believe that players (you in particular with your terrible accuracy) are never having to reload in combat when there are still enemies approaching.

[quote]Haha, I think you and I see the Shotgun differently. Certainly, it's faster to fire when someone "melee"'s you. Did you get up to the dogs? That's as "melee" as they get, and the knife's "arc" or whatever is a waste of time and effort. The shotgun is the ultimate melee weapon, as any close-ranged idiot will be sent flying away.[/QUOTE]
The Shotgun is handy when the enemies are in the front quadrant...but it's not going to hit anyone in the left and right quadrants. If you want an example of this, take a look at the wind chasm area (the chapter when you see the Merchant through the window). There will be points in that level where the Shotgun is going to be useless, because villagers come at you from three sides and in melee combat, not mid-range.

I've gotten past the wolves, AW, lol, but I don't see how that really supports your argument all that well, considering that in order to effectively blast them, they need to be fairly close to each other. They start to attack by leaping into you, so your Shotgun is equally useless in close combat there.

If you fire a shot off before they sink their teeth into your throat, fine and dandy, but even then...that's a mid-range shot, not close-combat and sure as hell not melee, so to claim that the Shotgun is the "ultimate melee weapon" is asinine at best.

And even then, in mid-range combat (with any enemy), the Shotgun isn't going to be terribly effective apart from buying you some time (i.e., only a KD), because the only times it is truly effective is when you get up close, and even then, there's a very particular window of time when you can fire, because the enemies in the game move in quickly and gouge you as fast as they can.

Yes, the Shotgun is handy for various types of combat in the game, but its long range damage capabilities are nil, and the best you're going to get there is a KnockDown.

In mid-range combat, there needs to be a grouping of enemies; otherwise, you're just lobbing shells and getting a few kills/KnockDowns.

In close-combat, you're only going to be able to hit those directly in front of you; there's very little chance of you hitting those enemies approaching in the left and right quadrants.

In melee combat, forget it.

Shotgun is handy, yes, but don't see a few moments of Shotgun Uberness and automatically discount the knife's usefulness, because it is extremely useful, especially in close and melee combat.

[satan665]

You can teach yourself to use the knife by playing in mercenaries mode as Krauser. Certain levels you really need it, and slashing at the feet or head of one nearby enemy can give you a kick opportunity which can clear out the area a little. I didn't use the knife much until the second playthrough, but even then I'm not brave enough to use it much. If the ganados don't have a weapon at all it works great, but otherwise its too risky.

Last thing I did in RE4 was finish the second half of the game with the Chicago Typewriter and saved up all of the Magnum ammo I could. I'm ready for playthrough number 4 with about 90 shots with the Broken Butterfly. Its a good stress reliever. I did notice that the first boss (the wet one) was 10X harder on the third play. Everything else seemed the same though.

Also I'm going to try to tackle professional mode, since I'm not good enough to get 5 star ratings on Mercenaries. Has anyone else tried Professional mode and how have you done?

[Jonexe]

I've beaten the game on both normal, and professional mode now; and I'm still enjoying it.

I've seen a lot of arguements about how accuracy can give you relief of a reload or what have you, and how those say they have good accuracy ratings, but still have problems with it.

Accuracy is determined IF you hit the enemy, not WHERE. You accuracy rating isn't as important as where you actually hit.

My first time through the game. I had a real problem with the part where you have to protect Ashley as she lowers the stairs, and then raises the two platforms so you can escape. It's just after you enter the castle, after the blind claw guy, but before she gets captured. I kept running out of ammo at that part, and thus dying. It's then that I learned a nice little trick with the handgun.

Get yourself a handgun with decent power, decent firing speed, and an ok reload time. Then aim at the knees. Yes, I know they're hard to hit; but if you aim down and pop off a couple shots, you can usually get a guy or two down to their knees, and then Suplex them. Get this, while you're in the suplex animation YOU CANNOT BE HIT. The enemy you suplex, and the ones around you, will not attack you for a second or two after the animation; and the guy you suplexed will either be dead, or laying on the ground. It gives you a brief second to reload, use an herb, fire, or dodge. Sometimes, that can be a real help. Granted, you won't ALWAYS hit their knees; but by firing off two or three rounds, you'll MOST LIKELY hit, and that's what counts. I don't know how much it'll help, but it doesn't hurt to try it.

As for the question on professional mode; it's really not THAT much harder. The only thing is that enemies take a shot or two more to take down, and they hit you for A LOT more damage. If you stick to your basic stratagies, and try your best to hit weak points (The head on villagers, for example), you can run through it fairly easily. The bosses later in the game can be a bit of a pain, namely Salazar. The Prisoner guy was kind of hard as well. But again, just stick to the basics, and don't get fancy; you should be fine.

[Brasil]

[quote name='Jonexe]Get yourself a handgun with decent power, decent firing speed, and an ok reload time. Then aim at the knees. Yes, I know they're hard to hit; but if you aim down and pop off a couple shots, you can usually get a guy or two down to their knees, and then Suplex them. Get this, while you're in the suplex animation YOU CANNOT BE HIT. The enemy you suplex, and the ones around you, will not attack you for a second or two after the animation; and the guy you suplexed will either be dead, or laying on the ground. [b]It gives you a brief second to reload, use an herb, fire, or dodge[/b']. Sometimes, that can be a real help. Granted, you won't ALWAYS hit their knees; but by firing off two or three rounds, you'll MOST LIKELY hit, and that's what counts. I don't know how much it'll help, but it doesn't hurt to try it.[/quote]
And that's my point. No matter what you do in the game, there will be times when you're forced to reload in combat. Strategic firing or not, AzureWolf's claim that you'll never have to reload if you time/place your shots correctly is asinine, because we've all executed proper round timing/placement and still find ourselves having to reload in the middle of a group of enemies. The suplex maneuver, like you said, isn't guaranteed to knock down every enemy, so the need to reload mid-combat is very real.

[AzureWolf]

[quote name='Siren']And that's my point. No matter what you do in the game, there will be times when you're forced to reload in combat. Strategic firing or not, AzureWolf's claim that you'll never have to reload if you time/place your shots correctly is asinine...[/quote][FONT=book antiqua][SIZE=2][COLOR=blue]I'm sorry to say, Siren, but I think he was supporting my point, not your increasingly flawed side.

I never meant you wouldn't have to reload in combat, and as Jonexe pointed out, dropping your enemy is the time to reload. A standing enemy denotes one that is on his two feet (or his two - or four - whatever). However, this does not immediately mean that an enemy that is not standing is dead. I think you aren't shooting them or fighting them properly if you never knew that you can drop them before they die. But you can, provided you make good/smart shots (i.e., efficient use of ammo).

Before my figure of speech (i.e., middle of a fight), I stated "crucial points" and "monsters standing." I admit, I shouldn't have used the figure of speech if it wasn't clear what I meant beforehand. So, I will clearly state my side now: you can create an opening to reload (if you need to) more effectively and faster with smart gunshooting than with the very dispensible knife.

As for your accuracy, get over yourself. Jonexe pointed out that accuracy is just hitting the enemy, not shooting them in the best/smartest places. You sound like you use the knife alot, which, as useless as it is, is hard to miss with.
[QUOTE]You say your aim is terrible. That doesn't really coincide with what you're saying (and implying) in your reply. You've been saying that with solid shots, you can conserve ammo like nothing else, and never have to reload, but then say you have terrible aim.[/QUOTE] Actually, it makes my point stronger. I had terrible aim, yet I was able to have more than enough ammo at every point in the game. So, if someone like me, with my terrible aim, is able to not need to reload at crucial points, and have more than enough ammo, then you, with your god-like capabilities, should be overwhelmed with ammo and supplies.

And let's face facts: I've played through the entire game. I know every situation in the game, and I've been able to overcome those parts without the knife. Guess what? You can throw a million hypothetical situations, and make pointless conceptual thoughts, but the fact that I completed the game without needing the knife makes all that garbage moot. The knife is indispensible only because you can't throw it away, and it is in used in QTEs. Plus, you can use it to open boxes. But that's it. There's nothing else to the weapon, at least if you want to get through each battle as effortlessly as possible.
[quote name='Jonexe']I've seen a lot of arguements about how accuracy can give you relief of a reload or what have you, and how those say they have good accuracy ratings, but still have problems with it.[/quote] Very, very good point! ^^ My friend actually has this problem: overemphasizing the difficulty of RE4 because he doesn't shoot as well as his accuracy boasts (96%).[/COLOR][/SIZE][/FONT]

[Brasil]

[quote name='AzureWolf']I'm sorry to say, Siren, but I think he was supporting my point, not your increasingly flawed side.[/quote]By "increasingly flawed side" you mean my argument that the knife is much more useful in combat than the useless dud of a box/barrel-cutter that you're making it out to be? My argument which is the exact same stance taken by nearly every other person in this thread? The exact same stance taken by pretty much every review of RE4 that I've read? Sure...nice cheap shot there, AW, because that's all it is.

[quote]I never meant you wouldn't have to reload in combat, and as Jonexe pointed out, dropping your enemy is the time to reload. A standing enemy denotes one that is on his two feet (or his two - or four - whatever). However, this does not immediately mean that an enemy that is not standing is dead. I think you aren't shooting them or fighting them properly if you never knew that you can drop them before they die. But you can, provided you make good/smart shots (i.e., efficient use of ammo).[/quote]And again, the knife can give you breathing room quite well (in some situations, moreso than your precious Shotgun), [i]provided you know how to use it[/i]--and I think you just don't know how to use it.

What is this thinking I don't know how to drop an enemy to their knees? I'm sure I missed that potential, what with the free aim and full articulation for the target zones. And where in my posts did I ever explicitly or implicitly say that? You're trying to extract something from my posts that simply isn't there, AW. Again, nice cheap shot.

[quote]Before my figure of speech (i.e., middle of a fight), I stated "crucial points" and "monsters standing." I admit, I shouldn't have used the figure of speech if it wasn't clear what I meant beforehand. So, I will clearly state my side now: you can create an opening to reload (if you need to) more effectively and faster with smart gunshooting than with the very dispensible knife.[/quote]Again, there's this "if you need to" phrasing in your post. You will always need to reload, and it's not only limited to out-of-combat situations. And as far as the game is concerned (and I'd say it very strongly emphasizes this) when there are enemies present in any position, you are still in combat.

If you don't believe me, examine how effective the weapons are. Most of the time, they have KD power. Only a few weapons in the game will get 1-hit-kills (and the Shotgun needs to be up-close with a headshot for this to work) and even then, they have very particular situations where you can down an enemy in one shot. When you drop even a group of five to their knees (perfect example of this being the first few areas in the Castle, particularly after you run into Luis), the first will be getting up as you cap the fifth in the knee. It's almost a perfect cycle.

But the crucial point here is that enemies will still be coming at you, even after you knock the majority of the group down, and that is still a combat situation. AW, any time you need to reload when there are enemies present, whether grounded or coming at you with a weapon, is reloading in a combat situation.

[quote]As for your accuracy, get over yourself. Jonexe pointed out that accuracy is just hitting the enemy, not shooting them in the best/smartest places. You sound like you use the knife alot, which, as useless as it is, is hard to miss with.[/quote]Get over myself? lol Oh, I'm sure I'm really praising my exceptional aim here, AW. Nice cheap shot. Seriously, though, I was simply making a statement that I have better-than-your-average-bear aiming in RE4 and I still used the knife, because it's a very effective melee weapon.

[quote]Actually, it makes my point stronger. I had terrible aim, yet I was able to have more than enough ammo at every point in the game. So, if someone like me, with my terrible aim, is able to not need to reload at crucial points, and have more than enough ammo, then you, with your god-like capabilities, should be overwhelmed with ammo and supplies.

And let's face facts: I've played through the entire game. I know every situation in the game, and I've been able to overcome those parts without the knife. Guess what? You can throw a million hypothetical situations, and make pointless conceptual thoughts, but the fact that I completed the game without needing the knife makes all that garbage moot. The knife is indispensible only because you can't throw it away, and it is in used in QTEs. Plus, you can use it to open boxes. But that's it. There's nothing else to the weapon, at least if you want to get through each battle as effortlessly as possible.[/quote][center][img]http://www.otakuboards.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=22511&stc=1[/img][/center]

"god-like capabilities" Again, cheap shot. Nice little soapbox speech, too.

By the way...just how good of an aim do you need to have to be able to do damage with the [i]Shotgun[/i]? The Shotgun can blast enemies down with two, maybe three shells, so I'd hardly think having excesses of ammunition throughout the game validates your side here.

You're using a weapon that almost always guarantees some type of hit (usually a KD). I find it amusing that you have the gall to say I should get over myself, AW. After all, you [i]are[/i] the one running around with a veritable Spread weapon and thinking it somehow validates your assessment of the knife being useless.

[quote]Very, very good point! ^^ My friend actually has this problem: overemphasizing the difficulty of RE4 because he doesn't shoot as well as his accuracy boasts (96%).[/QUOTE]Yes, I can see how the game is easy when you're using the Shotgun and nothing else. You sold your pistol early on and never bought another one. You've made no indication at all that you use anything other than the Shotgun-type weapons. I can see how the game wouldn't be a challenge for you then.

If you use the Shotgun exclusively, too (which it seems that you do except for sniping, if you do snipe at all that is)...you're going to be running out of ammo very quickly. Even with the Shotgun's blast radius, if your accuracy is as bad as you say it is, you're going to be running out of ammo, but somehow, you don't? Beg your pardon, but I smell bull****.

Just play the (whole) game without selling your pistol (and without resorting to flinging buckshot everywhere) and see how the dynamics change. You're running around with a cannon while the rest of us are using a handgun. You're not exactly gauging the game on any reasonable scale there. This isn't meant to insult you, either. It's just the truth.

Only using the Shotgun is not going to give you an accurate indication of what RE4 is really like, and of course you're going to think the knife is useless, because you're not giving it a chance, because you're hyperfocused on blasting through the game at top speed, essentially. That's why your argument is faulty, AW, because you haven't been using the knife because you wrote it off early on.

EDIT: You're just arguing for the sake of arguing. Why?

[natchan]

I can't even begin to describe how much I love this RE installment. Especially since my favorite male vidoe game character (not includinf rpgs) is Leon, when I first saw an image of the updated Leon I was exstatic. I love the controls, I love the replay value; I've gone through it 2 in two weeks and I'm goin through again. I love all of my different weapons and Leon, ahem sorry about that, and its the first RE game that gave me nightmares it was so good. My favorite is to repley the knife fight between Leon and Krauser and then run on to the laser hall and watch him be all nimble and arobatic, I can do this over and over many times before I move on to other things. I really hope they make a next one that continues from that, including Leon of course, I mean they did leave it open and all. :animeblus

[Semjaza]

[quote name='Siren']EDIT: You're just arguing for the sake of arguing. Why?[/quote]

If he is, you are as well. This argument should have ended several posts ago lol.

I had a question about the Target Practice game. I've messed around with it and won a few bottlecaps, but is it just me or is the score counter a bit messed up? In some of the other versions you can play of it, I am doing really well but my score is not very high. Or at least not as high as it seems it should be. Maybe I'm crazy.

I only found the one, too. I heard there are another two places to do that in.

[2010DigitalBoy]

I am definetally going to at least rent this game. Why? Because I played a demo in which not only was the crap scared directly out of my, I also saw a woman who was pinned to a wall by a pitch fork going through her face. I was so shocked and awed (I think thats a word) that I decided I wanted it. I have a couple of problems with the gun mode, but I might just need practice.

[Viper0529]

I dont know if It is just me, but I didn't find RE4 to be scary at all. I loved the game as an shooter, but it seemed to fall short of the thriller genre it has become famous for. I must admit, that the regenerators were kinda creepy, but besides that it didn't seem that scary. The villagers made me feel like I was pumping lead into homeless people, and the El Gargante seemed to be Cave troll extras.

Am I alone on this topic, or do other people think that RE4 isn't that scary?

[color=#4B0082]Merged this with the original RE4 thread. - [i]Desbreko[/i][/color]

[AzureWolf]

[FONT=book antiqua][SIZE=2][COLOR=blue]You have to be quite the ninny to be afraid of what RE4 tosses at you (or any RE for that matter). RE has always been survival action. In terms of scary, it doesn't look like it aims to be that. Rather, it's more like a "boo!" kind of scare if it ever does manage to scare you. Very discontinuous, random, and hardly the atmospheric kind of creepy.

On the other hand, Silent Hill is the kind of scary "OMG! What's going on?! Whaa!!!!" scare you might be looking for. Of course, you gotta sometimes force yourself to immerse yourself into a game for it to work on that level, because, afterall, it's only a game. ;)[/COLOR][/SIZE][/FONT]

[Brasil]

AW, I hardly think "BOO!" is an apt description for RE4 and the franchise as a whole. There are moments of that type of terror (RE1 and the dogs through the windows, for example), but there are long hallways throughout the game with very sparse music (sometimes a long and low string instrument, or a bass).

Classifying the RE games as only a "jump out and scare you" franchise is asinine, because building tension and atmosphere through setting, shot composition, sound design, and overall art direction is one of the things the series is known for--and RE4 is no exception. RE4 is more action-oriented than previous titles, yes, but that doesn't diminish the slow build-up of tension at all.

RE4 is certainly a more subtle type of horror, because it relies more on the build-up and pacing rather than having things jump out at you. Some of the most effective moments in the game (and in the franchise itself) are when nothing is remotely close to you. The hallways are examples of this, and the village in RE4 is another. Certainly, one cannot deny the tension one feels when finding oneself in an eerie calm on the lake during the sea creature fight.

The use of sound [i]alone[/i] is what differentiates the RE games from the typical, dumbed-down, "oooh scary monsters just appeared" Devil May Cry type of formula.

[AzureWolf]

[FONT=book antiqua][SIZE=2][COLOR=blue][quote name='Siren']RE4 is certainly a more subtle type of horror, because it relies more on the build-up and pacing rather than having things jump out at you.[/quote] Oh, please. Subtle? Obvious as hell is a far more apt description. Your "shot composition" thing makes sure everyone watching knows what's about to happen, so the scare is far less. Sure, the first time you come across a "shot composition," it manages to "boo!" scare you, but after that, it's like a megaphone annoucement: "Ready your good weapon, please."

The atmosphere does jack. In previous parts, a police department is supposed to be scary? And in this one, the tension when arriving at the lake? You just gave it away! You knew something was going to happen. There was no tension. Rather, you were waiting for that something to happen. Face it, when a game takes every "no one's here, it's too quiet" situation to have something come at you, it loses its scare factor. You weren't scared or tense, and no one else was either.

RE4 is definately the most action oriented, so I can't see how that makes it also have a more subtle type of horror. Game Lesson 101: if you don't feel helpless in a game, it's that much harder to scare you. In RE4, you had a lot of control over Leon and his abilities were vast. As such, there was little that could scare you. Sure, it takes away from what little scare there was, but it made the game so much better. That's why I say it's not a horror game, and a much less a horror game than the previous installments.

RE4 is the best of the bunch because it doesn't try to scare you and does a phenomenal job at being an action game.

We can bring facts into your arguments: how many people on OB found RE (or any RE) to be scary? Asinine or not, I'm betting you'll lose again.

Last, DMC's monsters weren't supposed to be scary. XD If you thought DMC was horror, then I can fully understand why you think RE4 is as well.[/COLOR][/SIZE][/FONT]

[James]

[color=#B0251E]There's no question, though, that the majority of RE's scares come from those "jump out and frighten you suddenly" moments. I haven't played RE4, but I know that this is the case with the previous games in the series, without exception.

Silent Hill is at the other end of the spectrum. While it does have some "sudden scares", it builds fear through entirely different means; a total sense of disorientation, claustrophobia and even paranoia. It's a lot more subtle than RE most of the time, but it's also more confusing and fundamentally frightening -- in RE you are afraid of dying, in Silent Hill you're afraid of going insane.[/color]

[satan665]

I think that it still was a little scary the first time around. maybe it was just more ominous. There are a lot of Oh, Sh** moments in RE4, but not too many creepy or scary ones. You worry about whats coming next, and RE has always been good at foreshadowing stuff. Parts like crossing the lake when you just know what is going to happen, and also when you get knocked into the water; Defrosting the cold room; the microwave; the weird meat bag thing near the end.

Its a good game, and it makes you worry about whats going on moreso than scare you with the unexpected.

I think RE2 was the most scary one. Still they mostly used the now classic tricks of having things jump out at you, but it wasn't an old trick then. The Lickers in that game were the best monster in that respect. Whenever you ran into them it was like "AHHH! and then you hope that the shotgun can bring them down for you. The one way mirror in RE2 is still the most memorable PSone moment for me. I love that part.

So RE4 I'd give a 5/10 in scariness which is only good the first time around.

[silpheedpilot]

I've not yet played RE4, but because of my total lack of respect for the other Resident Evils I'll end up waiting a really long time to play them because, well, they just aren't scary. Now, like James said, Silent Hill offers a much scarier overtone.

Resident Evil = BOO!
Silent Hill = gonna getcha, Gonna getcha, GONNA GETCHA! (Ominous, suspenseful)

I'll admit that Resident Evil for the GC had a slight ominous scare to it, but nothing close to what I had expected, or even wanted. If I want scary I'll play Silent Hill or Eternal Darkness. So in short, Resident Evil isn't scary. Personal opinion.

[Brasil]

[QUOTE=AzureWolf] Oh, please. Subtle? Obvious as hell is a far more apt description. Your "shot composition" thing makes sure everyone watching knows what's about to happen, so the scare is far less. Sure, the first time you come across a "shot composition," it manages to "boo!" scare you, but after that, it's like a megaphone annoucement: "Ready your good weapon, please."

The atmosphere does jack. In previous parts, a police department is supposed to be scary? And in this one, the tension when arriving at the lake? You just gave it away! You knew something was going to happen. There was no tension. Rather, you were waiting for that something to happen. Face it, when a game takes every "no one's here, it's too quiet" situation to have something come at you, it loses its scare factor. You weren't scared or tense, and no one else was either.[/quote]
AW, if you didn't find RE4 unsettling at all, then that's not indicative of something wrong with the game. That's indicative of something wrong with you. To anyone who is remotely open to the idea of [i]pacing[/i] (as opposed to Silent Hill, which is purely constant and tangible dread), the tension-building and suspense merits of RE4 are very real. The franchise is about [i]pacing[/i]. The Boo moments are included in that, just like the moments of silence are included in that, but [i]without[/i] silence, you have nothing but explosions (nothing but DMC). Take a few courses in film studies, AW, and really pay attention to techniques of sound design.

[quote]RE4 is definately the most action oriented, so I can't see how that makes it also have a more subtle type of horror. Game Lesson 101: if you don't feel helpless in a game, it's that much harder to scare you. In RE4, you had a lot of control over Leon and his abilities were vast. As such, there was little that could scare you. Sure, it takes away from what little scare there was, but it made the game so much better. That's why I say it's not a horror game, and a much less a horror game than the previous installments.[/quote]
"I have a powerful character. Therefore, I can't be scared." Just like "I have a flamethrower; therefore, the alien can't frighten me." That's what you're saying here, AW, and that's utterly false logic. Just because you have a [i][b]Shotgun[/b][/i] (yes, I'm being obvious here) doesn't mean being out in the middle of the woods in the dead of night is going to be comfortable on any level at all. And if you're that one person who wouldn't be frightened at all, you're lying.

[quote]RE4 is the best of the bunch because it doesn't try to scare you and does a phenomenal job at being an action game.[/quote]
It doesn't need to try, because it does have very genuine disturbing sequences. How about the very first FMV when you enter the village? A police officer burned at the stake? You're telling me that wasn't the least bit unsettling?

[quote]We can bring facts into your arguments: how many people on OB found RE (or any RE) to be scary? Asinine or not, I'm betting you'll lose again.[/quote]
"Lose again"? lol Please, AW. If I was so incredibly lost in that other debate, why didn't you reply? At least replied to finish me off there? If I was so on-the-ropes, then surely it wouldn't have taken much. Like the previous thread, cheap shots are working their way into your replies.

[quote]Last, DMC's monsters weren't supposed to be scary. XD If you thought DMC was horror, then I can fully understand why you think RE4 is as well.[/QUOTE]
DMC was dumb action. That's why I mentioned it. RE isn't dumb action. It's [i]pacing[/i].

[AzureWolf]

[FONT=book antiqua][SIZE=2][COLOR=blue][quote name='Siren']"Lose again"? lol Please, AW. If I was so incredibly lost in that other debate, why didn't you reply? At least replied to finish me off there? If I was so on-the-ropes, then surely it wouldn't have taken much. Like the previous thread, cheap shots are working their way into your replies.[/quote] That's because the "You aren't playing the game right" logic was so sad, and your assumptions so erraneous, that I tossed you the bone. I felt pity for you, since you had to resort that low. I'm not going to bother with someone who says, "Oh, if it's easy, then you are playing it wrong."

So, consider it out of politeness, because I still can't stop laughing everytime I see your post.
[QUOTE]RE isn't dumb action. It's pacing.[/QUOTE]Yadda yadda yadda. So far, I've got a count of four to one, Siren. Face facts already: it's a "boo" scare and absolutely nothing else.[/COLOR][/SIZE][/FONT]

[Brasil]

[QUOTE=AzureWolf] That's because the "You aren't playing the game right" logic was so sad, and your assumptions so erraneous, that I tossed you the bone. I felt pity for you, since you had to resort that low. I'm not going to bother with someone who says, "Oh, if it's easy, then you are playing it wrong."

So, consider it out of politeness, because I still can't stop laughing everytime I see your post.[/quote]
Then reply and put me out of my misery, since I apparently have such a horrible and weak argument of if you run around with a Shotgun, you're not exactly utilizing the knife to its fullest extent and therefore your criticisms of the knife don't have a full and complete basis for evaluation.

[quote]Yadda yadda yadda. So far, I've got a count of five to one, Siren. Face facts already: it's a "boo" scare and absolutely nothing else.[/QUOTE]
The "Boo" scares come out of the pacing, AW. Study Alien. Study Hitchcock. Same fundamentals. It's [i]pacing[/i].

[quote name='Sata665']You worry about whats coming next, and RE has always been good at foreshadowing stuff. Parts like crossing the lake when you just know what is going to happen, and also when you get knocked into the water; Defrosting the cold room; the microwave; the weird meat bag thing near the end.[/quote]
That's pacing, AW. The franchise builds tension through uneasy silence then a crescendo. It's pacing.

[AzureWolf]

[quote name='Siren']Then reply and put me out of my misery, since I apparently have such a horrible and weak argument of if you run around with a Shotgun, you're not exactly utilizing the knife to its fullest extent and therefore your criticisms of the knife don't have a full and complete basis for evaluation.[/quote][FONT=book antiqua][SIZE=2][COLOR=blue]Haha, quite alright, Siren. I threw you the bone. Do you want me to say you are right? Is that what you want to hear? Will that make you stop lingering on something so flawed? Well then...

You are right, Siren. There you go. You win the argument.
[QUOTE]The "Boo" scares come out of the pacing, AW. Study Alien. Study Hitchcock. Same fundamentals. It's [i]pacing[/i].[/QUOTE] I'm not going to study movies to learn how to get scared by a game. There's an inherent flaw. You know your limits within a game, and if those limits are relatively (to the badguys) god-like, then I'm not going to get scared. I'm just not. Sorry if you feel otherwise, or that I'm "lying." XD
[QUOTE]That's pacing, AW. The franchise builds tension through uneasy silence then a crescendo. It's pacing.[/QUOTE] No, that's beating a dead horse. If you keep waiting for and using [U]every[/U] silent moment to make a move, then that's just predictability, not tension. So, when things are silent, you know that's when things are coming. Uneasy silence indicates something will happen. If there's even one badguy, you know nothing's going to happen.[/COLOR][/SIZE][/FONT]

[Brasil]

[QUOTE=AzureWolf]Haha, quite alright, Siren. I threw you the bone. Do you want me to say you are right? Is that what you want to hear? Will that make you stop lingering on something so flawed? Well then...

You are right, Siren. There you go. You win the argument.[/quote]
No, I'd like for you to obliterate my entire argument in that other thread, because you're harping on the fact that you can, so I'd like to see you do it.

[QUOTE]I'm not going to study movies to learn how to get scared by a game. There's an inherent flaw. You know your limits within a game, and if those limits are relatively (to the badguys) god-like, then I'm not going to get scared. I'm just not. Sorry if you feel otherwise, or that I'm "lying." XD[/QUOTE]
Consider the fundamental (because that was my point, not any mention of god-like villains): the pacing. Hitchcock used the same pacing that the RE franchises does: a gradual build-up with releases throughout the piece. And perhaps you [i]should[/i] study film to better understand a game and appreciate the techniques. Considering that RE4 is the most [i]cinematic[/i] of the franchise, I think a consideration to cinema is appropriate.

[quote]No, that's beating a dead horse. If you keep waiting for and using every silent moment to make a move, then that's just predictability, not tension. So, when things are silent, you know that's when things are coming. Uneasy silence indicates something will happen. If there's even one badguy, you know nothing's going to happen.[/QUOTE]
Watch Rear Window, Psycho, Alien, The Thing, Terminator, etc., and tell me you're not the least bit uneasy (read: feeling the tension) during those films. RE uses those same fundamentals.

[quote]If there's even one badguy, you know nothing's going to happen.[/quote]
Did you miss the very first villager in the game?

[Shinmaru]

First off, the arguing about "winning" and "losing" whatever debate is just really silly lol. That has no bearing on the topic whatsoever, and I'll thank everyone to be mature enough to not let the topic degrade into that nonsense.

I think that RE4 (and RE in general) does have a lot of the "BOO!" scares. I never played any of the RE games besides RE4 enough to really evaluate this, but I assume that the pacing present in RE4 is there in all of the RE games, like Siren said. I thought that RE4 did a good job of building up tension, but maybe that's just because I've not experienced the series to the degree that other people have.

However, I felt that the silent moments, cramped conditions (mostly later on in the game, of course), and darkened areas did the job that they were supposed to do. I'm not going to say that RE4 gave me a heart attack, or anything, but the game was unsettling when it was supposed to be. Maybe I just enjoyed it a bit more, because I like to immerse myself in the experience instead of thinking "Oh, here's a bit of silence, looks like there are monsters coming! :rolleyes: " If other people do that, then that's their perogative, but I don't care for that.

Or maybe I just have an overactive imagination, and it forces me to immerse myself in the game worlds more often than not lol.

[AzureWolf]

[quote name='Siren']No, I'd like for you to obliterate my entire argument in that other thread, because you're harping on the fact that you can, so I'd like to see you do it.[/quote][FONT=book antiqua][SIZE=2][COLOR=blue]Yes, I'm harping. I'm so flawed and wrong in that argument, Siren. Thank you for proving your point in a clearly not flawed manner. You win.
[QUOTE]Consider the fundamental (because that was my point, not any mention of god-like villains): the pacing. Hitchcock used the same pacing that the RE franchises does: a gradual build-up with releases throughout the piece. And perhaps you [i]should[/i] study film to better understand a game and appreciate the techniques. Considering that RE4 is the most [i]cinematic[/i] of the franchise, I think a consideration to cinema is appropriate.[/QUOTE] I said Leon was God-like, not the villains. Again, I don't care what type of build-up a movie has versus a supposedly similar game. I know what the game is capable of, and what arsenal of moves will get you through every situation. The more abilities, the more options, and therefore the less worry.
[QUOTE]Watch Rear Window, Psycho, Alien, The Thing, Terminator, etc., and tell me you're not the least bit uneasy (read: feeling the tension) during those films. RE uses those same fundamentals.[/QUOTE] Wow, I'm not wasting time watching movies for you to prove a boring point. I've seen Terminator, and I've felt the tension, but there's nothing like that in RE4. Even if that was the goal (which I doubt), [U]IT DIDN'T WORK[/U]. So, I've given you the benefit of doubt, agreed that Terminator has tension, but saw/experienced nothing of the sort in RE4. The end.
[QUOTE]Did you miss the very first villager in the game?[/QUOTE] What about him? What happened? Boss? Did he turn into something dangerous? QTE? C'mon, what happened? A cut scene with no QTE? Yeah, that last guess sounds about right.[/COLOR][/SIZE][/FONT]

EDIT: Shin, I was replying when you were. Sorry about that, heh.

[Brasil]

[quote name='AzureWolf']Yes, I'm harping. I'm so flawed and wrong in that argument, Siren. Thank you for proving your point in a clearly not flawed manner. You win.[/quote]
...you can't back-up your claim, can you?

[quote]I said Leon was God-like, not the villains. Again, I don't care what type of build-up a movie has versus a supposedly similar game. I know what the game is capable of, and what arsenal of moves will get you through every situation. The more abilities, the more options, and therefore the less worry.[/quote]
Yes, and like I said previously, just because you have a Shotgun and a very powerful kick doesn't mean you're not going to get scared (or worried) on any level. And Leon is hardly God-like, AW. One or two hits and you're dead. The weapons don't guarantee survival, and most of them have a minimal impact, in that only a handful have a guaranteed kill (otherwise just KD power), and even then, like I've said previously in the other thread, those weapons have very particular situations in order to get those 1-hit kill guarantees.

[quote]Wow, I'm not wasting time watching movies for you to prove a boring point. I've seen Terminator, and I've felt the tension, but there's nothing like that in RE4. Even if that was the goal (which I doubt), IT DIDN'T WORK. So, I've given you the benefit of doubt, agreed that Terminator has tension, but saw/experienced nothing of the sort in RE4. The end.[/quote]
I think what Shin said in his post is very relevant here:

[quote name='Shinmaru']instead of thinking "Oh, here's a bit of silence, looks like there are monsters coming! :rolleyes: "[/quote]
AW, you were too concerned with thinking "Oh, here's a bit of silence, looks like there are monsters coming! :rolleyes:" than you were with experiencing the game. I don't think that's a flaw of the game; I think that's more a personal, nit-picky flaw.

Both Shin and I ran with the game and the tension parts worked immensely well. Friends of mine are on their fifth playthroughs and still get just as frightened as they did the first time they played it. You need to be open to the experience, and you just aren't (like a few other people *wink wink*)...but don't fault the game for that.

[QUOTE]What about him? What happened? Boss? Did he turn into something dangerous? QTE? C'mon, what happened? A cut scene with no QTE? Yeah, that last guess sounds about right.[/QUOTE]
[quote name='AW']If there's even one badguy, you know nothing's going to happen.[/quote]
There was one "badguy" there, and something definitely happened. Every review that I've read praised that part because they didn't expect that to happen. So, it seems to me that there is a level of unpredictability in the game, particularly in the moments of eerie silent tension. Subsequent playthroughs, there's not so much surprise, but that's the case with every game (including Silent Hill), so I don't think that's a legitimate crit.

[Charles]

[quote]AW, I hardly think "BOO!" is an apt description for RE4 and the franchise as a whole. There are moments of that type of terror (RE1 and the dogs through the windows, for example), but there are long hallways throughout the game with very sparse music (sometimes a long and low string instrument, or a bass).[/quote]

This is true to some extent. Unfortunately, those long empty halls rarely built tension and were merely a segue to the cheap, scripted scares that the Resident Evil series has been notorious for. Generally, the player was forced to wander empty halls after eliminating all of the enemies merely because they had to backtrack and retrieve some obscure item for the purpose of completing an asinine puzzle. If the games were pacing towards boredom, then they succeeded quite well. It's not as if enemies could spontaneously surprise you at any time. In [I]Silent Hill[/I], you find yourself wandering pitch-black halls with a flashlight. You never know what's going to come out at you. In Resident Evil, you explore well-lit empty halls, and after you play through the game once, you know exactly when that dog is going to jump through that window or when that zombie is going to bust a door down. Those are "Boo" moments, my friend. You're not scared. You're not helpless. You jump because a loud noise suddenly broke the half hour you just spent arranging some stupid paintings.

[quote]Classifying the RE games as only a "jump out and scare you" franchise is asinine, because building tension and atmosphere through setting, shot composition, sound design, and overall art direction is one of the things the series is known for--and RE4 is no exception. RE4 is more action-oriented than previous titles, yes, but that doesn't diminish the slow build-up of tension at all.[/quote]

Actually shot composition rarely contributed to the fear when you could [B]hear[/B] the zombies groaning nearby. And how the hell is there a slow build-up of tension? Within the first thirty seconds you're fighting off a mob of enemies and it continues that pace throughout.

[quote]RE4 is certainly a more subtle type of horror, because it relies more on the build-up and pacing rather than having things jump out at you. Some of the most effective moments in the game (and in the franchise itself) are when nothing is remotely close to you. The hallways are examples of this, and the village in RE4 is another. Certainly, one cannot deny the tension one feels when finding oneself in an eerie calm on the lake during the sea creature fight.[/quote]

Oh, do you mean the eerie calm that happens directly after you see said monster emerge and devour a corpse? I sure didn't anticipate it attacking me seconds later. lol

[quote]The use of sound alone is what differentiates the RE games from the typical, dumbed-down, "oooh scary monsters just appeared" Devil May Cry type of formula.[/quote]

No, sound has nothing to do with it. [I]Devil May Cry[/I] is just a different style of action game. The fact that Leon isn't nearly as maneuverable or overpowered as Dante is the key difference. The point of Devil May Cry is pulling off stylish combos. Resident Evil 4's purpose is survival. That's all there is to it.

[quote name='Siren]AW, if you didn't find RE4 unsettling at all, then that's not indicative of something wrong with the game. That's indicative of something wrong with you. To anyone who is remotely open to the idea of [i]pacing[/i] (as opposed to Silent Hill, which is purely constant and tangible dread), the tension-building and suspense merits of RE4 are very real. The franchise is about [i]pacing[/i]. The Boo moments are included in that, just like the moments of silence are included in that, but [i]without[/i'] silence, you have nothing but explosions (nothing but DMC). Take a few courses in film studies, AW, and really pay attention to techniques of sound design.[/quote]

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Um, HOW ABOUT [I]NO![/I]

I'd say that Resident Evil 4 definitely has a pacing curve--but it leads [I]away[/I] from generating scares throughout. That's not to say that there aren't moments of suspense or tension. It would be utterly ludicrous to undertake that argument. However, the general pacing of the game is one of action and brutality. As Leon moves through the game he acquires a heavy arsenal that could wipe out a small army. Nearly every room overflows with legions of antagonists whose remains dissolve into copious amounts of ammunition. There are moments when an unseen enemy will lunge at Leon, instigating a startle effect, but the general theme of Resident Evil 4 seems to be balls-to-walls, thrilling, non-stop excitement. It's all about gratuitous, brutal, spectacular violence. Otherwise, Leon would remain as helpless as he is at the outset of the game.

There are rarely moments of foreboding violence. The only tension that exists stems from the game's frantic pacing. Furthermore, the entire last portion of the game plays out exactly like an action movie. I reference the [spoiler]chopper portion[/spoiler] as a clear example.

And, although Resident Evil 4 has terrific sound, I wouldn't say that it lends effectively to the game's scare factor. The moments of silence don't last nearly long enough to achieve that affect. The soundtrack does admittedly borrow heavily from [I]Silent Hill[/I], which is obviously a positive quality, but unlike that aforementioned title, Resident Evil 4 never forces you to listen to it. It's mostly subdued under the sounds of heavy gunfire. I can't say that Capcom uses audio in this title to induce psychological scares either. Especially after playing through [I]Silent Hill[/I] and [I]Eternal Darkness[/I]. That is, Resident Evil 4 doesn't use audio cues to play tricks on the player or flare paranoia--it's very straightforward just like the action onscreen.

[quote]"I have a powerful character. Therefore, I can't be scared." Just like "I have a flamethrower; therefore, the alien can't frighten me." That's what you're saying here, AW, and that's utterly false logic. Just because you have a [i][b]Shotgun[/b][/i] (yes, I'm being obvious here) doesn't mean being out in the middle of the woods in the dead of night is going to be comfortable on any level at all. And if you're that one person who wouldn't be frightened at all, you're lying.[/quote]

Your logic here is self-defeating and faulty. Consider for a moment, the implications of traveling through a stark, wooded area with only a combat knife and pistol combination in hand, while being pursued by overwhelmingly powerful foes. Now, compare that scenario to the situation Leon is placed in: he's equipped with a bevy of ridiculously over-powered weapons that only increase in their effectiveness as his mission progresses [I]and [/I] he has an assortment of insanely useful healing items at his disposal. Factor in his powerful hand-to-hand abilities that [B]easily[/B] cause an enemy's head to explode--and you ain't got scary.

[quote]It doesn't need to try, because it does have very genuine disturbing sequences. How about the very first FMV when you enter the village? A police officer burned at the stake? You're telling me that wasn't the least bit unsettling?[/quote]

It's disturbing to be sure. Leon is relatively helpless at this point. But, the game definitely doesn't continue that trend. You can't use the first ten minutes of the game to build a solid argument that holds up for a twenty hour experience.

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