Chatrooms

[Sephy's_Grl]

I think that a chatroom on this web site would be a big improvement. You can talk to your friends in real-time and you can talk to others without sending a private message.

[James]

[font=Verdana][size=2][color=dimgray]We did use to run a chatroom at theOtaku.com. However, the place became far too difficult to moderate. It also moved beyond our control, with people appointing chatroom mods without first getting permission from Adam. It really just became a huge mess.[/color][/size][/font]

[font=Verdana][size=2][color=dimgray]Part of the reason that we don't have a chatroom today is because we want to emphasize [i]quality[/i]. Chatrooms don't offer this. And chatrooms themselves don't offer the same level of depth or personalization as OtakuBoards. They are also notoriously difficult to moderate.[/color][/size][/font]

[font=Verdana][size=2][color=dimgray]I figure that if people really want to chat, they can use AIM. Most OBers are using AIM these days anyway. We've had quite a few memorable AIM chats over the years, so I think that tradition should probably continue. There's really little need for us to invest the time and resources into developing an OB-specific chat.[/color][/size][/font]

[Guest cloricus]

[QUOTE=James][font=Verdana][size=2][color=dimgray]We did use to run a chatroom at theOtaku.com. However, the place became far too difficult to moderate. It also moved beyond our control, with people appointing chatroom mods without first getting permission from Adam. It really just became a huge mess.[/color][/size][/font]

[font=Verdana][size=2][color=dimgray]Part of the reason that we don't have a chatroom today is because we want to emphasize [i]quality[/i]. Chatrooms don't offer this. And chatrooms themselves don't offer the same level of depth or personalization as OtakuBoards. They are also notoriously difficult to moderate.[/color][/size][/font][/QUOTE]

To me a chat room is just like a forum; you tell people what you expect, you be nice to newbies by giving them a chance, but any one who doesn't abide by the rules and just goes to far is first warned, then temporally banned and then if they evade or continue in their behaviour they get a noexpire ban.

After nearly four years of moderating in large servers on IRC I have top op's in a few (30 or so) very big and constantly changing channels, for example while I'm writing this I'm banning some one for bad behaviour, so coming from my background in this (and to many four years is no time being an op and I still have a lot to learn) I can easily say that they are not difficult or complicated to control even for a relative novice like me. People on the most part use chat rooms the way they are meant to be used. Also if you want to be a BOFH you can put restrictions on how people talk and what they say to basically in-force quality and I have seen this used very well in a channel that had 150 new people a day come through. (Though I don't like restricting people like this.)

I feel that a decently set up IRC server, which could even be hosted by Adam and not relying on current networks, could offer say several key rooms that were on topic and with good moderators in them would run easily and well with other rooms run by members for what ever they want.
For example how the mta server runs (irc.multitheftauto.com) and just make sure that everything goes nicely with a operating environment much like the dalnet (irc.dalnet.org) or austnet (au.austnet.org) ones. Where you could offer integrated jIRC type clients [b]built into[/b] myOtaku and OBV7 for users who are unsure or couldn't be bothered loading clients and just have volunteers that are initiated through the usual means to make sure they aren't going to go crazy and wipe the channels.

If some one who knew what they were doing was asked now to set up a full IRC server it would take less than five minutes to have it up and running then maybe a day to sort out all the customisations and make sure it ran well with op's and bots in place.

I'd really like to see some thing like this and I'd be willing to help and/or do the work needed to get it going.

[i]The myth of complication and little control is really just that, a myth.[/i]

[G/S/B Master]

Ah yes, I used to be the chatroom mod/OP of it. So many memories.And so many permanent bans :D. I heard the chatroom was also gotten hacked by Goku2/Edwin. So there would be already no hope there.

Chatrooms aren't a good idea at all. There is a possibility of having an AIM OB chatroom. But there's no OP/Mod powers to kick the annoying bastards out.

[James]

[QUOTE=cloricus]To me a chat room is just like a forum; you tell people what you expect, you be nice to newbies by giving them a chance, but any one who doesn't abide by the rules and just goes to far is first warned, then temporally banned and then if they evade or continue in their behaviour they get a noexpire ban.

[/QUOTE]
[font=Verdana][size=2][color=dimgray]I think you're missing the point, Cloricus.[/color][/size][/font]

[font=Verdana][size=2][color=#696969]It's not that we [i]couldn't [/i]regain control of our own chatroom. It's that we had no desire to.[/color][/size][/font]

[font=Verdana][size=2][color=#696969]The chatroom had a series of OPs who had no idea what they were doing. We had put no standards in place and there was nothing "official" about it, in the end. In essence, the chatroom had simply evolved and become the domain of other people. It wasn't related to us and we had no interest in it.[/color][/size][/font]

[font=Verdana][size=2][color=#696969]At this point, I'm being asked if we should put a chat system in OtakuBoards or myOtaku. My answer -- at least at the moment -- is no. OtakuBoards itself is designed to facilitate a certain quality level of discussion. If people want to use a chat facility, I'd simply refer them to AIM or some other chat service.[/color][/size][/font]

[font=Verdana][size=2][color=#696969]In addition to that, I have no interest in using an IRC-based chat. If we were to use a chat system, we'd develop our own. But as I mentioned, we don't have any intention of doing that at the moment.[/color][/size][/font]

[Guest cloricus]

[quote name='James][font=Verdana][size=2][color=dimgray]It's not that we [i]couldn't [/i]regain control of our own chatroom. It's that we had no desire to.[/color][/size'][/font][/quote]I am unsure why you are talking past tense, I personally don't know of any past chat rooms that theotaku has run and I am also unsure why that has any effect on what members are asking for now and what I put forward or the alternatives there are out there.

[quote name='James][font=Verdana][size=2][color=#696969]The chatroom had a series of OPs who had no idea what they were doing. We had put no standards in place and there was nothing "official" about it, in the end. In essence, the chatroom had simply evolved and become the domain of other people. It wasn't related to us and we had no interest in it.[/color][/size'][/font][/quote]Again past tense. Also you are talking about people who had no idea how to run a chat system and had no experience at all without even ground rules. Why? (Not to be rude but I'm kind of getting the feeling that you either skipped over a lot of my post or thought that I was exaggerating when talking about the controls that you can have over it.)

[quote name='James][font=Verdana][size=2][color=#696969]At this point, I'm being asked if we should put a chat system in OtakuBoards or myOtaku. My answer -- at least at the moment -- is no. OtakuBoards itself is designed to facilitate a certain quality level of discussion. If people want to use a chat facility, I'd simply refer them to AIM or some other chat service.[/color][/size'][/font][/quote]This level of quality can be achieved easily in chat channels, more so than forums if the person in charge wishes it, I can show you an example right now that works nicely like this. GBS has also pointed out the major flaw in AIM which is basically that it has no control, I know that an AIM chat can have about 20 people before it becomes useless while say IRC based can take 100000 people and not have a problem at all.

[quote name='James][font=Verdana][size=2][color=#696969]In addition to that, I have no interest in using an IRC-based chat. If we were to use a chat system, we'd develop our own. But as I mentioned, we don't have any intention of doing that at the moment.[/color][/size'][/font][/quote]IRC has been in development since you were young and has been fully functional and secure for more than ten years now (and is a corner stone of the internet) so honestly anything made in house is just not up to scratch for several reasons in comparison. (Security (unlike irc and most other chat systems hacking it would be very easy), usability, scaleability, throughput, administration, lag etc etc.)

I'm really not sure why you are against chat (at least for the moment) for the reasons you are; I really get the feeling that the last chat room that you were involved in was a bad experience but flaws that it had just don't exist in a decent chat system. If you are even slightly interested I am more than happy to show you how easy, controllable and accommodating chat systems can be and currently are. Heck I'd do it just to show you (for example) that there is nothing wrong with IRC!

Anyway you are the admin so all I can do is offer, though I am happy now and in the future if you change your mind to help out with it. Thanks.

[James]

[quote name='cloricus']I am unsure why you are talking past tense, I personally don't know of any past chat rooms that theotaku has run and I am also unsure why that has any effect on what members are asking for now and what I put forward or the alternatives there are out there.[/quote]
[font=Verdana][size=2][color=dimgray]I'm also referencing past discussions that we've had, regarding chat systems. I'm also referencing the fact that we had an established chat system on theOtaku.com for several years and that we have some level of experience in this field. When I say that I don't intend to apply a chat system to OtakuBoards at the current time, I'm not saying it for no reason or out of thin air.[/color][/size][/font][quote]

Again past tense. Also you are talking about people who had no idea how to run a chat system and had no experience at all without even ground rules. Why? (Not to be rude but I'm kind of getting the feeling that you either skipped over a lot of my post or thought that I was exaggerating when talking about the controls that you can have over it.)[/quote]
[font=Verdana][size=2][color=dimgray]I didn't skip over a single thing. It's just that most of what you mentioned was totally irrelevant to the discussion. That may just be because you accidentally misinterpreted what I meant by "control" -- if that's the case, I apologize for not being more clear.[/color][/size][/font][quote]

This level of quality can be achieved easily in chat channels, more so than forums if the person in charge wishes it, I can show you an example right now that works nicely like this. GBS has also pointed out the major flaw in AIM which is basically that it has no control, I know that an AIM chat can have about 20 people before it becomes useless while say IRC based can take 100000 people and not have a problem at all.[/quote]
[font=Verdana][size=2][color=dimgray]I have already explained that I don't intend to place a chat system on OtakuBoards. I don't think there is any real need for us to use one. I feel that our resources are better used elsewhere. Why must we flog a dead horse here?[/color][/size][/font][quote]

IRC has been in development since you were young and has been fully functional and secure for more than ten years now (and is a corner stone of the internet) so honestly anything made in house is just not up to scratch for several reasons in comparison. (Security (unlike irc and most other chat systems hacking it would be very easy), usability, scaleability, throughput, administration, lag etc etc.)[/quote]
[font=Verdana][size=2][color=dimgray]As I said, we are not interested in using IRC again. If we use a chat system, it would be preferable to engineer something that is unique and fully-featured. But since we have no intention of establishing a chat system anytime soon...this point is entirely moot, as are the technical merits of IRC itself.[/color][/size][/font][quote]

I'm really not sure why you are against chat (at least for the moment) for the reasons you are; I really get the feeling that the last chat room that you were involved in was a bad experience but flaws that it had just don't exist in a decent chat system. If you are even slightly interested I am more than happy to show you how easy, controllable and accommodating chat systems can be and currently are. Heck I'd do it just to show you (for example) that there is nothing wrong with IRC!

Anyway you are the admin so all I can do is offer, though I am happy now and in the future if you change your mind to help out with it. Thanks.[/QUOTE]
[font=Verdana][size=2][color=dimgray]Cloricus...you don't need to sit there and tell me all of the most obvious traits of IRC. I'm not [i]that [/i]ignorant. When I talk about our experiences with a chat system, I'm not speaking from a position of ignorance.[/color][/size][/font]

[font=Verdana][size=2][color=dimgray]I'm well aware of what IRC is capable of and how we could use it. But that is irrelevant. We could also create a pay-per-view porn system on OtakuBoards, but it doesn't mean that we necessarily want to do it. Knowing the technical traits of something -- and knowing that it is feasable -- is totally irrelevant at this point.[/color][/size][/font]

[font=Verdana][size=2][color=dimgray]The point is that right now, I'm opposed to producing a chat system on OtakuBoards. I've already expressed my reasoning in this thread and in other similar threads on the same subject. So, again, why continue to flog a dead horse? I have no intention of establishing a chat system here anytime soon, so most of this is really irrelevant.[/color][/size][/font]

[jblessing]

Let me just put my two cents in here as well.

Obviously, a chatroom is a good idea -- however, it is also impracticable right now. Firstly, we can NOT afford to give our resources a way for an IRC chatroom. Our server as a whole right now is taking enough abuse and we have things coming that are far more important than a chat room.

Secondly, the main reason we dealt away with the old chatroom was because of a lack of moderation, which is hard to come by. I am sure you've noticed, we do not just appoint anyone here Moderator privileges so why would we do the same with a chatroom? Most users around here that we would give OPs status in a chatroom would not know what to do with it.

Of course, I understand about running bots to keep things under control. But as I've said before, its impracticable. You might say why not use another IRC server, like irc.webmaster.com. This also brings up another point. If we were to EVER have a chat, it would be on OUR server. Primarily because it rids of all the spammers, etc on other servers but gives us more controls. I would develop the chatroom to use forum nicks and passwords, and on other servers this is pretty much impossible.

Yeh, I know what I have mentioned is redundant to what James' has said, but maybe it will get the point across. Running a chat system on our own server is something we can not afford to do at the moment. Also, we get rod of our old chat system for a good reason -- moderation.

To put it simple, we won't be developing a chat-system integrated with the boards for QUITE a while. And thats all I have to say on the subject.

[Guest Hakura]

[QUOTE=G/S/B Master]Ah yes, I used to be the chatroom mod/OP of it. So many memories.And so many permanent bans :D. I heard the chatroom was also gotten hacked by Goku2/Edwin. So there would be already no hope there.

Chatrooms aren't a good idea at all. There is a possibility of having an AIM OB chatroom. But there's no OP/Mod powers to kick the annoying bastards out.[/QUOTE]

Yeah, man, angelfire sucks!!I'm Hakura.Nice to meet ya!You should get a new banner.

[50 cent]

[COLOR=Blue][SIZE=1][FONT=Arial]I really need to say something in here.

Yes it is a really good idea like most of you are saying, but you guys keep saying the people you asign(sp?) as mods don't know how to use the OP's. Well to me you should have them just practice as a temporary mod then if they are good enough they can become full time. So really your testing them.

I honestly don't think it would be much of a problem just asign(sp?) people that are good at it. Then you will have a good room.

Thats all I have to say.[/FONT][/SIZE][/COLOR]

[Japan]

[QUOTE=50 cent][COLOR=Blue][SIZE=1][FONT=Arial]I really need to say something in here.

Yes it is a really good idea like most of you are saying, but you guys keep saying the people you asign(sp?) as mods don't know how to use the OP's. Well to me you should have them just practice as a temporary mod then if they are good enough they can become full time. So really your testing them.

I honestly don't think it would be much of a problem just asign(sp?) people that are good at it. Then you will have a good room.

Thats all I have to say.[/FONT][/SIZE][/COLOR][/QUOTE]


Well, James and Jblessing both said that it was not a good idea, so it won't happen. From what I heard from older members about that old chatroom, it was a huge mess.

You could train someone how to use the OP's, yes, but...there is another problem there with your train of thought.

For one thing, people have a life. They have school to go to, a social life, and also a job on top of that. They wouldn't want to spend endless hours moderating an Official chatroom here.

I agree with Jblessing as well. This is already a huge community here, with over 6000 members. Also, they post a lot of art and many other things. A chat would be too much. Also...there are more important things that are far more urgent than some chatroom.

Also, AIM works perfectly. I've had so many memorable chats with other OtakuBoards' members on AIM. Also....I don't really like web site based chats...the set ups don't appeal to me.

So, chat rooms are a bad idea.

[IchibanYariman]

I think a chatroom would be very unique to a site. Pretty much all forums don't have chatrooms. Adding a chatroom onto the board would make this very different. It will be cool.