Mikkaddo Posted March 10, 2004 Share Posted March 10, 2004 [COLOR=DarkRed]allow me to say one thing about creation, I can back the creation by god, as something had to make it all happen, but the idea that first there was only god is too strictly following a flawed human ideal if you ask me, after all as a firm believer in reincarnation I believe there truly is no "time" meaning that there never was a "begining" but rather that it allways was and always will be, but that "creation" destroyed itself and the ruling spirit then took the ashes and corpses and reformed the world and all around it that it may live on rather than end in nothingness, but thats just what I think, if you don't like what I believe thats fine, follow what you believe, thats what I do, I won't fuss if anyone else won't[/COLOR] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shinken Posted March 10, 2004 Share Posted March 10, 2004 [quote name='Mikkaddo][COLOR=DarkRed']allow me to say one thing about creation, I can back the creation by god, as something had to make it all happen, but the idea that first there was only god is too strictly following a flawed human ideal if you ask me, after all as a firm believer in reincarnation I believe there truly is no "time" meaning that there never was a "begining" but rather that it allways was and always will be, but that "creation" destroyed itself and the ruling spirit then took the ashes and corpses and reformed the world and all around it that it may live on rather than end in nothingness, but thats just what I think, if you don't like what I believe thats fine, follow what you believe, thats what I do, I won't fuss if anyone else won't[/COLOR][/quote] Mikkaddo, you may have just given me an idea... There's a scientific theory floating around... [i]somewhere[/i] stating that the universe may do just that. The Big Bang may have happened a few times before. From what I can remember, some of the space debris way out in space may be slowing down, thus creating what I dub a "slinky theory". Which means that the universe constantly expands and contracts, over and over. Thus, the Big Bang wasn't that spectacular. That is, if the theory is correct, it's all just speculation. Then again, so was flight. :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Narius Posted March 10, 2004 Share Posted March 10, 2004 Eh, your all far too close minded. I'm a devout athiest, therefor I disbelieve in the fact there is a god, or anything else the "Holy" book tells about. To say there has to be a beginning is false, you simply believe there has to be a beginning. Just because some guy wrote a book about his beliefs doesn't make it true. Organized religion is a ludicrous idea to me, it assumes a certain faction of assimilation that should not be followed, to blindly believe in what somebody tells you is the truth is pointless. Now I'm not saying that I risregard your right to believe in what you believe, but believe in it because you want to, not because your family does and you got dragged along for the ride. I believe that we are here simply because we are, there is no concrete proof to tell me otherwise so I don't believe it. When we die I don't believe we get judged and sent to either heaven or hell, I believe consciousness simply ends, we no longer exist, its as simple as that. Oh creating controversy, I love it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wrist cutter Posted March 10, 2004 Share Posted March 10, 2004 [QUOTE=Narius] Oh creating controversy, I love it.[/QUOTE] OMG, the controversy!!!1 Don't overestimate yourself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Narius Posted March 10, 2004 Share Posted March 10, 2004 [QUOTE=wrist cutter]OMG, the controversy!!!1 Don't overestimate yourself.[/QUOTE] But I have all the reason in the world to. You on the other hand don't have reason to assume things about me. Ahem. Now stay on topic! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wrist cutter Posted March 10, 2004 Share Posted March 10, 2004 [quote name='Narius']You on the other hand don't have reason to assume things about me.[/quote] Interesting, considering you just made a post that not only called every religious person close-minded, but also said they're all blindly following their chosen faith. What makes YOU any more enlightened than any of us? Besides, it's not controversy in the first place. Anyone who is religious has undoubtedly heard much worse things said about them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Narius Posted March 10, 2004 Share Posted March 10, 2004 [QUOTE=wrist cutter]Interesting, considering you just made a post that not only called every religious person close-minded, but also said they're all blindly following their chosen faith. What makes YOU any more enlightened than any of us? Besides, it's not controversy in the first place. Anyone who is religious has undoubtedly heard much worse things said about them.[/QUOTE] To claim that everyone's religion is a blind following of some crazy guy's book that was written a really long time ago and really shouldn't have any bearing on today's life would generally cause controversy amongst those devout to their beliefs, so I was in the right in assuming such things. Never said I was more enlightened, but to believe 100% that everything had to start some where is infact close minded....in fact it could be used to define the word. Anything else you want to bore me with? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Semjaza Posted March 10, 2004 Share Posted March 10, 2004 [QUOTE=Narius]To claim that everyone's religion is a blind following of some crazy guy's book that was written a really long time ago and really shouldn't have any bearing on today's life would generally cause controversy amongst those devout to their beliefs, so I was in the right in assuming such things. Never said I was more enlightened, but to believe 100% that everything had to start some where is infact close minded....in fact it could be used to define the word. Anything else you want to bore me with?[/QUOTE] Is there some reason you have to be the only one who is condescending and insulting to other peoples' belief systems in this thread? Everyone else has managed to be civil and open about things. Meanwhile you imply that you have the true answers are infact "enlightened", regardless of the words you chose to express it with. Obviously you are implying that anyone that "blindly" follows a faith is somehow less knowledgeable than one who doesn't. It kind of shows that you don't know what faith is in the first place, anyway. Your "crazy guy's book" comment shows such a lack of understanding of the involved religions as it is. Stop wasting everyone's time by acting like a spiritual advisor. You've not really shown any extreme intelligence by your blowing off of wrist cutter's posts. The only ones here who are bored are those who have to bring themselves to read your posts on the subject, which really offer no insight that hasn't been brought up in the past thousand years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Queen Asuka Posted March 10, 2004 Share Posted March 10, 2004 [quote name='Narius']Never said I was more enlightened, but to believe 100% that everything had to start some where is infact close minded....in fact it could be used to define the word. Anything else you want to bore me with?[/quote] [color=hotpink][size=1]The same could really be said about you. What if I say that to believe 100% that everyone [i]just exists[/i] is close-minded? It can go either way, really.[/color][/size] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Retribution Posted March 10, 2004 Share Posted March 10, 2004 Hey, I am a Christian, and I try to go to church every sunday... keyword would be I believe that since there are many different religions all around the world, they are all correct (unless you are far off my beaten path) Let me explain. People evolved all over the world, without exposer to other religion. It seems that some God inspired every religion in some way shape or form ex: Jesus, Buddah, Mohammed, etc. I believe that we are all worshipping the same God, just under different cultures. Do you understand? Each culture (I theorize) must've been worshipping the same God, just with cultural variations excusive to the region. (I dont mean to generalize, forgive me) For example: in some countries in the middle east, women are treated terribly, but that is their religion. that is how its done, how it was done, and how it will be for a while. Christians worship in a more Western way than Hindus or other religions do. Do you wanna know why? Cause they 'evolved' in different areas. I probably repeated myself many times, but there it is. Again, forgive me if you are in any way offended by my comments etc. I did not mean to... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikkaddo Posted March 10, 2004 Share Posted March 10, 2004 [COLOR=DarkRed]also Narius, you assume that everyone that follows a faith follows it blindly, myself I do not, I follow my faith and trudge through near endless ridicule as I am sure many others that follow less than hugely popular faiths do, but I am by no stretch of the imagination close minded, I was once catholic, but I read up on it theologicaly, and found it to be far too complicated and seemingly sitationaly written for me (understand I mean no offense in this, it is simply what I had seen) and so I still read as much on other faiths and beliefs as I can, I am not one to say that what I believe is right and thats that, nor do I follow some "holy book" your posts in this assume that everyone follows their faith as though it were the only way to live, that is no where near true. ask any here and I assure you that the most of us do not simply say that our belief is all there is, the vast majority rather are far more likely to say that they believe what they believe but still are open to what the future may hold. to make it easier to understand, I follow my belief, yet should I die and see that the truth was something else I would be open to it and adapt to it, not cruel and unaccepting. also I never said that any single spirit or being started it all, I said that I think it never "started" and will never "end" but will instead conitnue on and on forever and ever. your posts have done nothing more than aggrivate those of us in this thread that have respect for people of a different belief, while you. you have no respect for anyone who is not as you are, frankly it is you who is close minded not any of us[/COLOR] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Narius Posted March 10, 2004 Share Posted March 10, 2004 See? Contraversy. And You thought I overestimated myself. Its funny that everyone did exactly as I suspected, defend their belief without truly reading what I said. In fact I said multiple times that this is what I believe, not fact. I also said that you can and have the right to believe in anything you want, I don't condescend your ability to do so, I am simply stating what I believe. I believe the book is a fictional work thought up by some guy, everyone thought he was serious and knew what he was talking about so they started worshipping the main focus of said book, that is my belief. Once again not stating it as fact, simply stating that that is what I have been brought to theorize by my relation to those inclined to religion. I am not divulging myself as some form of superior being, just one with a different track of thought, though since your blinding defence mechanism for your religion has made you apparently blur our half of what I said there is no pleasing you. I did not say everyone does, nor did I say that any of you blindly follow your faith, I said that people in general should not, never specifying the percentage, nor any specific person who does, just saying it should not be done. There is no denying the fact that somewhere out there there are people who in fact blindly accept whatever is fed to them, though once again I will state and hope that you read it this time, I am not specifying any group or any individual who does, just stating that they are out there, and should not do so. So to say that I am close minded would be truthful, though not to a point. You see I believe in a million different possibilities, I believe in possibilities that could plausibly come about. Not things that have no possible ability to be proven. Until the truth behind everything is shown to me I will assume what I must to make the world make sense, just like everyone else does. You see the reason why I claimed I would create controversy is not because of my views, but because people would jump to conclusions and try to belittle these conclusions without thinking it through. Cold Reading I believe is the technical name for it. Anything else anyone wants to randomly yell about? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Semjaza Posted March 10, 2004 Share Posted March 10, 2004 This is far from controversy lol. You're posting opinions of yours while disagreeing with the opinions of others and people are responding. I've [I]never [/I]seen that before lol. I don't even follow these religion and therefore have no "defense mechanism". I doubt there would have even been an issue if you just stated your thoughts and didn't call people close minded and claim some sort of superiority and down talking (which I honestly do think is shown by your " But I have all the reason in the world to. You on the other hand don't have reason to assume things about me. Ahem." comment). You do realize the Bible isn't just written by one person, I hope. I'm not getting that impression. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wrist cutter Posted March 10, 2004 Share Posted March 10, 2004 [QUOTE=Narius] Its funny that everyone did exactly as I suspected, defend their belief without truly reading what I said.[/QUOTE] 'Everyone' being two people apparently. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Narius Posted March 10, 2004 Share Posted March 10, 2004 Either way some form of a mechanizm within you gave you the feeling that you had to defend the right to believe in what you want, thus blanking out me saying that I in fact support people believing in what they believe. The close minded comment still stands, though I suppose we are all close minded in our own way. And by creating conflict over an issue such as this without just being an idiot that would be controversy. Also never said I was a superior in any way to anyone, just claimed I have a high opinion of myself, which is seen more as a plus than a minus (I'm also dead sexy incase anyone wanted to know). And I thought it was written by one guy. Meh, what can you do when you've never actually looked into other people's religion due to disagreeing with organized religion. I just happen to put my beliefs a little more bluntly than most in this topic to begin with thats where the hostility came from, but I in no way meant to tread on anyone elses beliefs, just claiming why I don't agree with them. and yes everyone is included in those three people, thank you captain sarcasm for your interjection to point out useless grammatical errors that have nothing to do with the topic at hand. I await anxiously for you to find some error in my sentence, I'll even leave a few for you so you can find them, its like a game. -_-;; Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Semjaza Posted March 10, 2004 Share Posted March 10, 2004 Well, in any case, I don't really understand how one could reject a religion if they don't know much beyond the basics of it. In my situation, I dislike organized religion because of all my experience with it. I'd say it's best to know your enemy (although enemy is a bad choice of words, I can't think of something fitting -- I'm sure people know what I mean). That's me though heh. Anyway... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wrist cutter Posted March 10, 2004 Share Posted March 10, 2004 [quote name='Narius']and yes everyone is included in those three people, thank you captain sarcasm for your interjection to point out useless grammatical errors that have nothing to do with the topic at hand. [/quote] It was entirely relevant. And just to be nice, I'll point out that it has nothing to do with grammar anyway. Only two people have defended their opinions; Altron and Mikkado. Queen Asuka is not defending herself but instead pointing out the flaw in your logic, not exactly in her defense. Anyway, the point of my earlier post is to show just how inflated of a view you seem to have of yourself in this thread. Two people defend their opinions (therefore obviously creating MASS CONTROVERSY!!!!) and you automatically point out to us "ah ha! I was right! EVERYONE IS DEFENDING THEIR OPINIONS!! I'M A GENIUS!!". Even if you didn't outright say those things, you didn't really have to. I wouldn't be surprised if you didn't realize how you sound when you post. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Narius Posted March 10, 2004 Share Posted March 10, 2004 and you are claiming that no one else would have done the same thing? If I had left it over night say for example it would have ended with those few members trying to disprove me and no other conflict would have gone on? That is to say the least foolishness. Everyone in this case reffered to the majority of the posters who posted after me...other than Altron, had conflict to be raised against my opinion, since conflict is the route of controversy it became a controvercial topic to be discussed, are you following so far? Now as for my inflated sense of ego, it doesn't stop with this topic, I'm an egomaniac, what did you expect? It isn't precisely relevant to anything that was important. To point out such a miniscule grammatical(thats right it is grammatical I will explain why) error in the midst of a three paragraph post and not shed light on anything else was both irrelevant and pointless. It was a grammatical error, grammatical in the sense that I used the wrong word in this case, I should have used something to the affiliation of "So far everyone" or "The respondants". So it was in fact a grammatical error since grammar is allocated towards anything technical about the written english language. You just like to get in arguements don't you? EDIT: Oh and Semjaza, I m against religion because of the amount of assimilation involved with it. That is to say I don't believe that any form of beliefs should have constants, beliefs should be as diverse as personality itself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wrist cutter Posted March 10, 2004 Share Posted March 10, 2004 [quote name='Narius']You just like to get in arguements don't you?[/quote] Why bother asking when you can just assume it? My point has been made. I'm done here. Oh, and might I add, had you left this post overnight I still don't think you'd have a huge debate over your post by the time you returned. Even if you did, it would more than likely be a bunch of nonsense by people who take offense at everything religious. That doesn't count. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James P. Galvatron Posted March 10, 2004 Share Posted March 10, 2004 I just want to know what the heck is Wiccan I know a little bit about it some people consider it to be related to say Devil Worship or Witch like activities I just hate it when people confuse Goths and Wiccans they are diffrent people just don't see that. I am right know a Christian not baptised to any church so I don't feel myself to be apart of like the big picture I am not becoming Catholic wouldn't feel safe raising my children up in a church with that kind of a history. Right know I am lost on all these diffrent types of Christian churches man and Islam they all believe in God, but in the Islamic Religion he is known as Allah and the prophets of the religion differ like Jewish Religion prophet Moses, Islamic Muhammad, and Christianity Jesus Christ. Why are so many of you trying to tell people what religion they should join and im all fine and dandy with some of you being atheist, but don't try to tell people things about there religion that you think or believe when you aren't even apart of the religion; You may distort their beliefs making them become atheists when some of you telling all these flaws barely know anything about the religion. Someone here believed the bible was written by one guy okay don't badmouth a religion you know nothing about. It doesn't work makes you out to be a babbling fool complaining about something you do not understand nor believes in. Also I need to find out what religion I want to be right know im in the Christianity Branch the closets thing to that is Muslim since they both believe in Allah or God just have diffrent views I'm not with the Hindu religion with its Varna's and its ladders of reincarnation and things I've had Christianity slammed into my mouth so much I find reincarnation to be a joke im not playing I do believe in inner peace and tranquility of the mind and soul and karma, but not enough to try out the Buddhist religion I have a little anger problem that would make that kind of hard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baron Samedi Posted March 10, 2004 Share Posted March 10, 2004 [color=darkred][size=1]I'll just have to pick an argument here too. This isn't controversy. This is a disagreement. A minor skirmish if you will. Controversy is a ten page debate on the ethics of abortion. This isn't worth.... peanuts. You come in, make a vague insult about the Bible and how every religious person blindly follows their faith, and expect controversy? If you hadn't acted like such a big-head then people wouldn't feel the need to take you down a peg or too. I wouldn't even have considered your post insulting, indeed, it was rather lame. YOU are closeminded. You won't even accept the fact that religion could be true. Me, I don't really care either way. I am open-minded. But, whether or not others are, you are truly close-minded. Speaking of which, close-minded is a popular word isn't it, eh wristcutter? ;) [quote name='Narius']Just because some guy wrote a book about his beliefs doesn't make it true. [/quote] "Just because some guy called 'Narius' doesn't believe in religion, doesn't mean it isn't true" Right? [b]E D I T[/b]: Inuyasha[number], did that post run you out of breath? Because it certainly ran me out of it.[/size][/color] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Narius Posted March 10, 2004 Share Posted March 10, 2004 [QUOTE=Baron Samedi][color=darkred][size=1]I'll just have to pick an argument here too. This isn't controversy. This is a disagreement. A minor skirmish if you will. Controversy is a ten page debate on the ethics of abortion. This isn't worth.... peanuts. You come in, make a vague insult about the Bible and how every religious person blindly follows their faith, and expect controversy? If you hadn't acted like such a big-head then people wouldn't feel the need to take you down a peg or too. I wouldn't even have considered your post insulting, indeed, it was rather lame. YOU are closeminded. You won't even accept the fact that religion could be true. Me, I don't really care either way. I am open-minded. But, whether or not others are, you are truly close-minded. Speaking of which, close-minded is a popular word isn't it, eh wristcutter? ;) "Just because some guy called 'Narius' doesn't believe in religion, doesn't mean it isn't true" Right? [b]E D I T[/b]: Inuyasha[number], did that post run you out of breath? Because it certainly ran me out of it.[/size][/color][/QUOTE] [quote]Even if you did, it would more than likely be a bunch of nonsense[/quote] Wow, you were right! You know only with more flaming, but ya got the nonesense part right on. Ahem The meaning of conroversy obviously escapes you, a working usage of the english language would be beneficial before you post random inane spam flames. -_- I never said every person blindly follows it nor was what I said an insult rather an insight from my own beliefs. Once again that english language thing, hard language I know but try to keep up. I'm fairly sure if I hadn't said anything about my high self esteem people would have still disagreed with my theory, just people would have done it in a more polite manor. rather lame indeed, such is the fate for the replies to a lame post. Think about it. Never said it "couldn't" be true...I in fact would like you to point to anywhere where I said it was impossible, I simply stated its improbability. By your logic, to claim someone close minded and not be open to the fact that he is open minded would make you close minded, hey its you're logic, not mine. I also explisitly claimed my beliefs are not truth, just beliefs. I also don't ask anyone to follow my beliefs...so yes just because I say it doesn't make it true, and just because you reply trying to get a rise out of me for no apparent reason doesn't mean your intelligent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikkaddo Posted March 10, 2004 Share Posted March 10, 2004 [COLOR=DarkRed]you do realize you constantly contradict yourself right Narius? you keep saying that you never stated that all people that follow religion follow it blindly when in clear text you said just that, and in nearly the same words, and if you have all the right in the world to assume what you wish about any of us, we can do the same to you, also, you are completely scarpping 1 religion, taking no notice of any other, you keep talking about how the BIBLE is false, you never speak of the Koran, or the teachings of Budah, nor the ideals of any other religion, you are close minded for that and many other reasons, you only look at one religion then call it false and say all religions are false, yes there are people that blindly follow whatever **** someone feeds them, but they are few and far between in religion, and your saying that you will follow what ever it takes for the world to make sense to you, and that everyone else does exactly that is a gross generalization, I and many others do not need the world to "make sense" hell who knows if this is the only "deminsion" as one might call it? no one does, your comments this whole time have all been contradictary, and argumenative, yes we have all be argumenative but only because you provoke us by stating that we are all the same and that we are all following a mad man's doctrine, what if its you? what if Aethism was created by a man that was jeleous of the truth, what if Aetheism was created by someone that hated the ruling spirit and wanted to try and "show it up" by saying "Ha! I don't believe in you!" no that does not mean I am saying that, that is what happened, as I don't know, but neither do you, you constantly argue what you believe but allow no leway for others to be remotely right like you say you have[/COLOR] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Narius Posted March 10, 2004 Share Posted March 10, 2004 Does anyone actually read through what I said before replying or just feed off of others flames and pretend to know what they're arguing against. Once again I stated I don't BELIEVE in it, I never once said it is false or something to be wiped aside without a second thought. I use Christianity as an example in my posts because its the mostly widely spread religion out there. Now you misconstrued the meaning of make sense. In other words to make the world bareable. Its impossible for one to not go insane without believing in something, if you believe in absolutely nothing at all then you would drive yourself insane trying to figure out whats real and whats not. If you believe the sky is blue then you believe it because that way it makes sense to you, and since I have yet to contradict myself in any fashion you need to look up the meaning in the dictionary. Contradiction would be for me to say "You're religion is for a fact unfounded." and then say "but it could be true." I never said that it is for a fact unfounded, I simply said I believe it to be nothing more than a fairy tale, never claiming my beliefs are to be construed as truths. I never said you were all the same, Obviously not but to believe in a book is fairly ludicrous in my mind. You see now you are claiming that what you believe is the truth, which is far more closeminded and contradictory to your reasoning behind the agruement than anything I ever said. I said I don't believe, you're saying that atheism may have been created by someone who was jealous of the "truth." Thus claiming there is some monumental truth that all must follow which is in fact quite contradictory to claiming that you accept other people's opinions. Hmmmmm...hypocritical as well I see. Since Athiesm isn't an organized belief that entire statement makes no sense, atheism is pretty much saying you believe whatever you want to believe without boundaries, not a group of people who hate god. Also since I still do not claim anyone elses beliefs to be false for them there is no plausible reason you can believe that I am smothering other people's beliefs. Just because I don't welcome it with open arms and decide to believe in what everyone else believes doesn't mean I don't accept their right to believe it. Seriously, read then reply. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikkaddo Posted March 10, 2004 Share Posted March 10, 2004 [COLOR=DarkRed]so Im self contradictary eh? I said there was a single truth that we shall all see after death, never saying what it was, never saying it was what I believed, I am in no way contradicting myself there, you however have several times said that the bible was ludicrous never stating that it might be true but that its not what you believed, also you underestimate the human mind, one does not need to understand everything around them to not be driven insane, inplace of strict understanding one can place acceptance for what they see. why is the sky blue? atoms, and beams of light reflecting off of the things down on the ground? maybe. is it blue because some great being makes it that way? maybe. I don't know, but it won't drive me insane to try and understand that nor much of anything else, yes every one tries to understand the things around them, but you again grossly generalized the people of the world, not everyone is like you in that sense either, we do not all have to see the proof to believe it[/COLOR] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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