Otakuboards Religious Thread

[Winter]

[quote name='ScirosDarkblade]In regards to the above post, being "satanist" does not imply that you "worship" satan, similar to people saying they're "christian" doesn't mean the "worship" jesus christ. It's not quite the same thing because apparently you can be "satanist" and see satan as only some sort of ideal (or whatever) and not an [i]actual[/i'] entity. More than anything, it just means that through some abstract idea (in this case the biblical satan) someone found a particular code of values to stick by. There's nothing inherently wrong with this, although I'd question the depth of the "devotion to satan," if there is any at all, because of course the devil is credited with a bit more mischief than just "rebelling against the social construct."[/quote]

Nice answer. Now here is the real answer.

I go by the LeVey system of Satanism. Specifically, the 1st Church of Satan.

Within the organization there are various types of believers. There are those who practice dark arts, and literally hold Satan as their deity, and leader, there are those who identify with the lore, and then there are those who utilize the concepts of the lore within their everyday lives.

I believe in no supreme beings, and the concept of Satan is what I identify with.

Question my devotion all you like, I am completely devoted to the concept. Just as any Christian is devoted to the concept of their supreme being.

As for my Luciferian ideals, I identify with the lore of the angel of light. In that, this angel not only rivals the might and light of the supreme being itself, but in that, the supreme being of the bible actually grows insecure, and fearful of his own creation.

To me, that symbolizes the idea that no being is without rival, no creature without challenger, no entity, fiction or not, without equal.

Considering that, its an empowering idea. An idea I like to believe in.

[I]Hail Satan[/I]

[Guest ScirosDarkblade]

I don't know if you've answered this already Winter, but being satanist does that mean that you also believe in the Christian god? I'm asking because you attribute a lot of biblical (or otherwise) details to satan, but they come with some extra baggage, if you ask me. If you don't believe in "God," as you do not believe in "Satan," then my question is "why bother?" Why even consider yourself part of some pseudo-religious organization when all you really need is your personal value code to get you through the day? (It would seem I can ask a Christian the same question, and the answer I think I'd get is that Christ is the teacher of the values, and therefore without him the sense of the values would be lost, or something along those lines.) Is that how you feel as well? That "satan" guides you? Because isn't the whole point that you guide yourself?

(I don't mean to sound like I'm making assumptions. If you answer one question many others might not be legitimate anymore)

[gumby]

[font=Arial][color=darkred]I myself am a non practicing Catholic which basically means I don't go to church or pray or any of that other stuff. I also think to belive you are an athiest you have to admit that there is some kind of god/ being or other wise people are just kidding themselves.[/color][/font]

[SaiyanPrincessX]

I'm a Christian. I don't belong in any specific category within in yet though. My dad leans more towards Christian/Baptist, my mom likes to say shes a Christian under no specific category. I still haven't found which I fit best in. I wasn't really into religion untill recently, I just never payed much attention to it. I seem to be into it alot nowadays. The movie made a big impression on me, whether that sounds corny or not, its the truth.

[DeadSeraphim]

[quote name='gumby][font=Arial][color=darkred]I myself am a non practicing Catholic which basically means I don't go to church or pray or any of that other stuff. I also think to belive you are an athiest you have to admit that there is some kind of god/ being or other wise people are just kidding themselves.[/color'][/font][/quote]
[COLOR=Indigo][SIZE=1][FONT=Arial Narrow]Err... no. Aethiests do no have to believe in any God of any kind. They believe of the existence of no God. Mayhap we are looking at it from different perspectives, but Aethiests usually are resolute in their opinion that their is no God, and that to admit that there is one is err... opposite? Wires crossed man.[/FONT][/SIZE][/COLOR]

[Godelsensei]

[COLOR=Gray][FONT=Courier New]Huh? Gumby, I think you are confused as to what an atheist is.

So many religious people seem to approach atheism as a different kind of belief. I find this infinately irritating (aliteration! : D).

Plain and simple, atheism is just a lack of belief in any form of devinity.[/FONT][/COLOR]

[Winter]

[QUOTE=ScirosDarkblade]I don't know if you've answered this already Winter, but being satanist does that mean that you also believe in the Christian god? I'm asking because you attribute a lot of biblical (or otherwise) details to satan, but they come with some extra baggage, if you ask me. If you don't believe in "God," as you do not believe in "Satan," then my question is "why bother?" Why even consider yourself part of some pseudo-religious organization when all you really need is your personal value code to get you through the day? (It would seem I can ask a Christian the same question, and the answer I think I'd get is that Christ is the teacher of the values, and therefore without him the sense of the values would be lost, or something along those lines.) Is that how you feel as well? That "satan" guides you? Because isn't the whole point that you guide yourself?

(I don't mean to sound like I'm making assumptions. If you answer one question many others might not be legitimate anymore)[/QUOTE]

Its a very valid question, and I dont mind you asking.

Now, I dont believe in G*d as real, nor do I believe in Satan. Its a philosophy with concepts that I hold true.

To understand my acceptance of the dark lord, you must understand what drove me away from Christianity.

Mostly, my disdain for it stems from Jehovahs Witnesses.

It is preached that their G*d is ultimate, mighty, powerful, unrelenting, vengeful, oppressive, insecure, and intolerent being. A jealous G*d, and to me, an unforgiving G*d.

For me, Satanism is the exact polarity of that. The exact defiance of this oppression. I identify with Satan, because for me, it symbolizes enlightenment inspite of tyranny. I dont like how its preached that intellectuals will be shunned, that gaining awakening and enlightenment through means other than the supreme and Jesus Christ is the only way for salvation. Its narrow, and naturally I seek to defy that; Satan is the perfect outlet for that goal.

And again, no I dont belive in Satan as a tangible object. Its a symbolic reference to defiance of oppression in all its forms. And that doesnt restrict itself just to the ignorance that is preached to be 'the way' in Christian faiths. It goes in to all aspects of life.

So in answer to your question, no I do not believe in the supreme beings or dark beings as literal aspects of metaphysical worlds. I identify with them in the extent of philosophical concepts.

Also, I have a hatred, flat out hatred, for Jesus Christ because of what it is also preached in most denominations of Christianity. Timothy McVeigh is the prime example of why I hate it.

He was a terrible man, who killed innocents as a statement. He was brought to justice, but in his last moments on earth he said something. He said he had found Jesus Christ. That is why he was confident he wouldnt suffer eternal damnation.

And thats all it takes in most denominations. A faith, and acceptance of the son of man, in order to gain everlasting love, life, and happiness. Thats all it takes. You dont have to be a good person. You dont have to show love. You dont have to be kind. All you have to do is accept Jesus.

I see that as terribly...well, wrong.

Mind you, Jesus did preach kindness, but if you understand the "truth" of it, all you have to really do is merely accept it. You dont have to be nice, kind, loving, good person. Just accept it, and run amok in this life without consequence. I strongly disagree with that idea, and thats another piece of coal in the fires of my anti-christian furnace.

[Guest ScirosDarkblade]

Heh. Well I guess that works. But I had follow-up questions to that, and you've still to answer those.

Another question: if your point of view shared by most "satanists"? What's the doctrine of the majority? I'm just intrigued.

[Winter]

[QUOTE=ScirosDarkblade]Heh. Well I guess that works. But I had follow-up questions to that, and you've still to answer those.

Another question: if your point of view shared by most "satanists"? What's the doctrine of the majority? I'm just intrigued.[/QUOTE]

Follow up questions? Meh, sorry, I get into a rant and just go off.

Actually, most Satanists *sans the quotations, dont know why you included those* do not follow the ideals of it that I do.

The majority of Satanists tend to be children looking to rebel against their parents, or watch too much Buffy and look to Satan for black magick or whatever.

Then there are the people who will literally bow down and worship the dark lord.

Then there are the people who strictly follow the codes of the black bibles, and act out the black mass.

However, thankfully there are enough Satanists who can look beyond any bourgeious trinkets of the philosophy, and stick to what made the movement in the first place.

Now to answer some of your other questions, I'm unusually happy to oblige.

You asked why do I stick to some 'psuedo-religious' yadda yadda. Well I do believe I answered that one. The doctrines so easily mirror the types I was developing myself during my budding years as a Satanist, that I felt it right to adopt what was taught as my own.

As for my own values; I do have them. Thats why I dont believe Satan is a real deity worthy of worship, and why I do not believe in the black arts that are taught by so many other Satanic sects. Its also why I dont consider sacrifice a viable aspect of the philosophy.

I also think I answered you question, however covertly, regarding Satan guiding me.

Satan doesnt guide me as the Christ guides his flock. I'll say this one more time, I do not believe Satan is real.

The [I]ideal[/I] of an angel of G*d being defiant and strong enough in the self to willingly rebel against the ultimate, is the ideal that I hold closest most.

In that, I use my own innate wisdom, experience, and intelligence to guide me and get me through each day. Satanism has more or less, coaxed me into realizing that. It has helped me strive to reach the 'Christhood' within myself.

In short, I am my own guide to that metaphorical building of enlightenment. Satanism is the car I'm using to get there.

[Guest ScirosDarkblade]

Cool. Thanks for the replies, Winter. The only thing I have left to add is that to me it seems it's possible to get to where you want to go but without taking the Satanism road. Now, don't get me wrong, I'm not saying that because Satan is evil and what not (especially since you don't hold that belief yourself), but I think that it makes it seem that the path you chose is almost just to spite Christians. The reason I'm saying this is pretty much all of the ideals you hold dear are ones we share (the privileging of knowledge and self-enlightenment, etc.). But I didn't follow nor did I need Satanism to reach where I stand. And I don' t know how much YOU truly need it either. You seem to privilege reason and self-reliance, but do it by studying an idea born of fear, ignorance, and unreason. Perhaps you simply don't want to give yourself enough credit. Maybe it's to build self-confidence, like a student who knows more than the teacher but takes the class nevertheless. It's a fine line you walk, my friend, and you just have to be careful not to step onto the wrong side, because that's when logic no longer holds all the cards.

[Winter]

[quote name='ScirosDarkblade']Cool. Thanks for the replies, Winter. The only thing I have left to add is that to me it seems it's possible to get to where you want to go but without taking the Satanism road. Now, don't get me wrong, I'm not saying that because Satan is evil and what not (especially since you don't hold that belief yourself), but I think that it makes it seem that the path you chose is almost just to spite Christians. The reason I'm saying this is pretty much all of the ideals you hold dear are ones we share (the privileging of knowledge and self-enlightenment, etc.). But I didn't follow nor did I need Satanism to reach where I stand. And I don' t know how much YOU truly need it either. You seem to privilege reason and self-reliance, but do it by studying an idea born of fear, ignorance, and unreason. Perhaps you simply don't want to give yourself enough credit. Maybe it's to build self-confidence, like a student who knows more than the teacher but takes the class nevertheless. It's a fine line you walk, my friend, and you just have to be careful not to step onto the wrong side, because that's when logic no longer holds all the cards.[/quote]

Insightful. You've gained my respect.

I will note what you've said regarding my beliefs, but unfortunately either you dont understand the deepness of my spirituality, or I havent explained enough. Regardless, I appreciate what you've said.

I will say, I was inspired into diving into the Satanic path partially because of my music. I'm a huge fan of Children of Bodom, Dimmu Borgir, Immortal, Gorgoroth, and such bands, and when I was younger I noticed they all seemed to promote Satan. I decided to see what all the fuss was about, and found myself agreeing with a lot of what I discovered.

I'm sure that those bands had [I]something[/I] to do with the darkness I've brought into my life, lol.