To Feign the Unimaginable...

[Godelsensei]

[COLOR=Gray][SIZE=2][FONT=Courier New]To begin with, I ask that no one take this post as an insult in any way.

*ahem*

Now, recently, I read an article--well, it was more of an editorial, but still--about an incident which occured during a flight on American Airlines (I believe this is the name of the airline, excuse my lack of worldliness_ _U).

From what I gathered, the pilot of the plane left the cockpit, and addressed the passengers personally. He instructed all of them that were Christians to raise their hands, and then began to rant and curse those who did not.

I find this disgusting. Not only did many of the passengers report being almost sure that they were under attack from a terrorist, but they honestly believed they were going to be killed.

This has really been bothering me since I read it, as I simply cannot see why a person would do something like this. Even if he had no plans to bring any of the passengers to harm, the emotional stress and trauma imposed--even on the children aboard, at seeing their parents freeze up with fear!!--is simply, well, revolting.

This is not a matter of religion: this is a matter of civility. I find it despicable that people use their beliefs to try and justify their putting others through pain of any sort. This applies for anything you claim to stand for, relgion-wise or not.

And then there is the issue that some people just disserve to be shot. Sorry for sounding harsh, but if any one thinks that they are at liberty--for any reason--to do something like that when they are in a position of authority, and when there are hundreds of people dependant on them to get home safely (alive!), then they have something else coming. At least I think they should.


I just needed to get that out in a semi-structured blurb. *phew*[/FONT][/SIZE][/COLOR]

[Semjaza]

Some people suffer from insanity and psychotic delusions. I don't know how much more could be said about it heh.

[Boba Fett]

[color=green]While I agree that this was neither the time nor the place for this pilot to mention his faith, you?re mistaken.

This pilot did in no way attack non-Christians. He simply recommended that they discuss their faith with Christian passengers. I draw my information from a reputable news source, CNN. The article link is below.

[url]http://www.cnn.com/2004/TRAVEL/02/08/airline.christianity/index.html[/url][/color]

[AnonymousSource]

That angers me... I don't actually know if this is made up or if it's true... but it disgusts me...

People like that are the ones who give Christians bad names!

Christian's are supposed to witness to others and try to spread the religion... THROUGH LOVE... I believe everyone should be a christian just because I think it's right, but I also believe in freedom of religion.

Call me crazy, but I think cursing people is no way to let them see God's love...

---------------------------------
edit: I didn't see Boba post, woops.

[Godelsensei]

[QUOTE=Boba Fett][color=green]While I agree that this was neither the time nor the place for this pilot to mention his faith, you?re mistaken.

This pilot did in no way attack non-Christians. He simply recommended that they discuss their faith with Christian passengers. I draw my information from a reputable news source, CNN. The article link is below.

[/color][/QUOTE]

[COLOR=Gray][SIZE=2][FONT=Courier New]*ahem*

I did state that this was an editorial, no? The woman who writes these things tends to rant in a way that lacks structure in its entirety--but she brings up some good points. The piece of writing in question implied that he attacked the non-Christian passengers.

Nevertheless...dude...*dou*[/FONT][/SIZE][/COLOR]

[Boba Fett]

[QUOTE=Godelsensei][COLOR=Gray][SIZE=2][FONT=Courier New]*ahem*

I did state that this was an editorial, no? The woman who writes these things tends to rant in a way that lacks structure in its entirety--but she brings up some good points. The piece of writing in question implied that he attacked the non-Christian passengers.

Nevertheless...dude...*dou*[/FONT][/SIZE][/COLOR][/QUOTE]

[color=green]Excuse me? I really don?t care where you got this article, nor do I care about the author?s biases.

What you posted [b]simply isn?t true[/b]. Here on OtakuBoards, people are responsible for the accuracy of the information they post. I?d bet a hundred posts off my post count that fallacies and slander are not looked upon kindly by the administration here. This article is an example of both.[/color]


[quote name='Godelsensei][COLOR=Gray][SIZE=2][FONT=Courier New]From what I gathered, the pilot of the plane left the cockpit, and addressed the passengers personally. He instructed all of them that were Christians to raise their hands, and then began to rant and curse those who did not.[/FONT][/SIZE'][/COLOR][/quote]

[color=green]It says right here that the pilot cursed and ranted. He did neither. This piece of writing implies nothing.

I?d advise you disassociate yourself from it.[/color]

[Drix D'Zanth]

Religious propaganda is everywhere, and will be everywhere. Christians, Jews, Muslims, Buddhists, all want to share their faith. Perfessionally, it could have resulted in a tense situation. Sure, it offended people. Christianity and the ideas behind it are fairly exclusive if you think about it, and extremely hard to understand without understanding the relgion itself. He's exercising free speech.

Thank you for pointing out Godelsenei's mistake, Boba. If he were "cursing people" then this pilot would be sinning- not Christian at all. It seems as though he was not.

I think I'll change the direction of this thread a bit. How do you feel about Christians sharing their faith? What do you think about public displays of faith? Do you think free speech should be restricted in this sense?

I would be interested in your thoughts.

[Boba Fett]

[color=green]As far as Christians sharing their faith with me personally, it?s a truly wonderful thing. Not being a religious person, I?m fascinated by the beauty that is present in many churches. Catholicism in particular is fascinating and I enjoyed my religion classes immensely while I was in Catholic schools. Faith also has played a monumental role in history. To understand religion is often to understand the cause of major historical events. The Middle East today is an excellent example of this, understanding Islam makes the whole region easier to understand.

I think that Christians should share their faith, but not like this pilot did. People don?t get on planes to receive sermons. Especially considering current events, people are already rather nervous on airplanes. It?s not the right place to share faith. What this pilot did isn?t appropriate and he should be punished accordingly.

Public displays of faith are fine by me. I?m not sure how the rest of you feel, but I don?t mind displays of faith. When in church or youth groups with friends, I?ll stand or kneel out of respect for their beliefs. I just don?t pray, as that?d be hypocritical and insulting because of my lack of faith.

I don?t think that religion has a place in schools or public places, but by the same token people should be able to wear religious themed clothing and jewelry while in public places. If a student wants to pray or worship during lunch or other free time while in school, that should be the student?s prerogative. It?s difficult to balance people?s first admendment rights with the seperation of church and state.

Hopefully, the USA will be able to strike that balance and walk the thin line without upsetting too many people.[/color]

[Jokopoko]

[COLOR=TEAL][SIZE=1][B]I think I'll go with Drix on this and change the flow of the thread before major flaming begins :sweat:

[U][I]Christians sharing their faith[/I][/U]
Being a christian myself I'm all for sharing the faith and spreading the word of God etc, but I believe there is a time and place for it. I'm currently in an 'Alpha for youth' group which is basicly a christian youth group that aids those of the age 16-18 in finding thier faith and what they believe [From a non denomination PoV] and thats the kind of enviroment I believe is best for the spreading of said faith, when the people around you wish to hear more and are actually interested in what you are saying.

[U][I]Public displays of faith[/I]/[/U]
I'm not sure what your getting at there but I'm assuming it's something like showing your faith in some way I.E. preaching it or something like that. I don't really agree with that for the reasons I stated in the previous bit about onlt telling those who want to listen to what your saying and such.

And I firmly believe that free speech should remain just that, free and should never have any limitations on it lest it become something different.[/B][/SIZE][/COLOR]

[Maully]

[color=green]I feel that everyone should feel free to share their faith with anyone. That said I also think that they should be mindful of the reactions of others. I do not think that free speech should be limited on matters such as these. That would just weaken the freedom of religion part of the amendment. Feel free to practice whatever religion you want, just don't talk about it.

I am a Christian, but not of the in-your-face sort. I don't mind learning about other religions, in fact I find it rather interesting. I am rather grounded in my faith, so you are not going to convert me, as I am not trying to convert you. I'm not a big fan of the Fire and Brimstone set. Those that tell people they are going to hell if they do not convert to something this instant. Faith is different for each and every person, and it is deeply personal. I respect people with a faith that is deep enough to just have to share it with others. I find religious discussion interesting and highly charged, sometimes rather volatile. Everyone has a different take, and often they refuse to respect the position of others.

As for Public displays of religion, I'm fine with them. People have the right to wear or say what they want, just don't be offended when people ignore you. I say that because they will. People tend to block things out they don't want to take notice of, like a difference of opnion or faith. It's such a touchy subject so much of the time, that a lot of people just don't want to deal with it. If the faith felt by a person is strong enough that said person want to display it, more power to them. [/color]

[Shinken]

Personally, I'm against the whole 'spread-the-faith' thing, because 1) It's their choice to worship whatever they want, and 2) Who says we're right in doing so? That's just my opinion, and I'm a Christian. I have no problem with discussing it, but telling them that it's the one and only way, etc... It rubs me the wrong way.

[Godelsensei]

[quote name='Shinken']Personally, I'm against the whole 'spread-the-faith' thing, because 1) It's their choice to worship whatever they want, and 2) Who says we're right in doing so? That's just my opinion, and I'm a Christian. I have no problem with discussing it, but telling them that it's the one and only way, etc... It rubs me the wrong way.[/quote]

[COLOR=Gray][SIZE=2][FONT=Courier New]I must say: I do concur.

I don't care what you believe in, and I don't care what you do. But don't tell me about it, and don't even dare using your beliefs as an excuse to bring another human being to harm. [/FONT] [/SIZE] [/COLOR]

[AnonymousSource]

OK... I haven't read the other posts so my views may be different then others.

I've come to find, in my experience, that "preaching" the christian faith does nothing! I'm more for leading by example, but that's more just personal preferance on how to get the job done...(which, sadly, I'm not very good at!)

Teaching the religions as manditory or something like that, I don't agree with... Not because of this seperation of Church and State thing (which shouldn't apply at all, because that's in the constitution which only applies to congress and only congress, which it says in there as well...) but because if christianity is taught there... then so should Islam, buddhism(sp?), and etc. And no offense to them, but I don't agree with those religions, and therefore don't want me or any of my future kids to have those religions pounded into them... and I'm sure non-christians of other faiths would agree with me!

I believe sharing your faith is a great thing... but in school is not so much a good idea...
(I'm lost... I think I had a point to this...)

[Transtic Nerve]

A pilot does not need to do that. Whatever it was that he did. All a pilot needs to do is fly a plane, thats his job, anything else is not what he should be doing, therefor I would have wanted this man fired for his actions if I were on the plane. If he wanted to spread the word, he should become a priest or whatever, not a pilot. That is no place to talk about religion. If I were on that plane I would have been offended to the highest degree.

[James]

[font=Verdana][size=2][color=dimgray]In terms of what the pilot did...I think he's there to be a pilot. That's his job. I doubt that I'd be offended if he wanted to enter into a discussion about religion with me (were I a passenger), but I'd simply be worried about him keeping his hands on the controls. lol[/color][/size][/font]

[font=Verdana][size=2][color=#696969]Sharing faith is another question I think. It really depends on the circumstances. I mean, I don't think I'd be too happy if someone stopped me in the street and started preaching to me. I obviously didn't go out and [i]choose [/i]to be bombarded in that way. But if I were in a religious education class or something like that, that's fine. [/color][/size][/font]

[font=Verdana][size=2][color=#696969]I remember back in primary school, we had a really awesome religious education teacher. She taught us about Christianity, Buddhism, Islam, ancient Roman religions, ancient Egyptian religions, historical myths, etc etc. All in all, it was extremely well-rounded. We learned about the different beliefs that various cultures have developed over the course of human history and how they differ from one another. [/color][/size][/font]

[font=Verdana][size=2][color=#696969]So for me, personally...that was a really great experience. We weren't being preached to -- instead, we were being given a huge amount of historical information. And then, as individuals, it would obviously be up to us to choose whatever we believe in. I think this is the right approach. It was for me, anyway.[/color][/size][/font]

[font=Verdana][size=2][color=#696969]In general, I'm certainly not against anyone discussing or displaying their faith. But at the same time, I don't think that one religion or another should be used as a tool for the denial of civil rights or the acceptance of discrimination. I'm quite happy for people to have religion, but I also strongly adhere to the idea of Government being a non-religious body.[/color][/size][/font]

[font=Verdana][size=2][color=#696969]I'm also not one of those people who is immediately offended by a discussion of religion. For me, religion isn't just a black and white issue. Religion is as much a cultural thing as a purely spiritual thing, in my view. This is why I'm quite happy to celebrate holidays like Christmas or Easter. These holidays hold a personal significance to me and their original intentions and messages are universal, really. So I don't deliberately block them out just because I don't always agree with specific elements of religion.[/color][/size][/font]

[font=Verdana][size=2][color=#696969]Anyway, that's my somewhat rambly response I guess.[/color][/size][/font]

[TheShinje]

[font=Century Gothic][size=2]I'm all for people sharing their faiths in public and whatnot, I am a Christian myself amd I liek to share my beliefs with people, so they understand me, faith in God is a pretty big part of my life.[/size][/font]

[font=Century Gothic][size=2]Having said that, I do not agree with what this pilot did, there is no need to go "sharing" the faith amongst those who are there simply to go somewhere else. A sermon should be something you have a choice on, being on a plane you can hardly decide to walk away. eg, If someone politely asked me to resist the temptation to share, I would as there is no use in preaching to someone who doesn't want to hear it.[/size][/font]

[font=Century Gothic][size=2]Professionaly, I'd be surprised if this pilot keep his job. [/size][/font]

[Corey]

[quote name='Shinken']Personally, I'm against the whole 'spread-the-faith' thing, because 1) It's their choice to worship whatever they want, and 2) Who says we're right in doing so? That's just my opinion, and I'm a Christian. I have no problem with discussing it, but telling them that it's the one and only way, etc... It rubs me the wrong way.[/quote]

[size=1][color=#2F4F4F]This in no way meant to offend, but this...

[list][i]but telling them that it's the one and only way, etc... It rubs me the wrong way.[/i][/list]

...proves you aren't a [i]devout[/i] Christian. If you were, once again not meaning to offend, then Christianity would be [i]The Only Way[/i].

Not being a religous person my self, I find what he did pretty wrong. He needs to fly the plane, not preach. In all honesty, I feel he should be fired. If someone has more thought assigned to their religion than they do their job, unless their job happens to be religion, there is something wrong.[/size][/color]

[IceWolfEyes]

I've never had a problem with discussing different religions. Learning more about others never hurt anyone. However, cornering people and preaching to them is a bad idea.

First off: it can be classified as harassment. These people were trapped in an enclosed area with no possible escape.

Second, Nothing constructive will occur. The cornered people will be offended and will completely ignore any and all conversation starters. Well, except for sympathetic ears..."How dare he!", "What nerve!" etc. They probably just got set even deeper into their personal religious choice.

Third, Why? Why would you do this? Unless he happened to be a zealot (in which case he really shouldn't be flying planes; too many people to preach to), there is no sane excuse.

And on the topic of flaunting religious nic-nacs; big deal. Everyone shows off what they believe in. Could be Jesus, could be football, could be witty sayings.

Although, I do wish certain people would use more taste when dressing in the morning. There is nothing that says "I love being Christian and being on the good side of the Big Guy" then a big, gaudy diamond-covered gold cross. Which of the 7 sins is Greed? *shrugs*.

[G/S/B Master]

:flaming: If a pilot cursed at me for not being a Christian (i'm a buddhist), I would tell him stick a bible up his ***** and do his job.:flaming:


[quote=AnonymousSource]Christian's are supposed to witness to others and try to spread the religion... THROUGH LOVE... I believe everyone should be a christian just because I think it's right, but I also believe in freedom of religion.

Call me crazy, but I think cursing people is no way to let them see God's love...[/quote]

He shouldn't be propaganding religion to other people when his job is to fly an airplane. Sure, he could've spread it with "love". BUt still his job is to fly an aircraft.

Propaganding from other people: Sure as long you don't have the normal :flaming: or bad mouth. Poeple don't have to believe the same religion as you do.

[quote name='Shinji']Professionaly, I'd be surprised if this pilot keep his job. [/quote]

I agree. Can anyone tell me that he got fired. I'm really hoping he did ^_^.

[Guest PutrescentTalk]

I believe you used the word 'feign' incorrectly. I think you meant to say 'believe,' which is not what feign means. It means to give a false appearance of or to pretend.

[color=darkred] Putrescent, I undesrtand your sentiments, and agree.. but this matter could be resolved through PM. Posts like this are considered spam when they have nothing to do with the topic...

And the whole PT nickname belongs to someone named Poison Tounge already, but that's personal beef ;) ~Drix[/color]

[Boba Fett]

[quote name='G/S/B Master']:flaming: If a pilot cursed at me for not being a Christian (i'm a buddhist), I would tell him stick a bible up his ***** and do his job.:flaming: [/quote]

[color=green]What are you talking about? This pilot didn't curse at anyone.[/color]

[color=darkred] agh.. spammy post=bad ~Drix[/color]

[color=green]EDIT: Spam eh? Not enough content I suppose. Let me elaborate.

If you, G/S/B Master, will read the contents of this thread you will find that you're wrong. This pilot swore at nobody. He called non-Christians crazy and suggested that they talk to their Christian neighbors on the flight about their faith. Nothing more.

If you'd read the whole thread, you would have known that.

-Boba[/color]

[Shinken]

[quote name='Boba Fett][color=green']What are you talking about? This pilot didn't curse at anyone.[/color][/quote]

Perhaps he did not exactly 'curse' at the people, but he did berate them for their religious beliefs, which is the main cause for concern. If he started simply swearing at them, he might just have Tourrets. (sp?) However, he started on a zealous rant about his religion, and berated others. That's just... [i]wrong[/i].