Gaming Resident Evil 4

[AzureWolf]

[quote name='Siren']...you can't back-up your claim, can you?[/quote][FONT=book antiqua][SIZE=2][COLOR=blue]If that's the fastest way to finally make you let it go, sure, we'll go with that.
[QUOTE]Yes, and like I said previously, just because you have a Shotgun and a very powerful kick doesn't mean you're not going to get scared (or worried) on any level...[/QUOTE] A difference of opinion, possibly even a difference in weapon selection, knife boy.
[QUOTE]AW, you were too concerned with thinking "Oh, here's a bit of silence, looks like there are monsters coming! :rolleyes:" than you were with experiencing the game. I don't think that's a flaw of the game; I think that's more a personal, nit-picky flaw.[/QUOTE] Wow, this is your knife argument all over: sorry for thinking logically. I should have played like one of the zombies: ever predictable and like clockwork. Please, convince me to be scared and I'll be scared. Your hypothetical arguments are getting boring and circular, btw.
[QUOTE]Both Shin and I ran with the game and the tension parts worked immensely well. Friends of mine are on their fifth playthroughs and still get just as frightened as they did the first time they played it. You need to be open to the experience, and you just aren't (like a few other people *wink wink*)...but don't fault the game for that.[/QUOTE] *yawn* I can pretend to have 200 friends too, but let's leave the count with those on OB, since you have to register and confirm that you exist before you can post and have your voice heard. ;) That's five to two, Siren.
[QUOTE]There was one "badguy" there, and something definitely happened. Every review that I've read praised that part because they didn't expect that to happen...[/QUOTE] :rolleyes: Ok, I'll be willing to give you that one since you tried so hard, but even then, that falls into my "only the first time it works" category. I'm just kind of shocked that no one else thought him reaching for something was fishy. I guess that's me thinking logically again.[/COLOR][/SIZE][/FONT]

EDIT: Charles, this was too funny and true:
[QUOTE]You jump because a loud noise suddenly broke the half hour you just spend arranging some stupid paintings.[/QUOTE] Very well stated, haha. XD I'm glad RE4 doesn't have as much of that.

[Brasil]

[quote name='AzureWolf']If that's the fastest way to finally make you let it go, sure, we'll go with that.[/quote]Finally.

[QUOTE]A difference of opinion, possibly even a difference in weapon selection, knife boy.[/QUOTE]Play with the knife and the game dynamics will change drastically, and it won't be as easy as you've said it is. Simple as that.

[QUOTE]Wow, this is your knife argument all over: sorry for thinking logically. I should have played like one of the zombies: ever predictable and like clockwork. Please, convince me to be scared and I'll be scared. Your hypothetical arguments are getting boring and circular, btw.

*yawn* I can pretend to have 200 friends too, but let's leave the count with those on OB, since you have to register and confirm that you exist before you can post and have your voice heard. ;) That's five to two, Siren.[/QUOTE]To run with the game and allow yourself to be immersed (being open to the experience) is hardly playing like one of the zombies. You don't have to be mindless and slow to get drawn-in to something, and RE4 is no exception.

[quote]:rolleyes: Ok, I'll be willing to give you that one since you tried so hard, but even then, that falls into my "only the first time it works" category. I'm just kind of shocked that no one else thought him reaching for something was fishy. I guess that's me thinking logically again.[/QUOTE]Again with the cheap shots. Note that we are only shown what he's really doing when we get that close-up shot of [spoiler]his hand grabbing the axe[/spoiler]. Then we cut back to Leon for the reaction shot. If you were able to predict it, good for you. You get a cookie. But it's not broadcasted on any level.

[quote=Charles]This is true to some extent. Unfortunately, those long empty halls rarely built tension and were merely a segue to the cheap, scripted scares that the Resident Evil series has been notorious for.

Generally, the player was forced to wander empty halls after eliminating all of the enemies merely because they had to backtrack and retrieve some obscure item for the purpose of completing an asinine puzzle. If the games were pacing towards boredom, then they succeeded quite well. It's not as if enemies could spontaneously surprise you at any time. In [i]Silent Hill[/i], you find yourself wandering pitch-black halls with a flashlight. You never know what's going to come out at you.

In Resident Evil, you explore well-lit empty halls, and after you play through the game once, you know exactly when that dog is going to jump through that window or when that zombie is going to bust a door down. Those are "Boo" moments, my friend. You're not scared. You're not helpless. You jump because a loud noise suddenly broke the half hour you just spend arranging some stupid paintings.[/quote]You're exploring a mansion whose inhabitants have died from a lethal toxin released in the building. There were some attempts made to contain the threat (lockdowns), but eventually everyone succumbed. Why wouldn't you be running through empty hallways? For that matter, why wouldn't the lights still be on? I don't think the scientists exactly had a chance to make sure they unplugged the toaster and turned off the oven before they died.

Also, I think your point here actually defeats your argument instead of helping it. If Resident Evil were to take place in the darkened, scary, "haunted" mansion (like Silent Hill's areas) it would be relying even more heavily on a cliche...and cliches are bad. Think about it.

In RE, you're exploring a well-lit and empty mansion, slowly learning of horrific genetics experiments gone horribly, horribly wrong, and finding very little traces of [i]living[/i] "survivors" anywhere. Instead of finding a "live" scientist in his bedroom (and his journal explains he locked himself inside), you find his walking corpse...and the lights are on.

Maybe it's just me, but I find that to be a far better use of setting than the "OMG the dark is all around me! I can't see!" use of setting in Silent Hill. In some respects, Silent Hill actually [i]more[/i] depends on the cliches. Just consider the use of setting and lighting. RE uses "normal" (I use quotes because of what I explained to you earlier today...PSX graphics and such) lighting, while Silent Hill settles for the cliched "dark and haunted house."

Charles, we've both taken courses with Denise Gess. Think about what she'd say if you or I opened with "The abandoned mansion we took refuge in was even darker than the stormy night that bellowed outside." We both know she'd take that pen and cross that sentence out.

And like I also explained earlier, play any horror game a few times through and you're going to lose that fright effect...including Silent Hill. I find it odd that RE is so heavily criticized for this while the Silent Hill franchise suffers from the same exact problem with repeated playthroughs and it doesn't even get so much as a mention for being just as guilty as RE in that area.

[quote]Actually shot composition rarely contributed to the fear when you could [b]hear[/b] the zombies groaning nearby. And how the hell is there a slow build-up of tension? Within the first thirty seconds you're fighting off a mob of enemies and it continues that pace throughout.[/quote]Actually, it does contribute. Shot composition doesn't exclusively refer to what you [i]see[/i]. It also encompasses what you [i]don't[/i] see. It's the viewfinder that filmmakers use. It's the frame for the shot. When you hear something that's coming from somewhere off-camera, you're going to be wondering three things:

1) What is that?
2) Where is that?
3) Is it dangerous?

The tight, constricted camera angle is a technique used in cinema to highten tension, especially the extremely tight shots like you'd find in In Good Company (the film is a perfect example of this).

And you can find tight shots like this throughout the games (or shots that function like this), even in the opening camera angle to the first RE game. It's a high-angle shot that heightens the emotional impact of the game, because it establishes the scale and mood for the game, one of isolation in a larger, alien environment that is devoid of life.

Similarly, in RE2, when you're about to encounter the Licker, there's one shot that peers in through the window as you enter the room. Consider that you don't get that camera angle when you walk back to the door. There's a reason for that. The Licker isn't looking at you anymore.

There's an incredible attention to detail when it comes to placing those camera angles. It's not arbitrary, and it's not a plot device.

And just so this also bears relevance to RE4...think about how the camera behaves. Think about how the game is presented. Widescreen. Panoramic. Even when you're fending off the villagers, think about when you hear something behind you.

They could have stuck with pre-established camera angles, or even created a camera system that functions more akin to Devil May Cry, in that you can see everything around you...but they didn't. Why?

Because they wanted a very particular type of framing, one that gave you a very specific viewfinder. So when you're fighting villagers, you're still seeing it in a frame, a more fluid one, but still a frame. It is shot composition...no matter where you are in the game, no matter what you're doing...it's still shot composition.

Like I explained earlier today, now you see why I'm bringing cinema (and pacing techniques of cinema like those of Alien and Hitchcock) into this discussion: because it's utterly, entirely, and undeniably relevant. The RE franchise are cinematic games, and like I'm explaining to AzureWolf, who [i]still[/i] denies the link, and who [i]still[/i] outright [i]refuses[/i] to consider the point, because RE4 [i]is[/i] a playable film, we need to consider it in cinematic terms, which I've been doing very steadily and consistently through this thread.

[quote]Oh, do you mean the eerie calm that happens directly after you see said monster emerge and devour a corpse? I sure didn't anticipate it attacking me seconds later. lol[/quote]How about the eerie calm as the sea creature submerges and prepares to charge at you from a different direction each time?

[quote]No, sound has nothing to do with it. [i]Devil May Cry[/i] is just a different style of action game. The fact that Leon isn't nearly as maneuverable or overpowered as Dante is the key difference. The point of Devil May Cry is pulling off stylish combos. Resident Evil 4's purpose is survival. That's all there is to it.[/quote]Sound has everything to do with it. You don't hear silence or low, moan-like strings in DMC. You hear rock music with gothic overtones, sometimes a bit muted.

And again, that's my point. Dante is so overpowered that nothing stands up against him. Virtually everything that the game throws at you can be defeated in a few sword swipes. This is not the case with RE4...because even your most powerful weapons only have KD power, like I explained earlier today.

[quote]Um, HOW ABOUT [i]NO![/i][/quote]You forgot to add "you crazy Dutch bastard."

[quote]I'd say that Resident Evil 4 definitely has a pacing curve--but it leads [i]away[/i] from generating scares throughout. That's not to say that there aren't moments of suspense or tension. It would be utterly ludicrous to undertake that argument. However, the general pacing of the game is one of action and brutality. As Leon moves through the game he acquires a heavy arsenal that could wipe out a small army. Nearly every room overflows with legions of antagonists whose remains dissolve into copious amounts of ammunition. There are moments when an unseen enemy will lunge at Leon, instigating a startle effect, but the general theme of Resident Evil 4 seems to be balls-to-walls, thrilling, non-stop excitement. It's all about gratuitous, brutal, spectacular violence. Otherwise, Leon would remain as helpless as he is at the outset of the game.

There are rarely moments of foreboding violence. The only tension that exists stems from the game's frantic pacing. Furthermore, the entire last portion of the game plays out exactly like an action movie. I reference the [color=#000000]chopper portion[/color] as a clear example.

Your logic here is self-defeating and faulty. Consider for a moment, the implications of traveling through a stark, wooded area with only a combat knife and pistol combination in hand, while being pursued by overwhelmingly powerful foes. Now, compare that scenario to the situation Leon is placed in: he's equipped with a bevy of ridiculously over-powered weapons that only increase in their effectiveness as his mission progresses [i]and [/i]he has an assortment of insanely useful healing items at his disposal. Factor in his powerful hand-to-hand abilities that [b]easily[/b] cause an enemy's head to explode--and you ain't got scary.[/quote]But even those high-powered weapons still do not guarantee 1-hit kills (the rocket launcher is the only exception, and then the secret weapons after you beat the game a few times), only KD. When there is an opportunity for a 1-hit kill, they are very particular circumstances.

Like I explained earlier to you, Flash grenades weren't in your Inventory, and they take up room. And remember the usefulness of the Flashes. The headshot tentacle creatures (however many there are in a room) die with one Flash grenade.

Now you see why I'm not running around with every weapon in the game. Because the Flash grenades are probably the best grenade in the game, because they're so potent against what is undeniably one of the deadlier enemies in the game.

[quote]And, although Resident Evil 4 has terrific sound, I wouldn't say that it lends effectively to the game's scare factor. The moments of silence don't last nearly long enough to achieve that affect. The soundtrack does admittedly borrow heavily from [i]Silent Hill[/i], which is obviously a positive quality, but unlike that aforementioned title, Resident Evil 4 never forces you to listen to it. It's mostly subdued under the sounds of heavy gunfire. I can't say that Capcom uses audio in this title to induce psychological scares either. Especially after playing through [i]Silent Hill[/i] and [i]Eternal Darkness[/i]. That is, Resident Evil 4 doesn't use audio cues to play tricks on the player or flare paranoia--it's very straightforward just like the action onscreen.[/quote]I would actually say that sound is effective to the scare factor of the game. The most obvious example is the fights with the prisoners. If you make noise, they will start swiping. I think it's one of the best uses of sound I've seen in a long time, because you have to resist every urge to run-n-gun, because if you do, the enemy will attack. Otherwise, they more or less meander about. Perfect example of how sound builds tension--both silence and sound, come to think of it.

[quote]It's disturbing to be sure. Leon is relatively helpless at this point. But, the game definitely doesn't continue that trend. You can't use the first ten minutes of the game to build a solid argument that holds up for a twenty hour experience.[/quote]Coughing up blood. "Eggs have begun to hatch." Regenerators. Village Chief. Salazar (in human form). I'd think the game certainly has more than one or two disturbing and unsettling moments, and far more than AzureWolf is claiming.

[Charles]

You knew it was coming. I told you that you were playing a losing hand.

[quote]You're exploring a mansion whose inhabitants have died from a lethal toxin released in the building. There were some attempts made to contain the threat (lockdowns), but eventually everyone succumbed. Why wouldn't you be running through empty hallways? For that matter, why wouldn't the lights still be on? I don't think the scientists exactly had a chance to make sure they unplugged the toaster and turned off the oven before they died.[/quote]

There's no need to summarize the story. We've both taken numerous writing courses. Consider your audience. :p

More importantly, your attempt at wit fails. I understand that the mansion isn't exactly going to be teeming with life. Nor do I see a problem with wandering empty halls to a certain extent. Especially in the right context. Of course there shouldn't be monsters in every room. On the other hand, how scary are those empty halls after you've spent hours re-visiting the same [I]exact[/I] ones backtracking for something mundane like an Eagle's Crest or sheet music? You're not completing interesting puzzles (unless inserting a shied key into a lock with a shield insignia is your idea of difficult) or surviving. You're just enduring repetitive fetch quests through the same boring painted, static backdrops (or looping FMV if we're talking about the remake) again and again. How is that building tension? How is it scary? It's just artificially lengthening the story.

As for your toaster comment--well, the scientists sure had enough time to make sure that every door was perfectly closed. All of the beds were neatly made. The furniture was set up just right. The toilets were even flushed. And I'm so sure that a mansion inhabited by scientists would have shotguns and grenade launchers replete with flame rounds. And if so, then why was no effort made to procure such items in a desperate time of need? You can't apply logic to this and hope to succeed at wit.

All I'm saying is that it would have been cool if you either had to restore power to the mansion or more of the lights weren't working. Hell, with all those closed doors you would think that more of them would have yielded to dark rooms in which you would have to physically go in and hit a light switch.

[quote]Also, I think your point here actually defeats your argument instead of helping it. If Resident Evil were to take place in the darkened, scary, "haunted" mansion (like Silent Hill's areas) it would be relying even more heavily on a cliche...and cliches are bad. Think about it.[/quote]

Hahahahahahahahahaha--:takes in deep breath*--hahahahaha! Alex--flesh eating zombies [I]aren't[/I] a cliche'? And, Resident Evil [I]does[/I] supposedly take place in a darkened, scary, "haunted" mansion. Just look at it from the outside in the opening cinematic. lol

Resident Evil [I]is[/I] a cliche'. It's supposed to play out like a B-movie.

[quote]In RE, you're exploring a well-lit and empty mansion, slowly learning of horrific genetics experiments gone horribly, horribly wrong, and finding very little traces of [i]living[/i] "survivors" anywhere. Instead of finding a "live" scientist in his bedroom (and his journal explains he locked himself inside), you find his walking corpse...and the lights are on.[/quote]

In the first game, that angle succeeds somewhat. It's just too bad that you didn't encounter anyone slowly turning into a zombie instead of merely reading about it. Seeing someone undergo the metamorphosis would have been much more frightening than reading a document and having him predictably spring out of the closet at you. I think it would have inserted me into the storyline more had I witnessed the mutating effects of the virus rather than hearing about it off-hand. The degeneration of humanity would have been represented much more efficiently. As it stands, the gameplay isn't affected by the storyline much. You don't lead survivors around in search of a cure who could unpredictably transform at any moment. I could just as easily say that the zombies evolved from wicked frogs and it wouldn't matter.

And, as the storyline continues it only gets worse. How frightening is this same exact scenario when it's presented in three successive games? It only grows convoluted and silly.

[quote]Maybe it's just me, but I find that to be a far better use of setting than the "OMG the dark is all around me! I can't see!" use of setting in Silent Hill. In some respects, Silent Hill actually [i]more[/i] depends on the cliches. Just consider the use of setting and lighting. RE uses "normal" (I use quotes because of what I explained to you earlier today...PSX graphics and such) lighting, while Silent Hill settles for the cliched "dark and haunted house."[/quote]

It's not a haunted house. Have you ever played Silent Hill? It's a form of hell on earth that appears as a desolate town. People are drawn there by fate for things they've done in their past. The premise of Silent Hill 2, for example, is spooky when the main character gets a letter from his dead wife inviting him to Silent Hill.

I've never been a huge Silent Hill fan but in terms of gameplay, it's infinitely more spooky than the Resident Evil titles. Feeling your way around pitch black halls, heeding the intense screeching of your radio as your only warning, with only a board in hand is more atmospheric and fear inducing than the situations Resident Evil places you in. Resident Evil, as it stands now, is about nothing but spectacularly gratuitous violence. It's not about the scare anymore--it's about upgrading that grenade launcher and fighting that next screen-filing boss. Whereas, Silent Hill builds atmosphere through psychological hallucinations, sound, environment, lighting, and character.

[quote]Charles, we've both taken courses with Denise Gess. Think about what she'd say if you or I opened with "The abandoned mansion we took refuge in was even darker than the stormy night that bellowed outside." We both know she'd take that pen and cross that sentence out.[/quote]

So what does this have to do with anything? lol

Resident Evil is essentially like that. What would she say if I had my characters spout lines like "You were almost a Jill sandwich!" Or, "Is--this--Chris's---blood?" Almost every line is so bad they're good [I]because[/I] they play off of cliche'd B-movie acting and scripting. Resident Evil embraces B-movie influence--it's where its roots are. I can't believe you're seriously arguing that the series takes itself seriously.

[quote]And like I also explained earlier, play any horror game a few times through and you're going to lose that fright effect...including Silent Hill. I find it odd that RE is so heavily criticized for this while the Silent Hill franchise suffers from the same exact problem with repeated playthroughs and it doesn't even get so much as a mention for being just as guilty as RE in that area.[/quote]

Here's the problem. Resident Evil doesn't lose its scare-factor after the first playthrough. In the case of the first game and the fourth, they lose their sense of horror [i]during[/i] the first playthrough. Once you've become acquainted with fighting the same weak creatures with over-powered weaponry, there's little to frighten you. Resident Evil 2 through Code Veronica just weren?t' scary at all. I reference Code Veronica's opening cinematic or even the idea of Leon rescuing the president's daughter in the last installment to my aforementioned point that the series has become all about action.

[quote]Actually, it does contribute. Shot composition doesn't exclusively refer to what you [i]see[/i]. It also encompasses what you [i]don't[/i] see. It's the viewfinder that filmmakers use. It's the frame for the shot. When you hear something that's coming from somewhere off-camera, you're going to be wondering three things:[/quote]

Obscuring the view in Resident Evil isn't effective because you can hear your enemies off-screen. They don't sneak and they're stupid. Even the hunters. If I hear a Hunter plodding around off-screen I can merely switch to the item screen, equip a pistol, fire it to attract him on-screen, and then switch to a powerful weapon to dispatch him.

Zombies are slow and their loud moaning gives them away. No worries there.

And, if worse comes to worse in either of these scenarios, it's quite easy to just exit the room since your enemies are incapable of following you.

[/quote1) What is that?[/quote]

Just listen and you'll know.

[quote]2) Where is that?[/quote]

Fire your gun. They'll come to you.

[quote]3) Is it dangerous?/quote]

What [i]is[/i] dangerous when you're armed to the gills with grenades and shotgun shells? Especially when most of the enemies you encounter move at a snail's pace.

[quote]The tight, constricted camera angle is a technique used in cinema to highten tension, especially the extremely tight shots like you'd find in In Good Company (the film is a perfect example of this).[/quote]

But, this isn't a film. It's a video game with static, almost entirely uninteractive backdrops. The shots aren't as tight as what you'd find in a film either so that the game can be playable. You don't see any real emotion on your character and the view isn't constricted to mostly just the character as it would be in a film. In horror movies, at least the characters show a sense of fear too. Even in Resident Evil 4 there's none of that. Leon gets attacked with an axe and he sees carnage ensuing outside the cabin so he mutters "****." Oh boy.

Also, unlike a horror film, healing items are in healthy distribution so you're allowed to be reckless to a certain extent. Lastly, the obscured camera angles weren't effective from a gameplay standpoint which is why Capcom did away with them in the first place. They pretty much annoyed people instead of scaring them, since unlike in a film, people had to control the characters through the disorienting scene changes.

[quote]And you can find tight shots like this throughout the games (or shots that function like this), even in the opening camera angle to the first RE game. It's a high-angle shot that heightens the emotional impact of the game, because it establishes the scale and mood for the game, one of isolation in a larger, alien environment that is devoid of life.[/quote]

And then you start playing, and it becomes annoying. lol

Also, I refer to you to the concrete point that you're overpowered and the monsters are inadequate at best. That defeats your point entirely. In a horror film someone dies if their throat is ripped out by a zombie. In Resident Evil, you merely have to use a mixed red and green herb compound. If more enemy attacks had a finality to them, as the chainsaw lunatic does in Resident Evil 4, and should the enemies be capable of following you from room-to-room, the camera angles could have been somewhat effective.

[quote]Similarly, in RE2, when you're about to encounter the Licker, there's one shot that peers in through the window as you enter the room. Consider that you don't get that camera angle when you walk back to the door. There's a reason for that. The Licker isn't looking at you anymore.[/quote]

It's a fairly cool scene but it sort of contradicts the theme of your argument since the situation is so cliché' itself. Many movies have used this technique in the past, such as the [I]Jaws[/I] films, for example.

[quote]There's an incredible attention to detail when it comes to placing those camera angles. It's not arbitrary, and it's not a plot device.[/quote]

And it's not scary. It also makes the gamer feel removed from the experience which is something I'm surprised you've ignored. You keep referring to the Resident Evil games in terms of films but video games are supposed to engross the player and immerse them into the experience. Video games are supposed to make you feel like you're the center of the action, like you're really there. Horror films typically don't do that and neither did the Resident Evil games when they used fixed camera angles. That was a problem that was detrimental to the scare factor.

[quote]And just so this also bears relevance to RE4...think about how the camera behaves. Think about how the game is presented. Widescreen. Panoramic. Even when you're fending off the villagers, think about when you hear something behind you.[/quote]

Haha, I'm the one that brought this up to you in class!

Indeed the camera is much more effective at immersing the player into the experience. I won't deny that. And, the game is somewhat frightening. But, when you're ten hours in (the typical time a Resident Evil title ends mind you) and you've battled off legions of the same enemies over and over again, it's just not going to hold the same appeal as it did in the opening hours. It's still extremely fun but it's not frightening.

[quote]They could have stuck with pre-established camera angles, or even created a camera system that functions more akin to Devil May Cry, in that you can see everything around you...but they didn't. Why?[/quote]

See above. I'm not arguing against Resident Evil 4's camera. I've told you as much personally and you're not using my same exact words to argue against me for some reason. lol

[quote]Because they wanted a very particular type of framing, one that gave you a very specific viewfinder. So when you're fighting villagers, you're still seeing it in a frame, a more fluid one, but still a frame. It is shot composition...no matter where you are in the game, no matter what you're doing...it's still shot composition.[/quote]

Again, you're wasting your time. I have no qualms with the camera.

[quote]Like I explained earlier today, now you see why I'm bringing cinema (and pacing techniques of cinema like those of Alien and Hitchcock) into this discussion: because it's utterly, entirely, and undeniably relevant. The RE franchise are cinematic games, and like I'm explaining to AzureWolf, who [i]still[/i] denies the link, and who [i]still[/i] outright [i]refuses[/i] to consider the point, because RE4 [i]is[/i] a playable film, we need to consider it in cinematic terms, which I've been doing very steadily and consistently through this thread.[/quote]

It's obvious that the Resident Evil titles are heavily influenced by film. Mikami has reiterated that in countless interviews. This approach has both its positive and negative effects. Resident Evil 4 has started to capitalize more on the positive while still allowing the game to be just that, a video game that immerses the player instead of making them feel removed. Hopefully subsequent releases will continue the trend.

[quote]How about the eerie calm as the sea creature submerges and prepares to charge at you from a different direction each time?[/quote]

The calm only lasts for about five seconds. lol

[quote]Sound has everything to do with it. You don't hear silence or low, moan-like strings in DMC. You hear rock music with gothic overtones, sometimes a bit muted./quote]

That's because DMC isn't about survival. It's not about surviving from one section to the next. It's about being invincible, kicking ***, and looking cool while doing it. I don't see why DMC even has to enter the discussion to this extent. Sound is just a minor component of that. In the first [I]Devil May Cry[/I] there were occasional bouts of silence, or soft, horror-type music. Again though, the key difference between the games is the maneuverability of Dante and the fast pacing of the game.

[quote]And again, that's my point. Dante is so overpowered that nothing stands up against him. Virtually everything that the game throws at you can be defeated in a few sword swipes. This is not the case with RE4...because even your most powerful weapons only have KD power, like I explained earlier today.[/quote]

Play Devil May Cry 3.

[quote]You forgot to add "you crazy Dutch bastard."[/quote]

:catgirl:

[quote]But even those high-powered weapons still do not guarantee 1-hit kills (the rocket launcher is the only exception, and then the secret weapons after you beat the game a few times), only KD. When there is an opportunity for a 1-hit kill, they are very particular circumstances.[/quote]

They may not guarantee 1-hit kills but they're sure effective at combating the enemies to the point where they're helpless, lying on the ground as easy targets.

[quote]Like I explained earlier to you, Flash grenades weren't in your Inventory, and they take up room. And remember the usefulness of the Flashes. The headshot tentacle creatures (however many there are in a room) die with one Flash grenade.[/quote]

Doesn't this support my argument that Leon is overpowered and contradict yours?

[quote]Now you see why I'm not running around with every weapon in the game. Because the Flash grenades are probably the best grenade in the game, because they're so potent against what is undeniably one of the deadlier enemies in the game.[/quote]

Then what is there to be afraid of?

[quote]I would actually say that sound is effective to the scare factor of the game. The most obvious example is the fights with the prisoners. If you make noise, they will start swiping. I think it's one of the best uses of sound I've seen in a long time, because you have to resist every urge to run-n-gun, because if you do, the enemy will attack. Otherwise, they more or less meander about. Perfect example of how sound builds tension--both silence and sound, come to think of it.[/quote]

The sound is effective because it borrows heavily from Silent Hill for its soundtrack. I also loved the ramblings of the villagers until I heard the same clips from them over and over again. I'll say that initially the sound plays an important role, and continues to make the game atmospheric throughout, but doesn't build fear on the same level as the games I mentioned in my previous post, Eternal Darkness and Silent Hill.

[quote]Coughing up blood. "Eggs have begun to hatch." Regenerators. Village Chief. Salazar (in human form). I'd think the game certainly has more than one or two disturbing and unsettling moments, and far more than AzureWolf is claiming.[/QUOTE]

I agree with you. Even when combating the villagers becomes stale from an emotional perspective, there are numerous moments that prevent the game from becoming boring or completely unscary. I think what we have here is AzureWolf completely understating the impact of fear in the game while you have a tendency overstate it.

[satan665]

Holy overanalysis Batman!

Its good to see posts about good games last this long, but do you really think about all this garbage you learned in some class every time you play RE4 or other videogames? Have fun and play.

[Final Remix]

[COLOR=Blue][FONT=Comic Sans MS]Now, ladies and gentlemen, for my second post:

[quote]It's just too bad that you didn't encounter anyone slowly turning into a zombie instead of merely reading about it. [/quote]
Yes, you are correct. Unfortunately, you do [i]not[/i] get to experience someone's ultimate psychological demise. Until Leon's confrontation [spoiler]with the man in the party-room in the RPD [/spoiler]of Resident Evil 2.

Also, adding to this idea of the degeneration/mutation of the zombies, remember the Crimson-Head zombies added in REmake. Zombies were no longer whisked away when you traveled three rooms away. They stayed there, mutating further until, when the player walks by/near, the zombie would spring up, roar, and attempt a running surgical removal of said player's face.

[quote]I've never been a huge Silent Hill fan but in terms of gameplay, it's infinitely more spooky than the Resident Evil titles.[/quote]
Indeed. SH is [i]spookier[/i] than Resident Evil.

[quote]Feeling your way around pitch black halls, heeding the intense screeching of your radio as your only warning, with only a board in hand is more atmospheric and fear inducing than the situations Resident Evil places you in.[/quote]
Yes, SH is more about the psychological standpoint of the environment, and the fact that the only demi-human creatures in the game are blood-smeared, swollen nurses who twitch as if being electrocuted.
Resident Evil, for all intents and purposes, is a Zombie-Game. It's there for you to play through a forboding location, fight off myopic enemies that don't feel pain, and work your way through a story which quickly turns into a do-or-die situation, where the only objective is survival.
RE leaves you with a hightened adrenaline level, depending on how you play it. (see next quote/response)
SH leaves you (save for the fourth game...ugh) with a feeling of "I feel tainted and filthy. If anyone needs me, i'll be upstairs soaking in disinfectant, and rubbing alcohol"

[quote]It's not about the scare anymore--it's about upgrading that grenade launcher and fighting that next screen-filing boss. [/quote]
[quote][quote]Like I explained earlier to you, Flash grenades weren't in your Inventory, and they take up room. And remember the usefulness of the Flashes. The headshot tentacle creatures (however many there are in a room) die with one Flash grenade.[/quote]
Doesn't this support my argument that Leon is overpowered and contradict yours?
[quote]Now you see why I'm not running around with every weapon in the game. Because the Flash grenades are probably the best grenade in the game, because they're so potent against what is undeniably one of the deadlier enemies in the game.[/quote]
Then what is there to be afraid of?
[/quote]
Depends on how you play. There is no right or wrong way to play...You can go ahead, and be rambo, ditching the handgun for the blacktail, etc.; or, being an infinite fool (or someone with guts and cash), you buy the Mine-Thrower on your first encounter with that specific aussie because of the addition of splash damage.
[i]My[/i] first play, I got the Punisher upgraded like crazy, avoided the rifle (it was never needed in the previous games, why now?), and held off on the Riot Gun, saving up for the next crowd-pleaser without knowing for sure if it'd exist. I never saw a need for the big-guns, until the enemies started wearing body-armor and helmets, and carried stun-sticks. To me, that fact alone was enough to keep me on my toes, especially since in the Pro. difficulty mode, one actually connecting hit from a village enemy could easily knock Leon's health into the low yellow zone.

[quote]Leon gets attacked with an axe and he sees carnage ensuing outside the cabin so he mutters "****." Oh boy.[/quote]
Remember, this is [i]not[/i] leon's first encounter with this kind of situation. His first day on the job on the RPD landed him smack-dab in the center of Raccoon city, next to a flaming oil-tanker that just minutes before had a human driver. If that doesn't de-sensitize someone from an axe-wielding man, and a group of angry, 'normal' people, It's fairly hard to say what would.

[quote]You're just enduring repetitive fetch quests through the same boring painted, static backdrops (or looping FMV if we're talking about the remake) again and again. How is that building tension? How is it scary? It's just artificially lengthening the story. [/quote]
I do agree with you on this issue. In the original games, I disliked the fact that to get into a interrogation room, you had to first unlock the parking garage, spin a statue, present a zombie's head as a sacrifice to the gods, produce a bowl of boneless, fried-chicken, and light a couch on fire.
SH suffers from this, too... [i]especially[/i] the fourth installment. That is the only RE/SH game i've been unable to finish, simply because I was getting bored out of my mind.

I feel this issue is easily summed up in the idea that while the RPD inhabitants were still alive, a conversation would go something like this:
="Hey Jim, hwo ya doin'?"
~"Pretty good. I might need to go to the john in a few hours, so i'm gonna get started on unlocking the bathroom now. Remember to clock me out, ok?"
="No problem. Here, I've still got the Lion-Crankshaft from the last time I went. That should save you a few minutes."
[/FONT][/COLOR]

[Charles]

[QUOTE=satan665]Holy overanalysis Batman!

Its good to see posts about good games last this long, but do you really think about all this garbage you learned in some class every time you play RE4 or other videogames? Have fun and play.[/QUOTE]


[CENTER][IMG]http://img173.exs.cx/img173/5572/shup1tg.gif[/IMG][/CENTER]

I honestly don't mind when he references class lessons if he thinks it's going to flesh out his argument more. lol

I'd say that it's even more silly to post a disrespectful jab at those who are putting major effort into having a deep discussion even if you don't agree with the tactics being used. If everyone adopted your philosophy, there wouldn't be a need for a forum in the first place because we would all be just playing the games instead of discussing them. And, really, the most enjoyable part about seeing a film or movie is discussing it after it's over. If you want to apply the knowledge you've acquired through class (if it's relevant to the discussion) then I don't see a problem. It's certainly not garbage either.

Anyway, welcome to OtakuBoards Final Remix. I liked your post a lot. I think that it is quite a problem that this isn't Leon's first encounter with unnatural enemy threats. Just as it was in past installments of the Resident Evil series. The inclusion of ordinary people was probably one of the aspects I loved most about Resident Evil Outbreak. That, and the constant chase of the monsters. Although the game was underwhelming because of the technical limitations present when playing online, including the lack of voice chat and ridiculous load times (without the hard drive) I thought the idea of fear was more so present than in most other Resident Evil titles.

I think that's another advantage that something like Silent Hill or Fatal Frame holds over Resident Evil when discussing characters. They feature apparently helpless individuals stuck in hopeless situations instead of soliders skilled in survival training or whatever.

[Final Remix]

[COLOR=Blue][FONT=Comic Sans MS][QUOTE]I think that's another advantage that something like Silent Hill or Fatal Frame holds over Resident Evil when discussing characters. They feature apparently helpless individuals stuck in hopeless situations instead of soliders skilled in survival training or whatever.[/QUOTE]
Quite agreed. Though, 4RE is still my favorite of the series, since Leon no longer moves like a tank with glass treads. I welcome the inclusion of "A: Jump out", "A: Kneckbreaker", and other such inter-active options. I also like the addition of Mercenaries to the game. My favorite aspect is the fact that you're in one location, set weapons, a 1:30 time-limit, and all 35 enemies regenerate for a solid 10 minutes (yeah, i've gamesharked the countdown timer to see how long). Also, Nothin' says loving like a man [spoiler]who's running animation is an instant kill from a dual-bladed chainsaw that's on fire. AND the addition of the ultimate blonde-badass, Wesker...complete with silenced pistol, sunglasses, and his Code:Veronica (shudders...) thrust-punch.[/spoiler]

Wanna have some serious fun, though? Play through the game on Pro. with only a Red-9, the stabilizer, and follow (loosely) the laws of the original RE:
Healing Spray is bad.
Beat the game in one sitting, no saves, no deaths in under 5 hours.
Don't let your little presidential concubine take any damage if not playing as her.[/FONT][/COLOR]

[satan665]

[QUOTE=Charles][CENTER][IMG]http://img173.exs.cx/img173/5572/shup1tg.gif[/IMG][/CENTER]

I honestly don't mind when he references class lessons if he thinks it's going to flesh out his argument more. lol

I'd say that it's even more silly to post a disrespectful jab at those who are putting major effort into having a deep discussion even if you don't agree with the tactics being used. If everyone adopted your philosophy, there wouldn't be a need for a forum in the first place because we would all be just playing the games instead of discussing them. And, really, the most enjoyable part about seeing a film or movie is discussing it after it's over. If you want to apply the knowledge you've acquired through class (if it's relevant to the discussion) then I don't see a problem. It's certainly not garbage either.
[/QUOTE]

Sure mine was pretty much a brainless post, but the arguement about this game or RE in general isn't going anywhere. It seems like everyone likes the game, but its getting really nitpicky. Azurewolf played RE4 with a different style than Siren and they never were going to agree about the knife and that was fine. I just think that something so subjective being argued for so long is getting pointless.

Also looking back on the first resident evil is going to be biased because they made us so sick of running around looking for keys etc by putting it in four games without much change. The first game was atmospheric and scary at the time, maybe mostly because nobody had done anythig like that. Graphics and sound were never good enough on console games to make anything scary before the PS1 era systems. Only after RE2 were we all sick of the crappy control, jump out scares and weird camera because it never improved. It was good while it lasted.

Yeah, and you smell!

[Zeta]

I enjoyed this game immensely. A redeeming game for the Gamecube for me in my mind. I myself find the system to be worthless, but that is just my opinion. Anyways?

I really enjoyed the cut scenes. Very good looking and crisp, much more so than Halo, but that is a different story. ^_^;; The graphics in game are very nice too. I really enjoyed the setting of this game. The small Spanish village and castle was a very welcome change from the usual hi-tech laboratory setting.

The merchant was an unexpected change for me. He was really cool of course, but he just didn?t have that RE feel for me. I preferred the picking up of weapons around the ground to the buying them. That has the more traditional RE feel to it. But again, that is just me. The upgrading of weapons was really nice as well, especially when it came time to fight Gigantors (I think that is its name?) and others. The merchants shooting game was a very nice break from the usual running around corridors and shooting up parasitic guys though. Sadly, I am horrible at it. >_> I only have won one prize so far, though I honestly haven?t played it too much since I beat it sadly.

I also very much enjoyed the dodge aspect added. I found that too cool, especially when you are fighting that marine dude (forgot his name). That was one very awesome scene.

My biggest gripe(s) with the game was the diminished role of Umbrella. [spoiler]Yes I know Ada and the marine dude were working for them and trying to get samples of the parasite and what not[/spoiler] I myself wish they had a much larger role. I also missed the presence of the T/G/ whatever letter it is now virus. That is what made RE for me and I missed it sorely. L

But overall it was a very enjoyable game.

[James]

[color=#B0251E]Well, I finally just bought RE4 a couple of days ago. I'm not yet finished, but I thought I'd finally post my thoughts as a long time RE fan.

First, a couple of points. One, Resident Evil is all about the "boo". Know your history - and make comparisons between Resident Evil and Silent Hill. This is not to say that RE has no tension and that the "quiet moments" have no meaning, but the game's primary goal has always been to make you suddenly jump out of your chair with surprise. Silent Hill does have these moments, but they are not the focus (as they are in RE). Silent Hill scares you by what it doesn't show, not what it does show. In Silent Hill you are not afraid of dying; you are afraid of going insane.

Resident Evil 4 really does nothing new in this regard. That is to say, it's still about the "boo payoff" for the most part. The only major exception I've come across so far is the very first village area, prior to the castle. Being hunted by an entire village is a very different experience - there are plenty of sudden "boo" moments (ie: when you turn around and someone is standing right there, or when a window smashes behind you and people come pouring in), but I think the fear is primarily generated by a very simple "[i]Run for your life![/i]" type of scenario. It really gets the adrenaline going, which is awesome.

So it's a different type of fear in general, I think. Remember [spoiler]the part where you're with Sera in the two-storey house and you have to fend off the villagers at night?[/spoiler] That moment largely defines what Resident Evil 4 is all about, I think. It's fear, but it's not the same type of fear as in the previous games...or even Silent Hill. It's a combination of claustrophobia and quick, desperate action. It's pretty intense, to say the least.

Anyway, I did enjoy all of the Resident Evil games (sans some of the spinoffs - and I thought Code Veronica was extremely lazy). But in terms of the "main series" (ie: RE1, 2, 3 and 0), I really did enjoy them. Although they all followed the same core blueprint, they were still each unique. I still think Resident Evil 3: Nemesis is underrated - in some respects, it's the first hint of what RE4 offers (ie: a 28 Days Later type of feel).

Resident Evil 4 really does fix a lot of things with the series, while simultaneously offering some great new ideas. The new camera systems works wonders for the most part - although in some cases all you can see is Leon's head, which can make things a bit annoying. Generally, though, it's a vast improvement.

The combat system is truly amazing and I love the fact that RE4 focuses on combat with simple puzzle solving complimenting it nicely. I [i]love[/i] that there are less illlogical puzzles in this game. Although puzzles still exist, they are mostly a pretty good mix of old and new and they never seem to become too annoying or repetitive.

In general there are just a ton of random little ideas that work well. The whole dodging/QTE style system works really well - it's not used [i]too[/i] often but it's used in all the right places. It spices things up a bit. The fact that the game is divided into chapters and that it lets you continue from checkpoints is a [i]big[/i] plus. In the old games, there is nothing more annoying than playing for an hour or more and not saving for whatever reason, only to die and have to do it all over again. It's nice that the pacing is a little more forgiving. It doesn't necessarily make the game easier as such, but it does make it a whole lot less frustrating and a whole lot more playable.

What don't I like? Well...there are a few niggling things. One, the game is very selective about environment interaction. Sometimes you [i]can't[/i] jump down from a ledge, even if you should be able to. Sometimes you can't break windows, even though windows in the previous area were all breakable. Explosions don't seem to have any impact on the environment, other than smashing the occasional window. These things aren't hugely important, but there are times when Resident Evil 4 hints at Half-Life 2 levels of environment interaction - but you keep thinking "Oh, right...I [i]can't[/i] do that". And I find that disappointing on some level.

I'm also somewhat disappointed that you can't purchase any ammunition. Sure, I can see why you can't. And during times when I was low on ammo, it was nice to be able to use my brain and play more carefully - to actually work out what ammo I needed and where I should use less or more. That strategic element was actually good. But nevertheless, it was disappointing that ammunition was sometimes overabundant and othertimes quite rare.

However, I really did like the inventory management system a lot. The whole thing was just a lot nicer to use than in previous games. It also gives you a greater sense that you are in control - you can really personalize how you play.

I think I noticed a debate earlier on about the knife's usefulness.

In my own experience, the knife was invaluable. Firstly, I always used it to break open boxes and jars and so on - using ammo to do that seems wasteful, to me (and this is coming from someone who did run very low on ammo at various parts of the game).

In combat, the knife is generally not useful [i]however[/i], there were occasions where I deliberately used it. In one part of the game I was low on ammo, so I used the handgun to drop an enemy (shot in the leg) or I'd use it to fire at their arm (so that they drop their weapon). I'd then move in and use the knife to kill them, rather than using live ammo. The end result was that I saved ammo and was still relatively safe, because I was able to essentially disarm them ahead of time.

Of course, everyone does play differently. I can see how some people would never want to use the knife, but I tend to be a relatively prudent player at times...at least, as much as possible. And that does lead me to conserve when I can (although I have to admit, my brother ended up with a lot more ammo than me - he was far more clever in when to use and when not to use ammunition).

Anyway, so far, I'm really enjoying it. Brilliant title. It really does revitalize the Resident Evil franchise. I'm kind of excited about the idea of an RE with this type of gameplay, set within an urban environment. Just imagine - exploding cars, shattering windows, empty streets at night...very interesting. Whatever they cook up with RE5, I'm sure it'll be awesome, especially if it builds on what RE4 has achieved.[/color]

[Foshi Foci]

This game is the perfect translation of survival horror to the 21st century. It is incredibly fun to play. And offers some awesome extras once it is beaten. None of the RE games have been scary(well, except for the Nemesis); so its little suprise to see that this one isn't scary either. That doesn't take away from the fun though as your body will be filled with adrenaline the entire time.

[Krycifer]

This has to be the best Gamecube game so far!This game is incredible.Another good thing is the inventory system.Its better being able to carry more things.Buying weapons from the merchant is also fun in a way.Me and my friend are currently trying to beat the giant ogre.But if antone can give me a tip on an easy way to beat him it would really help.Me and my friend use the TMP and sniper rifle.Is this a good strategy or a bit stupid.But putting all that aside this is a great game I recomend playing this game if your a Resident Evil fan.But why put it only for Gamecube if it's coming out for the Playstation 2?

[Foshi Foci]

PS2 version will most likely suck. Ports of games made for one system don't work as well on other systems.
To defeat the Ogre just shoot it a bunch with sniper rifle, a magnum, or a shotty until it kneels over and then jump on its back and tap the indicated button to kill its las plagas. Rince and Repeat until it dies. Oh, and watch out if it picks up the trees.

[satan665]

[quote name='Krycifer']This has to be the best Gamecube game so far!This game is incredible.Another good thing is the inventory system.Its better being able to carry more things.Buying weapons from the merchant is also fun in a way.Me and my friend are currently trying to beat the giant ogre.But if antone can give me a tip on an easy way to beat him it would really help.Me and my friend use the TMP and sniper rifle.Is this a good strategy or a bit stupid.But putting all that aside this is a great game I recomend playing this game if your a Resident Evil fan.But why put it only for Gamecube if it's coming out for the Playstation 2?[/quote]


If you haven't managed it already, the shotgun is a better option than the TMP. Actually just don't bother with the TMP at all.

If you can do it, aim for the ogre's head for every shot. You will beat it a lot easier that way. Use the rifle when you are far away and the shotgun when close. Handgun if you run out of ammo.

[TheShinje]

[size=1][color=crimson] Well, this week I was able to get my hands on a copy of Resident Evil 4, and already it's blown my misconceptions out of the water.

When I heard about Resident Evil 4, I scoffed, and laughed at the notion that some villagers could be more freaky than zombies, I thought it was a lame Idea to do away with the zombies and completely overhaul the storyline, boy was I wrong.

Having the villagers, or ganados, with the parasites, is a refreshing change to the series. The whole scenario where you've got to fend off villagers as they try to infiltrate the house is action packed and at the same time, eerily creepy, they're not zombies, but at the same time, it still borrows heavily from the zombie films genre in some regards. That whole scene just reminded me of Zombie movies.

I am impressed by the level of A.I the ganados have, I kick down the ladders, they raise them up again, quite intuitive really. Thye make a much better bio-weapon than mindless zombies. I'm guessing the [spoiler] parasite is the work of a remnant faction of Umbrella...[/spoiler]

Another thing i'm really surprised about, is the knife, I saw it's usefuilness described here, but I didn't realyl grasp how the knife could be all that different from the old, useless, combat knife from the 1st few games. It has certainly saved my skin on a number of occasions, especially hwen ammo is sparse. But the greates memory I will have with this knife is defeatign the Ogre with it, with 1% health remaining!

I'm not talking about merely slashing the parasite on it's back either, I actually bought it to it's knees every time with that knife, I wouldn't had I known ammo would work, but I mistook it for a boss my friend was telling me about where the most useful weapon against him is the knife. I don't think I have met up with that boss yet, because I also tried the knife on the big-bearded dude, much to my demise. :(

I really enjoyed battling the [spoiler] sea monster at the lake.[/spoiler] It was quite a challenge to get used to the harpoon controls, but in the end, i grasped them pretty well. It felt like Jaws Vs. Ahab. :p

After that, I backtracked to get the Thing reference and moved on.

[spoiler] Right now, I am stuck at the castle area where you rescue Ashley from the holds in the wall and then fend off potential kidnappers. I lost her to one of them when I couldn't get a clear shot, dangit!

I will try again later, because it seems that my game froze up when she got carried off, in fact, my game seems to always freeze when she get's abducted or killed. ahs that happened to anyone else? [/spoiler]

With all I've seen so far, I'm definately buying RE4 when I next get the chance to.
[/size][/color]

[Stuart]

[QUOTE=Shinji][size=1][color=crimson]
I'm not talking about merely slashing the parasite on it's back either, I actually bought it to it's knees every time with that knife, I wouldn't had I known ammo would work, but I mistook it for a boss my friend was telling me about where the most useful weapon against him is the knife. I don't think I have met up with that boss yet, because I also tried the knife on the big-bearded dude, much to my demise. :(
[/size][/color][/QUOTE]

[FONT=Trebuchet MS]I can't say I recall such a boss... But then again I also brought down the bosses with ammo (Despite how much of short supply I was in). I'd also purchase an Rocket Launcher before a majority of boss battles, so I never had the thrill of trying to survive. There are some future boss battles that don't allow you to cheap out on the rockets, and it makes the battles all the more intense.

Much ammo can be saved by using the knife. One method I commonly used was to allow a group of Los Ganados to close in on me, shoot one of them in the face using the pistol, and then take the chance to use the kick feature- Which will also knock down all Ganados standing nearby- That's when I whip out my knife, and begin slashing. It's a "kick em while they're down" kinda deal, and it's easy on the ammo.

The knife is also said to be much more efficient in the up coming Nintendo DS version of Resident Evil.

There's just one thing that I can advise for the part you're currently at:
Shoot them in the head. Oh, and a rifle makes things all the more simple. :smirk:

Oh, and about your game freezing up... Is it the Playstation 2, or Gamecube version? I've had the Gamecube version since it's release date, and I've never had any techincal problems. [/FONT]

[Veritas]

[size=1][color=darkred]Oi, this is probably one of my favorite games ever. I love playing it, It is very well put together, and the graphics are excellent. I actually don't own the game, I have a PS2, but haven't had the money to go buy the game, because I bought a new snowboard. Anywho, my friend has it on game cube and I basically just play it over there.[/color][/size]

[size=1][color=darkred]As far as the giant ogres go I personally prefer using the Handgun. It fires faster compaired to all of the shotguns, as well as not being effected by range as bad. The shot gun, sniper combo is ok, but unless you have the Semi-auto rifle exclusived it really doesnt fire that fast. If needed I will switch to the TMP or my Striker but I like my Red9, even though I hate how it looks. [/color][/size]

[size=1][color=darkred]Shinji, I am not positive but I think the boss your friend was refering to is [spoiler]Krauser, you fight him on the second disk. He has like this parisite arm/wing shield/spear. But I found it was easiest to just assault him with the knife, because his wing blocks all bullets. Also just wait till you get to the regenerators[/spoiler] they creep me out the most I think, either them or the dogs in the castle.[/color][/size]
[size=1][color=#8b0000][/color][/size]
[size=1][color=#8b0000]And If you want to conserve ammo, shooting them below the knee causes them to drop to thier knees sometimes. This allows for a kick when your in the village, and a suplex in the castle. You can knife them to thier knees as well if you really want to be stingy, but it doesnt work as well in my opinion.[/color][/size]