Otakuboards Religious Thread

[Farto the Magic]

[quote name='Justin']At the end of the day, that's all I can do anyway. To all those who've had Christianity rammed down your throats, I apologize. Hopefully you don't feel as though I'm one of those who's done it. But the simple facts are these: God came to the world as a man to suffer as men suffer. He suffered, died in the most humiliating way of the era, and rose again--the conquerer of death, hell, and the grave. He's coming back again, at the appointed time, to reestablish his kingdom here on earth and to live with those who choose to love him as he loves them. Christ died for you, so that you could live with him. Whether you choose to accept that or not is up to you. God bless you all with wisdom, kindness, and sincere love.[/quote]

[COLOR=DarkRed]So, you're trying to justify the fact that so many people ahve had christianity rammed down their throats and don't believe, by ramming it down their throats?! Come on, man! If you want to spread your religion, do it slowly, not the way that so many before have been turned off to it! Duh, you just appologized for it and now you do it?! Are you trying to get people annoyed? Just for that comment, stab yourself in the hand with a plastic fork. Honestly, some people are hypocrits...[/COLOR]

[Gelgoog Pilot]

See no offense Justin but you are the type of christian I hate.......Also One of the reasons I quit from my religion. YOu can't say things like that. You just can't force your beliefs on people like you just did. Even if you tried to do it descretly. I stopped beleiveing in God but I don't try and convince people otherwise nor do I tell them something to the effect of "God bless". Ugh.......It makes me sick to think that i once belonged to about the same following as you.

[James]

[color=#707875]At this point, I think that we should look back to the original context of the thread. And again, let's try to ensure that we keep things civil and respectful. People obviously don't want to be preached to -- so don't do it. At the same time, nobody should be attacked for their beliefs. Let's try to keep things relatively neutral. If you want to ask someone a question about their beliefs, by all means, do so. But again, keep it respectful.

I'll take a novel approach here. Those who spam in this thread will have their posts removed from it. I will do this, rather than close the whole thread. There is absolutely no reason why you guys shouldn't be mature enough to deal with threads like this now.[/color]

[Guest ScirosDarkblade]

Atheist right here, folks. And I thoroughly dislike religion, for too many reasons to bother listing. I'll say just one for the heck of it, and that's that many religious people think that their religion is what sets moral standards for everyone, and that morality stemmed from their religion. One can't be more mistaken. That's all, I guess.

[Boo]

[color=gray][quote]About the Hindu reincarnation. Don't they have the caste system? If so, hell could be interprited as being an untouchable and then moving up the caste, highest I believe is being a religous leader. So it isin't a wealth thing. You could be a homeless person and still have better karma than a high-ranking member of society (money-wise high ranking).

[/quote]

With wealth I more likely meant how high you stand above the normal people.
So I didnt actually meant with money or anything, I just couldnt find the word ^_^;;

What I really thought was the best thing of the Hindu lessons was the part of the enlightment or something.
When your karma is totally cleaned, you can see the real world instead of the fakish world we live in (something like that).
The matrix is based on that cause the creator was a hindu aswell. But before we (the class) knew that, everyone began talking about the matrix all of a sudden lol.

I got a B+ or something for the hindu chapter T.T[/color]

[Farto the Magic]

[QUOTE=Bio][size=2][color=sienna]As far as I know, early Christians believed that everyone could be ressurected from the flesh. They made a small hole in a person's tomb, and poured honey and water into it for the dead. It's reletively similar to the Egyptians, which raises a few questions. The Christian/Ressurection thing didn't last very long anyway, though, so that's kinda irrelevant.[/color][/size]

[size=2][color=sienna]And for the Satanist, thing, this is what I know. Satan was once and/or is still called Lucifer, which literally means 'bringer of light'. I'm pretty sure that Lucifer was a Seraph, or somewhere higher up in the angel heirarchy. I'm not quite sure what mistake Lucifer made though. I think it was some kind of betrayal, or Lucifer believed that he was as powerful as God. I'm not very knowledgable in that department though. ^^[/color][/size][/QUOTE]

[COLOR=DarkRed]That's pretty interesting. But, I thought that in heaven, you can't do bad things, so did God just not like him, or what? He couldn't have done anything bad, yet he was tossed into a stove. That doesn't make a whole lot of sense to me.

Just to throw this out in the open, I don't know what the hell I am. Another thing to throw out: The idea of angels came from the Babylonian (No dictionary, people!) myths about their God, who was an angel. They also believed in hell. It seems to me like christianity is a collaboration of all ancient myths and religions. It's that knowledge which makes me not know what to think...[/COLOR]

[Guest ScirosDarkblade]

You should actually read about the history of the early Christians and how the Christian church came to wield the enormous power it has had since. I think more than anything it'll give you a good perspective on church doctrine. I'd recomment an author such as Will Durant, though his books are really really thick.

[Gelgoog Pilot]

Yes, you see The christians were sone of the first followings who converted people in great amounts. Sometimes to make the conversion less forgien or to get more of the native people from the area. They would adopt and change local myths so the religion was more appealing so to speak. There you have it, the true face of Christianity. Not the reason why I left the faith but just plain interesting. :D

[Mikkaddo]

[COLOR=DarkRed]myself I say thats a good idea, the thicker the book is, the more indepth it will be. Also I personally have alwasy been very interested in the times of the Spanish Inquisition, and the time of the Crusades. For those are the times that resembled very much justified murder, and I find it interesting that the church had at one point done that. As for the Spanish Iinquisition, I just thought the near endless torture, and murder of "hereitcs" with the only explination being "you go against the church" was quite odd, and enjoy seeing the justifications for such actions. But hey, thats me.[/COLOR]

[Radaghast]

[QUOTE=Boo][color=gray]
What I really thought was the best thing of the Hindu lessons was the part of the enlightment or something.
When your karma is totally cleaned, you can see the real world instead of the fakish world we live in (something like that).
The matrix is based on that cause the creator was a hindu aswell. But before we (the class) knew that, everyone began talking about the matrix all of a sudden lol.

[/color][/QUOTE]

[SIZE=1][COLOR=DarkOrange][FONT=Garamond]Is the goal of Hinduism enlightenment? I thought that was only Buddhism. Do we have any Hindu members that could confirm?

Though I don't think your' karma has any direct effect of reaching enlightenment other than how you are reincarnated. Meditation is how you reach enlightenment. As well as seeing the illusion that the world is, you see how pointless the suffering that we cause is when you reach enlightenment.

I thought there was something similar when I watched the Matrix movies between the flick and Buddhism. [/FONT] [/COLOR] [/SIZE]

[Semjaza]

I'm not sure about hinduism... but with Buddhism, I really don't know how you'd reach englightenment without a solid karma. You need to settle your karmic debts through its teachings. It's not even possible to reach Nirvana otherwise. It's all intertwined.

[Panda]

My personal views on religion would have to be summed up in one word....confused. I was raised in a family that the majority was/is Buddhist. My mom was Buddhist then became Baptist. My dad was raised Buddhist. They both go to a Christian Missionary church now. :confused:

Going to the Missionary church there were many things they taught us in Sunday school that I didn't like the idea of. I know it bad to pick and choose parts of religion, which is something else they taught us, but I can't help it. We were taught if you were not Christian you would go to hell when you died. That means the majority of my family who has past on is now in hell. They were good people, yet by the teachings of the Missionary church they are in hell. There are many teachings in the Missionary church I agree with, but that was one belief I don't agree with.

Right now both my husband and I do not attend church. We live our lives by the golden rule and try to be good people. He was raised going to the Church of the Brethern. I am open to learning about all the religions in our world.

On a side note, thank you to those of you who have given information about their religions. I think it is great that we can share this information about our faiths. Many times all we know about other religions is rumors and tall tales. Thanks for sharing.

[Mikkaddo]

[COLOR=darkred]well Panda the idea of "If your not Christain your going to hell" is kind of a scaretactic, its meant to scare people into converting under the fear of damnation, truly a pigheaded and arrogant way of making your following grow if you ask me. when I do believe there are a number of lines in the bible about respecting the beliefs and practices of others. your not picking and choosing, as the people that said that all who are not Christain are damned is in and of itself wrong. so long as they do not completely rape the ideals of their religion they are in no danger of any such horrible fate.

Myself I am thankful to have found at least one person of even mild interest in Animalism. Also I am very thankful to have only had to deal with the ridicule that followed as a result of that one "disagreement" as one might put it . . . Otherwise I have seen nothing like what I normally do. (that being, me getting told about how I worship satan and that I am forever damned . . . when the truth is I can't worship a spirit I don't believe exists)[/COLOR]

[Xander Harris]

Hmmmm. As a Christian born and raised, allow me to address some of that. I think you have a few misconceptions about what Christian's believe.

My beliefs concerning hell, and the beliefs of most evangelical Christians (as well as most catholics, as far as I know) are as follows:

Firstly, everyone deserves Hell. I do. Billy Grahm does. The Pope does. Every human being is inherently sinful. We all rebel against God's plan for humanity, which is for us to live in perfect, loving service to one another and to our Creator. Or, as Jesus said, to love your neighbor as yourself and love the Lord your God with all your heart, soul, mind and strength. How many of us do that? How many of us have never said something unkind to another human being? How many of us live every moment of every day in service to God? I know I sure don't. Here is something else to consider: Jesus said that if you look at a women with lust it is as if you have committed adultery. And if you say to your brother "you fool!" you have committed murder in your heart. Even if you have never outwardly done anything wrong (which we all have), has your mind and soul always been perfectly pure? No?

Therefore, as punishment for our rebellion against the natural order of things which God established at the beginning of time, we are all headed to hell.

Yet God is Love. Jesus became flesh, and died on the cross in place of us. He rose from the dead to show that his sacrifice had not been in vein. He rose to show that now death and hell have no hold on those who believe in him.

Therefore when Christians speak of Hell is not a 'scare tactic' to force people into their religion. We are sharing the good news that hell does not have the last laugh, and that death is not the end of the story.

Secondly, the idea that the Bible says all religions are equal is simply a lie. God strongly condemns the pagan nations around Israel in the Old Testament. He instructs his disciples to "go and make disciples of all nation" in the New Testament. Paul is thrown in prison because his teachings threaten those who sell idols.

Yet at the same time, Paul speaks of being "all things to all men". He uses the theology of the Greeks and their religious beliefs to explain Christianity to them. Christians are not called to persecute other religions, but rather to live lives that will cause others to ask "what to they have that I don't"? We should use logical arguments at times, and at other times simply show love. The "Bible-thumping" preacher certainly has his place in God's designs, but more often than not charity, compassion, and love are what bring people to Christ.

I might come back and get into some deeper theology and such later, such as how is one 'saved', Christian beliefs about predestination and providence (now there's a long and confusing discussion for you ;) ) the nature of the Trinity and such, but I was just trying to put things in simplest terms above. Feel free to ask questions, and I'll do my best to answer. :)

Now allow me to ask a question about someone else's religion. Which of the two did the word Nirvana come from? Buddhism or Hinduism? And while we?re on the subject of Nirvana, what religion was practiced by music legend Kurt Cobain :D ?

Well, I was just reading some of the earlier posts in this thread, and all I have to say for the organized churches in America is WHATEVER THE HECK HAPPENED TO APOLOGETICS!?! I thought this too while watching biblical commentators on T.V after The Passion came out. The news anchors would ask them questions like does the historical Pilate and the Biblical Pilate fit together or somesuch, and the bible sscholors would reply with things like "well, we just trust the Bible is true..."

No, we don't! God gave us brains, he expects us to use them. That's why the Bible says to "test everything". We can use facts, logical reasoning, in short, Apologetics! I feel sorry for the people who abandoned the faith because they found things in Christianity, like the ark and such that they didn't think fit in with history. It's too bad that so many churches nowadays serve out airy-fairy 'just believe' Christianity and expect everyone to shut their brains off. Faith is certainly an important part of Christianity, if not the most important part, but God doesn't expect us to have that faith with nothing to support it and no way to defend it. You don't shut your brain off when you become a Christian. You don't stop asking questions and looking for answers. Whatever happened to apologetics...

(note I'm not talking about any of the Christians who posted in this thread. I'm talking about the churches some of the people in this thread used to belong to)

If you question the authenticity of your faith in Christ, I would highly recommend "Evidence That Demands A Verdict" volumes one and two by Josh McDowell. They are two of the best books of Apologetics ever written, filled with historical, archaelogical, and logical evidence. God gave us brains so we could use them.

[Mikkaddo]

[COLOR=DarkRed]Myself I never said that Hell was a "Scare tactic" what I said was, was the "if your not Christian your damned to hell no matter what you do" arguement that was said to be used by one church. I can see that by the reasoning we are all born with original sin, its only natural, we are not perfect. only Jesus would have been "perfect" but not even he was. Well not to the wholest exstent. but the problem comes in when you are told that unless you convert you have no chance of salvation, thats what I am saying is a scaretactic. thats making the person think "crap! if I don't convert I will suffer forever in the afterlife!" since they believe that staying in a religion other than the one that Priest preached for would bring them damnation even if by their religions beliefs they were good, they are scared into converting. I never meant to make it sound as though I was appyling it to all churches. I am most certainly not. I mean the church my family goes to is nothing like that. And the Resident priest? hell I knew the guy since I was in preschool! I love him like family![/COLOR]

[Shinken]

I, personally, don't buy into the whole "Non-believers are instant hell-occupants" deal, because it just doesn't fit into the loving God equation. Yes, I know of the 'wrath of God' stuff, but I don't see why he would send most of the world to heaven, when he also states that everyone is a 'child of God'.

[Mikkaddo]

[COLOR=darkred]thats because that is almost always just a ploy to try and raise the size of that priest's congregation, however, there are some that truly believe that is what God's teachings are . . . unfortunately[/COLOR]

[Winter]

Wow, this is one helluva thread.

Here is something I thought that was interesting. Do you guys know where the idea of hell originated?

First, lets bypass the obvious underworld domain that was ruled by the Goddess Hel of ancient lore, but move on to the Hebrew context.

In ancient times, 'hel' was the word used to describe the city dump. It was a terribly disgusting place in where rotting animals, and other rubbish were discarded. The landfills would gather so much rubbish, that the city had to burn it. Sometimes it would burn for days on end. It was quite a site to see. Darkened skies, the area became hot as all...hell, and the smell would be so toxic it would burn the eyes of the cityfolk.

Eventually, it was thought that when people were bad, they would be cast into these hels. And after years and years, eventually the concept of hell being fire, brimstone, and torture came about, from this place.

Funny thing is, Satan doesnt reside in hell. There is garbled text within the most recent of bibles that states that he was condemned to suffer in it, which isnt entirely true. He was condemned to confinement for 1000 years, but after that, was free to roam the heavens and the earth. Which is why in certain books within the most current bible, he is known to confront the angels and g*d quite often.

And the misconceptions on the dark lord are so unjustified. Many believe the concept of Satan being ugly, corrupted by evil, and carrying a pitchfork and ruling in hell, when in the mythical reality *oxymoron, I know* he is the most beautiful of all the angels, and was not corrupted by evil. He is merely rebellious, and refused to bow down to the child of man, Jesus Christ. After all, why should a blessed angel bow down to a mere 2000 year old child?

If anything, Satan is the real messaiah for humanity. He rebelled against the most oppressive force in the universe, the Christian G*d. He defied, and refused to leach onto an outside source for salvation. He discovered the concept that g*dlyness resides in the individual, and neednt be worshipped by an oppressive overlord.

Of course, you should know that I'm a devote Satanist, and Luciferian, so maybe I'm a little biased.

And another misconception; Satan is NOT Lucifer. Lucifer is the angel of light, and Satan is the most beautiful angel. The problem with G*d and Lucifer, is G*d was foolish, and made Lucifer as powerful as himself. Because of this power of light possessed by Lucifer, G*d banished him, to make sure he didnt question G*d's authority.

Lucifer had no intention of taking G*d's throne; it is worthless to him. However, the funny thing is, in ancient texts, its still known that Lucifer retained much of his power over Gabriel, Micheal, and the other arch angels. If Lucifer wanted to, he very well could gather the defiant angels and destroy G*d in his heaven. That would be a loverly sight...

[Semjaza]

Why in the world are you typing god as G*d? That's one of the weirdest things I've ever seen, regardless of your beliefs lol

In any case, I've tried to explain that Lucifer and Satan aren't the same beings... but you don't really get anywhere with it because they're considered one in the same at this point due to mistranslations. Of course, if you want to talk about their actual origins and what exactly they were, there's too much contradicting material to say one story is more true than another.

[Winter]

[QUOTE=Semjaza Azazel]Why in the world are you typing god as G*d? That's one of the weirdest things I've ever seen, regardless of your beliefs lol

[/QUOTE]

Weird, not weird, does it really matter? You understand what I'm talking about, anyway.

[Boo]

[QUOTE=Radaghast][SIZE=1][COLOR=DarkOrange][FONT=Garamond]Is the goal of Hinduism enlightenment? I thought that was only Buddhism. Do we have any Hindu members that could confirm?

Though I don't think your' karma has any direct effect of reaching enlightenment other than how you are reincarnated. Meditation is how you reach enlightenment. As well as seeing the illusion that the world is, you see how pointless the suffering that we cause is when you reach enlightenment.

I thought there was something similar when I watched the Matrix movies between the flick and Buddhism. [/FONT] [/COLOR] [/SIZE][/QUOTE]

[color=gray][size=1]Well I didnt remember it too well how they called it in hinduisme. But it was something like elightment. Where you see the truth or something lol.

My teacher called Karma a list. A list of bad things and good things.
Later he explaint it with a glass which he had filled up with pieces of paper.
But now I type this, I come to think that it was somewhat like the Buddhisme, to reach enlightment. When you reached the point where you have identified all your bad points and weaknesses... Oh well...

And to Winter. That what you say, ofcourse, is your point of view.
Satan was not free to roam the earth or anything. If he was, why would (ex.) Jesus do the trouble to save a man who was outcasted because he was controlled by demons, at all? He wouldnt have let them roam the earth if he after that, does all the trouble to save humanity from satan after that would he?
He confronted god near heaven when Jesus went away from the Earth.
And the part of what Satan looks like depends on the person. People just say he's carrying a pitchfork and looks ugly to show how evil he is.
You might think hes not, a lot of people think he is.
And by the way. You arent a messiah when you rebel against a great force.
Its the same mistake that people make when they are praising Che (the cuba rebel). Just because he is a rebel doesnt make him a good person. He had slaughtered many of people, but still hes a freedom fighter *cough*.

In short, its a matter of opinion ^_^;;

[/color][/size]

[Winter]

[QUOTE=Boo][color=gray][size=1]

And to Winter. That what you say, ofcourse, is your point of view.
Satan was not free to roam the earth or anything. If he was, why would (ex.) Jesus do the trouble to save a man who was outcasted because he was controlled by demons, at all? He wouldnt have let them roam the earth if he after that, does all the trouble to save humanity from satan after that would he?
He confronted god near heaven when Jesus went away from the Earth.
And the part of what Satan looks like depends on the person. People just say he's carrying a pitchfork and looks ugly to show how evil he is.
You might think hes not, a lot of people think he is.
And by the way. You arent a messiah when you rebel against a great force.
Its the same mistake that people make when they are praising Che (the cuba rebel). Just because he is a rebel doesnt make him a good person. He had slaughtered many of people, but still hes a freedom fighter *cough*.

In short, its a matter of opinion ^_^;;

[/color][/size][/QUOTE]

Of course its a matter of opinion. What else could it be? Is it possible for me to provide 'facts'? Of course not.

I dont see Satan as a 'good person', but a symbol of defiance. Defiance against the ultimate oppressor, G*d. Thats how I see it, and I identify with it.

Although, I can, and evidently I will have to quote some things to let you know that it is identified by Christianity of many denominations that Satan roams the earth tempting people.

And to me, Satan [I]is[/I] a messiah. Because to me, he has 'saved' me from the constraints of Christianity. The doctrines, specifically within the texts of Jehovahs Witnesses, dictates that my pursuit of knowledge is to be shunned, that to have faith in G*d and denounce the pursuit of personal achievement intellectually is wrong. The pursuit of what ever possible truth that can exist is considered blasphemous; unless its ordained within the specific churches, or alleged word of the 'supreme being'. The cloak of ignorance is Christianity's greatest weapon, and I refuse to be confined by it.

Now mind you, I dont worship Satan. I dont even believe Satan is real. But the concept is symbolic for me. But I find it terribly troubling that certain faiths can preach ignorance to other possibilities as the key to everlasting life, salvation, and eternal happiness.

How can someone, especially a concept of mankinds imagination, tell others that the path they are using to personal enlightenment is wrong? Its not fair, and to me, Satan symbolizes rebelling against that.

Its foolish, the corellation you made that other freedom fighters are in the same boat as Satan. You didnt even understand my view completely, before you jumped to that unfair assumption. But no offense taken.

[Baron Samedi]

[size=1][color=darkred][quote name='Winter']Of course, you should know that I'm a devote Satanist, and Luciferian, so maybe I'm a little biased.[/quote]

[quote name='Winter']Now mind you, I dont worship Satan. I dont even believe Satan is real. [/quote]

Out of curiosity, which is it?[/size][/color]

[Guest ScirosDarkblade]

In regards to the above post, being "satanist" does not imply that you "worship" satan, similar to people saying they're "christian" doesn't mean the "worship" jesus christ. It's not quite the same thing because apparently you can be "satanist" and see satan as only some sort of ideal (or whatever) and not an [i]actual[/i] entity. More than anything, it just means that through some abstract idea (in this case the biblical satan) someone found a particular code of values to stick by. There's nothing inherently wrong with this, although I'd question the depth of the "devotion to satan," if there is any at all, because of course the devil is credited with a bit more mischief than just "rebelling against the social construct."

[Maikeru]

I'm Lutheran, which I have a very faint idea of what it is. Can someone explain it to me?